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Topic: [ANN] SpreadCoin | True Decentralization (No Pools) | Testing New Masternodes - page 16. (Read 810025 times)

legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1002
Decentralize Everything
So, will masternode payments still depend on a score, because if so it will defeat the purpose of them being dynamic.

I must admit that was something I didn't care for with the original SPR masternode testing.  I didn't understand the benefits of the highest scoring masternodes getting paid.  Am I missing a really obvious benefit?  Surely the network can only be fair if all masternodes get paid roughly the same amount over a period of time?

Why define a max number of masternodes?  Surely the ROI, coin supply and value of SPR will define this organically?  People won't run masternodes at a loss for long...

I also remain to be convinced of the dynamic masternode model other than its brilliant ease of setup.  Once again...am I missing a fundamental advantage?

The score was designed to sort the men from the boys.

Servicenode owners will try to load their nodes with as little SPR as possable (so to have move nodes/profit).
This create's instability in the network, as people are getting kicked off the list because of the small amount in the node.

So to create some stability, long term nodes that are well funded get a higher rating and probably more SPR block rewards.

That's my understanding anyway
But then it would remove the competition if they were paid more, and hence defeating the purpose of a limit.

Their not paid more because that's in the code. There paid more because they're more consistent, handle more transactions and respond 100% of the time.

Also the larger your servicenode balance is, the larger transactions your node can handle. And we need the ability to handle large transactions so we need large wallets.

Am i right in saying Dash nodes can only handle 1000 dash at a time?


Ok, so in this hypothesis the people with the bigger SPR wallets with VPS hosted masternodes would receive more payments than somebody with one masternode hosted on their macbook.  Doesn't seem right somehow.  Anyway...new ANN today.  Plenty of time to thrash out semantics and test various hypotheses!
legendary
Activity: 1526
Merit: 1001
Crypto since 2014
So, will masternode payments still depend on a score, because if so it will defeat the purpose of them being dynamic.

I must admit that was something I didn't care for with the original SPR masternode testing.  I didn't understand the benefits of the highest scoring masternodes getting paid.  Am I missing a really obvious benefit?  Surely the network can only be fair if all masternodes get paid roughly the same amount over a period of time?

Why define a max number of masternodes?  Surely the ROI, coin supply and value of SPR will define this organically?  People won't run masternodes at a loss for long...

I also remain to be convinced of the dynamic masternode model other than its brilliant ease of setup.  Once again...am I missing a fundamental advantage?

The score was designed to sort the men from the boys.

Servicenode owners will try to load their nodes with as little SPR as possable (so to have move nodes/profit).
This create's instability in the network, as people are getting kicked off the list because of the small amount in the node.

So to create some stability, long term nodes that are well funded get a higher rating and probably more SPR block rewards.

That's my understanding anyway
But then it would remove the competition if they were paid more, and hence defeating the purpose of a limit.

Their not paid more because that's in the code. There paid more because they're more consistent, handle more transactions and respond 100% of the time.

Also the larger your servicenode balance is, the larger transactions your node can handle. And we need the ability to handle large transactions so we need large wallets.

Am i right in saying Dash nodes can only handle 1000 dash at a time?

No, you are wrong. It doesn't mix any dash with its own, the dash always stays in the masternode so it makes sense.
So if 1 Dash masternodes were possible, they would be able to handle 20 999 999 Dash. Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1000
So, will masternode payments still depend on a score, because if so it will defeat the purpose of them being dynamic.

I must admit that was something I didn't care for with the original SPR masternode testing.  I didn't understand the benefits of the highest scoring masternodes getting paid.  Am I missing a really obvious benefit?  Surely the network can only be fair if all masternodes get paid roughly the same amount over a period of time?

Why define a max number of masternodes?  Surely the ROI, coin supply and value of SPR will define this organically?  People won't run masternodes at a loss for long...

I also remain to be convinced of the dynamic masternode model other than its brilliant ease of setup.  Once again...am I missing a fundamental advantage?

