Wallets v2.0 for Windows, Mac and Linux are expected to be released on February 15 at the electraproject.org website.
You can learn how to upgrade your wallet by reading the guide created by Jenova:
https://github.com/Electra-project/electra-core/blob/master/Fork%20Phase%202%20-%20Guide.pdf
Topic: [ANN][ECA] Electra ⚡ | POS 3.0e | Super Rewards Bonanza - page 23. (Read 144299 times)
3,34% premine but forget to mention the "Super Rewards Bonanza"
can an Electra foundation member or dev give us the exact number of ECA that was mined in that bonanza period?
Also, how soon was this "Bonanza" period after creation of the blockchain?
thanks
can an Electra foundation member or dev give us the exact number of ECA that was mined in that bonanza period?
Also, how soon was this "Bonanza" period after creation of the blockchain?
thanks
Already they mentioned in the twitter how much coins they got through this stage of premise. So we will get update from team regarding the distribution and the process in the coming days.
Yea, premine was 3.34% but I want to know when the bonanza period started and how much ECA was mined during that 24 hours
The bonanza was publicly announced the same day Electra was launched. The bonanza happened about two months after Electra was launched. 18,999,999,936 ECA was mined during the bonanza and it was open to all.
3,34% premine but forget to mention the "Super Rewards Bonanza"
can an Electra foundation member or dev give us the exact number of ECA that was mined in that bonanza period?
Also, how soon was this "Bonanza" period after creation of the blockchain?
thanks
can an Electra foundation member or dev give us the exact number of ECA that was mined in that bonanza period?
Also, how soon was this "Bonanza" period after creation of the blockchain?
thanks
Already they mentioned in the twitter how much coins they got through this stage of premise. So we will get update from team regarding the distribution and the process in the coming days.
Yea, premine was 3.34% but I want to know when the bonanza period started and how much ECA was mined during that 24 hours
you have history (number and date) looking at the first posts of the profile electra01
3,34% premine but forget to mention the "Super Rewards Bonanza"
can an Electra foundation member or dev give us the exact number of ECA that was mined in that bonanza period?
Also, how soon was this "Bonanza" period after creation of the blockchain?
thanks
can an Electra foundation member or dev give us the exact number of ECA that was mined in that bonanza period?
Also, how soon was this "Bonanza" period after creation of the blockchain?
thanks
Already they mentioned in the twitter how much coins they got through this stage of premise. So we will get update from team regarding the distribution and the process in the coming days.
Yea, premine was 3.34% but I want to know when the bonanza period started and how much ECA was mined during that 24 hours
3,34% premine but forget to mention the "Super Rewards Bonanza"
can an Electra foundation member or dev give us the exact number of ECA that was mined in that bonanza period?
Also, how soon was this "Bonanza" period after creation of the blockchain?
thanks
can an Electra foundation member or dev give us the exact number of ECA that was mined in that bonanza period?
Also, how soon was this "Bonanza" period after creation of the blockchain?
thanks
Already they mentioned in the twitter how much coins they got through this stage of premise. So we will get update from team regarding the distribution and the process in the coming days.
3,34% premine but forget to mention the "Super Rewards Bonanza"
can an Electra foundation member or dev give us the exact number of ECA that was mined in that bonanza period?
Also, how soon was this "Bonanza" period after creation of the blockchain?
thanks
can an Electra foundation member or dev give us the exact number of ECA that was mined in that bonanza period?
Also, how soon was this "Bonanza" period after creation of the blockchain?
thanks
Dear Stakeholders,
31,500,000 ECA has been transferred from the pre-mine in order to pay for development obligations involving the upcoming fork.
Will this amount be deducted from the 200m that's scheduled to be transferred to the Foundation this week?31,500,000 ECA has been transferred from the pre-mine in order to pay for development obligations involving the upcoming fork.
On the Foundation...I was under the impression they would be providing some kind of accounting for the funds. To date, they've already spent about 14,000,000, or approx 13% of their initial funds (100m from you, 5m from donation wallet), with no accounting for it, at least not publicly as they'd claimed.
They also said they'd be posting minutes from their meetings, which they've also failed to do.
This lack of transparency or accountibility is really concerning. They've been set up for over 3 months now, so the excuse that it's "new" I don't think is valid anymore.
I think you should reconsider sending any additional funds to the Foundation until such time as they can account for their spending and supply meeting minutes.
By all accounts, you are more transparent than the Foundation, and the premine would be better off in your hands.
A) they have no real foundation control and it's all a front for someone else actually controlling the funds,
B) they're unprofessional, disorganized, & haven't been keeping track, or
C) they've transferred funds secretly and gotten caught
I can't think of one good, valid reason why Robert himself wouldn't know how much has been spent.
The 31.5 million will not be deducted.
The foundation statutes state that financial reports will be provided within two months of the end of the fiscal year (in their case December 31).
My team has asked me to share the image below with you. It is still in development but should provide the transparency you are looking for when released.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/417467913168224256/539479418486390795/unknown.png
Dear community,
I commented on Discord that we're working on an integrated explorer on the new website where everyone can keep track of the transactions. All transactions so far have been explained and made public on Bitcointalk.
For now I'd like to refer to the screenshot E01 shared which shows the expenses we had until now.
On a sidenote I do realise that I'm now responding an account that has questionable motivations of bringing the project in a bad light. Nonetheless I want to stipulate to each and everyone who reads this that all identities of the board members are publically known (unless most individuals in the crypto space or even in this thread). Also we spend our time and energy free of payment in making the project a success.
So to recap, please be a bit more patient until the foundation page on the website is updated so you can proactively find the answers to your questions/accusations.
Other then that I want to use this opportunity to thank E01 for giving the community and the project team the possibility to manage and use part of the premine. It testifies of great faith in people you have never met before and were, up until 2017, complete strangers.
End of message and on behalf of the foundation board,
Robert Bakker
https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertsebastianbakker/
I ask these questions out of concern for the project. It's called diligence, not FUD.
You yourself claimed in the past in Discord that meeting minutes and accounting would be available once the website was live. It's now live, and still nothing is available. As you've intimated, almost all answers are available if one looks hard enough... except for anything related to the Foundation. It would take 5 minutes to post minutes in Discord. 30 seconds to post big expenses. Since the Foundation was formed in October, I don't think it's at all unreasonable to expect some kind of progress report, minutes, or accounting, even if the volunteers are all part time.
I think I spend 30% of my time on people who have questions. Some are critical some are not critical and I always answer them. Sometimes I have the answer, sometimes not. I believe critical quesitons posed with a constructive attitude are necessary for a project team to stay sharp. Therefore I will always respond to them
If you scroll back everyone can see that whenever I take the time to respond to your or Lightinout's comments I respond with facts and answers, yet.. I get no feedback on my responses but another can of worms if being opened until facts and answers close these, and so on.
These questions, conclusions and even accusations have a repetitive and negative character and in my opinion don't add value to the project (opinions are there to be debated). As such I consider you and Lightinout as exceptions to the rule outlined in my first alinea and therefore I spend somewhat less time to the two of you.
On topic, the foundation expenses are visible and shared here on Bitcointalk until they will be shown on the foundations page on our brand new website.
I wish you the best.
It's been 5 months since I posted any questions, at which time I thanked you for your answers and professionalism.
That's obviously changed based on the aggressive responses you're giving this time. If answering my questions takes 30% of your time, it just demonstrates how little time you actually have to commit to the project.
Calling for people on Discord to, and I quote you "Suffocate fudders with love and respect." in order to bury valid concerns and questions about funds being moved from the wallet and lack of transparency from the Foundation is literally getting the community to pull the wool over their own eyes.
You've said s couple of times now that the expenses are posted on bitcointalk. E01's, yes. Consistently and timely. The Foundation's, no. Not until E01 posted the spreadsheet AFTER I asked why 13% of the funds had already been spent with no accounting. The very question that got any kind of accounting from the Foundation posted on bitcointalk you dismiss as FUD. (You have an inaccuracy Dec 6 by the way... There's an additional 5.4 million that was sent out that's unaccounted for). You yourself denied on Discord yesterday that over 14m has already been spent, which means YOU didn't even know until I asked.
You are literally making false accusations and talking in circles in the hopes of diverting the community's attention away from the real issues, concerns, and questions.
Answering questions in a direct, factual manner as E01 does in far more professional, and will result in far less replies from concerned community members trying to defend themselves against your false accusations of just trying to create FUD.
About the 5.4 million u say is unaccountable for, please do read this article --> https://medium.com/@electrictrippy/electra-foundation-funds-coin-control-e05bb2534268 it will give you a basic understanding of blockchain and how transactions are handled. The article is written based on the foundations wallet actually.
E01 is indeed very timely with posting on bitcointalk. The fact that we are building the page on on the website is that bitcointalk can be a mess. This fact is stated as you say 13% is spend without accounting. It is me that is posting when big transactions are made. please search back message here with my name: Altfeeder. FYI i'm Bob van Egeraat, the chairman. This i say to make it more clear to you why i post these message. So the funds are not unaccounted for when you search. But point is made, we are switching to the website with our transaction oversight, so this cannot occur any more.
