[ANN]ASICMiner Publicly Looking for Potential Customers/Partners for New Chips - page 10.

Groc

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Bounty manager (https://t.me/Gudwinn)

Quote from: necro_nemesis on March 17, 2014, 12:43:01 PM

All this talk about widdling down the cost/efficiency of chips to be able to achieve ROI is intersting.

Since were down the price of moving electrons, riddle me this.

Today I asked UPS how much the shipping charges were for sending me one of my U1's. I was quoted, wait for it, $338 using UPS express saver the way it was shipped. Three hundred thirty eight dollars which is incorporated in the price of the U1 and works out to half of the overall cost. Now how much margin is there in these current devices and if time is money how the heck is anyone going to compete against employing them at thier place of origin if they are paying as much to move them as the unit itself could sell for locally.

I'm hoping UPS quoted me incorrectly because this is the elephant in the room.

Buy from local resellers - drastically reduces shipping cost

necro_nemesis

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Activity: 224

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All this talk about widdling down the cost/efficiency of chips to be able to achieve ROI is intersting.

Since were down the price of moving electrons, riddle me this.

Today I asked UPS how much the shipping charges were for sending me one of my U1's. I was quoted, wait for it, $338 using UPS express saver the way it was shipped. Three hundred thirty eight dollars which is incorporated in the price of the U1 and works out to half of the overall cost. Now how much margin is there in these current devices and if time is money how the heck is anyone going to compete against employing them at thier place of origin if they are paying as much to move them as the unit itself could sell for locally.

I'm hoping UPS quoted me incorrectly because this is the elephant in the room.

Biffa

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Quote from: Syke on March 17, 2014, 11:39:28 AM

Quote from: Biffa on March 17, 2014, 11:37:36 AM

Bitfury is just too expensive. Way too expensive its not even funny anymore.

€4,864/$7000 for 560GH/s Huh

That's the old chips. The new chips are priced better. We'll have to wait to see the price of full systems with the new chips before we can call them overpriced.

They will need to be, there is a lot more competition around these days. They won't be able to get away with charging like wounded bulls while (allegedly) financing their own mine this time round.

Syke

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Activity: 3878

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Quote from: Biffa on March 17, 2014, 11:37:36 AM

Bitfury is just too expensive. Way too expensive its not even funny anymore.

€4,864/$7000 for 560GH/s Huh

That's the old chips. The new chips are priced better. We'll have to wait to see the price of full systems with the new chips before we can call them overpriced.

Biffa

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Activity: 3234

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Quote from: bclcjunkie on March 17, 2014, 08:54:13 AM

there's also bitfury that seems to be doing pretty good job on their version 2 chip... and that's just 55nm, i think they can squeeze helluva more should they move to 40nm Grin

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=228677.1080

punin's comments: "Our preliminary tests show 25% increase in hashrate and 25% lower power consumption. We will receive new chips tomorrow and will have samples available to developers."

Bitfury is just too expensive. Way too expensive its not even funny anymore.

€4,864/$7000 for 560GH/s Huh

RoadStress

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Quote from: bclcjunkie on March 17, 2014, 08:54:13 AM

there's also bitfury that seems to be doing pretty good job on their version 2 chip... and that's just 55nm, i think they can squeeze helluva more should they move to 40nm Grin

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=228677.1080

punin's comments: "Our preliminary tests show 25% increase in hashrate and 25% lower power consumption. We will receive new chips tomorrow and will have samples available to developers."

If they had to pay for a whole new mask then that doesn't seem so good to me. If they paid very little or zero for the mask then it's ok

bclcjunkie

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Activity: 833

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there's also bitfury that seems to be doing pretty good job on their version 2 chip... and that's just 55nm, i think they can squeeze helluva more should they move to 40nm Grin

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=228677.1080

punin's comments: "Our preliminary tests show 25% increase in hashrate and 25% lower power consumption. We will receive new chips tomorrow and will have samples available to developers."

necro_nemesis

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I believe prices are currently set based on factoring competition and ROI which is to say there's potentially higher margins then simply bringing the product to market. At some point soon I think it will be simply who can build a miner and sell it for a profit period. The more cost effective manufacturer's will prevail. The inefficient one's will have to bow out.

At some point the only other cost cutting measures will be to remove the distribution supply chain and logistics of distributing equipment. I can see a movement to investing in a manufacturer's mining operations to eliminate all other unnecessary costs of mining.

It may soon come to a point where there isn't enough margin to keep shaving the ice cube on ASIC development efficiency and the the efforts go to running with what you got in higher numbers. Quite conceivably AM may have timed Gen3 perfectly to come in with an efficient ASIC for this very purpose and at a time where further development isn't going to provide significant return for other ASIC makers. They'd have to come up with something considerably more powerful and cost effective and I believe Gen3 was already designed with those two factors in mind.

Teodor

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Totally agree with Fireblade, in 2 weeks prices will be half or even less, as it was with the others miners...

Fireblade

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Quote from: Unacceptable on March 16, 2014, 02:40:43 AM

Quote from: jimmothy on March 16, 2014, 02:18:50 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

well I hope we get some decent competition, I'd hate to see AM hogging the network

Wink

If knc 20nm is actually 40% more efficient than their 28nm they might be on par with asicminers efficiency but I doubt they can match the price with 20nm being so much more expensive.

Not only that,KNC (& Hashfast,Cointerra,etc...) will/have only offer miners in the $5000-$15,000 price range,not many are offering anything for the little guys,so only the rich can get into Bitcoin mining Angry

Thank god Bitmain came up with the S1........now if Blackarrow can get its act together with their Prospero X1.........& maybe ASICminer can offer an affordable miner too.......one can dream can't he Roll Eyes

Don't forget when the Antminer was released the price was 4,5-4.75BTC @ a BTC price of 1000 usd. Eventual the price came down when the diff went up. I don't expect many AM gen miner with a hashrate lower as 1TH. When released in april the price need to be around 4,5-5 BTC/Th. Probably it will, because in april there is a lot of competition, Avalon gen3, Bitmain s2, Chinese A1 (stolen chips or not...). Without a reasonable price people will buy the other "less efficient" hardware.

Unacceptable

legendary

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Quote from: jimmothy on March 16, 2014, 02:18:50 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

well I hope we get some decent competition, I'd hate to see AM hogging the network

Wink

If knc 20nm is actually 40% more efficient than their 28nm they might be on par with asicminers efficiency but I doubt they can match the price with 20nm being so much more expensive.

Not only that,KNC (& Hashfast,Cointerra,etc...) will/have only offer miners in the $5000-$15,000 price range,not many are offering anything for the little guys,so only the rich can get into Bitcoin mining Angry

Thank god Bitmain came up with the S1........now if Blackarrow can get its act together with their Prospero X1.........& maybe ASICminer can offer an affordable miner too.......one can dream can't he Roll Eyes

jimmothy

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Activity: 770

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Quote from: ?? on ??

well I hope we get some decent competition, I'd hate to see AM hogging the network

Wink

If knc 20nm is actually 40% more efficient than their 28nm they might be on par with asicminers efficiency but I doubt they can match the price with 20nm being so much more expensive.

jimmothy

hero member

Activity: 770

Merit: 509

Quote from: bclcjunkie on March 15, 2014, 11:07:23 PM

aaand more competition... here comes avalon gen 3... http://downloads.canaan-creative.com/hardware/A3233/A3233Q48-140313-V01-EN.pdf

768 hash cores, 7 GH/s per chip, 0.75 watts per GH/s, on a 40nm full custom design, not as power efficient as they should be but still adds more pressure..

Quote from: kendog77 on March 15, 2014, 08:19:37 AM

Quote from: jimmothy on March 15, 2014, 03:47:58 AM

Quote from: bclcjunkie on March 15, 2014, 01:52:49 AM

in the meantime... bitmain keep delivering kick ass products... https://bitmaintech.com/productDetail.htm?pid=00020140314135446510cxXNeYAy06E5 1th for just 3899 USD...Power efficiency: 1Watt/GH/s

friedcat needs to work harder for his shareholders this time... Grin

1w/gh is a bit late at this point. AM gen3 is going to put all antminers out of business.

I honestly expected more from bitmain gen2.

Not if ASICMiner continues to overprice their mining hardware. Given ASICMiner's previous track record pricing hardware so miners have no chance of ROI unless they resell, why would you expect them to do anything differently with Gen3?

I doubt ASICMiner will be able to match Bitmain pricing.

0.75/w is hardly competition. Unless these chips sell for dirt cheap I don't see how they can possibly compete with AM chips that are the same die/process size but with twice the hashrate and efficiency.

This all assumes they meet simulated specs.

bclcjunkie

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aaand more competition... here comes avalon gen 3... http://downloads.canaan-creative.com/hardware/A3233/A3233Q48-140313-V01-EN.pdf

768 hash cores, 7 GH/s per chip, 0.75 watts per GH/s, on a 40nm full custom design, not as power efficient as they should be but still adds more pressure..

Quote from: kendog77 on March 15, 2014, 08:19:37 AM

Quote from: jimmothy on March 15, 2014, 03:47:58 AM

Quote from: bclcjunkie on March 15, 2014, 01:52:49 AM

in the meantime... bitmain keep delivering kick ass products... https://bitmaintech.com/productDetail.htm?pid=00020140314135446510cxXNeYAy06E5 1th for just 3899 USD...Power efficiency: 1Watt/GH/s

friedcat needs to work harder for his shareholders this time... Grin

1w/gh is a bit late at this point. AM gen3 is going to put all antminers out of business.

I honestly expected more from bitmain gen2.

Not if ASICMiner continues to overprice their mining hardware. Given ASICMiner's previous track record pricing hardware so miners have no chance of ROI unless they resell, why would you expect them to do anything differently with Gen3?

I doubt ASICMiner will be able to match Bitmain pricing.

Flashman

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Activity: 518

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Hodl!

Quote from: elasticband on March 15, 2014, 08:01:46 AM

gen 3 will be close to 1TH 500w $2000

Better be, no way I'm paying more than $2 a Gh now and even that is looking highly short term.

kendog77

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Quote from: jimmothy on March 15, 2014, 03:47:58 AM

Quote from: bclcjunkie on March 15, 2014, 01:52:49 AM

in the meantime... bitmain keep delivering kick ass products... https://bitmaintech.com/productDetail.htm?pid=00020140314135446510cxXNeYAy06E5 1th for just 3899 USD...Power efficiency: 1Watt/GH/s

friedcat needs to work harder for his shareholders this time... Grin

1w/gh is a bit late at this point. AM gen3 is going to put all antminers out of business.

I honestly expected more from bitmain gen2.

Not if ASICMiner continues to overprice their mining hardware. Given ASICMiner's previous track record pricing hardware so miners have no chance of ROI unless they resell, why would you expect them to do anything differently with Gen3?

I doubt ASICMiner will be able to match Bitmain pricing.

elasticband

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Nighty Night Don't Let The Trolls Bite Nom Nom Nom

Quote from: sbfree on March 15, 2014, 04:09:26 AM

Quote from: jimmothy on March 15, 2014, 03:47:58 AM

Quote from: bclcjunkie on March 15, 2014, 01:52:49 AM

in the meantime... bitmain keep delivering kick ass products... https://bitmaintech.com/productDetail.htm?pid=00020140314135446510cxXNeYAy06E5 1th for just 3899 USD...Power efficiency: 1Watt/GH/s

friedcat needs to work harder for his shareholders this time... Grin

1w/gh is a bit late at this point. AM gen3 is going to put all antminers out of business.

I honestly expected more from bitmain gen2.

and when do you predict these gen2 miners to be actually hashing???

asicminer will be gen 3 not gen 2, gen 2 skipped production.

gen 3 will be close to 1TH 500w $2000

elasticband

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Nighty Night Don't Let The Trolls Bite Nom Nom Nom

Quote from: jimmothy on March 15, 2014, 03:47:58 AM

Quote from: bclcjunkie on March 15, 2014, 01:52:49 AM

in the meantime... bitmain keep delivering kick ass products... https://bitmaintech.com/productDetail.htm?pid=00020140314135446510cxXNeYAy06E5 1th for just 3899 USD...Power efficiency: 1Watt/GH/s

friedcat needs to work harder for his shareholders this time... Grin

1w/gh is a bit late at this point. AM gen3 is going to put all antminers out of business.

I honestly expected more from bitmain gen2.

they are not gen 2, just a under volted build of their current chip, more chips, less watts.

sbfree

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Quote from: jimmothy on March 15, 2014, 03:47:58 AM

Quote from: bclcjunkie on March 15, 2014, 01:52:49 AM

in the meantime... bitmain keep delivering kick ass products... https://bitmaintech.com/productDetail.htm?pid=00020140314135446510cxXNeYAy06E5 1th for just 3899 USD...Power efficiency: 1Watt/GH/s

friedcat needs to work harder for his shareholders this time... Grin

1w/gh is a bit late at this point. AM gen3 is going to put all antminers out of business.

I honestly expected more from bitmain gen2.

and when do you predict these gen2 miners to be actually hashing???

jimmothy

hero member

Activity: 770

Merit: 509

Quote from: bclcjunkie on March 15, 2014, 01:52:49 AM

in the meantime... bitmain keep delivering kick ass products... https://bitmaintech.com/productDetail.htm?pid=00020140314135446510cxXNeYAy06E5 1th for just 3899 USD...Power efficiency: 1Watt/GH/s

friedcat needs to work harder for his shareholders this time... Grin

1w/gh is a bit late at this point. AM gen3 is going to put all antminers out of business.

I honestly expected more from bitmain gen2.

Topic: [ANN]ASICMiner Publicly Looking for Potential Customers/Partners for New Chips - page 10. (Read 54979 times)