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Topic: [ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin" - page 497. (Read 1151252 times)

hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1002
CLAM Developer
S C L A M Coin !
Sorry couldn't resist.
I guess the devs put in a lot of work, and it is innovative.
But its a load of bollocks.
Like I said.... Ive been wrong before!
Still guys! good work! But still bollocks!

Fair enough  Grin Grin Grin

You seem like "good people"  Grin

And we like the similarity of the L with the monetary symbol for Litecoin Grin
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1002
CLAM Developer
Oh yeah, very original https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.6236603
Thanks, I have lots of great Ideas. Glad to see someone implemented it.
Did you make a bunch of addresses ahead of time like I suggested?

All due respect, friend:

We started this project before the date of that post, and had not seen it.
Though we certainly think you do have good ideas, as we did something kind of similar!


Secondly, as we have said previously, we didn't distribute coins to all "Addresses".

Addresses that you create inside of a bitcoin-esque client or daemon do not "exist" on the chain.
When you click "create address" that addresses exists on your computer and your computer only.
It isn't until that address has a balance, or unspent output, that it is broadcast out to the network.

In fact, it seems our distribution might have more in common with what you were arguing against and are clearly still arguing against, doesn't it?

I mean we took into account balance in an odd way, as a balance was required for us to know the address existed and we eliminated tiny dust balances before the sends.

Please, if you have a better idea of how to distribute coins evenly to the widest group of people possible, in a decentralized un-cheatable fashion:

We will gladly help you to get the data from the chains and whatever you would need to get it done!

In short, if you can do it better: Do it better.
PM us, We would be happy to help.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1002
CLAM Developer
Can you import from btc,ltc and doge wallet or only from one of those?
 Thank you.

Great question!

You can import in all three, but it will take a couple sends/transactions if you want all of the CLAMS in one wallet.

Each time you import one of the wallets, just send the coins from it to an address in one of the other wallets; until you have them all together.

JUST MAKE SURE YOU BACK-UP YOUR WALLETS!!!

Don't want to accidentally over-write or delete a wallet.dat file with coins in it!!!
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
Can you import from btc,ltc and doge wallet or only from one of those?



 Thank you.
sr. member
Activity: 826
Merit: 263
Nice the intention  to be fair and original but distribution is enough unfriendly. I lost my self on reading the Op  Undecided
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1002
CLAM Developer
the vast majority of addresses CLAMS were sent to were Bitcoin addresses due to the size of the Bitcoin chain
I don't think many bitcoin users bother with alts, and there are numerous lost bitcoin keys together with old addresses that have not been used in years.
This should mean there will be significantly less clams claimed than the total created. What number of clams do you expect to be claimed within a year.

This is absolutely true.

In fact, it is one of the WONDROUS things about this distribution.

This should essentially make it so that inflation correlates, somewhat, to growth.

I.e.  

- The more users who redeem their coins, the more coins there are in circulation. (Supply)
- The more users who redeem their coins, the more users there are in circulation. (Demand)



As to a guess about how many coins are "lost" and how many will be 'claimed' (wrong word, as they can't be not "claimed", they already control them and just don't know it yet)?

Who knows?

We don't expect the total distribution of CLAMS to be massive, especially at first.

We hope the answer to the "claimed" question is a really really really big number  Grin
Once the word gets out...

For !!!SCIENCE!!! and !!!FUN!!! Grin Grin



^^^ Please ignore the Nerd reference above.

I think its a rather smart distribution method, will spread the coins far though only a small percentage would claim the coins. Also hard to cheat after the fact.

Though as I often argue does starting distribution even matter, once you can purchase it for btc (and thus fiat) it'll all go to a few hands anyway.

Thank you  Grin

We do too  Grin
legendary
Activity: 1876
Merit: 1000
I think its a rather smart distribution method, will spread the coins far though only a small percentage would claim the coins. Also hard to cheat after the fact.

