Topic: [ANN]ASICMiner Publicly Looking for Potential Customers/Partners for New Chips - page 5. (Read 54971 times)

Judging by the history the in stock miners were always overpriced while pre-orders had a lower price. If we add up shipping, customs and maybe PSU then the difference from 0.84$/GH to 1$/GH isn't so big as it looks when comparing 5% with 25%. Now(i know some people will be pissed)...if we look at my GB then we see that pre-orders for a company that already has launched products aren't flying off the shelf even at 0.83$/GH. Even if AM sells in stock miners for 1$/GH or less i still find hard to believe that there are people/miners/investors that are ready to spend ~100M$ for mining equipment in 2-3 months. In my view most of the money went down the hole of the fails and scams that ran for the last year. Now there aren't simply enough money, not unless the BTC price goes up a lot and very fast.

25% margin is pretty high for such a competitive market. Using your number of a $0.8/GH total build cost for the assembler, different margins would produce different prices:
5%: $0.84/GH
10%: $0.88/GH
15%: $0.92/GH
20%: $0.96/GH
25%: $1.00/GH

So by adjusting your margin, you could easily get below $1.00/GH. And I imagine that the market is so competitive at the moment that margins should be on the low side.

Anyway, it's difficult to say what final prices would be, depends a lot on what kind of miners are built: immersion cooling blades, standalone boxes, rack mountable, air-cooling, liquid-cooling, etc. A lot of different possible design choices can be made, each with their specific costs.

Assuming the chips are cost $0.5/GH, ie aout $5 each, then a 2TH box will come in at a cost-to-build price of around $1600, or $0.8/GH assuming it has some form of internal heatsinking/fan arrangement and they give you a PSU with it. That's to get someone to assemble the bits, the chips take away $1000 of the cost, so if they cost $3 to make (?) then AM could in theory get systems for $400 less, around $1200 for 'internal' us. A third part supplier w0uld want to make a margin of at least 25% on selling their box, so getting anything under $1/GH is pretty unlikely.

If they sell chips for those prices then the end price will be higher than 1$/GH for sure and we are back to my posts/questions again. If you expect 109 PH deployed that translates to 109M$ worth of equipment sold to the miners. I just don't see that happen in such a short time.

In that case, I misunderstood you - my apologies.

A while back, FC said the chips would be priced between $0.49 and $0.99 per GH.

The price of a plug-in-ready miner is anyone's guess, depends who builds it.

Never said there is no demand. There is demand for sure. I don't argue that. I was just asking at what price do you see those chips being sold to miners when they are assembled? Until now nobody answered that even if i seem to get replied a lot.

AFAICT, you are arguing that there is no demand for these chips from miners.

Yet, AM appears to have received the payment for them: this fact unambiguously proves that there is demand for these chips!

Can you tell me again how you concluded that there is no demand? Or, in case I misunderstood the point you were trying to make, please repeat it more clearly.

I am still waiting for some kind of good and well-argumented replies not posts who bring nothing to the discussion. I see none until now.

Your argumentation has become pathetic.

Having chips but not mounted on boards and either deployed or sold means that 0 hashrate will go online. What are the buyers of the chips doing with the chips if nobody is buying them? Start deploying their massive farms?

My point is that it is largely irrelevant at this point from the point of view of AM: AM appears to have collected payments for the chips already, and so the buyers of the chips are the ones taking the risk.

Anyway, my calculations show that this hardware will produce a (significant) positive return, and where there is positive return I believe there will be buyers!

My group buy has nothing to do with it. Since you haven't red the post that i pointed to i will ask here too. What's the expected $/GH for this numbers? Assuming 1$/GH at system level, that would mean that 50PH=50M$. With the current exchange rate and with the current market i simply don't think that will happen. A lot of people in the Hardware forum are screaming that mining isn't worth anymore, but yet you expect 109M$ pouring in a matter of 2 months. I don't see that happen.

Bitfair is quite correct  in his assessment, however it's extremely unlikely that anyone would be able to deploy such a large amount of equipment in such a short time let alone build it. If the chips (packaged) come out in June then it would likely take until end August at least to fully deploy them, even with tons of money behind you. My question would be: what size is the next order and when will it be delivered?

I don't think the lack of interest in your group-buy accurately reflects the market conditions faced by AM.

I assume the chips are already paid for by large AM customers because:
(1) the delivery dates suggests that the chips are already ordered
(2) fabs are not known for giving generous credit lines
(3) I don't believe AM has ~$21.8 million in spare cash lying around (109PH@$0.20/GH wafer cost) to build stock.

So to answer the question of "who", suffice to say there appear to be large buyers out there.

Still no answer to my reply: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.6334999 I don't understand how can you think that we will have 109PH deployed by AM by the end of June. Who will invest so much money?

Get the lambs to pay for their own slaughter then? That's smart.

10.9 million chips @ ~10G = 109 PH/s by June's end.

Note: Only ~3 PH/s is scheduled to be retained for self-mining, the rest is to be sold or franchised to interested parties.

Good grief, a man talking sense. What on earth are you doing on here?

Yeah, but a lot of the concepts you laid out above are basically re-inventing the wheel, albeit lopping BTC on top for no good reason.  The goal of most manufacturers is to produce things cheaper and better than anyone else while getting them out to the door sooner so they can charge a premium before the market catches up.  Sound familiar?  BTC is small fish compared to any other manu market in the world, so there is no reason for them to even care about a) sourcing chips, b) understanding the tech/sourcing techies, c) dealing with networking issues, d) dealing with already idiot consumers.  Samsung doesn't want a tech it can't control, shit, it can't manage to keep its devices online when one data center has a fire, you think they're going to rely even 1% of their business on a hashing network?

The problem with the BTC optimists is that they all remind of me of John Stewart in Half Baked.  Saying "... but have you tried owning a toaster, THAT HASHES?!" isn't a compelling argument since that would mean I now need my toaster to be network-enabled (or open up my wireless to another device, f-that), it may require tech support, the BTC chip can fry and I have to send my toaster out for repairs.  

The bigger problem is that we don't need a coin for that^tm.  The mining market has effectively done itself in because of all the big players with $$$ in their eyes (note: not BTC in their eyes, BTC is just a vehicle to cash out with) are cannibalizing one another and the bit players in the community that started it all are now irrelevant.  Now people are trying to find irrelevant uses for the technology.  I remember reading an article about a year ago talking about all the possibilities for BTC since it would provide African farmers with a sustainable currency that avoids national conflicts and thinking "These people are fucking idiots.  African farmers are more concerned with running water and basic medical care."  

Not trying to be offensive, but the mining market is insanely self-serving and relies on a wide net of scammers convincing other suckers to buy stuff that isn't worth buying.  AM is late to the game, all they're going to do is flood a saturated market and make it more likely that other vendors will pull a KNC and self-mine rather than unload cheap tech to willing suckers.  They can just unload cheap BTC to willing suckers instead and people will think they're getting a deal when BTC price is a-falling and nobody cares enough to buy it back up.

There's a strong disconnect with reality in this community.  Unless AM manages to produce (and produce for shareholders) borderline immediately their next line is likely going to be about as useful as the cubes.  Unless you're the one selling hardware.

It's called an absorption fridge. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absorption_refrigerator