The score was designed to sort the men from the boys.

Servicenode owners will try to load their nodes with as little SPR as possable (so to have move nodes/profit).
This create's instability in the network, as people are getting kicked off the list because of the small amount in the node.

So to create some stability, long term nodes that are well funded get a higher rating and probably more SPR block rewards.

That's my understanding anyway
But then it would remove the competition if they were paid more, and hence defeating the purpose of a limit.

Edit: And what do you mean instability? How will it be unstable?

Their not paid more because that's in the code. There paid more because they're more consistent, handle more transactions and respond 100% of the time.

Also the larger your servicenode balance is, the larger transactions your node can handle. And we need the ability to handle large transactions so we need large wallets.

Am i right in saying Dash nodes can only handle 1000 dash at a time?

Edit: If everyone put a small amount of SPR into their SN wallets, the network would be kicking and re installing new nodes allllll the time.
If we have large wallets that dont get kicked, we always have a solid node to rely on.

I'm struggling to even understand myself, so don't think its you Tongue
legendary
Activity: 1526
Merit: 1001
Crypto since 2014
I wish there was a way to limit each user with 1 masternode, that would be perfect.
If there was a way (probably only possible with a centralised coin) I'm sure it would be done.
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
Infected Mushroom
I wish there was a way to limit each user with 1 masternode, that would be perfect.
legendary
Activity: 1526
Merit: 1001
Crypto since 2014
So, will masternode payments still depend on a score, because if so it will defeat the purpose of them being dynamic.

I must admit that was something I didn't care for with the original SPR masternode testing.  I didn't understand the benefits of the highest scoring masternodes getting paid.  Am I missing a really obvious benefit?  Surely the network can only be fair if all masternodes get paid roughly the same amount over a period of time?

Why define a max number of masternodes?  Surely the ROI, coin supply and value of SPR will define this organically?  People won't run masternodes at a loss for long...

I also remain to be convinced of the dynamic masternode model other than its brilliant ease of setup.  Once again...am I missing a fundamental advantage?

The score was designed to sort the men from the boys.

Servicenode owners will try to load their nodes with as little SPR as possable (so to have more nodes/profit).
This create's instability in the network, as people are getting kicked off the list because of the small amount in the node.

So to create some stability, long term nodes that are well funded get a higher rating and probably more SPR block rewards.

That's my understanding anyway
But then it would remove the competition if they were paid more, and hence defeating the purpose of a limit.

Edit: And what do you mean instability? How will it be unstable?
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1000
So, will masternode payments still depend on a score, because if so it will defeat the purpose of them being dynamic.

I must admit that was something I didn't care for with the original SPR masternode testing.  I didn't understand the benefits of the highest scoring masternodes getting paid.  Am I missing a really obvious benefit?  Surely the network can only be fair if all masternodes get paid roughly the same amount over a period of time?

Why define a max number of masternodes?  Surely the ROI, coin supply and value of SPR will define this organically?  People won't run masternodes at a loss for long...

I also remain to be convinced of the dynamic masternode model other than its brilliant ease of setup.  Once again...am I missing a fundamental advantage?

The score was designed to sort the men from the boys.

Servicenode owners will try to load their nodes with as little SPR as possable (so to have move nodes/profit).
This create's instability in the network, as people are getting kicked off the list because of the small amount in the node.

So to create some stability, long term nodes that are well funded get a higher rating and probably more SPR block rewards.

That's my understanding anyway
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1002
Decentralize Everything
You're right but you can't blame me for being excited  Grin
legendary
Activity: 2814
Merit: 1091
--- ChainWorks Industries ---
Surely the network can only be fair if all masternodes get paid roughly the same amount over a period of time?

If you're not posing a merely rhetorical question, what's the definition of “fair” in this instance?

Cheers

Graham


It wasn't intended as rhetorical.  I guess my roots are deeply set in DRK where the idea was that the entry point for a masternode was fixed and that over a given period of time, all masternodes would receive a similar return on investment. 