Though as I often argue does starting distribution even matter, once you can purchase it for btc (and thus fiat) it'll all go to a few hands anyway.
sr. member
Activity: 348
Merit: 250
the vast majority of addresses CLAMS were sent to were Bitcoin addresses due to the size of the Bitcoin chain

I don't think many bitcoin users bother with alts, and there are numerous lost bitcoin keys together with old addresses that have not been used in years.

This should mean there will be significantly less clams claimed than the total created. What number of clams do you expect to be claimed within a year.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1002
CLAM Developer
How do we know the dev didn't create 100 wallets with 100 addresses and send one doge coin to each address? That would give him 45 thousand clams.

The simple answer? 
You can't.

The complicated answer?
- The block chain is public record. Period.
- Penny-attack protection code is designed to prevent tiny sends.
- The chains are public record, and can be reviewed. 
- As soon we get it together, the dump data and scripts used will be public record, and can be reviewed.

And of coarse there is the fact that one might be better off just buying the darn CLAMS, when you consider all the transaction fees and dust it would cost to send a gazillion 1 coin piles any wheres.

Oh, and of coarse I think user xploited brought up an interesting point as well, any size-able portion of CLAMS would either cost a small fortune to send out in the Bitcoin chain (because of penny attack protections) or make up a massive percentage of all Litecoin and Dogecoin addresses in existence (as the vast majority of addresses CLAMS were sent to were Bitcoin addresses due to the size of the Bitcoin chain).
sr. member
Activity: 348
Merit: 250
How do we know the dev didn't create 100 wallets with 100 addresses and send one doge coin to each address? That would give him 45 thousand clams.
hero member
Activity: 573
Merit: 500
A chance to be;  Strange alt of the week  Cheesy
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1002
CLAM Developer
Amusing idea, but the OP needs to make clear how the coins are distributed.
~4CLAM are given for each unique txout, unique address, or by balance?  If it's by txout, then this is a HUGE scam... If it's by address, then this is a HUGE scam...  Why?  Because anyone who designed this coin and had half a brain would have split up a million Doge into a million wallets, and had 4 million clams...
---
When importing, the debug.log shows a LOT of exceptions being throw:
Code:
******* exception encountered *******
ERROR: CTransaction::CheckTransaction() : txout.nValue too high
******* exception encountered *******
ERROR: CTransaction::CheckTransaction() : txout.nValue negative
******* exception encountered *******
******* exception encountered *******
(This goes on for pages).  Something buggy happening during the import scans?
Did you run -salvagewallet during the first load? Otherwise your wallet.dat will hold tx information for invalid tx's, thus the "too high" and "negative" errors i suspect.
Also I was wondering about the dogecoin make a million address thing myself. While still costing a good amount in fee's, especially if you wanted to try to redeem those 1M 1 dogecoin addresses, you'd stand to gain more if things were to take off.
If everything is correct I believe the majority of the address's must have came from the bitcoin blockchain. I say this because according to what Im seeing there are not enough addresses with positive values on the other chains. Keep in mind the block chains I'm parsing would not be in sync with the blockchains that the clam devs used so this is currently just a guestement at best.  
Ive been playing around with the one of the block chain parser and Bitcoin has currently over 2.7M addresses with balances above 0, which would be the majority of the ~3.1M Clams addresses distributed too. I don't claim to the accuracy of said parser I used but I checked a few of my addresses in the list and the balances were correct.  
If thats true, which intuition based on observation is suggesting is, that only leaves ~400k addresses between Litecoin and Dogecoin. I've yet to parse their blockchains but if the numbers on there chains are correct Litecoin and Dogecoin only add up to ~400k of the ~3.1M.
It would seem the majority of the coins went to Bitcoin holders.
I'm working on a script to test that, convert the address back to ripemd160 -> back to bitcoin and then see if it was a used address on blockchain.com
I'd be happy to provide the script for anyone interested, although I warn you, its in Go.
Edit: Clam Devs, the source used to create the original send would be very helpful as the current block-chains will be out of sync and not provide an accurate picture

Your both right!
Well, your both PARTIALLY right, and wrong Tongue

First, the errors in the first quote: ERROR: CTransaction::CheckTransaction() .....

