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Topic: [ANN] Whirlwind.money | ⚡No Fee⚡ | Ultimate Privacy | Anonymity Mining 12% APR🔥 - page 15. (Read 12755 times)

legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1125
I made a withdrawal of 0.025 BTC yesterday afternoon (like you with 0 hours delay) and so far nothing. Did you get the money, or email reply yet?

The last outgoing transcation is still from the 9th August:
https://www.blockchain.com/de/explorer/addresses/btc/bc1qf8h5k6sash8007vpesymxkw2xsg5d0r3j4l5vmcrwpz2pqu66fjstzgd3r

I have not received a reply to my e-mail (I asked them to reply here on bitcointalk though).
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 5937
Has anyone made a withdrawal yesterday or today?
I withdrew a couple houndred dollars yesterday, chose a delay of 0 hours but the transaction has not been initiated yet.
I made a withdrawal of 0.025 BTC yesterday afternoon (like you with 0 hours delay) and so far nothing. Did you get the money, or email reply yet?
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1125
Send a support email @sam00, just in case. I have also sent one notifying them about this but won't hurt if you do, too.

I have sent them an email now aswell, I just didn't want to cause more work for them initially..
I also told them that they won't have to reply to my email in this case and to rather reply here on bitcointalk for everyone to get the update on the situation Smiley
legendary
Activity: 3038
Merit: 6194
Meh.
Send a support email @sam00, just in case. I have also sent one notifying them about this but won't hurt if you do, too.
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1125
Please update us on this.
This sounds extremely weird. You do still see the satoshi's in your note, don't you?

No, the Note balance has updatet but there has been no transaction so far. Something seems stuck.

My last withdrawal was on the 9th, got the coins.

Looking at an explorer, the last outgoing transactions were made on that date: https://www.blockchain.com/explorer/addresses/btc/bc1qf8h5k6sash8007vpesymxkw2xsg5d0r3j4l5vmcrwpz2pqu66fjstzgd3r

Thank you for that information! As I made my withdrawal on the 11th, I guess that something is stuck :/

Has anyone made a withdrawal yesterday or today?

Yep, today at the begining of the afternoon.
No transactions detected yet
thank you aswell...

I'm not sure if I should contact support as that seems to affect all users.

I hope that @whirlwindmoney already knows about this and won't be sending in a support email in this case.
copper member
Activity: 2940
Merit: 4101
Top Crypto Casino
Has anyone made a withdrawal yesterday or today?

Yep, today at the begining of the afternoon.
No transactions detected yet
legendary
Activity: 2688
Merit: 3983
A support employee is useless if he doesn't have access to actually solve problems, but an anonymous service can't just give such access to any "support employee". There's a lot of trust involved.
At some point, blinded bearer certificates will be used, and mixer will be decentralized. there will be more than one member managing the multi-signature escrow address, not finding a trusted person to manage technical support is a big problem.

In addition, it is not useless, it will reduce the burden on admin/s and organize all requests for them. admin job will be to respond to support requests instead of reviewing messages and responding to them individually.
legendary
Activity: 2758
Merit: 6830
Has anyone made a withdrawal yesterday or today?
I withdrew a couple houndred dollars yesterday, chose a delay of 0 hours but the transaction has not been initiated yet.
My last withdrawal was on the 9th, got the coins.

Looking at an explorer, the last outgoing transactions were made on that date: https://www.blockchain.com/explorer/addresses/btc/bc1qf8h5k6sash8007vpesymxkw2xsg5d0r3j4l5vmcrwpz2pqu66fjstzgd3r
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 16328
Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23

Has anyone made a withdrawal yesterday or today?
I withdrew a couple houndred dollars yesterday, chose a delay of 0 hours but the transaction has not been initiated yet.
Please update us on this.
This sounds extremely weird. You do still see the satoshi's in your note, don't you?
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1125
According to FAQ[1] anonymity set is the number of deposits from which your withdrawal will potentially originate.
it is a reflection of the number of deposits that may be the input of your transaction, and if the number of depositors decreases, then the Anonymity set should decrease, so the stability of the number with a small number of depositors is misleading. Generally, we have to wait for confirmation from the campaign manager.