In this context, I am using fair to refer to the fact that in order to run a service node, it will cost the owner money to run it.  If the service node owner is not guaranteed roughly the same income as other service node owners is there a chance this will mean that some service nodes will generate less income for doing the same amount of work at the same expense therefore causing an "unfair" situation?
I guess the advantage is that it will drive the price of Spreadcoin up if it succeeds.

Nope, I'm not sure if I get that either.  I think I'm probably just half (at best) informed and trying to guess at how the initial proposals will look and I'm missing something fundamental.  I'm sure all will become clear.


i think that the fact that we dont even know what to call 'them' shows the state of affairs that spreadcoin is in currently ... masternodes - spreadnodes - servicesnodes ...

patience is the key here ... revelations such as what you are asking is simplified by the fact that 'we' as a collective really dont actually KNOW yet ...

its an 'ideafest' at best ... for now ...

#crysx
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1002
Decentralize Everything
Surely the network can only be fair if all masternodes get paid roughly the same amount over a period of time?

If you're not posing a merely rhetorical question, what's the definition of “fair” in this instance?

Cheers

Graham


It wasn't intended as rhetorical.  I guess my roots are deeply set in DRK where the idea was that the entry point for a masternode was fixed and that over a given period of time, all masternodes would receive a similar return on investment. 

In this context, I am using fair to refer to the fact that in order to run a service node, it will cost the owner money to run it.  If the service node owner is not guaranteed roughly the same income as other service node owners is there a chance this will mean that some service nodes will generate less income for doing the same amount of work at the same expense therefore causing an "unfair" situation?
I guess the advantage is that it will drive the price of Spreadcoin up if it succeeds.

Nope, I'm not sure if I get that either.  I think I'm probably just half (at best) informed and trying to guess at how the initial proposals will look and I'm missing something fundamental.  I'm sure all will become clear.
legendary
Activity: 1526
Merit: 1001
Crypto since 2014
Surely the network can only be fair if all masternodes get paid roughly the same amount over a period of time?

If you're not posing a merely rhetorical question, what's the definition of “fair” in this instance?

Cheers

Graham


It wasn't intended as rhetorical.  I guess my roots are deeply set in DRK where the idea was that the entry point for a masternode was fixed and that over a given period of time, all masternodes would receive a similar return on investment. 

In this context, I am using fair to refer to the fact that in order to run a service node, it will cost the owner money to run it.  If the service node owner is not guaranteed roughly the same income as other service node owners is there a chance this will mean that some service nodes will generate less income for doing the same amount of work at the same expense therefore causing an "unfair" situation?
I guess the advantage is that it will drive the price of Spreadcoin up if it succeeds.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1002
Decentralize Everything
Surely the network can only be fair if all masternodes get paid roughly the same amount over a period of time?

If you're not posing a merely rhetorical question, what's the definition of “fair” in this instance?

Cheers

Graham


It wasn't intended as rhetorical.  I guess my roots are deeply set in DRK where the idea was that the entry point for a masternode was fixed and that over a given period of time, all masternodes would receive a similar return on investment. 

In this context, I am using fair to refer to the fact that in order to run a service node, it will cost the owner money to run it.  If the service node owner is not guaranteed roughly the same income as other service node owners is there a chance this will mean that some service nodes will generate less income for doing the same amount of work at the same expense therefore causing an "unfair" situation?
legendary
Activity: 2254
Merit: 1278
Surely the network can only be fair if all masternodes get paid roughly the same amount over a period of time?

If you're not posing a merely rhetorical question, what's the definition of “fair” in this instance?

Cheers

Graham
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1002
Decentralize Everything
So, will masternode payments still depend on a score, because if so it will defeat the purpose of them being dynamic.

I must admit that was something I didn't care for with the original SPR masternode testing.  I didn't understand the benefits of the highest scoring masternodes getting paid.  Am I missing a really obvious benefit?  Surely the network can only be fair if all masternodes get paid roughly the same amount over a period of time?