These are precisely the type of errors one would likely get if they attempted to import a wallet.dat file into CLAMS without the --salvagewallet command.  A wallet file contains much more than simply the privateKeys, and this extra meta-data (which doesn't exist in the CLAMS chain) causes a bit of fuss if without the above argument.



~4CLAM are given for each unique txout, unique address, or by balance?  If it's by txout, then this is a HUGE scam... If it's by address, then this is a HUGE scam...

We expected this type of response from the outset of the project. We don't blame folks, who have a huge balance of Bitcoin, Litecoin, or Dogecoin, for being a bit upset and Angry that we didn't base the CLAM network sends on their balance.  Afterall, you DESERVE more CLAMS, yes?

There is a small problem with the above statement, however.  You don't.  Sorry  Cry  
If you have a very large balance in Bitcoin, Litecoin, or Dogecoin you absolutely DO deserve all the Bitcoin, Litecoin, and Dogecoin you've earned!  

Accruing Crypto is a tough business!  But that does not entitle you to a larger share of CLAMS, unfortunately.

FACT: Our first proto-type of the data dumps from the Bitcoin, Litecoin, and Dogecoin chains were based on balance.
FACT: It was a horrible idea.
FACT: The U.S. Government currently controls over 213,000 Bitcoin THAT WE KNOW ABOUT.
FACT: The top 100 Addresses in Bitcoin control around 15~20% of all Bitcoin in existence.
FACT: The top 100 Addresses in Litecoin control around 40-50% of all Litecoin in existence.
FACT: The top 100 Addresses in Dogecoin control around 40-50% of all Dogecoin in existence.

The entire concept behind CLAMS was to distribute as many coins as possible to AS MANY PEOPLE as possible, given the astounding data resource of the block chain.

The entire concept behind CLAMS was NOT to distribute as many coins as possible to AS FEW PEOPLE as possible, given the above concentration of currency in the existing chains.

In fact, that imbalance of wealth in the existing chains is likely the primary REASON and SEED of the idea for CLAMS itself.

So, despite the fact that some users, who have very large balances in the original Bitcoin, Litecoin, Dogecoin chains, might not agree - we are sorry.  We're not giving you all of the CLAMS just because you own all of the Bitcoin, Litecoin, and Dogecoin.  Sorry  Cry Cry Cry

We also, however, didn't exclude you (despite the fact that we did initially consider hand-picking and eliminating addresses with extremely large balances).

Finally, xploited is correct:
We didn't hand-pick or edit the data from dumps WHATSOEVER.  The data from the dumps and Bitcoin, Litecoin, Dogecoin block chains was taken verbatim without any edits, dust was eliminated, duplication was eliminated, and pubKeys were converted to the CLAMS network.

Simply by being so much larger, and more developed, this does mean that a very large majority of the addresses were Bitcoin addresses.
Without doing some conversion I don't know the exact number, but I think xploited's math is pretty darn close.  

Roughly 85~90% from Bitcoin and the remaining from Litecoin and Dogecoin sounds about right.

We didn't exclude anything from Litecoin and Dogecoin, Bitcoin is just that much bigger.

Cheers!

Final Note:
Let us clean up the code (Wasn't commented and was never meant to be seen by others) in our scripts, and we will release the scripts and such in the near future  Grin
We intended to eventually do so anyways Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 304
Merit: 252
CLAM Dev
Amusing idea, but the OP needs to make clear how the coins are distributed.

~4CLAM are given for each unique txout, unique address, or by balance?  If it's by txout, then this is a HUGE scam... If it's by address, then this is a HUGE scam...  Why?  Because anyone who designed this coin and had half a brain would have split up a million Doge into a million wallets, and had 4 million clams...

---

When importing, the debug.log shows a LOT of exceptions being throw:
Code:
******* exception encountered *******
ERROR: CTransaction::CheckTransaction() : txout.nValue too high

******* exception encountered *******
ERROR: CTransaction::CheckTransaction() : txout.nValue negative

******* exception encountered *******

******* exception encountered *******
(This goes on for pages).  Something buggy happening during the import scans?

Did you run -salvagewallet during the first load? Otherwise your wallet.dat will hold tx information for invalid tx's, thus the "too high" and "negative" errors i suspect.