[1] https://whirlwind.money/
highlighted the important part

See even if 90% of the users withdraw their deposits to whirlwind and you decide to deposit 1mBTC after that, you wait 1 week and then withdraw again, your withdrawal could still originate from any of the deposits made beforehand. As long as there is some balance left in the holding wallet (which will always be as whirlwind also holds coins in there), any withdrawal could originate from any (or multiple) of the deposits made beforehand.
Therefore the anonymity set can not decrease, it can only increase and by being able to merge notes and withdraw parts of the deposits, with every deposit it becomes exponentially more anonymous.



Regarding the support discussion, I would be interested about how many support requests they actually receive. As of right now there's only a few deposits each day at max so there shouldn't be a flood of support requests.



Has anyone made a withdrawal yesterday or today?
I withdrew a couple houndred dollars yesterday, chose a delay of 0 hours but the transaction has not been initiated yet.
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
I don't think it's an issue of money, anyone running a mixing service or any other service should be able to afford a few thousand dollars a month for a good support team, the problem is the training itself, anyone who works as a support member in Whirlwind needs to understand it inside out, or else, their job would be a matter of relaying messages to an actual person who has the answers, and that won't help much.
A support employee is useless if he doesn't have access to actually solve problems, but an anonymous service can't just give such access to any "support employee". There's a lot of trust involved.
legendary
Activity: 2688
Merit: 3983

If I am not mistaken then the anonymity set can not decrease. Even if they stop the campaign, there will still be said 567 deposits and that number will not decrease. From that point on, every withdrawal made on the site could originate from one or multiple of the 567 deposits. Stopping the campaign would probably lead to people withdrawing their coins and the anonymity set increasing slower but it could not decrease.
According to FAQ[1] anonymity set is the number of deposits from which your withdrawal will potentially originate.
it is a reflection of the number of deposits that may be the input of your transaction, and if the number of depositors decreases, then the Anonymity set should decrease, so the stability of the number with a small number of depositors is misleading. Generally, we have to wait for confirmation from the campaign manager.

[1] https://whirlwind.money/

My take on Whirlwind is that at least the person who uses the bitcointalk account is indeed very intelligent, the concept and the idea of the mixer are pretty unique and interesting and have great potential, however, the overall management is pretty bad, lack of support, slow Email response, being inactive on the forum -- all fall under "bad management".
TheQuin is a case in point, it wouldn't be hard to find someone on the forum who has a good knowledge of how whirlwind works.
legendary
Activity: 2534
Merit: 1713
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With what has happened recently, it might be a good idea for them to start considering the option (or at least something similar). If the end goal would be to bring a better customer service experience, then it would go a long way to achieving that. Paying a small amount to have an active member in the forum would alleviate some the concerns members could have (if answers were posted sooner).

Regarding the delay in replying, I alerted them to the necessity of having an active member (if they do not have time,) these things will not cost them much (less than 200 dollars per month) but their effect will be better.
legendary
Activity: 2394
Merit: 6581
be constructive or S.T.F.U
Regarding the delay in replying, I alerted them to the necessity of having an active member (if they do not have time,) these things will not cost them much (less than 200 dollars per month) but their effect will be better.

In addition to that, hiring an active person here to answer frequently asked questions and send problems directly to them if they do not have time to keep this ANN updated. After all, the service is still new and the support team’s delay in responding is not an act of a service that wants to gain trust and needs trust.



[1] https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/address/bc1qf8h5k6sash8007vpesymxkw2xsg5d0r3j4l5vmcrwpz2pqu66fjstzgd3r

I don't think it's an issue of money, anyone running a mixing service or any other service should be able to afford a few thousand dollars a month for a good support team, the problem is the training itself, anyone who works as a support member in Whirlwind needs to understand it inside out, or else, their job would be a matter of relaying messages to an actual person who has the answers, and that won't help much.

My guess is that given that Whirlwind is still new, it's probably only a couple devs on the team, and the resources are pretty limited if they focus on building, they can't respond to support messages or be active on form, and the opposite is correct, but good projects need good management, it's not enough to have the best software technical wise while lacking customer support.

The problem with most projects is that they grow faster than anticipated, you start a small project by yourself or with one or two friends, you write the code, test it, publish it, and then it turns out that in order to keep this live and running, you actually need 10 more people, but those are not ready, so now you and your one or two friends have even more things to do.

You go from just "develop and test" to develop, test, maintain, support, and train and find those 10 people, so overall, things get worse at the second phase of most projects.

