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Topic: [ANN][DCR] Decred - Community Governance | Bitcoin Devs | Lightning Network - page 70. (Read 1201396 times)

legendary
Activity: 2898
Merit: 1823

Great stuff, thanks for posting the links.

Quote
Decred has continued with its approach of generating deliverables before hyping them, despite many other projects in the space continuing to relentlessly hype their work far in advance of generating deliverables or focusing on exchange listings in lieu of doing any substantive work.

That reminds me of Dash and the urban legend about its Evolution vaporware!  Cheesy

Plus look! There are people dumping their coins, not wanting them anymore. Are they dirty? There's only one move to do. Buy the dip and scoop them up! Hahaha.

When will they learn? They don't see anything good even if it's right there in front of them.  Lips sealed
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

Great stuff, thanks for posting the links.

Quote
Decred has continued with its approach of generating deliverables before hyping them, despite many other projects in the space continuing to relentlessly hype their work far in advance of generating deliverables or focusing on exchange listings in lieu of doing any substantive work.

That reminds me of Dash and the urban legend about its Evolution vaporware!  Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 1164
Merit: 1010

So, for the block validity question: that's done programmatically. Yes, PoS votes get the final say if a block is valid or not. This isn't something that someone running the node has to actually make a decision on for every single block. There is logic which can be defined such that if certain preconditions for a block are met, you as the PoS miner will "choose" not to include it. Also, I'm pretty sure you still get a vote reward even if the block doesn't become part of the main chain (someone correct me if I'm wrong).


OK. But if it's done programmatically and the rules are the same for all nodes, shouldn't they all always vote the same? I mean all 5 (I think it's 5 per block) voters would be expected to have yes or no on the block. Is it possible to have a split decision, like 3 to 2 votes? If yes, how is that possible unless the voters follow different rules?

If your ticket is called on a block and that block gets orphaned, you lose the reward (as the block is simply not in the chain). The ticket gets refunded of course. I recently noticed it happen on my local staking wallet, unless I misinterpreted what I saw.

I assume that blocks rejected due to PoS voting become orphan.

The important thing to note: the code is open source. The scenario would be something like: user pulls down the source, makes some edits that would allow them to do (x,y,z), and then they build that code and run it on their node. Now their consensus rules might be different from the typical user: thus other voters might decide to not include transactions broadcasted by that "bad actor" node in the blockchain.

Otherwise, yes, the assumption is, all nodes come to the same consensus on the validity of a given block. That's only the "rule" though, there could be exceptions. Generally in the blockchain world, "consensus" means >50% of the nodes agree on the validity of a given block.

I'm pretty sure you get PoS reward as long as your ticket is called to vote. Whether or not the block is valid is a separate matter. This already happens in Ethereum, for instance. Orphaned blocks (Uncles) pay out a smaller block reward to the miner that solved the block, but they still pay out.
member
Activity: 323
Merit: 19
i have read some page's about DCR but how is the POS part working , you need to buy a ticket before you can stake? , and if how much DCR for a ticket?

wish i had bought some earlier

You can find all stats here:
https://dcrstats.com/

Current ticket price is 83.96 DCR
jr. member
Activity: 41
Merit: 1
member
Activity: 291
Merit: 10
i have read some page's about DCR but how is the POS part working , you need to buy a ticket before you can stake? , and if how much DCR for a ticket?

wish i had bought some earlier
sr. member
Activity: 409
Merit: 250

So, for the block validity question: that's done programmatically. Yes, PoS votes get the final say if a block is valid or not. This isn't something that someone running the node has to actually make a decision on for every single block. There is logic which can be defined such that if certain preconditions for a block are met, you as the PoS miner will "choose" not to include it. Also, I'm pretty sure you still get a vote reward even if the block doesn't become part of the main chain (someone correct me if I'm wrong).


OK. But if it's done programmatically and the rules are the same for all nodes, shouldn't they all always vote the same? I mean all 5 (I think it's 5 per block) voters would be expected to have yes or no on the block. Is it possible to have a split decision, like 3 to 2 votes? If yes, how is that possible unless the voters follow different rules?

If your ticket is called on a block and that block gets orphaned, you lose the reward (as the block is simply not in the chain). The ticket gets refunded of course. I recently noticed it happen on my local staking wallet, unless I misinterpreted what I saw.

I assume that blocks rejected due to PoS voting become orphan.
sr. member
Activity: 882
Merit: 252
What is the latest full wallet for Windows? Is that Decredition now? I used to have the Paymetheus wallet before
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
How exactly do I decide what blocks are valid when voting? Why would I want to vote any block as being not valid? Not to mention that putting a "no" vote in a block I am called to vote would result (if the no prevails) in the block becoming orphan and therefore no stake reward for the ticket.

Also the whole voting/staking system is automatic. My tickets are called to vote and they do. I never choose any yes or no for the blocks, I don't even know how. I only know how to vote for other stuff when available, like the lightning network or ticket price algorithm change.

