Author

Topic: [ANN] SpreadCoin | True Decentralization (No Pools) | Testing New Masternodes - page 294. (Read 810099 times)

member
Activity: 60
Merit: 10
I have no VPS and can't participate in this game  Angry Angry
Is it possible to run a DM with my home PC ?

VPS only cost $5 a month...

Not a problem
what the requirement of VPS do I need? like CPU,mem,disc space,brandwidth,etc.
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1007
spreadcoin.info
It is f*&%#@g brilliant!

Or we are bat shit crazy? Only the implementation and time will tell  Tongue

I am not sure, man... lol I feel a little bit weird, not sure if crazy or just maniacally euphoric.  Grin
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1007
spreadcoin.info
Now let's assume I am an angry whale who doesn't like all the newcomers who enter the game and kick my servers down to a lower rank, and possibly out of the game.

The only thing such a whale can do, is invest more SPR in his servers, but to do so, he will have to sacrifice a few of his seats!  Grin

Suppose I have 1 Million SPR, and 1000 MN with 1000 SPR again. Very easy for newcomers to grab a seat, obviously.

Now, the moment I start securing my MNs by moving their SPR deposit up to say 10k, I will have to take those SPRs from somewhere, and since all my money is tied in my MNs, I will have to sacrifice some WEAK MNs, to create a few VERY STRONG MNs...

Maybe do a little bit of both... keep a few strong MNs nobody can touch... and play around with a few weak ones which constantly strive to stay alive but create a lot of profit if they succeed.

What DMs will basically do all the time is trying to STAY ALIVE, while having the best party of their life:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_izvAbhExY
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1000
And now let's make a more difficult example:

An early adopter whale is a little wiser and has 1 Million SPR in his control. (which already the distribution shows is impossible, but let's just continue.)

So what he does is, he creates 1000 MNs with 1000 SPR each. He's a darkcoiner gone Spreadcoin obviously.

Now if I am a newcomer, what can I do to enter the game?

Well, obviously I just have to invest 1001 or more SPR to take over one of the whales seats.

All other newcomers can do the same: they just have to invest just 1 SPR more than ANY SEAT they desire to overtake, and they can reduce any lower ranks by one!
Always kicking the last one out of the game, and reducing everyone below them 1 rank.

----

Probably the best way how you can setup your mutiple nodes will be to SPREAD them over multiple ranks.

Have one of them be very expensive, e.g. 5000 SPR, the next one 4500 SPR, then 4000 SPR, 3500 SPR, etc...
But still, all this will just server for you to have a little bit more security against losing your seat.
But you will NEVER be able to restrict newcomers from entering the market, and this is brilliant.



It is f*&%#@g brilliant!

Or we are bat shit crazy? Only the implementation and time will tell  Tongue
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1007
spreadcoin.info
And now let's make a more difficult example:

An early adopter whale is a little wiser and has 1 Million SPR in his control. (which already the distribution shows is impossible, but let's just continue.)

So what he does is, he creates 1000 MNs with 1000 SPR each. He's a darkcoiner gone Spreadcoin obviously.

Now if I am a newcomer, what can I do to enter the game?

Well, obviously I just have to invest 1001 or more SPR to take over one of the whales seats.

All other newcomers can do the same: they just have to invest just 1 SPR more than ANY SEAT they desire to overtake, and they can reduce any lower ranks by one!
Always kicking the last one out of the game, and reducing everyone below them 1 rank.

----

Probably the best way how you can setup your mutiple nodes will be to SPREAD them over multiple ranks.

Have one of them be very expensive, e.g. 5000 SPR, the next one 4500 SPR, then 4000 SPR, 3500 SPR, etc...
But still, all this will just help you to have a little bit more security against losing your seat, while maximizing your profit.
But you will NEVER be able to restrict newcomers from entering the market, and this is brilliant.

legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1000
Hmm... I think crouton might be correct - with variable pricing and a hard limit on MNs (let's say 1000), an early adopter whale could possibly monopolize the network. By investing in hundreds of MNs, she could rake in a bigger passive income than anyone else and re-invest those earnings into her MN network, making it increasingly harder for any latecomers to join in, especially if the price keeps rising (as we all expect it to!).