Also, the foundation board, as per our statutes, should meet and vote once per quarter (this is quite normal for a foundation). As the landscape of crypto is very dynamic, we already noticed we sometimes have to have a non sheduled meeting. And make rather quick decisions because of this. It can be a payment that has to be voted upon, contracts that need to be discussed/signed. Meetings with exchanges or other projects for further developments or as a new partner.
To give you a clear explanation on how our (the board) decisions are mostly driven is that a community member (usually a core team) comes to us in need of something. We cannot wait 1 or 2 or even 3 months with a decision, so we shedule an 'official' voting round so we come to conclusion on a matter and vote. It is not that this happens daily as you also will understand, most of our time goes to talking/discussing with other projects and some exchanges for cooperation. The core team is the the team that (mostly, can also be a community member) comes with ideas, leads etc. and the board is there to vote yes or no.
furthermore, explaining (in detail) all expenses to our community does not make full sense, a little bit of trust on a transaction like the aircoins one (the last one) can be expected from the community towards us imo. All transactions are open to see and by the end of the week all transactions will be live on the website with a short explanation. Also be sure that the dutch tax office is not to play with on that matter, as foundation we have 100% tax exemption, be sure we will have to account for every transaction Do remind yourself of the fact that Raymond, Robert and I are members of a foundation and will be held accountable by Dutch law if we make malicious or not accounted for transactions. Believe me when I say I worry more about getting all transactions, be it FIAT or crypto, in 100% order, then you concern about a 5.4 million transaction (that is actually accounted for as you will probably understand now).
If you have question, contact me on discord.
Regards Bob
Honestly, malicious transactions weren't as much my worry as losing track was. As an "outsider", I have no idea what's going on, who's doing what, what's spent, etc. It really raised a red flag for me when Robert himself didn't appear to know. My worry went from "they're spending a lot, quickly, and no idea what for" to "is anyone even keeping track or monitoring?"
I'm happy to hear that it will all be available on the website this week.
Thank you for all your time and effort.
No problem, I'm here to answer those questions. As you read back my message here on bitcointalk, you'll see the biggest protion of the 13% was due to reimbursment of a wallet bug that was in the desktop wallet. There will be one more later on, about 300K. We know it as quit an extensive amount that is being repayed to community members who lost there funds. But the board, core team and user support, that investigated the bug, founded that we should reimburse these people.
Indeed 'short' clear explanations will be used. If there are really large numbers transfered in the future, ofcourse we will give a more clear explanation about it.
Thank you again for your help.
hmm.. I have been looking at my own spreadsheet from the wallet, the online spreadsheet that is on my test server, the image of the spreadsheet that was posted here, the message i made here regarding the payout and the blockexplorer.
I have a clue on where you think it doesn't hold up, be i'm not sure. I do think you mean when you look at the explorer and see the transactions, you also see a strange '4.49M ECa'transaction right? (you can check the transaction here https://www.electraexplorer.com/tx/677727393743cb1418ed03e480503cd8934b5ae9fc0c814ee882128868e51791 ) If this is what you mean, i do get that this can be strange. If this is the problem, i would like to refer you again to the article i've posted some comments above this one (it's a medium article). In this article, 2 community members and me try to explain this phenomenon. If you start following that adress, you should see it's send back to the foundation wallet later on.
If you notice something else that is not correct, please do notify me. A mistake is easily made when entering numbers, i try to be as carefull as i can, but if you see one, please do point it out.
Regards.
Try comparing the actual image that was shared in here to your spreadsheet to see if it is just an image problem.
[/quote]
Aaaah like that, yes it is a screenshot, i can confirm.
Dear Stakeholders,
31,500,000 ECA has been transferred from the pre-mine in order to pay for development obligations involving the upcoming fork.
Will this amount be deducted from the 200m that's scheduled to be transferred to the Foundation this week?31,500,000 ECA has been transferred from the pre-mine in order to pay for development obligations involving the upcoming fork.
On the Foundation...I was under the impression they would be providing some kind of accounting for the funds. To date, they've already spent about 14,000,000, or approx 13% of their initial funds (100m from you, 5m from donation wallet), with no accounting for it, at least not publicly as they'd claimed.
They also said they'd be posting minutes from their meetings, which they've also failed to do.
This lack of transparency or accountibility is really concerning. They've been set up for over 3 months now, so the excuse that it's "new" I don't think is valid anymore.
I think you should reconsider sending any additional funds to the Foundation until such time as they can account for their spending and supply meeting minutes.
By all accounts, you are more transparent than the Foundation, and the premine would be better off in your hands.
A) they have no real foundation control and it's all a front for someone else actually controlling the funds,
B) they're unprofessional, disorganized, & haven't been keeping track, or
C) they've transferred funds secretly and gotten caught
I can't think of one good, valid reason why Robert himself wouldn't know how much has been spent.
The 31.5 million will not be deducted.
The foundation statutes state that financial reports will be provided within two months of the end of the fiscal year (in their case December 31).
My team has asked me to share the image below with you. It is still in development but should provide the transparency you are looking for when released.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/417467913168224256/539479418486390795/unknown.png
Dear community,
I commented on Discord that we're working on an integrated explorer on the new website where everyone can keep track of the transactions. All transactions so far have been explained and made public on Bitcointalk.
For now I'd like to refer to the screenshot E01 shared which shows the expenses we had until now.
On a sidenote I do realise that I'm now responding an account that has questionable motivations of bringing the project in a bad light. Nonetheless I want to stipulate to each and everyone who reads this that all identities of the board members are publically known (unless most individuals in the crypto space or even in this thread). Also we spend our time and energy free of payment in making the project a success.
So to recap, please be a bit more patient until the foundation page on the website is updated so you can proactively find the answers to your questions/accusations.
Other then that I want to use this opportunity to thank E01 for giving the community and the project team the possibility to manage and use part of the premine. It testifies of great faith in people you have never met before and were, up until 2017, complete strangers.
End of message and on behalf of the foundation board,
Robert Bakker
https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertsebastianbakker/
I ask these questions out of concern for the project. It's called diligence, not FUD.
You yourself claimed in the past in Discord that meeting minutes and accounting would be available once the website was live. It's now live, and still nothing is available. As you've intimated, almost all answers are available if one looks hard enough... except for anything related to the Foundation. It would take 5 minutes to post minutes in Discord. 30 seconds to post big expenses. Since the Foundation was formed in October, I don't think it's at all unreasonable to expect some kind of progress report, minutes, or accounting, even if the volunteers are all part time.
I think I spend 30% of my time on people who have questions. Some are critical some are not critical and I always answer them. Sometimes I have the answer, sometimes not. I believe critical quesitons posed with a constructive attitude are necessary for a project team to stay sharp. Therefore I will always respond to them
If you scroll back everyone can see that whenever I take the time to respond to your or Lightinout's comments I respond with facts and answers, yet.. I get no feedback on my responses but another can of worms if being opened until facts and answers close these, and so on.
These questions, conclusions and even accusations have a repetitive and negative character and in my opinion don't add value to the project (opinions are there to be debated). As such I consider you and Lightinout as exceptions to the rule outlined in my first alinea and therefore I spend somewhat less time to the two of you.
On topic, the foundation expenses are visible and shared here on Bitcointalk until they will be shown on the foundations page on our brand new website.
I wish you the best.
It's been 5 months since I posted any questions, at which time I thanked you for your answers and professionalism.
That's obviously changed based on the aggressive responses you're giving this time. If answering my questions takes 30% of your time, it just demonstrates how little time you actually have to commit to the project.
Calling for people on Discord to, and I quote you "Suffocate fudders with love and respect." in order to bury valid concerns and questions about funds being moved from the wallet and lack of transparency from the Foundation is literally getting the community to pull the wool over their own eyes.
You've said s couple of times now that the expenses are posted on bitcointalk. E01's, yes. Consistently and timely. The Foundation's, no. Not until E01 posted the spreadsheet AFTER I asked why 13% of the funds had already been spent with no accounting. The very question that got any kind of accounting from the Foundation posted on bitcointalk you dismiss as FUD. (You have an inaccuracy Dec 6 by the way... There's an additional 5.4 million that was sent out that's unaccounted for). You yourself denied on Discord yesterday that over 14m has already been spent, which means YOU didn't even know until I asked.
You are literally making false accusations and talking in circles in the hopes of diverting the community's attention away from the real issues, concerns, and questions.
Answering questions in a direct, factual manner as E01 does in far more professional, and will result in far less replies from concerned community members trying to defend themselves against your false accusations of just trying to create FUD.
About the 5.4 million u say is unaccountable for, please do read this article --> https://medium.com/@electrictrippy/electra-foundation-funds-coin-control-e05bb2534268 it will give you a basic understanding of blockchain and how transactions are handled. The article is written based on the foundations wallet actually.
E01 is indeed very timely with posting on bitcointalk. The fact that we are building the page on on the website is that bitcointalk can be a mess. This fact is stated as you say 13% is spend without accounting. It is me that is posting when big transactions are made. please search back message here with my name: Altfeeder. FYI i'm Bob van Egeraat, the chairman. This i say to make it more clear to you why i post these message. So the funds are not unaccounted for when you search. But point is made, we are switching to the website with our transaction oversight, so this cannot occur any more.