Finally, with staking pools active and used by most, you could argue that staking is also quite centralized.

I have thoroughly read the Decred Documentation https://docs.decred.org/ and could not find anything describing how to vote "yes" or "no" on individual blocks. I only found how voting works on forks - https://docs.decred.org/getting-started/user-guides/agenda-voting/. I do think this can be done algorithmically as IncludeBeer said. However the voters still receive their block subsidy even if the majority vote "no" on a block. This is because the subsidy is given whenever a voting ticket is selected to vote. The PoW and dev subsidy are lost though and any regular transactions within that block are invalidated as stated in the Decred Constitution near the bottom of the Blockchain Governance section - https://docs.decred.org/getting-started/constitution/.

You set your voting preference to "Yes", "No", or "Abstain" anytime after buying a ticket. Abstain is the default until you change it. Explained here  https://docs.decred.org/getting-started/user-guides/agenda-voting/ under Voting Preparation.

Staking pools do make the staking in Decred more centralized compared to other PoS coins but the combination of mining with staking makes Decred's consensus method more decentralized overall.

I figured it out the other day, all the info is in the documentation on the website. When your in the decredetion wallet, you go to the ticket section. So click on the right side where it says ticket below transcations and stuff and the first thing that will pop up is the section where you actually buy a ticket, at the top there is i think 4 tabs, one says my tickets the other goverance, and statistics. Click on the governance tab and it will show whats being voted on. click on that, should be a little 3 dot icon or something, and once you do that you can set your vote to one of three options. Yes, No or abstain. Automatically set to abstain unless you chose yes or no. Hope this helps
member
Activity: 161
Merit: 11
How exactly do I decide what blocks are valid when voting? Why would I want to vote any block as being not valid? Not to mention that putting a "no" vote in a block I am called to vote would result (if the no prevails) in the block becoming orphan and therefore no stake reward for the ticket.

Also the whole voting/staking system is automatic. My tickets are called to vote and they do. I never choose any yes or no for the blocks, I don't even know how. I only know how to vote for other stuff when available, like the lightning network or ticket price algorithm change.

Finally, with staking pools active and used by most, you could argue that staking is also quite centralized.

I have thoroughly read the Decred Documentation https://docs.decred.org/ and could not find anything describing how to vote "yes" or "no" on individual blocks. I only found how voting works on forks - https://docs.decred.org/getting-started/user-guides/agenda-voting/. I do think this can be done algorithmically as IncludeBeer said. However the voters still receive their block subsidy even if the majority vote "no" on a block. This is because the subsidy is given whenever a voting ticket is selected to vote. The PoW and dev subsidy are lost though and any regular transactions within that block are invalidated as stated in the Decred Constitution near the bottom of the Blockchain Governance section - https://docs.decred.org/getting-started/constitution/.

You set your voting preference to "Yes", "No", or "Abstain" anytime after buying a ticket. Abstain is the default until you change it. Explained here  https://docs.decred.org/getting-started/user-guides/agenda-voting/ under Voting Preparation.

Staking pools do make the staking in Decred more centralized compared to other PoS coins but the combination of mining with staking makes Decred's consensus method more decentralized overall.
legendary
Activity: 1164
Merit: 1010

But the beauty of Decred is the hybrid block validation where stakers have the final say in validating mined blocks. This maintains decentralization while keeping the security of a network with more hash power. I can only see Asics as a good thing for the future of Decred.

How exactly do I decide what blocks are valid when voting? Why would I want to vote any block as being not valid? Not to mention that putting a "no" vote in a block I am called to vote would result (if the no prevails) in the block becoming orphan and therefore no stake reward for the ticket.

Also the whole voting/staking system is automatic. My tickets are called to vote and they do. I never choose any yes or no for the blocks, I don't even know how. I only know how to vote for other stuff when available, like the lightning network or ticket price algorithm change.

Finally, with staking pools active and used by most, you could argue that staking is also quite centralized.

I would like to know this as well. On the Decredition wallet, I don't see any option to vote "No" on a block.



Let's not mix things up. OP asked how to decide on the validity of a block. You're asking how to issue a "no" vote.

So, for the block validity question: that's done programmatically. Yes, PoS votes get the final say if a block is valid or not. This isn't something that someone running the node has to actually make a decision on for every single block. There is logic which can be defined such that if certain preconditions for a block are met, you as the PoS miner will "choose" not to include it. Also, I'm pretty sure you still get a vote reward even if the block doesn't become part of the main chain (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

Voting "no" is different. Once we things to vote on, you'll see in the wallet your vote options. Typically, your options are: yes, no, or abstain. Just so it's clear: this isn't voting on a block, this is voting on an improvement proposal.

Pro resource: https://voting.decred.org/  Grin
legendary
Activity: 2184
Merit: 1028
#mitandopelomundo

I would like to know this as well. On the Decredition wallet, I don't see any option to vote "No" on a block.