Let's just look at it more closely.

So I am an early adopter and also have many servers in my control (which costs a lot of money).

I think I am a wise guy and start 1000 MN since they only cost me 1 SPR each. (lets forget for a moment that you will probably pay 30-50k $ a month for all those servers, not including the manpower to manage them)

What happens in the next minute:

A guy who is a little wiser than me, (but still pretty stupid) starts grabbing MN seats away by investing 2 SPR each.

But already we see wiser guys who invest 500 or 1000 SPR per MN because they have something called "foresight". They know that when they invest too little they will have to do everything again in short time.

Slowly new people enter the game and the price increases.

I don't doubt that for the first few days and weeks everybody will want to setup a MN basically for free, because you just have to rent a server. There are enough MN seats free for thousands of servers.

But watch what happens after ALL SEATS ARE OCCUPIED!  Grin

This whole mechanism will work EXACTLY like you would expect it from mining: the first miners have it VERY EASY, they mine tons of blocks, until more and more people join the coin and start mining too... that's when the competition kicks in.

Let's make Masternodes play the game like everybody else has to.
Enough with those privileges and exceptionalism.


Id also like to add that unlike mining it cannot become centralized due to the sheer amount of SPR you would need to be in position of monopoly.
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1000
I have no VPS and can't participate in this game  Angry Angry
Is it possible to run a DM with my home PC ?

VPS only cost $5 a month...

Not a problem
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1007
spreadcoin.info
Hmm... I think crouton might be correct - with variable pricing and a hard limit on MNs (let's say 1000), an early adopter whale could possibly monopolize the network. By investing in hundreds of MNs, she could rake in a bigger passive income than anyone else and re-invest those earnings into her MN network, making it increasingly harder for any latecomers to join in, especially if the price keeps rising (as we all expect it to!).

Let's just look at it more closely.

So I am an early adopter and also have many servers in my control (which costs a lot of money).

I think I am a wise guy and start 1000 MN since they only cost me 1 SPR each. (lets forget for a moment that you will probably pay 30-50k $ a month for all those servers, not including the manpower to manage them)

What happens in the next minute:

A guy who is a little wiser than me, (but still pretty stupid) starts grabbing MN seats away by investing 2 SPR each.

But already we see wiser guys who invest 500 or 1000 SPR per MN because they have something called "foresight". They know that when they invest too little they will have to do everything again in short time.

Slowly new people enter the game and the price increases.

I don't doubt that for the first few days and weeks everybody will want to setup a MN basically for free, because you just have to rent a server. There are enough MN seats free for thousands of servers.

But watch what happens after ALL SEATS ARE OCCUPIED!  Grin

This whole mechanism will work EXACTLY like you would expect it from mining: the first miners have it VERY EASY, they mine tons of blocks, until more and more people join the coin and start mining too... that's when the competition kicks in.

Let's make Masternodes play the game like everybody else has to.
Enough with those privileges and exceptionalism.
member
Activity: 60
Merit: 10
I have no VPS and can't participate in this game  Angry Angry
Is it possible to run a DM with my home PC ?
sr. member
Activity: 422
Merit: 250
Meow
Hmm... I think crouton might be correct - with variable pricing and a hard limit on MNs (let's say 1000), an early adopter whale could possibly monopolize the network. By investing in hundreds of MNs, she could rake in a bigger passive income than anyone else and re-invest those earnings into her MN network, making it increasingly harder for any latecomers to join in, especially if the price keeps rising (as we all expect it to!).

One thing I like about DRK's MN network is that I don't have to worry about getting kicked out - as long as I have 1000 DRK I am guaranteed a masternode. Yeah, it's expensive, but it's worry free. Nor do  I think that makes me lazy or inactive; by maintaining my MNs, I am providing mixing services as well as reducing coin supply. Even if a whale has 10x more MNs than me, I still have a slice of the pie.