Also, the foundation board, as per our statutes, should meet and vote once per quarter (this is quite normal for a foundation). As the landscape of crypto is very dynamic, we already noticed we sometimes have to have a non sheduled meeting. And make rather quick decisions because of this. It can be a payment that has to be voted upon, contracts that need to be discussed/signed. Meetings with exchanges or other projects for further developments or as a new partner.
To give you a clear explanation on how our (the board) decisions are mostly driven is that a community member (usually a core team) comes to us in need of something. We cannot wait 1 or 2 or even 3 months with a decision, so we shedule an 'official' voting round so we come to conclusion on a matter and vote. It is not that this happens daily as you also will understand, most of our time goes to talking/discussing with other projects and some exchanges for cooperation. The core team is the the team that (mostly, can also be a community member) comes with ideas, leads etc. and the board is there to vote yes or no.
furthermore, explaining (in detail) all expenses to our community does not make full sense, a little bit of trust on a transaction like the aircoins one (the last one) can be expected from the community towards us imo. All transactions are open to see and by the end of the week all transactions will be live on the website with a short explanation. Also be sure that the dutch tax office is not to play with on that matter, as foundation we have 100% tax exemption, be sure we will have to account for every transaction Do remind yourself of the fact that Raymond, Robert and I are members of a foundation and will be held accountable by Dutch law if we make malicious or not accounted for transactions. Believe me when I say I worry more about getting all transactions, be it FIAT or crypto, in 100% order, then you concern about a 5.4 million transaction (that is actually accounted for as you will probably understand now).
If you have question, contact me on discord.
Regards Bob
Honestly, malicious transactions weren't as much my worry as losing track was. As an "outsider", I have no idea what's going on, who's doing what, what's spent, etc. It really raised a red flag for me when Robert himself didn't appear to know. My worry went from "they're spending a lot, quickly, and no idea what for" to "is anyone even keeping track or monitoring?"
I'm happy to hear that it will all be available on the website this week.
Thank you for all your time and effort.
No problem, I'm here to answer those questions. As you read back my message here on bitcointalk, you'll see the biggest protion of the 13% was due to reimbursment of a wallet bug that was in the desktop wallet. There will be one more later on, about 300K. We know it as quit an extensive amount that is being repayed to community members who lost there funds. But the board, core team and user support, that investigated the bug, founded that we should reimburse these people.
Indeed 'short' clear explanations will be used. If there are really large numbers transfered in the future, ofcourse we will give a more clear explanation about it.
Thank you again for your help.
hmm.. I have been looking at my own spreadsheet from the wallet, the online spreadsheet that is on my test server, the image of the spreadsheet that was posted here, the message i made here regarding the payout and the blockexplorer.
I have a clue on where you think it doesn't hold up, be i'm not sure. I do think you mean when you look at the explorer and see the transactions, you also see a strange '4.49M ECa'transaction right? (you can check the transaction here https://www.electraexplorer.com/tx/677727393743cb1418ed03e480503cd8934b5ae9fc0c814ee882128868e51791 ) If this is what you mean, i do get that this can be strange. If this is the problem, i would like to refer you again to the article i've posted some comments above this one (it's a medium article). In this article, 2 community members and me try to explain this phenomenon. If you start following that adress, you should see it's send back to the foundation wallet later on.
If you notice something else that is not correct, please do notify me. A mistake is easily made when entering numbers, i try to be as carefull as i can, but if you see one, please do point it out.
Regards.
[/quote]
The image shared in here only shows 2 transactions on the 6th for a total of 5000 ECA. 3000 to 9th place, 2000 to 10th place. Whatever was transferred to winners 1 thru 8 isn't reflected on the spreadsheet E01 shared. It could either be a spreadsheet error, or possibly a screenshot that didn't capture the full spreadsheet image?
Try comparing the actual image that was shared in here to your spreadsheet to see if it is just an image problem.
Dear Stakeholders,
31,500,000 ECA has been transferred from the pre-mine in order to pay for development obligations involving the upcoming fork.
Will this amount be deducted from the 200m that's scheduled to be transferred to the Foundation this week?31,500,000 ECA has been transferred from the pre-mine in order to pay for development obligations involving the upcoming fork.
On the Foundation...I was under the impression they would be providing some kind of accounting for the funds. To date, they've already spent about 14,000,000, or approx 13% of their initial funds (100m from you, 5m from donation wallet), with no accounting for it, at least not publicly as they'd claimed.
They also said they'd be posting minutes from their meetings, which they've also failed to do.
This lack of transparency or accountibility is really concerning. They've been set up for over 3 months now, so the excuse that it's "new" I don't think is valid anymore.
I think you should reconsider sending any additional funds to the Foundation until such time as they can account for their spending and supply meeting minutes.
By all accounts, you are more transparent than the Foundation, and the premine would be better off in your hands.
A) they have no real foundation control and it's all a front for someone else actually controlling the funds,
B) they're unprofessional, disorganized, & haven't been keeping track, or
C) they've transferred funds secretly and gotten caught
I can't think of one good, valid reason why Robert himself wouldn't know how much has been spent.
The 31.5 million will not be deducted.
The foundation statutes state that financial reports will be provided within two months of the end of the fiscal year (in their case December 31).
My team has asked me to share the image below with you. It is still in development but should provide the transparency you are looking for when released.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/417467913168224256/539479418486390795/unknown.png
Dear community,
I commented on Discord that we're working on an integrated explorer on the new website where everyone can keep track of the transactions. All transactions so far have been explained and made public on Bitcointalk.
For now I'd like to refer to the screenshot E01 shared which shows the expenses we had until now.
On a sidenote I do realise that I'm now responding an account that has questionable motivations of bringing the project in a bad light. Nonetheless I want to stipulate to each and everyone who reads this that all identities of the board members are publically known (unless most individuals in the crypto space or even in this thread). Also we spend our time and energy free of payment in making the project a success.
So to recap, please be a bit more patient until the foundation page on the website is updated so you can proactively find the answers to your questions/accusations.
Other then that I want to use this opportunity to thank E01 for giving the community and the project team the possibility to manage and use part of the premine. It testifies of great faith in people you have never met before and were, up until 2017, complete strangers.
End of message and on behalf of the foundation board,
Robert Bakker
https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertsebastianbakker/
I ask these questions out of concern for the project. It's called diligence, not FUD.
You yourself claimed in the past in Discord that meeting minutes and accounting would be available once the website was live. It's now live, and still nothing is available. As you've intimated, almost all answers are available if one looks hard enough... except for anything related to the Foundation. It would take 5 minutes to post minutes in Discord. 30 seconds to post big expenses. Since the Foundation was formed in October, I don't think it's at all unreasonable to expect some kind of progress report, minutes, or accounting, even if the volunteers are all part time.
I think I spend 30% of my time on people who have questions. Some are critical some are not critical and I always answer them. Sometimes I have the answer, sometimes not. I believe critical quesitons posed with a constructive attitude are necessary for a project team to stay sharp. Therefore I will always respond to them
If you scroll back everyone can see that whenever I take the time to respond to your or Lightinout's comments I respond with facts and answers, yet.. I get no feedback on my responses but another can of worms if being opened until facts and answers close these, and so on.
These questions, conclusions and even accusations have a repetitive and negative character and in my opinion don't add value to the project (opinions are there to be debated). As such I consider you and Lightinout as exceptions to the rule outlined in my first alinea and therefore I spend somewhat less time to the two of you.
On topic, the foundation expenses are visible and shared here on Bitcointalk until they will be shown on the foundations page on our brand new website.
I wish you the best.
It's been 5 months since I posted any questions, at which time I thanked you for your answers and professionalism.
That's obviously changed based on the aggressive responses you're giving this time. If answering my questions takes 30% of your time, it just demonstrates how little time you actually have to commit to the project.
Calling for people on Discord to, and I quote you "Suffocate fudders with love and respect." in order to bury valid concerns and questions about funds being moved from the wallet and lack of transparency from the Foundation is literally getting the community to pull the wool over their own eyes.
You've said s couple of times now that the expenses are posted on bitcointalk. E01's, yes. Consistently and timely. The Foundation's, no. Not until E01 posted the spreadsheet AFTER I asked why 13% of the funds had already been spent with no accounting. The very question that got any kind of accounting from the Foundation posted on bitcointalk you dismiss as FUD. (You have an inaccuracy Dec 6 by the way... There's an additional 5.4 million that was sent out that's unaccounted for). You yourself denied on Discord yesterday that over 14m has already been spent, which means YOU didn't even know until I asked.
You are literally making false accusations and talking in circles in the hopes of diverting the community's attention away from the real issues, concerns, and questions.
Answering questions in a direct, factual manner as E01 does in far more professional, and will result in far less replies from concerned community members trying to defend themselves against your false accusations of just trying to create FUD.
About the 5.4 million u say is unaccountable for, please do read this article --> https://medium.com/@electrictrippy/electra-foundation-funds-coin-control-e05bb2534268 it will give you a basic understanding of blockchain and how transactions are handled. The article is written based on the foundations wallet actually.
E01 is indeed very timely with posting on bitcointalk. The fact that we are building the page on on the website is that bitcointalk can be a mess. This fact is stated as you say 13% is spend without accounting. It is me that is posting when big transactions are made. please search back message here with my name: Altfeeder. FYI i'm Bob van Egeraat, the chairman. This i say to make it more clear to you why i post these message. So the funds are not unaccounted for when you search. But point is made, we are switching to the website with our transaction oversight, so this cannot occur any more.
Also, the foundation board, as per our statutes, should meet and vote once per quarter (this is quite normal for a foundation). As the landscape of crypto is very dynamic, we already noticed we sometimes have to have a non sheduled meeting. And make rather quick decisions because of this. It can be a payment that has to be voted upon, contracts that need to be discussed/signed. Meetings with exchanges or other projects for further developments or as a new partner.
To give you a clear explanation on how our (the board) decisions are mostly driven is that a community member (usually a core team) comes to us in need of something. We cannot wait 1 or 2 or even 3 months with a decision, so we shedule an 'official' voting round so we come to conclusion on a matter and vote. It is not that this happens daily as you also will understand, most of our time goes to talking/discussing with other projects and some exchanges for cooperation. The core team is the the team that (mostly, can also be a community member) comes with ideas, leads etc. and the board is there to vote yes or no.
furthermore, explaining (in detail) all expenses to our community does not make full sense, a little bit of trust on a transaction like the aircoins one (the last one) can be expected from the community towards us imo. All transactions are open to see and by the end of the week all transactions will be live on the website with a short explanation. Also be sure that the dutch tax office is not to play with on that matter, as foundation we have 100% tax exemption, be sure we will have to account for every transaction Do remind yourself of the fact that Raymond, Robert and I are members of a foundation and will be held accountable by Dutch law if we make malicious or not accounted for transactions. Believe me when I say I worry more about getting all transactions, be it FIAT or crypto, in 100% order, then you concern about a 5.4 million transaction (that is actually accounted for as you will probably understand now).
If you have question, contact me on discord.
Regards Bob
Honestly, malicious transactions weren't as much my worry as losing track was. As an "outsider", I have no idea what's going on, who's doing what, what's spent, etc. It really raised a red flag for me when Robert himself didn't appear to know. My worry went from "they're spending a lot, quickly, and no idea what for" to "is anyone even keeping track or monitoring?"
I'm happy to hear that it will all be available on the website this week.
Thank you for all your time and effort.
No problem, I'm here to answer those questions. As you read back my message here on bitcointalk, you'll see the biggest protion of the 13% was due to reimbursment of a wallet bug that was in the desktop wallet. There will be one more later on, about 300K. We know it as quit an extensive amount that is being repayed to community members who lost there funds. But the board, core team and user support, that investigated the bug, founded that we should reimburse these people.
Indeed 'short' clear explanations will be used. If there are really large numbers transfered in the future, ofcourse we will give a more clear explanation about it.
Thank you again for your help.
[/quote]
hmm.. I have been looking at my own spreadsheet from the wallet, the online spreadsheet that is on my test server, the image of the spreadsheet that was posted here, the message i made here regarding the payout and the blockexplorer.
I have a clue on where you think it doesn't hold up, be i'm not sure. I do think you mean when you look at the explorer and see the transactions, you also see a strange '4.49M ECa'transaction right? (you can check the transaction here https://www.electraexplorer.com/tx/677727393743cb1418ed03e480503cd8934b5ae9fc0c814ee882128868e51791 ) If this is what you mean, i do get that this can be strange. If this is the problem, i would like to refer you again to the article i've posted some comments above this one (it's a medium article). In this article, 2 community members and me try to explain this phenomenon. If you start following that adress, you should see it's send back to the foundation wallet later on.
If you notice something else that is not correct, please do notify me. A mistake is easily made when entering numbers, i try to be as carefull as i can, but if you see one, please do point it out.
Regards.
I cant wait to see new features with upcoming fork. The team is doing unbelievable amazing work on this project. This project should be inspiration for all blockchain projects out there in this times.
Dear Stakeholders,
31,500,000 ECA has been transferred from the pre-mine in order to pay for development obligations involving the upcoming fork.
Will this amount be deducted from the 200m that's scheduled to be transferred to the Foundation this week?31,500,000 ECA has been transferred from the pre-mine in order to pay for development obligations involving the upcoming fork.
On the Foundation...I was under the impression they would be providing some kind of accounting for the funds. To date, they've already spent about 14,000,000, or approx 13% of their initial funds (100m from you, 5m from donation wallet), with no accounting for it, at least not publicly as they'd claimed.
They also said they'd be posting minutes from their meetings, which they've also failed to do.
This lack of transparency or accountibility is really concerning. They've been set up for over 3 months now, so the excuse that it's "new" I don't think is valid anymore.
I think you should reconsider sending any additional funds to the Foundation until such time as they can account for their spending and supply meeting minutes.
By all accounts, you are more transparent than the Foundation, and the premine would be better off in your hands.
A) they have no real foundation control and it's all a front for someone else actually controlling the funds,
B) they're unprofessional, disorganized, & haven't been keeping track, or
C) they've transferred funds secretly and gotten caught
I can't think of one good, valid reason why Robert himself wouldn't know how much has been spent.
The 31.5 million will not be deducted.
The foundation statutes state that financial reports will be provided within two months of the end of the fiscal year (in their case December 31).
My team has asked me to share the image below with you. It is still in development but should provide the transparency you are looking for when released.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/417467913168224256/539479418486390795/unknown.png
Dear community,
I commented on Discord that we're working on an integrated explorer on the new website where everyone can keep track of the transactions. All transactions so far have been explained and made public on Bitcointalk.
For now I'd like to refer to the screenshot E01 shared which shows the expenses we had until now.
On a sidenote I do realise that I'm now responding an account that has questionable motivations of bringing the project in a bad light. Nonetheless I want to stipulate to each and everyone who reads this that all identities of the board members are publically known (unless most individuals in the crypto space or even in this thread). Also we spend our time and energy free of payment in making the project a success.
So to recap, please be a bit more patient until the foundation page on the website is updated so you can proactively find the answers to your questions/accusations.
Other then that I want to use this opportunity to thank E01 for giving the community and the project team the possibility to manage and use part of the premine. It testifies of great faith in people you have never met before and were, up until 2017, complete strangers.
End of message and on behalf of the foundation board,
Robert Bakker
https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertsebastianbakker/
I ask these questions out of concern for the project. It's called diligence, not FUD.
You yourself claimed in the past in Discord that meeting minutes and accounting would be available once the website was live. It's now live, and still nothing is available. As you've intimated, almost all answers are available if one looks hard enough... except for anything related to the Foundation. It would take 5 minutes to post minutes in Discord. 30 seconds to post big expenses. Since the Foundation was formed in October, I don't think it's at all unreasonable to expect some kind of progress report, minutes, or accounting, even if the volunteers are all part time.
I think I spend 30% of my time on people who have questions. Some are critical some are not critical and I always answer them. Sometimes I have the answer, sometimes not. I believe critical quesitons posed with a constructive attitude are necessary for a project team to stay sharp. Therefore I will always respond to them
If you scroll back everyone can see that whenever I take the time to respond to your or Lightinout's comments I respond with facts and answers, yet.. I get no feedback on my responses but another can of worms if being opened until facts and answers close these, and so on.
These questions, conclusions and even accusations have a repetitive and negative character and in my opinion don't add value to the project (opinions are there to be debated). As such I consider you and Lightinout as exceptions to the rule outlined in my first alinea and therefore I spend somewhat less time to the two of you.
On topic, the foundation expenses are visible and shared here on Bitcointalk until they will be shown on the foundations page on our brand new website.
I wish you the best.
It's been 5 months since I posted any questions, at which time I thanked you for your answers and professionalism.
That's obviously changed based on the aggressive responses you're giving this time. If answering my questions takes 30% of your time, it just demonstrates how little time you actually have to commit to the project.
Calling for people on Discord to, and I quote you "Suffocate fudders with love and respect." in order to bury valid concerns and questions about funds being moved from the wallet and lack of transparency from the Foundation is literally getting the community to pull the wool over their own eyes.
You've said s couple of times now that the expenses are posted on bitcointalk. E01's, yes. Consistently and timely. The Foundation's, no. Not until E01 posted the spreadsheet AFTER I asked why 13% of the funds had already been spent with no accounting. The very question that got any kind of accounting from the Foundation posted on bitcointalk you dismiss as FUD. (You have an inaccuracy Dec 6 by the way... There's an additional 5.4 million that was sent out that's unaccounted for). You yourself denied on Discord yesterday that over 14m has already been spent, which means YOU didn't even know until I asked.
You are literally making false accusations and talking in circles in the hopes of diverting the community's attention away from the real issues, concerns, and questions.
Answering questions in a direct, factual manner as E01 does in far more professional, and will result in far less replies from concerned community members trying to defend themselves against your false accusations of just trying to create FUD.
About the 5.4 million u say is unaccountable for, please do read this article --> https://medium.com/@electrictrippy/electra-foundation-funds-coin-control-e05bb2534268 it will give you a basic understanding of blockchain and how transactions are handled. The article is written based on the foundations wallet actually.
E01 is indeed very timely with posting on bitcointalk. The fact that we are building the page on on the website is that bitcointalk can be a mess. This fact is stated as you say 13% is spend without accounting. It is me that is posting when big transactions are made. please search back message here with my name: Altfeeder. FYI i'm Bob van Egeraat, the chairman. This i say to make it more clear to you why i post these message. So the funds are not unaccounted for when you search. But point is made, we are switching to the website with our transaction oversight, so this cannot occur any more.
Also, the foundation board, as per our statutes, should meet and vote once per quarter (this is quite normal for a foundation). As the landscape of crypto is very dynamic, we already noticed we sometimes have to have a non sheduled meeting. And make rather quick decisions because of this. It can be a payment that has to be voted upon, contracts that need to be discussed/signed. Meetings with exchanges or other projects for further developments or as a new partner.
To give you a clear explanation on how our (the board) decisions are mostly driven is that a community member (usually a core team) comes to us in need of something. We cannot wait 1 or 2 or even 3 months with a decision, so we shedule an 'official' voting round so we come to conclusion on a matter and vote. It is not that this happens daily as you also will understand, most of our time goes to talking/discussing with other projects and some exchanges for cooperation. The core team is the the team that (mostly, can also be a community member) comes with ideas, leads etc. and the board is there to vote yes or no.
furthermore, explaining (in detail) all expenses to our community does not make full sense, a little bit of trust on a transaction like the aircoins one (the last one) can be expected from the community towards us imo. All transactions are open to see and by the end of the week all transactions will be live on the website with a short explanation. Also be sure that the dutch tax office is not to play with on that matter, as foundation we have 100% tax exemption, be sure we will have to account for every transaction Do remind yourself of the fact that Raymond, Robert and I are members of a foundation and will be held accountable by Dutch law if we make malicious or not accounted for transactions. Believe me when I say I worry more about getting all transactions, be it FIAT or crypto, in 100% order, then you concern about a 5.4 million transaction (that is actually accounted for as you will probably understand now).
If you have question, contact me on discord.
Regards Bob
Honestly, malicious transactions weren't as much my worry as losing track was. As an "outsider", I have no idea what's going on, who's doing what, what's spent, etc. It really raised a red flag for me when Robert himself didn't appear to know. My worry went from "they're spending a lot, quickly, and no idea what for" to "is anyone even keeping track or monitoring?"
I'm happy to hear that it will all be available on the website this week.
Thank you for all your time and effort.
No problem, I'm here to answer those questions. As you read back my message here on bitcointalk, you'll see the biggest protion of the 13% was due to reimbursment of a wallet bug that was in the desktop wallet. There will be one more later on, about 300K. We know it as quit an extensive amount that is being repayed to community members who lost there funds. But the board, core team and user support, that investigated the bug, founded that we should reimburse these people.
Indeed 'short' clear explanations will be used. If there are really large numbers transfered in the future, ofcourse we will give a more clear explanation about it.
[/quote]
Just an FYI that Dec 6 payouts still don't reconcile with spreadsheet, but I'm sure you'll get that fixed. The spreadsheet doesn't reflect the payouts to Coindeal winners 1-8. (Found that on one of your previous posts about the Coindeal payout).
Thank you again for your help.
Dear Stakeholders,
31,500,000 ECA has been transferred from the pre-mine in order to pay for development obligations involving the upcoming fork.
Will this amount be deducted from the 200m that's scheduled to be transferred to the Foundation this week?31,500,000 ECA has been transferred from the pre-mine in order to pay for development obligations involving the upcoming fork.
On the Foundation...I was under the impression they would be providing some kind of accounting for the funds. To date, they've already spent about 14,000,000, or approx 13% of their initial funds (100m from you, 5m from donation wallet), with no accounting for it, at least not publicly as they'd claimed.
They also said they'd be posting minutes from their meetings, which they've also failed to do.
This lack of transparency or accountibility is really concerning. They've been set up for over 3 months now, so the excuse that it's "new" I don't think is valid anymore.
I think you should reconsider sending any additional funds to the Foundation until such time as they can account for their spending and supply meeting minutes.
By all accounts, you are more transparent than the Foundation, and the premine would be better off in your hands.
A) they have no real foundation control and it's all a front for someone else actually controlling the funds,
B) they're unprofessional, disorganized, & haven't been keeping track, or
C) they've transferred funds secretly and gotten caught
I can't think of one good, valid reason why Robert himself wouldn't know how much has been spent.
The 31.5 million will not be deducted.
The foundation statutes state that financial reports will be provided within two months of the end of the fiscal year (in their case December 31).
My team has asked me to share the image below with you. It is still in development but should provide the transparency you are looking for when released.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/417467913168224256/539479418486390795/unknown.png
Dear community,
I commented on Discord that we're working on an integrated explorer on the new website where everyone can keep track of the transactions. All transactions so far have been explained and made public on Bitcointalk.
For now I'd like to refer to the screenshot E01 shared which shows the expenses we had until now.
On a sidenote I do realise that I'm now responding an account that has questionable motivations of bringing the project in a bad light. Nonetheless I want to stipulate to each and everyone who reads this that all identities of the board members are publically known (unless most individuals in the crypto space or even in this thread). Also we spend our time and energy free of payment in making the project a success.
So to recap, please be a bit more patient until the foundation page on the website is updated so you can proactively find the answers to your questions/accusations.
Other then that I want to use this opportunity to thank E01 for giving the community and the project team the possibility to manage and use part of the premine. It testifies of great faith in people you have never met before and were, up until 2017, complete strangers.
End of message and on behalf of the foundation board,
Robert Bakker
https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertsebastianbakker/
I ask these questions out of concern for the project. It's called diligence, not FUD.
You yourself claimed in the past in Discord that meeting minutes and accounting would be available once the website was live. It's now live, and still nothing is available. As you've intimated, almost all answers are available if one looks hard enough... except for anything related to the Foundation. It would take 5 minutes to post minutes in Discord. 30 seconds to post big expenses. Since the Foundation was formed in October, I don't think it's at all unreasonable to expect some kind of progress report, minutes, or accounting, even if the volunteers are all part time.
I think I spend 30% of my time on people who have questions. Some are critical some are not critical and I always answer them. Sometimes I have the answer, sometimes not. I believe critical quesitons posed with a constructive attitude are necessary for a project team to stay sharp. Therefore I will always respond to them
If you scroll back everyone can see that whenever I take the time to respond to your or Lightinout's comments I respond with facts and answers, yet.. I get no feedback on my responses but another can of worms if being opened until facts and answers close these, and so on.
These questions, conclusions and even accusations have a repetitive and negative character and in my opinion don't add value to the project (opinions are there to be debated). As such I consider you and Lightinout as exceptions to the rule outlined in my first alinea and therefore I spend somewhat less time to the two of you.
On topic, the foundation expenses are visible and shared here on Bitcointalk until they will be shown on the foundations page on our brand new website.
I wish you the best.
It's been 5 months since I posted any questions, at which time I thanked you for your answers and professionalism.
That's obviously changed based on the aggressive responses you're giving this time. If answering my questions takes 30% of your time, it just demonstrates how little time you actually have to commit to the project.
Calling for people on Discord to, and I quote you "Suffocate fudders with love and respect." in order to bury valid concerns and questions about funds being moved from the wallet and lack of transparency from the Foundation is literally getting the community to pull the wool over their own eyes.
You've said s couple of times now that the expenses are posted on bitcointalk. E01's, yes. Consistently and timely. The Foundation's, no. Not until E01 posted the spreadsheet AFTER I asked why 13% of the funds had already been spent with no accounting. The very question that got any kind of accounting from the Foundation posted on bitcointalk you dismiss as FUD. (You have an inaccuracy Dec 6 by the way... There's an additional 5.4 million that was sent out that's unaccounted for). You yourself denied on Discord yesterday that over 14m has already been spent, which means YOU didn't even know until I asked.
You are literally making false accusations and talking in circles in the hopes of diverting the community's attention away from the real issues, concerns, and questions.
Answering questions in a direct, factual manner as E01 does in far more professional, and will result in far less replies from concerned community members trying to defend themselves against your false accusations of just trying to create FUD.
About the 5.4 million u say is unaccountable for, please do read this article --> https://medium.com/@electrictrippy/electra-foundation-funds-coin-control-e05bb2534268 it will give you a basic understanding of blockchain and how transactions are handled. The article is written based on the foundations wallet actually.
E01 is indeed very timely with posting on bitcointalk. The fact that we are building the page on on the website is that bitcointalk can be a mess. This fact is stated as you say 13% is spend without accounting. It is me that is posting when big transactions are made. please search back message here with my name: Altfeeder. FYI i'm Bob van Egeraat, the chairman. This i say to make it more clear to you why i post these message. So the funds are not unaccounted for when you search. But point is made, we are switching to the website with our transaction oversight, so this cannot occur any more.
Also, the foundation board, as per our statutes, should meet and vote once per quarter (this is quite normal for a foundation). As the landscape of crypto is very dynamic, we already noticed we sometimes have to have a non sheduled meeting. And make rather quick decisions because of this. It can be a payment that has to be voted upon, contracts that need to be discussed/signed. Meetings with exchanges or other projects for further developments or as a new partner.
To give you a clear explanation on how our (the board) decisions are mostly driven is that a community member (usually a core team) comes to us in need of something. We cannot wait 1 or 2 or even 3 months with a decision, so we shedule an 'official' voting round so we come to conclusion on a matter and vote. It is not that this happens daily as you also will understand, most of our time goes to talking/discussing with other projects and some exchanges for cooperation. The core team is the the team that (mostly, can also be a community member) comes with ideas, leads etc. and the board is there to vote yes or no.
furthermore, explaining (in detail) all expenses to our community does not make full sense, a little bit of trust on a transaction like the aircoins one (the last one) can be expected from the community towards us imo. All transactions are open to see and by the end of the week all transactions will be live on the website with a short explanation. Also be sure that the dutch tax office is not to play with on that matter, as foundation we have 100% tax exemption, be sure we will have to account for every transaction Do remind yourself of the fact that Raymond, Robert and I are members of a foundation and will be held accountable by Dutch law if we make malicious or not accounted for transactions. Believe me when I say I worry more about getting all transactions, be it FIAT or crypto, in 100% order, then you concern about a 5.4 million transaction (that is actually accounted for as you will probably understand now).
If you have question, contact me on discord.
Regards Bob
Honestly, malicious transactions weren't as much my worry as losing track was. As an "outsider", I have no idea what's going on, who's doing what, what's spent, etc. It really raised a red flag for me when Robert himself didn't appear to know. My worry went from "they're spending a lot, quickly, and no idea what for" to "is anyone even keeping track or monitoring?"
I'm happy to hear that it will all be available on the website this week.
Thank you for all your time and effort.
[/quote]
No problem, I'm here to answer those questions. As you read back my message here on bitcointalk, you'll see the biggest protion of the 13% was due to reimbursment of a wallet bug that was in the desktop wallet. There will be one more later on, about 300K. We know it as quit an extensive amount that is being repayed to community members who lost there funds. But the board, core team and user support, that investigated the bug, founded that we should reimburse these people.
Indeed 'short' clear explanations will be used. If there are really large numbers transfered in the future, ofcourse we will give a more clear explanation about it.
Dear Stakeholders,
31,500,000 ECA has been transferred from the pre-mine in order to pay for development obligations involving the upcoming fork.
Will this amount be deducted from the 200m that's scheduled to be transferred to the Foundation this week?31,500,000 ECA has been transferred from the pre-mine in order to pay for development obligations involving the upcoming fork.
On the Foundation...I was under the impression they would be providing some kind of accounting for the funds. To date, they've already spent about 14,000,000, or approx 13% of their initial funds (100m from you, 5m from donation wallet), with no accounting for it, at least not publicly as they'd claimed.
They also said they'd be posting minutes from their meetings, which they've also failed to do.
This lack of transparency or accountibility is really concerning. They've been set up for over 3 months now, so the excuse that it's "new" I don't think is valid anymore.
I think you should reconsider sending any additional funds to the Foundation until such time as they can account for their spending and supply meeting minutes.
By all accounts, you are more transparent than the Foundation, and the premine would be better off in your hands.
A) they have no real foundation control and it's all a front for someone else actually controlling the funds,
B) they're unprofessional, disorganized, & haven't been keeping track, or
C) they've transferred funds secretly and gotten caught
I can't think of one good, valid reason why Robert himself wouldn't know how much has been spent.
The 31.5 million will not be deducted.
The foundation statutes state that financial reports will be provided within two months of the end of the fiscal year (in their case December 31).
My team has asked me to share the image below with you. It is still in development but should provide the transparency you are looking for when released.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/417467913168224256/539479418486390795/unknown.png
Dear community,
I commented on Discord that we're working on an integrated explorer on the new website where everyone can keep track of the transactions. All transactions so far have been explained and made public on Bitcointalk.
For now I'd like to refer to the screenshot E01 shared which shows the expenses we had until now.
On a sidenote I do realise that I'm now responding an account that has questionable motivations of bringing the project in a bad light. Nonetheless I want to stipulate to each and everyone who reads this that all identities of the board members are publically known (unless most individuals in the crypto space or even in this thread). Also we spend our time and energy free of payment in making the project a success.
So to recap, please be a bit more patient until the foundation page on the website is updated so you can proactively find the answers to your questions/accusations.
Other then that I want to use this opportunity to thank E01 for giving the community and the project team the possibility to manage and use part of the premine. It testifies of great faith in people you have never met before and were, up until 2017, complete strangers.
End of message and on behalf of the foundation board,
Robert Bakker
https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertsebastianbakker/
I ask these questions out of concern for the project. It's called diligence, not FUD.
You yourself claimed in the past in Discord that meeting minutes and accounting would be available once the website was live. It's now live, and still nothing is available. As you've intimated, almost all answers are available if one looks hard enough... except for anything related to the Foundation. It would take 5 minutes to post minutes in Discord. 30 seconds to post big expenses. Since the Foundation was formed in October, I don't think it's at all unreasonable to expect some kind of progress report, minutes, or accounting, even if the volunteers are all part time.
I think I spend 30% of my time on people who have questions. Some are critical some are not critical and I always answer them. Sometimes I have the answer, sometimes not. I believe critical quesitons posed with a constructive attitude are necessary for a project team to stay sharp. Therefore I will always respond to them
If you scroll back everyone can see that whenever I take the time to respond to your or Lightinout's comments I respond with facts and answers, yet.. I get no feedback on my responses but another can of worms if being opened until facts and answers close these, and so on.
These questions, conclusions and even accusations have a repetitive and negative character and in my opinion don't add value to the project (opinions are there to be debated). As such I consider you and Lightinout as exceptions to the rule outlined in my first alinea and therefore I spend somewhat less time to the two of you.
On topic, the foundation expenses are visible and shared here on Bitcointalk until they will be shown on the foundations page on our brand new website.
I wish you the best.
It's been 5 months since I posted any questions, at which time I thanked you for your answers and professionalism.
That's obviously changed based on the aggressive responses you're giving this time. If answering my questions takes 30% of your time, it just demonstrates how little time you actually have to commit to the project.
Calling for people on Discord to, and I quote you "Suffocate fudders with love and respect." in order to bury valid concerns and questions about funds being moved from the wallet and lack of transparency from the Foundation is literally getting the community to pull the wool over their own eyes.
You've said s couple of times now that the expenses are posted on bitcointalk. E01's, yes. Consistently and timely. The Foundation's, no. Not until E01 posted the spreadsheet AFTER I asked why 13% of the funds had already been spent with no accounting. The very question that got any kind of accounting from the Foundation posted on bitcointalk you dismiss as FUD. (You have an inaccuracy Dec 6 by the way... There's an additional 5.4 million that was sent out that's unaccounted for). You yourself denied on Discord yesterday that over 14m has already been spent, which means YOU didn't even know until I asked.
You are literally making false accusations and talking in circles in the hopes of diverting the community's attention away from the real issues, concerns, and questions.
Answering questions in a direct, factual manner as E01 does in far more professional, and will result in far less replies from concerned community members trying to defend themselves against your false accusations of just trying to create FUD.
About the 5.4 million u say is unaccountable for, please do read this article --> https://medium.com/@electrictrippy/electra-foundation-funds-coin-control-e05bb2534268 it will give you a basic understanding of blockchain and how transactions are handled. The article is written based on the foundations wallet actually.
E01 is indeed very timely with posting on bitcointalk. The fact that we are building the page on on the website is that bitcointalk can be a mess. This fact is stated as you say 13% is spend without accounting. It is me that is posting when big transactions are made. please search back message here with my name: Altfeeder. FYI i'm Bob van Egeraat, the chairman. This i say to make it more clear to you why i post these message. So the funds are not unaccounted for when you search. But point is made, we are switching to the website with our transaction oversight, so this cannot occur any more.
Also, the foundation board, as per our statutes, should meet and vote once per quarter (this is quite normal for a foundation). As the landscape of crypto is very dynamic, we already noticed we sometimes have to have a non sheduled meeting. And make rather quick decisions because of this. It can be a payment that has to be voted upon, contracts that need to be discussed/signed. Meetings with exchanges or other projects for further developments or as a new partner.
To give you a clear explanation on how our (the board) decisions are mostly driven is that a community member (usually a core team) comes to us in need of something. We cannot wait 1 or 2 or even 3 months with a decision, so we shedule an 'official' voting round so we come to conclusion on a matter and vote. It is not that this happens daily as you also will understand, most of our time goes to talking/discussing with other projects and some exchanges for cooperation. The core team is the the team that (mostly, can also be a community member) comes with ideas, leads etc. and the board is there to vote yes or no.
furthermore, explaining (in detail) all expenses to our community does not make full sense, a little bit of trust on a transaction like the aircoins one (the last one) can be expected from the community towards us imo. All transactions are open to see and by the end of the week all transactions will be live on the website with a short explanation. Also be sure that the dutch tax office is not to play with on that matter, as foundation we have 100% tax exemption, be sure we will have to account for every transaction Do remind yourself of the fact that Raymond, Robert and I are members of a foundation and will be held accountable by Dutch law if we make malicious or not accounted for transactions. Believe me when I say I worry more about getting all transactions, be it FIAT or crypto, in 100% order, then you concern about a 5.4 million transaction (that is actually accounted for as you will probably understand now).
If you have question, contact me on discord.
Regards Bob
[/quote]
Thank you for your clear and concise answer, particularly that part which addressed how it's decided what gets paid and how. Completely understandable that every payment out wouldn't and shouldn't be in full detail. General terminology would probably work the best ie...Advertising, Exchange fees, dues and subscriptions, etc. Just like it would be in an accounting program.
Honestly, malicious transactions weren't as much my worry as losing track was. As an "outsider", I have no idea what's going on, who's doing what, what's spent, etc. It really raised a red flag for me when Robert himself didn't appear to know. My worry went from "they're spending a lot, quickly, and no idea what for" to "is anyone even keeping track or monitoring?"
I'm happy to hear that it will all be available on the website this week.
Thank you for all your time and effort.
As an armchair critic, backseat driver, fudder, whatever you want to call me, these are things the teams need to start doing again, which all seem to have gone by the wayside since the mass exodus of key team members last summer (I know someone, somewhere, is going to reply with "they weren't key team members" but they very obviously were or things wouldn't have gotten left like they have). THIS IS CONSTRUCTIVE ADVICE AND IS NOT MEANT AS FUD.
1. Back room updates - these improved transparency immensely.
2. Proofreading EVERYTHING that gets posted on social media. The spelling and grammar errors that are regularly in posts now are really unprofessional looking.
3. Help wanted ads - You keep claiming people should volunteer. To where? The only post I've seen in months is for developers.
4. Translation team - what happened to getting everything translated for a global community?
5. Engineering call agendas
6. Consistent engineering calls held on the date they're supposed to be
7. Engineering call transcripts for easy access
8. Articles written by ECA with pertinent, informative content
9. Marketing has pretty much died... what happened to the graphics, information, updates etc?
10. Current roadmap
11. Updated whitepaper
12. Updated team information.
13. Community input, opportunities for engineering call content requests
From the time the teams were formed until about July or August almost everything about this coin and its management was impressive, even in a "down" market. It was constantly growing and evolving. Sure it had some hiccups, but the team more than made up for it, keeping everyone informed and excited on a continuous basis.
Having talked to many of the team members that left, their reasons for leaving had nothing at all to do with a down market.
Before you claim not enough time or volunteers, my personal suggestion would be to beg the key people who left to come back. Pay them, take up donations, use foundation funds... whatever it takes, just try to get them back. The ones I can think of are people like Crypto Life, Undertow, Mom, Ivan, Maverick...
Which brings me to my next point on volunteers. I myself would never personally volunteer for this project because of the way the volunteers are regarded after they leave. It's made very clear that no matter who it is that leaves, they didn't really matter and are easily replaceable. Their reasons are reduced to "they couldn't stick it through" , belittling their contributions and real reasons they had for leaving. Obviously, some of them aren't replaceable. For instance, you'll probably never get volunteers again with the same qualifications and abilities as the people I listed above. Hell, you can't get people like them for paid positions, let alone volunteer ones.
Maverick was one of the most effective marketers or "hype" expert I've ever seen.
Mom had unbelievable experience and seemed to somehow keep it all under control.
Ivan did massive amounts of development.
Crypto Life was an expert in pretty much everything, and an amazing community person.
Undertow wrote good articles, and based on everything that was released during his time, was a professional proofer.
I don't know who was responsible for each of the things that have been abandoned since they all left, but you need to get them all back, & the only way you can do that in a timely manner is to try to get some of those key people back.
1. Back room updates - these improved transparency immensely.
2. Proofreading EVERYTHING that gets posted on social media. The spelling and grammar errors that are regularly in posts now are really unprofessional looking.
3. Help wanted ads - You keep claiming people should volunteer. To where? The only post I've seen in months is for developers.
4. Translation team - what happened to getting everything translated for a global community?
5. Engineering call agendas
6. Consistent engineering calls held on the date they're supposed to be
7. Engineering call transcripts for easy access
8. Articles written by ECA with pertinent, informative content
9. Marketing has pretty much died... what happened to the graphics, information, updates etc?
10. Current roadmap
11. Updated whitepaper
12. Updated team information.
13. Community input, opportunities for engineering call content requests
From the time the teams were formed until about July or August almost everything about this coin and its management was impressive, even in a "down" market. It was constantly growing and evolving. Sure it had some hiccups, but the team more than made up for it, keeping everyone informed and excited on a continuous basis.
Having talked to many of the team members that left, their reasons for leaving had nothing at all to do with a down market.
Before you claim not enough time or volunteers, my personal suggestion would be to beg the key people who left to come back. Pay them, take up donations, use foundation funds... whatever it takes, just try to get them back. The ones I can think of are people like Crypto Life, Undertow, Mom, Ivan, Maverick...
Which brings me to my next point on volunteers. I myself would never personally volunteer for this project because of the way the volunteers are regarded after they leave. It's made very clear that no matter who it is that leaves, they didn't really matter and are easily replaceable. Their reasons are reduced to "they couldn't stick it through" , belittling their contributions and real reasons they had for leaving. Obviously, some of them aren't replaceable. For instance, you'll probably never get volunteers again with the same qualifications and abilities as the people I listed above. Hell, you can't get people like them for paid positions, let alone volunteer ones.
Maverick was one of the most effective marketers or "hype" expert I've ever seen.
Mom had unbelievable experience and seemed to somehow keep it all under control.
Ivan did massive amounts of development.
Crypto Life was an expert in pretty much everything, and an amazing community person.
Undertow wrote good articles, and based on everything that was released during his time, was a professional proofer.
I don't know who was responsible for each of the things that have been abandoned since they all left, but you need to get them all back, & the only way you can do that in a timely manner is to try to get some of those key people back.
Dear Stakeholders,
31,500,000 ECA has been transferred from the pre-mine in order to pay for development obligations involving the upcoming fork.
Will this amount be deducted from the 200m that's scheduled to be transferred to the Foundation this week?31,500,000 ECA has been transferred from the pre-mine in order to pay for development obligations involving the upcoming fork.
On the Foundation...I was under the impression they would be providing some kind of accounting for the funds. To date, they've already spent about 14,000,000, or approx 13% of their initial funds (100m from you, 5m from donation wallet), with no accounting for it, at least not publicly as they'd claimed.
They also said they'd be posting minutes from their meetings, which they've also failed to do.
This lack of transparency or accountibility is really concerning. They've been set up for over 3 months now, so the excuse that it's "new" I don't think is valid anymore.
I think you should reconsider sending any additional funds to the Foundation until such time as they can account for their spending and supply meeting minutes.
By all accounts, you are more transparent than the Foundation, and the premine would be better off in your hands.
A) they have no real foundation control and it's all a front for someone else actually controlling the funds,
B) they're unprofessional, disorganized, & haven't been keeping track, or
C) they've transferred funds secretly and gotten caught
I can't think of one good, valid reason why Robert himself wouldn't know how much has been spent.
The 31.5 million will not be deducted.
The foundation statutes state that financial reports will be provided within two months of the end of the fiscal year (in their case December 31).
My team has asked me to share the image below with you. It is still in development but should provide the transparency you are looking for when released.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/417467913168224256/539479418486390795/unknown.png
Dear community,
I commented on Discord that we're working on an integrated explorer on the new website where everyone can keep track of the transactions. All transactions so far have been explained and made public on Bitcointalk.
For now I'd like to refer to the screenshot E01 shared which shows the expenses we had until now.
On a sidenote I do realise that I'm now responding an account that has questionable motivations of bringing the project in a bad light. Nonetheless I want to stipulate to each and everyone who reads this that all identities of the board members are publically known (unless most individuals in the crypto space or even in this thread). Also we spend our time and energy free of payment in making the project a success.
So to recap, please be a bit more patient until the foundation page on the website is updated so you can proactively find the answers to your questions/accusations.
Other then that I want to use this opportunity to thank E01 for giving the community and the project team the possibility to manage and use part of the premine. It testifies of great faith in people you have never met before and were, up until 2017, complete strangers.
End of message and on behalf of the foundation board,
Robert Bakker
https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertsebastianbakker/
I ask these questions out of concern for the project. It's called diligence, not FUD.
You yourself claimed in the past in Discord that meeting minutes and accounting would be available once the website was live. It's now live, and still nothing is available. As you've intimated, almost all answers are available if one looks hard enough... except for anything related to the Foundation. It would take 5 minutes to post minutes in Discord. 30 seconds to post big expenses. Since the Foundation was formed in October, I don't think it's at all unreasonable to expect some kind of progress report, minutes, or accounting, even if the volunteers are all part time.
I think I spend 30% of my time on people who have questions. Some are critical some are not critical and I always answer them. Sometimes I have the answer, sometimes not. I believe critical quesitons posed with a constructive attitude are necessary for a project team to stay sharp. Therefore I will always respond to them
If you scroll back everyone can see that whenever I take the time to respond to your or Lightinout's comments I respond with facts and answers, yet.. I get no feedback on my responses but another can of worms if being opened until facts and answers close these, and so on.