Because no voting is happening right now.

legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1183
Quick reminder that Dcrstats Evolution is closing.

Please follow the instructions in your personal profiles and save auto withdrawal address.

https://evolution.dcrstats.com/

All deposits and ticket purchases are disabled. Do not send funds, but withdraw them Wink
No worries thou, the service will be live at least 12 months longer, there will be more than enough time to withdraw 100% of your funds.
Please use auto withdrawal feature to make this process fast and smooth.

Somebody answer my question.
If I changed the address of the transaction in decrediton to a new one. Will my decreds come to me when they are unblocked by https://evolution.dcrstats.com ? (the first address was delivered to the automatic withdraw)
member
Activity: 115
Merit: 10

But the beauty of Decred is the hybrid block validation where stakers have the final say in validating mined blocks. This maintains decentralization while keeping the security of a network with more hash power. I can only see Asics as a good thing for the future of Decred.

How exactly do I decide what blocks are valid when voting? Why would I want to vote any block as being not valid? Not to mention that putting a "no" vote in a block I am called to vote would result (if the no prevails) in the block becoming orphan and therefore no stake reward for the ticket.

Also the whole voting/staking system is automatic. My tickets are called to vote and they do. I never choose any yes or no for the blocks, I don't even know how. I only know how to vote for other stuff when available, like the lightning network or ticket price algorithm change.

Finally, with staking pools active and used by most, you could argue that staking is also quite centralized.

I would like to know this as well. On the Decredition wallet, I don't see any option to vote "No" on a block.

sr. member
Activity: 588
Merit: 251
EVOS
How many I read about this coin, that community praises only it. Last year probably there was the only opportunity to buy coins very cheap and still these coins distributed free of charge to everyone at the beginning. It is put on an equal basis together with btc and monero. Will survive tell when other coins die, a reliable asset some kind of.
hero member
Activity: 1666
Merit: 565
I had heard a lot about Decred and never looked into it that much. Definitely wish I would have sooner. It honestly sounds too good to be true but the proof is in the pudding.

- Many coins will start PoW and then switch to PoS but Decred is the only one I know of that is a PoW/PoS hybrid and plans to stay that way, making it arguably the most democratic and for-the-people coin around as well as
  one of the most secure.

- The governance model is unmatched. The method of suggesting changes to the network and then validating or rejecting those changes is straightforward and sensible.

- The dev team is unreal. I haven't found a team with these credentials outside of the top 20 marketcap, and there are teams within the top 20 that aren't nearly as good.
 
- The dev fund from each block allows all of those skilled devs to continue working on Decred as long as the coin maintains a decent value, and based on what I've seen I think that will be true for the foreseeable future. One
  risk is that miners and stakers are less incentivized to maintain the network but that does not seem to be an issue.

These were the big takeaways that got me excited about this project. I hope this will get others to check it out as well.

i totally agree with you man. I've holding my decred since few months right now, and even if i am in little lost, i'm not worried at all.
Just look at how this thread is alive!

Anyway, can i ask you what do you think about the incoming asics arrive?

Generally I think Asics being made for a coin is a good thing in terms of network security but a bad thing for decentralization. The hash rate of the network will increase making the network more secure. But Asics are much more costly so mining power will be more centralized to those that can afford them.

But the beauty of Decred is the hybrid block validation where stakers have the final say in validating mined blocks. This maintains decentralization while keeping the security of a network with more hash power. I can only see Asics as a good thing for the future of Decred.

just to know, sorry for the noob question, was there any coin in the past that become (after a while) asics minable in crypto history? what happened to that coin?
full member
Activity: 356
Merit: 100
This is too difficult to understand the scheme of work, I think this will not find wide distribution and use in a large number of people
legendary
Activity: 2184
Merit: 1028
#mitandopelomundo
Quick reminder that Dcrstats Evolution is closing.

Please follow the instructions in your personal profiles and save auto withdrawal address.

https://evolution.dcrstats.com/

All deposits and ticket purchases are disabled. Do not send funds, but withdraw them Wink
No worries thou, the service will be live at least 12 months longer, there will be more than enough time to withdraw 100% of your funds.
Please use auto withdrawal feature to make this process fast and smooth.

Bummer ... thanks for the memories!

Any other options for decred staking for non tech people, or is it time to setup my own node and learn how to buy tickets etc  ?

Just use decrediton wallet, is very easy
sr. member
Activity: 756
Merit: 268
Quick reminder that Dcrstats Evolution is closing.

Please follow the instructions in your personal profiles and save auto withdrawal address.

https://evolution.dcrstats.com/

All deposits and ticket purchases are disabled. Do not send funds, but withdraw them Wink
No worries thou, the service will be live at least 12 months longer, there will be more than enough time to withdraw 100% of your funds.
Please use auto withdrawal feature to make this process fast and smooth.

Bummer ... thanks for the memories!

Any other options for decred staking for non tech people, or is it time to setup my own node and learn how to buy tickets etc  ?
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