Why define a max number of masternodes?  Surely the ROI, coin supply and value of SPR will define this organically?  People won't run masternodes at a loss for long...

I also remain to be convinced of the dynamic masternode model other than its brilliant ease of setup.  Once again...am I missing a fundamental advantage?
legendary
Activity: 1526
Merit: 1001
Crypto since 2014
So, will masternode payments still depend on a score, because if so it will defeat the purpose of them being dynamic.
legendary
Activity: 2814
Merit: 1091
--- ChainWorks Industries ---
I particularly like Max MN = (total coinsupply)/ 2880.

Because it will allow for only a very limited amount of MN at the moment: around 650... (this will help drive the price of SPR up, now that it is young)
and it will grow to a healthy 1800 when we are as old as darkcoin... (1 Year)
and it will grow to a perfect 5000 MNs when we are as old as bitcoin... (6 years)

And when we reach the 21 Million max coinsupply in a 100 years we will have reached the maximum possible amount of 7292 MNs.

calculations based on the distribution of spr ... that is a wise decision ...

we are in ... Wink ...

#crysx
full member
Activity: 171
Merit: 100
I particularly like Max MN = (total coinsupply)/ 2880.

Because it will allow for only a very limited amount of MN at the moment: around 650... (this will help drive the price of SPR up, now that it is young)
and it will grow to a healthy 1800 when we are as old as darkcoin... (1 Year)
and it will grow to a perfect 5000 MNs when we are as old as bitcoin... (6 years)

And when we reach the 21 Million max coinsupply in a 100 years we will have reached the maximum possible amount of 7292 MNs.
full member
Activity: 171
Merit: 100
This system of a max of 1440 spreadnodes may very well change by the time they go active, but I would still recommend a couple thousand spr just to be safe.

I want to implement a dynamic amount of max servicenodes that will slowly increase over time.

This is an idea I had 1 month ago (as a response to a discussion I had on spreadcointalk with MyFarm):
(Attention: the numbers mentioned are also 1 month old)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Mr. Spread only wanted to use a max of 1000 MNs.

1440 max MNs was based around an idea I had that this way every MN would on average receive 1 payment a day.

I believe that having twice that (2880) will not solve the problem you describe (the problem of "how will newcomers be able to afford a masternode later in time"),
but only postpone the problem so it will come back and bite us later.

I always advocated for a flexible amount of MNs.

A limit yes, but a flexible one, that increases slowly over time.
This way it gets to act like a limit (that creates competition thru scarcity, and enables price discovery), but it will also have the flexibility to adjust for a large growth of SPR price and what an MN will cost.

I advocate for tying the max amount of MNs to the coinsupply:

Max MN = (total coinsupply)/ 1000.

or maybe divide them even further.

Max MN = (total coinsupply)/ 1440.

or

Max MN = (total coinsupply)/ 2880.

So today (with 1.865 Million coins) this would mean 1865 possible MNs, or 1294, or 647 possible MNs. (total coinsupply divided by 1000, 1440 and 2880)

This is not a fix limit, but a moving target, so let's look how this will change over time:

In 6 Months it will probably be 5000 MNs (or 3472, or 1736 MNs)....

We follow Bitcoins increase in coinsupply curve more or less.

So in about 6 years, we will have 13.85 Million coins.
How many MNs should we have in 6 years?
Based on my three suggestions, it would be 13850, or 9618, or 4809 MNs.

And what does that mean for eternity?
We will have 21000, or 14584 or 7292 MNs.

hero member
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
@halofirebtc
+1 georgem

how many SPR would one want to run per spreadnode?
full member
Activity: 171
Merit: 100
Thanks George!  Can't think of anything right now personally...

Thanks for your patience...

BTW here's a sneak peak to how the website will look like:



The new ANN thread title will simply be:

[ANN] SpreadCoin | Decentralize Everything

If I have hastily shown a bit of annoyance with the speed of progression in the past, I'd like to offer my apologies.  This looks fantastic. sprtacular even. well done georgem!
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