[ANN][Blocknet] truly decentralized exchange | token ecosystem infrastructure - page 184.

battbot

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Quote from: starblocks on March 14, 2015, 07:59:51 AM

Quote from: battbot on March 14, 2015, 07:34:22 AM

Quote from: starblocks on March 14, 2015, 05:37:14 AM

hello @synechist it's my crazy ass again, can you give me an invite to slack please? some things to discuss perhaps, if you like - no pressure

To register for Blocknet slack visit the following link:

http://goo.gl/forms/UkViMl2fKn

i don't own any yet but i'm an advocate, still waiting to see how this concept goes direction wise Wink

I see. Well, in case you didn't know, you don't need to own BLOCK to join Blocknet's Slack.

starblocks

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Quote from: battbot on March 14, 2015, 07:34:22 AM

Quote from: starblocks on March 14, 2015, 05:37:14 AM

hello @synechist it's my crazy ass again, can you give me an invite to slack please? some things to discuss perhaps, if you like - no pressure

To register for Blocknet slack visit the following link:

http://goo.gl/forms/UkViMl2fKn

i don't own any yet but i'm an advocate, still waiting to see how this concept goes direction wise Wink

battbot

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Quote from: starblocks on March 14, 2015, 05:37:14 AM

hello @synechist it's my crazy ass again, can you give me an invite to slack please? some things to discuss perhaps, if you like - no pressure

To register for Blocknet slack visit the following link:

http://goo.gl/forms/UkViMl2fKn

starblocks

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hello @synechist it's my crazy ass again, can you give me an invite to slack please? some things to discuss perhaps, if you like - no pressure

Cassius

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My point was that centralisation is an odd way to describe anything in this space and the fact that users will have to download a Blocknet client somewhat 'centralises' it... it was a reductio ad absurdum.

You'll need to PM noashh for an invite to Slack as he'll send you an invite by email. Welcome!

synechist

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Quote from: Cassius on March 11, 2015, 02:57:38 PM

Quote from: synechist on March 11, 2015, 12:54:41 PM

Thanks for the invitation. I'd be interested in joining, though as far as I'm aware the SuperNET folks don't seem very positively disposed toward me for some reason. Do you think they'd actually welcome me?

I agree that there's some irony in calling blockchain-based tech centralised, though in this context - which is the networking of chains - the distinctions do apply, and without ambiguity.

(That said, I also agree that there's a lack of marketing-friendly terminology to talk about this stuff. With so many layers, each of which can be centralised or decentralised, it's a complex landscape. Once we move from developing the core components onto marketing it to customers, we will need a good set of ways to present the differences. For the time being, I'm just using technical though confusing language.)

By the same token, could you call Blocknet centralised around... Blocknet? It seems like a very strange distinction to make.
Re: Slack, I'm not saying it would be welcome with open arms, but there are already other Blocknetters there and they haven't been tarred and feathered yet.

Well, no. The Blocknet is a network. If its architecture is decentralized, then it's foggy. If it's centralized, then it's cloudy.

Maybe an analogy will help me express myself. The fact that the Blocknet is a network of networks is equivalent to the fact that the internet is (partly) a network of LANs. Now if every LAN was decentralised but the internet was centralised, then the internet would still be centralised. But if the internet was decentralised, then it would still be so even if every LAN was centralised.

The bottom line: if a network-of-networks is centralised, this property is unaffected by nature of the sub-networks. That's why I've said earlier that I think Multigateway renders SuperNET a cloud service bus.

Anyway...

Sign me up for the SuperNET Slack! It sounds like it's worth a try.

Cassius

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Quote from: synechist on March 11, 2015, 12:54:41 PM

Thanks for the invitation. I'd be interested in joining, though as far as I'm aware the SuperNET folks don't seem very positively disposed toward me for some reason. Do you think they'd actually welcome me?

I agree that there's some irony in calling blockchain-based tech centralised, though in this context - which is the networking of chains - the distinctions do apply, and without ambiguity.

(That said, I also agree that there's a lack of marketing-friendly terminology to talk about this stuff. With so many layers, each of which can be centralised or decentralised, it's a complex landscape. Once we move from developing the core components onto marketing it to customers, we will need a good set of ways to present the differences. For the time being, I'm just using technical though confusing language.)

By the same token, could you call Blocknet centralised around... Blocknet? It seems like a very strange distinction to make.
Re: Slack, I'm not saying it would be welcome with open arms, but there are already other Blocknetters there and they haven't been tarred and feathered yet.

criptix

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Quote from: synechist on March 11, 2015, 01:43:26 PM

Quote from: criptix on March 11, 2015, 01:32:59 PM

using your example all cryptos are centralised if you use crypto without mining them?

No, the context is networking between blockchains.

If they're networked via a hub, then the network is centralised.

This is true even if the hub is blockchain-based.

In such a scenario (e.g. Atomic, and also sidechains in a different way), a central blockchain records transactions between all other blockchains. Thus, even though the central blockchain is internally decentralised, its position in the inter-chain network is as a centralised entity.

See what I mean?

i understand what you mean, but i'm not convinced.

taking atomic for example - without the peers of the network (miner) nothing would work. i think there is no stronger definition of fog computing and decentralisation.

i think it really depends on the viewpoint and understanding of the definition of centralisation.
so i guess we can agree to disagree

synechist

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More coverage for the Blocknet-Horizon-Bitnation partnership!

http://www.btcfeed.net/news/harnassing-blockchain-technology-create-diy-governance-2-0/

synechist

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To commodify ethicality is to ethicise the market

Quote from: criptix on March 11, 2015, 01:32:59 PM

using your example all cryptos are centralised if you use crypto without mining them?

No, the context is networking between blockchains.

If they're networked via a hub, then the network is centralised.

This is true even if the hub is blockchain-based.

In such a scenario (e.g. Atomic, and also sidechains in a different way), a central blockchain records transactions between all other blockchains. Thus, even though the central blockchain is internally decentralised, its position in the inter-chain network is as a centralised entity.

See what I mean?

criptix

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Quote from: synechist on March 11, 2015, 12:00:42 PM

Quote from: Cassius on March 11, 2015, 11:36:46 AM

Quote from: synechist on March 11, 2015, 11:18:47 AM

Multigateway, which facilitates the exchange of currencies between nodes on different blockchains, involves groups of servers mediating the exchange.

As such, exchange between buyer and seller is not conducted on a peer-to-peer basis. There is a third party involved (albeit not a traditional monolithic third party, but groups of servers utilising m-of-3 multisig). This third party mediates the transaction, and must be trusted to do so.

The above is what it means to perform a cloud service. Processing occurs at (well, near) the centre of the network, rather than being pushed to the network's edges (i.e. the peers), which is what defines fog computing.

Therefore, Multigateway is a cloud service bus for blockchain-based nodes.

In contrast, the Blocknet's decentralised exchange is being developed on a radically p2p model, making it a fog computing service.

You are selecting one element of SuperNET - one of the gateway mechanisms for coins, fiat, assets etc - and characterising all of SuperNET in terms of this alone. InstantDEX is a near-realtime peer-to-peer exchange service. This is clearly not cloudy.

You're entirely correct. I have only referred to Multigateway and not to all the other SuperNET components.

On the other hand, I selected Multigateway carefully. InstantDEX is p2p but runs on the NXT Asset Exchange and thus is on the NXT blockchain. Therefore it is not inter-chain – which is the context of the discussion.

To give another example of something related to InstantDEX that is cloudy rather than foggy, ATOMIC is a blockchain that records transactions of other chains. Thus it centralises inter-chain networking.

(Correct me if I'm mistaken, of course. I'm no expert on this tech and I'm happy to stand corrected if I'm mistaken.)

using your example all cryptos are centralised if you use crypto without mining them?

i think your explanation is very misleading.

there is no central authority x that controls y.

synechist

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To commodify ethicality is to ethicise the market

Quote from: Cassius on March 11, 2015, 12:13:31 PM

Quote from: synechist on March 11, 2015, 12:00:42 PM

Quote from: Cassius on March 11, 2015, 11:36:46 AM

Quote from: synechist on March 11, 2015, 11:18:47 AM

Multigateway, which facilitates the exchange of currencies between nodes on different blockchains, involves groups of servers mediating the exchange.