These questions, conclusions and even accusations have a repetitive and negative character and in my opinion don't add value to the project (opinions are there to be debated). As such I consider you and Lightinout as exceptions to the rule outlined in my first alinea and therefore I spend somewhat less time to the two of you.
On topic, the foundation expenses are visible and shared here on Bitcointalk until they will be shown on the foundations page on our brand new website.
I wish you the best.
It's been 5 months since I posted any questions, at which time I thanked you for your answers and professionalism.
That's obviously changed based on the aggressive responses you're giving this time. If answering my questions takes 30% of your time, it just demonstrates how little time you actually have to commit to the project.
Calling for people on Discord to, and I quote you "Suffocate fudders with love and respect." in order to bury valid concerns and questions about funds being moved from the wallet and lack of transparency from the Foundation is literally getting the community to pull the wool over their own eyes.
You've said s couple of times now that the expenses are posted on bitcointalk. E01's, yes. Consistently and timely. The Foundation's, no. Not until E01 posted the spreadsheet AFTER I asked why 13% of the funds had already been spent with no accounting. The very question that got any kind of accounting from the Foundation posted on bitcointalk you dismiss as FUD. (You have an inaccuracy Dec 6 by the way... There's an additional 5.4 million that was sent out that's unaccounted for). You yourself denied on Discord yesterday that over 14m has already been spent, which means YOU didn't even know until I asked.
You are literally making false accusations and talking in circles in the hopes of diverting the community's attention away from the real issues, concerns, and questions.
Answering questions in a direct, factual manner as E01 does in far more professional, and will result in far less replies from concerned community members trying to defend themselves against your false accusations of just trying to create FUD.
[/quote]
About the 5.4 million u say is unaccountable for, please do read this article --> https://medium.com/@electrictrippy/electra-foundation-funds-coin-control-e05bb2534268 it will give you a basic understanding of blockchain and how transactions are handled. The article is written based on the foundations wallet actually.
E01 is indeed very timely with posting on bitcointalk. The fact that we are building the page on on the website is that bitcointalk can be a mess. This fact is stated as you say 13% is spend without accounting. It is me that is posting when big transactions are made. please search back message here with my name: Altfeeder. FYI i'm Bob van Egeraat, the chairman. This i say to make it more clear to you why i post these message. So the funds are not unaccounted for when you search. But point is made, we are switching to the website with our transaction oversight, so this cannot occur any more.
Also, the foundation board, as per our statutes, should meet and vote once per quarter (this is quite normal for a foundation). As the landscape of crypto is very dynamic, we already noticed we sometimes have to have a non sheduled meeting. And make rather quick decisions because of this. It can be a payment that has to be voted upon, contracts that need to be discussed/signed. Meetings with exchanges or other projects for further developments or as a new partner.
To give you a clear explanation on how our (the board) decisions are mostly driven is that a community member (usually a core team) comes to us in need of something. We cannot wait 1 or 2 or even 3 months with a decision, so we shedule an 'official' voting round so we come to conclusion on a matter and vote. It is not that this happens daily as you also will understand, most of our time goes to talking/discussing with other projects and some exchanges for cooperation. The core team is the the team that (mostly, can also be a community member) comes with ideas, leads etc. and the board is there to vote yes or no.
furthermore, explaining (in detail) all expenses to our community does not make full sense, a little bit of trust on a transaction like the aircoins one (the last one) can be expected from the community towards us imo. All transactions are open to see and by the end of the week all transactions will be live on the website with a short explanation. Also be sure that the dutch tax office is not to play with on that matter, as foundation we have 100% tax exemption, be sure we will have to account for every transaction Do remind yourself of the fact that Raymond, Robert and I are members of a foundation and will be held accountable by Dutch law if we make malicious or not accounted for transactions. Believe me when I say I worry more about getting all transactions, be it FIAT or crypto, in 100% order, then you concern about a 5.4 million transaction (that is actually accounted for as you will probably understand now).
If you have question, contact me on discord.
Regards Bob
Komodo does support... That's as simple as this... You're a bit slow.
You are an idiot and simple minded person that just listens to whatever they tell you.
Go message Komodo and you will see how expensive their fees are. But hey Electra gets everything for free
Dear Stakeholders,
31,500,000 ECA has been transferred from the pre-mine in order to pay for development obligations involving the upcoming fork.
Will this amount be deducted from the 200m that's scheduled to be transferred to the Foundation this week?31,500,000 ECA has been transferred from the pre-mine in order to pay for development obligations involving the upcoming fork.
On the Foundation...I was under the impression they would be providing some kind of accounting for the funds. To date, they've already spent about 14,000,000, or approx 13% of their initial funds (100m from you, 5m from donation wallet), with no accounting for it, at least not publicly as they'd claimed.
They also said they'd be posting minutes from their meetings, which they've also failed to do.
This lack of transparency or accountibility is really concerning. They've been set up for over 3 months now, so the excuse that it's "new" I don't think is valid anymore.
I think you should reconsider sending any additional funds to the Foundation until such time as they can account for their spending and supply meeting minutes.
By all accounts, you are more transparent than the Foundation, and the premine would be better off in your hands.
A) they have no real foundation control and it's all a front for someone else actually controlling the funds,
B) they're unprofessional, disorganized, & haven't been keeping track, or
C) they've transferred funds secretly and gotten caught
I can't think of one good, valid reason why Robert himself wouldn't know how much has been spent.
The 31.5 million will not be deducted.
The foundation statutes state that financial reports will be provided within two months of the end of the fiscal year (in their case December 31).
My team has asked me to share the image below with you. It is still in development but should provide the transparency you are looking for when released.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/417467913168224256/539479418486390795/unknown.png
Dear community,
I commented on Discord that we're working on an integrated explorer on the new website where everyone can keep track of the transactions. All transactions so far have been explained and made public on Bitcointalk.
For now I'd like to refer to the screenshot E01 shared which shows the expenses we had until now.
On a sidenote I do realise that I'm now responding an account that has questionable motivations of bringing the project in a bad light. Nonetheless I want to stipulate to each and everyone who reads this that all identities of the board members are publically known (unless most individuals in the crypto space or even in this thread). Also we spend our time and energy free of payment in making the project a success.
So to recap, please be a bit more patient until the foundation page on the website is updated so you can proactively find the answers to your questions/accusations.
Other then that I want to use this opportunity to thank E01 for giving the community and the project team the possibility to manage and use part of the premine. It testifies of great faith in people you have never met before and were, up until 2017, complete strangers.
End of message and on behalf of the foundation board,
Robert Bakker
https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertsebastianbakker/
I ask these questions out of concern for the project. It's called diligence, not FUD.
You yourself claimed in the past in Discord that meeting minutes and accounting would be available once the website was live. It's now live, and still nothing is available. As you've intimated, almost all answers are available if one looks hard enough... except for anything related to the Foundation. It would take 5 minutes to post minutes in Discord. 30 seconds to post big expenses. Since the Foundation was formed in October, I don't think it's at all unreasonable to expect some kind of progress report, minutes, or accounting, even if the volunteers are all part time.
I think I spend 30% of my time on people who have questions. Some are critical some are not critical and I always answer them. Sometimes I have the answer, sometimes not. I believe critical quesitons posed with a constructive attitude are necessary for a project team to stay sharp. Therefore I will always respond to them
If you scroll back everyone can see that whenever I take the time to respond to your or Lightinout's comments I respond with facts and answers, yet.. I get no feedback on my responses but another can of worms if being opened until facts and answers close these, and so on.
These questions, conclusions and even accusations have a repetitive and negative character and in my opinion don't add value to the project (opinions are there to be debated). As such I consider you and Lightinout as exceptions to the rule outlined in my first alinea and therefore I spend somewhat less time to the two of you.
On topic, the foundation expenses are visible and shared here on Bitcointalk until they will be shown on the foundations page on our brand new website.
I wish you the best.
It's been 5 months since I posted any questions, at which time I thanked you for your answers and professionalism.
That's obviously changed based on the aggressive responses you're giving this time. If answering my questions takes 30% of your time, it just demonstrates how little time you actually have to commit to the project.
Calling for people on Discord to, and I quote you "Suffocate fudders with love and respect." in order to bury valid concerns and questions about funds being moved from the wallet and lack of transparency from the Foundation is literally getting the community to pull the wool over their own eyes.
You've said s couple of times now that the expenses are posted on bitcointalk. E01's, yes. Consistently and timely. The Foundation's, no. Not until E01 posted the spreadsheet AFTER I asked why 13% of the funds had already been spent with no accounting. The very question that got any kind of accounting from the Foundation posted on bitcointalk you dismiss as FUD. (You have an inaccuracy Dec 6 by the way... There's an additional 5.4 million that was sent out that's unaccounted for). You yourself denied on Discord yesterday that over 14m has already been spent, which means YOU didn't even know until I asked.
You are literally making false accusations and talking in circles in the hopes of diverting the community's attention away from the real issues, concerns, and questions.
Answering questions in a direct, factual manner as E01 does in far more professional, and will result in far less replies from concerned community members trying to defend themselves against your false accusations of just trying to create FUD.
Komodo does support... That's as simple as this... You're a bit slow.
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