On the other hand, screw it - this is an interesting experiment, and we won't know the answer until we give it a shot. DRK already has a fixed price MN system; SPR's system could show us what the alternative would look like, for better or for worse! 
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1007
spreadcoin.info
I have an idea for a meme! A stock floor covered in mini SPR spermmen all screaming to buy their "share" in the MN list.

Brilliant. I thought about SPR spermmen and have a few related memes in preparation. I promise you will laugh your ass off.
I will use those spermmen (half a SPR logo, 1 logo = 2 sperm men) to show how they spread around, how they solo mine (and show how "perverted" it is when bitcoin pool mines), how they become masternodes, etc...
This is going to be so much fun.

Awesome! I can't wait! I will spread some love once you've posted

Currently and for the next few days I am working on darkcoin related cartoons for the upcoming 1 year anniversary of darkcoin.
When this is finished, I will concentrate more on spreadcoin cartoons for a while. ;-)
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1000
I have an idea for a meme! A stock floor covered in mini SPR spermmen all screaming to buy their "share" in the MN list.

Brilliant. I thought about SPR spermmen and have a few related memes in preparation. I promise you will laugh your ass off.
I will use those spermmen (half a SPR logo, 1 logo = 2 sperm men) to show how they spread around, how they solo mine (and show how "perverted" it is when bitcoin pool mines), how they become masternodes, etc...
This is going to be so much fun.

Awesome! I can't wait! I will spread some love once you've posted
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1007
spreadcoin.info
I have an idea for a meme! A stock floor covered in mini SPR spermmen all screaming to buy their "share" in the MN list.

Brilliant. I thought about SPR spermmen and have a few related memes in preparation. I promise you will laugh your ass off.
I will use those spermmen (half a SPR logo, 1 logo = 2 sperm men) to show how they spread around, how they solo mine (and show how "perverted" it is when bitcoin pool mines), how they become masternodes, etc...
This is going to be so much fun.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 500
FLY DONATION ADDRESS IN SIGNATURE
I'm loving this discussion on the DM's and the way that people are portraying for it to work Smiley I really am glad to see this type of work and ideas and concepts being put towards such a great project Smiley Kudos Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1000
This would lock down the list. No competition to enter the list once its full.
I don't like the sound of that.

It breads a whole new market place. Like miners jumping to different coins for profit (not the best example to give to yourself  Tongue), spr holders will denominate their holdings to the minimum amount they can before getting kicked of the list. And if someone doesn't want all that stress they can just fund their accounts higher, say 1000 and be comfortable in the knowledge your masternode will be live for at least 2 hours  Tongue .

It also sets a "fair" market price for entry into the market, weather you like it or not its a free market(with 1 rule(max amount MN preset,thats it.)).

Will big money enter the market and buy up lots of spr? I hope so! I don't worry about a small group buying alot of coins  as i don't think its possible to monopolize the network (going with the figures i presented).

Exactly, it's so easy to spot a bad idea:

Does it allow for competition? Good idea.
Does it restrict competition? Bad idea.

Does it create decentralization? Good idea.
Does it create incentives for centralization? Bad idea.

We need market forces, not people who decide for us. Let market forces decide what is best for all of us. That's the spirit of the free market. Anarchistic but beneficial for everybody EXCEPT the central scrutinizers who want to rule over everybody else.  Grin


I have an idea for a meme! A stock floor covered in mini SPR spermmen all screaming to buy their "share" in the MN list.
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1007
spreadcoin.info
There's no pools that's a good think.

But if you don't have a GPU Farm you can't mine it either...

So what's the deal about being decentralization if you don't support who has no money to invest in a GPU Farm?

Buy just 1 GPU and let it mine when your PC is on. Have 1000s of people do that.

Have Mr.Spread's Brain find solutions to reduce CPU/GPU hashrate SPREAD.
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1007
spreadcoin.info
This would lock down the list. No competition to enter the list once its full.
I don't like the sound of that.

It breads a whole new market place. Like miners jumping to different coins for profit (not the best example to give to yourself  Tongue), spr holders will denominate their holdings to the minimum amount they can before getting kicked of the list. And if someone doesn't want all that stress they can just fund their accounts higher, say 1000 and be comfortable in the knowledge your masternode will be live for at least 2 hours  Tongue .