As such, exchange between buyer and seller is not conducted on a peer-to-peer basis. There is a third party involved (albeit not a traditional monolithic third party, but groups of servers utilising m-of-3 multisig). This third party mediates the transaction, and must be trusted to do so.

The above is what it means to perform a cloud service. Processing occurs at (well, near) the centre of the network, rather than being pushed to the network's edges (i.e. the peers), which is what defines fog computing.

Therefore, Multigateway is a cloud service bus for blockchain-based nodes.

In contrast, the Blocknet's decentralised exchange is being developed on a radically p2p model, making it a fog computing service.

You are selecting one element of SuperNET - one of the gateway mechanisms for coins, fiat, assets etc - and characterising all of SuperNET in terms of this alone. InstantDEX is a near-realtime peer-to-peer exchange service. This is clearly not cloudy.

You're entirely correct. I have only referred to Multigateway and not to all the other SuperNET components.

On the other hand, I selected Multigateway carefully. InstantDEX is p2p but runs on the NXT Asset Exchange and thus is on the NXT blockchain. Therefore it is not inter-chain – which is the context of the discussion.

To give another example of something related to InstantDEX that is cloudy rather than foggy, ATOMIC is a blockchain that records transactions of other chains. Thus it centralises inter-chain networking.

(Correct me if I'm mistaken, of course. I'm no expert on this tech and I'm happy to stand corrected if I'm mistaken.)

I'm not an expert at every aspect of the tech myself. If you are genuinely interested in learning the differences then do drop over to Slack and ask. However, I'd be wary of calling any blockchain 'centralised', NXT or Atomic or any other, even in this context. It seems like an odd word to use to describe it. This is only the first stage, in any case, but you'd need to ask devs directly for details as I'm not at liberty to discuss them.
Ultimately if you want to differentiate the two projects, I'd think there were better and clearer ways of doing it. If you're serious about pushing crypto out to a broader user-base, then discussions about the difference between distributed and decentralised aren't going to be much of a marketing tool.

Thanks for the invitation. I'd be interested in joining, though as far as I'm aware the SuperNET folks don't seem very positively disposed toward me for some reason. Do you think they'd actually welcome me?

I agree that there's some irony in calling blockchain-based tech centralised, though in this context - which is the networking of chains - the distinctions do apply, and without ambiguity.

(That said, I also agree that there's a lack of marketing-friendly terminology to talk about this stuff. With so many layers, each of which can be centralised or decentralised, it's a complex landscape. Once we move from developing the core components onto marketing it to customers, we will need a good set of ways to present the differences. For the time being, I'm just using technical though confusing language.)

Cassius

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Quote from: synechist on March 11, 2015, 12:00:42 PM

Quote from: Cassius on March 11, 2015, 11:36:46 AM

Quote from: synechist on March 11, 2015, 11:18:47 AM

Multigateway, which facilitates the exchange of currencies between nodes on different blockchains, involves groups of servers mediating the exchange.

As such, exchange between buyer and seller is not conducted on a peer-to-peer basis. There is a third party involved (albeit not a traditional monolithic third party, but groups of servers utilising m-of-3 multisig). This third party mediates the transaction, and must be trusted to do so.

The above is what it means to perform a cloud service. Processing occurs at (well, near) the centre of the network, rather than being pushed to the network's edges (i.e. the peers), which is what defines fog computing.

Therefore, Multigateway is a cloud service bus for blockchain-based nodes.

In contrast, the Blocknet's decentralised exchange is being developed on a radically p2p model, making it a fog computing service.

You are selecting one element of SuperNET - one of the gateway mechanisms for coins, fiat, assets etc - and characterising all of SuperNET in terms of this alone. InstantDEX is a near-realtime peer-to-peer exchange service. This is clearly not cloudy.

You're entirely correct. I have only referred to Multigateway and not to all the other SuperNET components.

On the other hand, I selected Multigateway carefully. InstantDEX is p2p but runs on the NXT Asset Exchange and thus is on the NXT blockchain. Therefore it is not inter-chain – which is the context of the discussion.

To give another example of something related to InstantDEX that is cloudy rather than foggy, ATOMIC is a blockchain that records transactions of other chains. Thus it centralises inter-chain networking.

(Correct me if I'm mistaken, of course. I'm no expert on this tech and I'm happy to stand corrected if I'm mistaken.)

I'm not an expert at every aspect of the tech myself. If you are genuinely interested in learning the differences then do drop over to Slack and ask. However, I'd be wary of calling any blockchain 'centralised', NXT or Atomic or any other, even in this context. It seems like an odd word to use to describe it. This is only the first stage, in any case, but you'd need to ask devs directly for details as I'm not at liberty to discuss them.
Ultimately if you want to differentiate the two projects, I'd think there were better and clearer ways of doing it. If you're serious about pushing crypto out to a broader user-base, then discussions about the difference between distributed and decentralised aren't going to be much of a marketing tool.

synechist

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Activity: 1190

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To commodify ethicality is to ethicise the market

Quote from: Cassius on March 11, 2015, 11:36:46 AM

Quote from: synechist on March 11, 2015, 11:18:47 AM

Multigateway, which facilitates the exchange of currencies between nodes on different blockchains, involves groups of servers mediating the exchange.

As such, exchange between buyer and seller is not conducted on a peer-to-peer basis. There is a third party involved (albeit not a traditional monolithic third party, but groups of servers utilising m-of-3 multisig). This third party mediates the transaction, and must be trusted to do so.

The above is what it means to perform a cloud service. Processing occurs at (well, near) the centre of the network, rather than being pushed to the network's edges (i.e. the peers), which is what defines fog computing.

Therefore, Multigateway is a cloud service bus for blockchain-based nodes.

In contrast, the Blocknet's decentralised exchange is being developed on a radically p2p model, making it a fog computing service.

You are selecting one element of SuperNET - one of the gateway mechanisms for coins, fiat, assets etc - and characterising all of SuperNET in terms of this alone. InstantDEX is a near-realtime peer-to-peer exchange service. This is clearly not cloudy.

You're entirely correct. I have only referred to Multigateway and not to all the other SuperNET components.

On the other hand, I selected Multigateway carefully. InstantDEX is p2p but runs on the NXT Asset Exchange and thus is on the NXT blockchain. Therefore it is not inter-chain – which is the context of the discussion.

To give another example of something related to InstantDEX that is cloudy rather than foggy, ATOMIC is a blockchain that records transactions of other chains. Thus it centralises inter-chain networking.

(Correct me if I'm mistaken, of course. I'm no expert on this tech and I'm happy to stand corrected if I'm mistaken.)

Cassius

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Quote from: synechist on March 11, 2015, 11:18:47 AM

Multigateway, which facilitates the exchange of currencies between nodes on different blockchains, involves groups of servers mediating the exchange.

As such, exchange between buyer and seller is not conducted on a peer-to-peer basis. There is a third party involved (albeit not a traditional monolithic third party, but groups of servers utilising m-of-3 multisig). This third party mediates the transaction, and must be trusted to do so.

The above is what it means to perform a cloud service. Processing occurs at (well, near) the centre of the network, rather than being pushed to the network's edges (i.e. the peers), which is what defines fog computing.

Therefore, Multigateway is a cloud service bus for blockchain-based nodes.

In contrast, the Blocknet's decentralised exchange is being developed on a radically p2p model, making it a fog computing service.

You are selecting one element of SuperNET - one of the gateway mechanisms for coins, fiat, assets etc - and characterising all of SuperNET in terms of this alone. InstantDEX is a near-realtime peer-to-peer exchange service. This is clearly not cloudy.

synechist

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Activity: 1190

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To commodify ethicality is to ethicise the market

Quote from: criptix on March 11, 2015, 10:11:21 AM

Quote from: synechist on March 11, 2015, 09:54:32 AM

Quote from: Dungor on March 10, 2015, 03:43:45 PM

Quote from: Cassius on March 10, 2015, 03:19:17 PM

Quote from: synechist on March 10, 2015, 10:45:34 AM

Quote from: mistercoin on March 10, 2015, 10:28:38 AM

Quote from: GStealthCoin on March 09, 2015, 01:31:44 PM

Can someone in the know explain the difference between Blocknet and SuperNet?

It is very encouraging to see BitNation selecting BlockNet as a partner over SuperNet, but it would be great to understand why.

Thanks,

G.

I would also like to know the key differences.

There is one key difference that really stands out: the Blocknet is a fog computing service bus, whereas SuperNET is a cloud computing service bus. (Google those terms if you're not familiar.)