This being a custodial service where trust is the code of it all, customer support is arguably the most important element of the whole project, If I send my coins and something goes wrong, I would want answers ASAP, it doesn't matter if my coins are stuck because of a small bug that the result of a huge improvement you added to the system, or because you migrated to a better and stronger server, as a customer I will panic and think my funds are lost forever, and it will be very hard for me to trust the service again.

Auto-Response emails are good, at least you get a confirmation that your email got there.

Quote
Hello, we got your request, your support ticket number is 1234, and we will get back to you ASAP, thanks.

This buys you 1-2 days, right after that, a human response is a must, even if it doesn't solve the issue when it's complicated
Quote
Hello, we looked at your problem, and this needs to be checked by our tech team, I forwarded the issue to them, and will get back to you ASAP
As long as there is active communication, it would be fine if the problem takes a whole week to resolve, it's MUCH better than getting no response at all and the problem is resolved in 3 days for instance.

My take on Whirlwind is that at least the person who uses the bitcointalk account is indeed very intelligent, the concept and the idea of the mixer are pretty unique and interesting and have great potential, however, the overall management is pretty bad, lack of support, slow Email response, being inactive on the forum -- all fall under "bad management".

My advice to Whirlwind is to start seriously working on the support aspect ASAP.





 
 
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1125
Maybe it's better to turn off the "mining rewards" as an additional feature, at least until they implement it better and obviously, it's not set up well. This is not crucial for a mixer service it only unnecessarily casts doubt on the functionality of the whole mixing service.

As GazetaBitcoin calculated, there is a significant amount that can be "saved" with only 2000 satoshi per user, but why would anyone do it and think in such a way, when the very idea of staking came from the owner of a whirlwind? Just stop this option and continue working on mixing only.

The idea behind the anonymity mining campaign was to build a strong anonymity set and therefore make their main service (mixing) more attractive.
The fact that the implementation is somewhat lacking in user experience for some people doesn't negate the fact that it is indeed helping the anonymity set.
It is simply and incentive to deposit and also hold coins on the site while the campaign is running.

If they stop giving mining rewards, then perhaps the Anonymity set will decrease, as there will be no reason to leave your coins in a central mixer that may run away with your money and you will not get a return through it.

If I am not mistaken then the anonymity set can not decrease. Even if they stop the campaign, there will still be said 567 deposits and that number will not decrease. From that point on, every withdrawal made on the site could originate from one or multiple of the 567 deposits. Stopping the campaign would probably lead to people withdrawing their coins and the anonymity set increasing slower but it could not decrease.
legendary
Activity: 2688
Merit: 3983
In isolation, if you look at the bigger picture their email support does not seem to be to a high level and an explanation is needed about the 12% APR for anonymity mining therefore apart from these two issues there do not seem to be any complaints and that is a good sign.

You can check them multi-signature escrow address[1] if there is activity in withdrawals, the mixer is fine and working, and there is a balance of about 10 bitcoins in it, so there are no problems.



Maybe it's better to turn off the "mining rewards" as an additional feature, at least until they implement it better and obviously, it's not set up well. This is not crucial for a mixer service it only unnecessarily casts doubt on the functionality of the whole mixing service.


If they stop giving mining rewards, then perhaps the Anonymity set will decrease, as there will be no reason to leave your coins in a central mixer that may run away with your money and you will not get a return through it. The number is currently 567 user deposits, and I remember that it was about 4xx about two months ago, so there is a good increase in the number of Contributors who trust Whirlwind and canceling this feature may be harmful to Mixer. I don't know if them goal was 1,000 or 10,000 deposits, but features like zero fees and ANONYMITY MINING CAMPAIGN are essential things for them at the moment.




Regarding the delay in replying, I alerted them to the necessity of having an active member (if they do not have time,) these things will not cost them much (less than 200 dollars per month) but their effect will be better.

In addition to that, hiring an active person here to answer frequently asked questions and send problems directly to them if they do not have time to keep this ANN updated. After all, the service is still new and the support team’s delay in responding is not an act of a service that wants to gain trust and needs trust.



[1] https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/address/bc1qf8h5k6sash8007vpesymxkw2xsg5d0r3j4l5vmcrwpz2pqu66fjstzgd3r
legendary
Activity: 3472
Merit: 3507
Crypto Swap Exchange
Now the issue has been raised here in this ANN thread maybe Whirlwind will post here soon with an update including the missing daily rewards. To this point only two participants of the signature campaign mentioned missing anonymity mining rewards. If others calculate their balance and find themselves short they should also post about it.

Maybe it's better to turn off the "mining rewards" as an additional feature, at least until they implement it better and obviously, it's not set up well. This is not crucial for a mixer service it only unnecessarily casts doubt on the functionality of the whole mixing service.

As GazetaBitcoin calculated, there is a significant amount that can be "saved" with only 2000 satoshi per user, but why would anyone do it and think in such a way, when the very idea of staking came from the owner of a whirlwind? Just stop this option and continue working on mixing only.
legendary
Activity: 2534
Merit: 1713
Top Crypto Casino
Now the issue has been raised here in this ANN thread maybe Whirlwind will post here soon with an update including the missing daily rewards. To this point only two participants of the signature campaign mentioned missing anonymity mining rewards. If others calculate their balance and find themselves short they should also post about it.

The system Whirlwind have created seems to work very well. Their onion site doesn't suffer like their clearnet (which is under constant DDoS) and their service give users anonymity. The only problems are related to correct anonymity mining rewards and poor email customer services. I am sure they will explain in detail when they post again.

In isolation, if you look at the bigger picture their email support does not seem to be to a high level and an explanation is needed about the 12% APR for anonymity mining therefore apart from these two issues there do not seem to be any complaints and that is a good sign.

Indeed, there were no other complaints so far about them, excepting the mining rewards and the lack of support... At same time, I don't know if the problem with the daily rewards is a systemic one (meaning if I did not get the rewards in a specific day then all 566 depositors also did not get their rewards or a random one (meaning that only a few random users out of all 566 depositors did not get their rewards in a specific day).

If the problem is systemic then it's a bigger one. Imagine that all those 566 depositors would be supposed to receive 2000 sats in a day. If the problem affects them all, then this is a missing payment of 2000 sats x 566 users = 0.0132 BTC, which is a serious amount. Now if such problem occurs 10 times in a month, the mount goes up to 0.132 BTC. And so on.

Obviously, we can't know what amounts in daily rewards are supposed to be paid to the depositors, but I just gave an example.
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1125
I don't think their absence is because they're grinding in and focusing on some new feature, I think it's quite possible that they feel they've grown to the point where they feel that they just don't need to interact with Bitcointalk anymore. If the site is profitable and paying for itself consistently, and if they're seeing user metrics growing even though they haven't been here on Bitcointalk, it could be possible that simply word of mouth is what will drive them from here on out. It's like if they build truly the best mixer in terms of function and features, it should spread on its own without their need to interact here with us. I mean, it feels a bit like a slap in the face if that's the case, but I would get it and understand it if that was the mentality they were taking. The best, most sustainable mixer should stand on its own without the team having to get into fine details and arguments on forums. I personally do not feel like Whirlwind is at that point yet where they can drop the community on Bitcointalk and expect to grow, but maybe they do.

As of right now they are paying thousands of dollars each week for the signature campaign, reward deposited coins with 12% APR and require you to pay absolutely 0 fees when withdrawing, not even transaction fees on the blockchain. I therefore do not believe that they are already at an break even point right now. It takes a lot of time to build trust and a regular customer base that is appretiative of their service and willing to donate enough.

I'm pretty sure we will hear from the team soon.
full member
Activity: 130
Merit: 150
I don't think their absence is because they're grinding in and focusing on some new feature, I think it's quite possible that they feel they've grown to the point where they feel that they just don't need to interact with Bitcointalk anymore. If the site is profitable and paying for itself consistently, and if they're seeing user metrics growing even though they haven't been here on Bitcointalk, it could be possible that simply word of mouth is what will drive them from here on out. It's like if they build truly the best mixer in terms of function and features, it should spread on its own without their need to interact here with us. I mean, it feels a bit like a slap in the face if that's the case, but I would get it and understand it if that was the mentality they were taking. The best, most sustainable mixer should stand on its own without the team having to get into fine details and arguments on forums. I personally do not feel like Whirlwind is at that point yet where they can drop the community on Bitcointalk and expect to grow, but maybe they do.
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