Also I was wondering about the dogecoin make a million address thing myself. While still costing a good amount in fee's, especially if you wanted to try to redeem those 1M 1 dogecoin addresses, you'd stand to gain more if things were to take off.  
 
If everything is correct I believe the majority of the address's must have came from the bitcoin blockchain. I say this because according to what Im seeing there are not enough addresses with positive values on the other chains. Keep in mind the block chains I'm parsing would not be in sync with the blockchains that the clam devs used so this is currently just a guestement at best.  

Ive been playing around with the one of the block chain parser and Bitcoin has currently over 2.7M addresses with balances above 0, which would be the majority of the ~3.1M Clams addresses distributed too. I don't claim to the accuracy of said parser I used but I checked a few of my addresses in the list and the balances were correct.  

If thats true, which intuition based on observation is suggesting is, that only leaves ~400k addresses between Litecoin and Dogecoin. I've yet to parse their blockchains but if the numbers on there chains are correct Litecoin and Dogecoin only add up to ~400k of the ~3.1M.

It would seem the majority of the coins went to Bitcoin holders.

I'm working on a script to test that, convert the address back to ripemd160 -> back to bitcoin and then see if it was a used address on blockchain.com

I'd be happy to provide the script for anyone interested, although I warn you, its in Go.

Edit: Clam Devs, the source used to create the original send would be very helpful as the current block-chains will be out of sync and not provide an accurate picture

hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
Amusing idea, but the OP needs to make clear how the coins are distributed.

~4CLAM are given for each unique txout, unique address, or by balance?  If it's by txout, then this is a HUGE scam... If it's by address, then this is a HUGE scam...  Why?  Because anyone who designed this coin and had half a brain would have split up a million Doge into a million wallets, and had 4 million clams...

---

When importing, the debug.log shows a LOT of exceptions being throw:
Code:
******* exception encountered *******
ERROR: CTransaction::CheckTransaction() : txout.nValue too high

******* exception encountered *******
ERROR: CTransaction::CheckTransaction() : txout.nValue negative

******* exception encountered *******

******* exception encountered *******
(This goes on for pages).  Something buggy happening during the import scans?
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
You can vote to add CLAM to ShareXcoin: https://sharexcoin.com/votings?coin=CLAM

Trading fee only 0.1%. Profit shared between FeeShare holders.

hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1002
CLAM Developer
So!  We took the Bitcoin, Litecoin, and Dogecoin block chains, found every address(PubKey) with a balance above dust, and sent each and every one of them a little over ~4.6 CLAMS each.  It isn't perfect, but it includes everyone.

You sure you guys did it this way? (Well its easily tested to see if you did it this way).

Not sure how else one could go about it.

We used open source tools to parse the block chains and retrieve all unspent outputs will balances over the dust limit.




In other news,

Please Welcome AGX.io to the CLAM Community Smiley

I am certain everyone will welcome a place to buy more CLAMS!
Their consideration of CLAMS is greatly appreciated Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 265
Merit: 250
So!  We took the Bitcoin, Litecoin, and Dogecoin block chains, found every address(PubKey) with a balance above dust, and sent each and every one of them a little over ~4.6 CLAMS each.  It isn't perfect, but it includes everyone.

You sure you guys did it this way? (Well its easily tested to see if you did it this way).
sr. member
Activity: 265
Merit: 250
crash then "warning error reading wallet.dat" is all I get  Huh

Thanks for taking the time to give it a go Smiley

Could you please check that you started the client with the --salvagewallet argument?

ok got it workin had missed a space in commandline  Embarrassed
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1002
CLAM Developer
crash then "warning error reading wallet.dat" is all I get  Huh

Thanks for taking the time to give it a go Smiley

Could you please check that you started the client with the --salvagewallet argument?
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