As our project develops, you will see increasing differentiation, which will be especially evident in three areas: the openness of our platform, our focus on microservices, and the markets we will be building for. http://blocknet.co outlines all this in broad strokes.

No.

Service bus for blockchains.

@cassius: if no, then why?

Note that this is from a demand chain and supply chain perspective.

interesting, could you please give me examples for your statement regarding supernet and blocknet being cloud computing/fog computing?

from all the existing features of supernet so far it looks much more like fog computing to me (i.e. network communication and instantdex). regarding blocknet i dont have enough information to comment on.

Quote from: Cassius on March 11, 2015, 10:23:06 AM

Looking at it another way, why would you say it was cloudy?

Multigateway, which facilitates the exchange of currencies between nodes on different blockchains, involves groups of servers mediating the exchange.

As such, exchange between buyer and seller is not conducted on a peer-to-peer basis. There is a third party involved (albeit not a traditional monolithic third party, but groups of servers utilising m-of-3 multisig). This third party mediates the transaction, and must be trusted to do so.

The above is what it means to perform a cloud service. Processing occurs at (well, near) the centre of the network, rather than being pushed to the network's edges (i.e. the peers), which is what defines fog computing.

Therefore, Multigateway is a cloud service bus for blockchain-based nodes.

In contrast, the Blocknet's decentralised exchange is being developed on a radically p2p model, making it a fog computing service.

Cassius

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Looking at it another way, why would you say it was cloudy?

criptix

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Quote from: synechist on March 11, 2015, 09:54:32 AM

Quote from: Dungor on March 10, 2015, 03:43:45 PM

Quote from: Cassius on March 10, 2015, 03:19:17 PM

Quote from: synechist on March 10, 2015, 10:45:34 AM

Quote from: mistercoin on March 10, 2015, 10:28:38 AM

Quote from: GStealthCoin on March 09, 2015, 01:31:44 PM

Can someone in the know explain the difference between Blocknet and SuperNet?

It is very encouraging to see BitNation selecting BlockNet as a partner over SuperNet, but it would be great to understand why.

Thanks,

G.

I would also like to know the key differences.

There is one key difference that really stands out: the Blocknet is a fog computing service bus, whereas SuperNET is a cloud computing service bus. (Google those terms if you're not familiar.)

As our project develops, you will see increasing differentiation, which will be especially evident in three areas: the openness of our platform, our focus on microservices, and the markets we will be building for. http://blocknet.co outlines all this in broad strokes.

No.

Service bus for blockchains.

@cassius: if no, then why?

Note that this is from a demand chain and supply chain perspective.

interesting, could you please give me examples for your statement regarding supernet and blocknet being cloud computing/fog computing?

from all the existing features of supernet so far it looks much more like fog computing to me (i.e. network communication and instantdex). regarding blocknet i dont have enough information to comment on.

synechist

legendary

Activity: 1190

Merit: 1000

To commodify ethicality is to ethicise the market

Quote from: Dungor on March 10, 2015, 03:43:45 PM

Quote from: Cassius on March 10, 2015, 03:19:17 PM

Quote from: synechist on March 10, 2015, 10:45:34 AM

Quote from: mistercoin on March 10, 2015, 10:28:38 AM

Quote from: GStealthCoin on March 09, 2015, 01:31:44 PM

Can someone in the know explain the difference between Blocknet and SuperNet?

It is very encouraging to see BitNation selecting BlockNet as a partner over SuperNet, but it would be great to understand why.

Thanks,

G.

I would also like to know the key differences.

There is one key difference that really stands out: the Blocknet is a fog computing service bus, whereas SuperNET is a cloud computing service bus. (Google those terms if you're not familiar.)

As our project develops, you will see increasing differentiation, which will be especially evident in three areas: the openness of our platform, our focus on microservices, and the markets we will be building for. http://blocknet.co outlines all this in broad strokes.

No.

Service bus for blockchains.

@cassius: if no, then why?

Note that this is from a demand chain and supply chain perspective.

richwang

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Activity: 605

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price doubled

Topic: [ANN][Blocknet] truly decentralized exchange | token ecosystem infrastructure - page 184. (Read 1103293 times)