Topic: [ANN][AUTO-SWITCH] Profit-switch auto-exchange pool: CleverMining.com - page 280. (Read 554401 times)

I stopped mining on the 10 th, when my unexchanged was ~4 times what ready for payout was.
Now 4 days later it looks like this:



Pity as I realy like your design and all.
Till that's resolved I'm at middlecoin.

I encourage everyone to do his own math. There will be differences because of different methodologies as there are many ways in which people might want to try to calculate earnings from pools that have four different balances (immature, unexchanged, balance, payouts), and not all of these methods will be correct. Also, I read that different people have different BTC/day per MH/s at Middlecoin, so everyone's mileage may vary. I have no idea why that's the case with Middlecoin. At CleverMining everyone's BTC/day per MH/s is the same and everyone is paid proportionally to his contributed hashpower.

I have no intention of discussing this further as everyone can and should do their own math and I probably shouldn't involve myself in such comparisons. At the end of the day it's you who should compare and decide. I just wanted to post the numbers that I monitor but that's all. I don't want to involve myself in discussing other pools here. But feel free to compare the numbers by yourself by any means.

Of course I am considering it. I don't even compare payouts as they are totally irrelevant (due to immature and unexchanged balances which have very various times of converting to payable balance). I compare total expected BTC. I take sum of (Immature + Unexchanged + Balance + Paid), check how it changed within a period that I am interested in and divide it by hashrate reported by the pool within this period. It's the most reliable and most comparable way.

I did the calculation for myself on middlecoin for today, it's 0.012 BTC / MH/s / day, very similar to yesterday.

EDIT: middlecoin may vary a lot for some users, depending on the server you are connected to; a single day is not enough, I guess at least a week should be considered.

Thank you! I didn't know this page, but I'm glad you posted it as it shows exactly the same numbers as my comparison script. This guy's 2014-02-14 earnings average are 3.0482 BTC/day which divided by his 4h average accepted MH/s gives 3.0482 / 293.089 = 0.01040025 BTC/day per MH/s.

I'm sure that you do, but are you considering unexchanged and immature in your calculations? Middlecoin often has tons of unexchanged and there may be a significant difference in a day; es. 0.1 payout but unexchanged went from 0.05. to 0.08 so total is 0.13.

You hit the nail.... 

CleverMining had some rough days after launch. First days had technical problems which affected profitability. Then we unsuccessfully thrown ourselves at DOGE with too little hashrate. Except these 7 days, previous profitability (during closed beta) was significantly higher than Waffle. I publish daily numbers for the last 30 days so you can check profitability history. Unfortunately comparing to Waffle will be hard as they stopped publishing long-term data very recently and now show only the last 7 days.

Comparing us to Middlecoin - and I am being honest here - we were worse in the last 7 days due to both technical problems and our inability to mine DOGE which was highly profitable (but we were better earlier, during closed beta). Both of these issues are out of equation now. We no longer have any technical problems and DOGE is no longer that profitable (it still sometimes is when a high-reward block is coming, but it's not that frequent). So I guess the next couple of days should be a good base for comparison with an equal playing field (starting today, Feb 14th, as DOGE halved its reward yesterday).

Taking a quick look at today's numbers:

WafflePool: Feb 14, 2014 (partial): 0.0070 BTC/day per MH/s
Middlecoin: Feb 14, 2014 (partial): 0.0104 BTC/day per MH/s (149% of WafflePool)
CleverMining: Feb 14, 2014 (partial): 0.0130 BTC/day per MH/s (186% of WafflePool, 125% of Milddlecoin)

I know the sample is absolutely tiny (13 hours) so there might be a big luck factor here, but I will continue watching the numbers in longer term.

Where these numbers come from: I have a script running that automatically fetches Middlecoin data and compares. I don't have a script for WafflePool so I just took what they publish on the website as “Feb 14, 2014 (partial)”. CleverMining and Middlecoin compares exactly the same period (UTC time, so 13 hours since midnight). I don't know what timezone WafflePool uses but considering their yesterday result is very close to today's, different timezone shouldn't affect the numbers much.

I know that CleverMining has yet to earn its name by showing outstanding profitability and I believe it will happen soon.

I invite everyone who hesitates to join or rejoin. We really could use some more hashpower.

I'm using this page, and a dude that's has around 270MH.

http://middlecoin.info/flotchart.php?BTC=1BtzFDErNKMMFeCSkho9tK7Cr8eus64x5K

FWIW, just as an alternate opinion on this issue, I don't require any of this kind of transparency at all to point my hashes at clevermining. I also don't need a well-designed website. I have hashed at middlecoin and at wafflepool and their pedestrian websites don't put me off at all. I do not care what coin the pool is mining at any given time. I really only care about maximizing my profit and I don't need @Terk to tell me how he is doing that as long as he is actually doing it. I also don't care what his fees are. If his fees are literally 5 times higher than the fees at middlecoin or wafflepool, but I am still banking more coin to my wallet, then I am happy to pay those fees. In my reality, there is no such thing as "fair" fees. If @Terk figures out how to get me more coins for my hashrate than I can get elsewhere, then he can charge me whatever he wants to put more coins in my wallet than I can get elsewhere.

The only transparency that I need is as follows:

1. The indisputable and irreversible BTC deposits into my wallet should match up with the claimed stats on the website
2. Nobody else who is mining at the pool should be reporting discrepancies in what they are actually being paid

For me, the reason that I am currently hashing at clevermining is that from the care of design of his website and from his responsiveness in this thread, I believe that @Terk is putting in a good-faith effort to create a more profitable pool and based on the quality of his work that I have seen so far, I think it is possible/probable that he may be better at it than others. But I will switch to another pool as soon as I don't believe that anymore.

So far, for me the results are still inconclusive. On the plus side the reported history of profitability looks to me a bit better than middlecoin and a fair bit better than wafflepool, though I don't think there is enough history yet for that to be conclusive. My own experience is that my daily earnings at clevermining have been roughly on par with my daily earnings at middlecoin - within the statistical noise that mining is. But that is also not conclusive to me because I haven't mined long enough at either pool to get past the statistical noise.

I'm not saying that you are not correct for yourself and others requiring the kind of transparency that you are asking for in order for clevermining to gain more hashers. You might be totally right about that. I'm just saying that that is not true for me. Given the ease of pointing one's miner at another pool at a moment's notice, I just utterly fail to see how @Terk could possibly be taking advantage or scamming anyone. As long as the payouts are hitting miner's wallets, I just don't see any space available for ripping anyone off. And obviously the moment the payouts are not happening, or are not competitive, it will be completely obvious to everyone and there will instantly be no more clevermining.

At absolute BEST, @Terk might be able to walk away with one day's take before everyone left. My guess is not even that. And given what he has obviously invested in sweat so far, my judgement is that he has much more financial incentive to make the results as competitive as possible and pull in his percentage for the long haul.

That's my 2c.

Which page is that?

Last I looked mc was at 0.0109, but hard to compare as the page I uses, are calculated from last payout.

hmmm currently clevermining states 0.01137, yesterday middlecoin did about 0.013...

Vardiff not online right now

Looking at the data on CleverMine and a stat page for middlecoin, then Clever is in front in btc/mh

but in 2 hours, it might change... but so far, i'll stick with Clever... just hoping more will join.

So anyone ran a parallel side-by-side comparison between clevermining and middlecoin?

Also, has vardiff been re-enabled yet?

Yes, but they have nothing to prove to anyone - they're already popular and well tested/trusted. CleverMining still has everything to prove.

Middlecoin does not show the visibility of the coin currently being mined and it is successful.

Yes but if you look at how waffle selects which shares to reject (there is talk about this in their thread), you'll see that it actually gives less profit.
It just encourages new miners but if everybody has lower rejects, and the shares which are not rejected do not make up for block finding, you have no advantages. You may mine some seconds a day for nothing, though.
That's why middlecoin has a similar reject rate to this pool.

Just switched to Wafflepool. Found a block within seconds. Reject rate is super low currently compared to clevermining. My discards are also now a fraction of what I was getting. Looks like ill stick to wafflepool for the time being.

Cheers.

I agree, Visibility of the Coin currently being Mined and the Profitability of said coin and some other metrics would give people more reasons to trust your site.

I love that i don't have to set up a separate Work account for each miner.but if i knew that there was a profitable Coin and couldn't verify what Coin was currently be mined by Clevermining, I'd be tempted to switch off briefly in case i missed out.