It also sets a "fair" market price for entry into the market, weather you like it or not its a free market(with 1 rule(max amount MN preset,thats it.)).

Will big money enter the market and buy up lots of spr? I hope so! I don't worry about a small group buying alot of coins  as i don't think its possible to monopolize the network (going with the figures i presented).

Exactly, it's so easy to spot a bad idea:

Does it allow for competition? Good idea.
Does it restrict competition? Bad idea.

Does it create decentralization? Good idea.
Does it create incentives for centralization? Bad idea.

We need market forces, not people who decide for us. Let market forces decide what is best for all of us. That's the spirit of the free market. Anarchistic but beneficial for everybody EXCEPT the central scrutinizers who want to rule over everybody else.  Grin
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1007
spreadcoin.info
Again though, this board is trying to predict what happens in what will likely be a chaotic environment to start with, and IMO the only way of knowing if this is a better idea than DRK's static mn's is to try this out live.

We will soon be testing this, and if - as I predict - a MN requirement starts at 1 SPR, we don't even need to make the extensive tests on the testnet alone (where only a few people participate).
We can direcly go live (after preliminary tests on the testnet) because what is there to lose if you can run a MN with such a ridiculously low amount of 1 SPR?
It's not like we will have 1000 Masternodes setup in 1 week.... or ARE WE?Huh Since they are so cheap? Holy Spreadonia!

The people themselves will decide how secure they think the development version now is, and how much SPR they want to have exposed.

Another thing that SPR could do completely different than DRK.

I could be wrong though, it makes sense to first test everything in a testnet, but that's the thing: you never get a real life situation out of a testnet, so it never is 100% reliable for debugging... darkcoin has shown this many many times)

sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
There's no pools that's a good think.

But if you don't have a GPU Farm you can't mine it either...

So what's the deal about being decentralization if you don't support who has no money to invest in a GPU Farm?
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1000
Wait wait, your saying dynamic is for the rich but static is not?

Imagine this

Darkcoins MarketCap = $9,000,000,000. The cost of a DRk MN at this marketcap? around $340,000... Hey, poor people see you can just set a DRK MN up with your $340,000.

But you say SPR's method "favers the rich".

Edit: By the way, I'm pulling the dollar figures out my backside, but are not far off.
Yes it favours the rich, because my DRK MNs can't be bought out from underneath me.

With dynamic pricing my SPR MNs could be, repeatedly, by anyone with a few SPR more than me, so I may not even bother to begin with.

At least with DRK you can pool together with others and own a MN share. Nobody is going to go to the trouble though with SPR if it can be taken away by the next passing whale with deeper pockets than you and your partners.

Again i understand that you can be "taken out", but this will only happen to the opportunist's who seek as many MN's as they can with there current holdings.

So at the start someone will be able to make a masternode with 1spr, but someone can knock him off by having 2spr. Is that bad, no.

What about someone with 500spr in a MN? Well to be kicked from the network (at 3000 total slots in the list) there would need to be around 1.5million spr alocated to MN's.

To have 51% of the MN's you would need around 750,000 spr. Say 7 people had 51% of the coin supply between them (100,000spr each) and created MN's with those coins, its still not a monopoly.

7 heavily financially invested individuals, yes please.

So why not call it a 500 SPR requirement and a 3000 MN cap and leave it at that? What advantage does dynamic pricing bring?

This would lock down the list. No competition to enter the list once its full.
I don't like the sound of that.

It breads a whole new market place. Like miners jumping to different coins for profit (not the best example to give to yourself  Tongue), spr holders will denominate their holdings to the minimum amount they can before getting kicked of the list. And if someone doesn't want all that stress they can just fund their accounts higher, say 1000 and be comfortable in the knowledge your masternode will be live for at least 2 hours  Tongue .

It also sets a "fair" market price for entry into the market, weather you like it or not its a free market(with 1 rule(max amount MN preset,thats it.)).

Will big money enter the market and buy up lots of spr? I hope so! I don't worry about a small group buying alot of coins  as i don't think its possible to monopolize the network (going with the figures i presented).
Jump to: