Topic: [ANN][ENVY] Envy Coin | ICO closed - Did not meet Min BTC Refund will start soon - page 13. (Read 43531 times)
September 29, 2014, 05:16:52 PM
Interesting, I will keep watching
September 29, 2014, 02:27:30 PM
This would be /very/ hard to coordinate with Bittrex. However, how would you feel about the total coin supply and mining reward being changed to match the amount of coins sold?
For instance, the 10 coin block rewards are currently assuming we sell all Envycoin's in ICO. If we only sold half, we could halve this reward so that really, you'd own that large of a stake in the supply. So, if you buy 1% of the ICO coins, you'd own 0.5% of the total supply (after it's mined out, in 10 years) regardless of how many coins are sold
Yes, that would be an improvement. But, I didn't bring this up initially as I am not here to FUD your coin (in fact, I am very interested in it), but why is there mining at all? Why aren't we using 100% of the BTC invested toward the plan. Aren't the miners just diluting everyone's share of the income?
As far as it being "hard to coordinate with Bittrex", I doubt that, only because I know for a fact that Poloniex has run ICO's using that method. All that has to be done is that you (or they) calculate the proper pro rata share at the end of the ICO and they add that to the wallet. They have all of the wallets (and coins!), so it can't be that hard.
Like I said, I am not here to disparage the coin, and I may get some anyway, but I am confused on the details. Isn't at least part of the appeal that if we all chip in to the coin, we will get a better hashrate deal than if one did it on their own? And on top of that we will have a nice coin to boot that might rise in value, get added features, etc.?
Pure POS might not be a bad idea to consider and that even reward the original investors further.
I know you posted this while I was typing the other response but I will still answer this. I have this same program but on a smaller scale. The coins when staked go to a different address and therefore will not be counted for your percentage if staked during payout. This means it will encourage people to not stake. Believe me I want PoS but with the issue it would cause for the profit share we felt it was best to do PoW.
September 29, 2014, 02:24:35 PM
The reason we are destroying them is because they are all mined and we have limited options. If we were to allow trading to begin and not destroy the market would fear we would dump all remaining coins as a money grab. But if a destroy them they will be out of circulation creating a rarer coin. Obviously this is not what we want but it is the better of two evils. And on the comment about the price. We will roughly $400k market cap after the ICO of we sell. The price was chosen because we needed enough financing to buy an amount of Hashlets that would make a difference. We went 50 million coins because it brought the price per coin in a range small investors could grab a descent amount of coins. If we sell out there will only be 3.67 million new coins over the next year and then roughly 2.5 million the remaining years. This means that the people that paid for their coins will far outweigh those who mined it. 14,400 coins will be mined per day. Which at current ICO rate is .28 BTC per day. This is a pretty small amount for a coin that would have a $400k market cap. And we run the risk that it will not be attractive to miners thus the network will not be secure. I just ran the new numbers since BTC has tanked and it does hurt the time to make back your coins by just holding it now has moved from 70 days when the price was 430 and it now is 114. But what other coin can say even if the price of the coin tanks you can hold it and you will make your money back? We can say this. Something that will greatly effect it is the price of BTC when we buy the hashlets and how many people buy the ICO.
Miners will "secure the network" for very little money (they will just whine about it). But more importantly, they will gladly secure the network if the coin is a big success. My suggestions are toward making it a success, not to FUD. Miners are basically parasites to coins anywhere near the beginning of their life. And especially with a coin like this, the higher the rate of return the better it is.
It is an interesting idea for a coin though. I wish you the best of luck.
Thank you. I know it is a tough sell because people do not like handing out money to nameless people on a forum. But I may be nameless to you guys but I have given my personal info to GAW and to Crypto Asian. Since we are having Bittrex transfer the funds directly to GAW I will not be able to run away with the BTC. And if I tried to scam people by doing something with the Hashlets GAW would be able to turn me into the authorities. The CEO of GAW has confirmed that I have been talking to them and they are in full support of this project.
September 29, 2014, 02:19:35 PM
This would be /very/ hard to coordinate with Bittrex. However, how would you feel about the total coin supply and mining reward being changed to match the amount of coins sold?
For instance, the 10 coin block rewards are currently assuming we sell all Envycoin's in ICO. If we only sold half, we could halve this reward so that really, you'd own that large of a stake in the supply. So, if you buy 1% of the ICO coins, you'd own 0.5% of the total supply (after it's mined out, in 10 years) regardless of how many coins are sold
Yes, that would be an improvement. But, I didn't bring this up initially as I am not here to FUD your coin (in fact, I am very interested in it), but why is there mining at all? Why aren't we using 100% of the BTC invested toward the plan. Aren't the miners just diluting everyone's share of the income?
As far as it being "hard to coordinate with Bittrex", I doubt that, only because I know for a fact that Poloniex has run ICO's using that method. All that has to be done is that you (or they) calculate the proper pro rata share at the end of the ICO and they add that to the wallet. They have all of the wallets (and coins!), so it can't be that hard.
Like I said, I am not here to disparage the coin, and I may get some anyway, but I am confused on the details. Isn't at least part of the appeal that if we all chip in to the coin, we will get a better hashrate deal than if one did it on their own? And on top of that we will have a nice coin to boot that might rise in value, get added features, etc.?
We have mining because this is still a coin so we have to have a secure network. If we went PoS it would be very difficult to track everyone’s coins because at least the other PoS coin I have worked on when your coins are staked they will actually show in a different address. So everyone that has coins staked when we run the payout will now lose out on those coins for their percentage. This would discourage people from staking coins. So the miners are needed to make this work. We are doing our best to limit the risk for ICO investors.
And yes I have the deal worked out with GAW on how much each Hashlet will cost. It is a better deal than anyone will get unless you have 100’s of thousands of dollars. And the real value will be what the coin is worth. We will be working hard to be added to merchants and will continue to develop the coin. The fact that it is asset backed and that asset makes money is a way to reduce the risk for holders of the coin.
September 29, 2014, 02:15:53 PM
This would be /very/ hard to coordinate with Bittrex. However, how would you feel about the total coin supply and mining reward being changed to match the amount of coins sold?
For instance, the 10 coin block rewards are currently assuming we sell all Envycoin's in ICO. If we only sold half, we could halve this reward so that really, you'd own that large of a stake in the supply. So, if you buy 1% of the ICO coins, you'd own 0.5% of the total supply (after it's mined out, in 10 years) regardless of how many coins are sold
Yes, that would be an improvement. But, I didn't bring this up initially as I am not here to FUD your coin (in fact, I am very interested in it), but why is there mining at all? Why aren't we using 100% of the BTC invested toward the plan. Aren't the miners just diluting everyone's share of the income?
As far as it being "hard to coordinate with Bittrex", I doubt that, only because I know for a fact that Poloniex has run ICO's using that method. All that has to be done is that you (or they) calculate the proper pro rata share at the end of the ICO and they add that to the wallet. They have all of the wallets (and coins!), so it can't be that hard.
Like I said, I am not here to disparage the coin, and I may get some anyway, but I am confused on the details. Isn't at least part of the appeal that if we all chip in to the coin, we will get a better hashrate deal than if one did it on their own? And on top of that we will have a nice coin to boot that might rise in value, get added features, etc.?
Pure POS might not be a bad idea to consider and that even reward the original investors further.
September 29, 2014, 02:14:00 PM
The reason we are destroying them is because they are all mined and we have limited options. If we were to allow trading to begin and not destroy the market would fear we would dump all remaining coins as a money grab. But if a destroy them they will be out of circulation creating a rarer coin. Obviously this is not what we want but it is the better of two evils. And on the comment about the price. We will roughly $400k market cap after the ICO of we sell. The price was chosen because we needed enough financing to buy an amount of Hashlets that would make a difference. We went 50 million coins because it brought the price per coin in a range small investors could grab a descent amount of coins. If we sell out there will only be 3.67 million new coins over the next year and then roughly 2.5 million the remaining years. This means that the people that paid for their coins will far outweigh those who mined it. 14,400 coins will be mined per day. Which at current ICO rate is .28 BTC per day. This is a pretty small amount for a coin that would have a $400k market cap. And we run the risk that it will not be attractive to miners thus the network will not be secure. I just ran the new numbers since BTC has tanked and it does hurt the time to make back your coins by just holding it now has moved from 70 days when the price was 430 and it now is 114. But what other coin can say even if the price of the coin tanks you can hold it and you will make your money back? We can say this. Something that will greatly effect it is the price of BTC when we buy the hashlets and how many people buy the ICO.
Miners will "secure the network" for very little money (they will just whine about it). But more importantly, they will gladly secure the network if the coin is a big success. My suggestions are toward making it a success, not to FUD. Miners are basically parasites to coins anywhere near the beginning of their life. And especially with a coin like this, the higher the rate of return the better it is.
It is an interesting idea for a coin though. I wish you the best of luck.
September 29, 2014, 02:05:32 PM
This would be /very/ hard to coordinate with Bittrex. However, how would you feel about the total coin supply and mining reward being changed to match the amount of coins sold?
For instance, the 10 coin block rewards are currently assuming we sell all Envycoin's in ICO. If we only sold half, we could halve this reward so that really, you'd own that large of a stake in the supply. So, if you buy 1% of the ICO coins, you'd own 0.5% of the total supply (after it's mined out, in 10 years) regardless of how many coins are sold
Yes, that would be an improvement. But, I didn't bring this up initially as I am not here to FUD your coin (in fact, I am very interested in it), but why is there mining at all? Why aren't we using 100% of the BTC invested toward the plan. Aren't the miners just diluting everyone's share of the income?
As far as it being "hard to coordinate with Bittrex", I doubt that, only because I know for a fact that Poloniex has run ICO's using that method. All that has to be done is that you (or they) calculate the proper pro rata share at the end of the ICO and they add that to the wallet. They have all of the wallets (and coins!), so it can't be that hard.
Like I said, I am not here to disparage the coin, and I may get some anyway, but I am confused on the details. Isn't at least part of the appeal that if we all chip in to the coin, we will get a better hashrate deal than if one did it on their own? And on top of that we will have a nice coin to boot that might rise in value, get added features, etc.?
September 29, 2014, 01:24:33 PM
I wanted to just take some time to explain why this is better than just buying a share of a Hashlet.
If we just did mining shares the only money you will have is the income from that Hashlet. You will never be able to buy anything with it. Your only options are to sell it to get BTC or to just keep receiving your payments. With Envy our long term goal is to be added to all the major merchants accepting BTC. You will be able to buy and sell your ENVY on an exchange, we fully plan for you to be able to buy real world products plus other features that we will develop for the coin over time. Value will be added to the coin just like other coins that have active development teams. The profit share is just a feature of this coin. It may not be a tech feature but it is still a feature of this coin. How many coins can you say if the price of the coin drops I can just hang on to it and I will eventually get my money back? You will be getting your coins to spend just like any other coins but you have a security blanket of the profit share.
If we just did mining shares the only money you will have is the income from that Hashlet. You will never be able to buy anything with it. Your only options are to sell it to get BTC or to just keep receiving your payments. With Envy our long term goal is to be added to all the major merchants accepting BTC. You will be able to buy and sell your ENVY on an exchange, we fully plan for you to be able to buy real world products plus other features that we will develop for the coin over time. Value will be added to the coin just like other coins that have active development teams. The profit share is just a feature of this coin. It may not be a tech feature but it is still a feature of this coin. How many coins can you say if the price of the coin drops I can just hang on to it and I will eventually get my money back? You will be getting your coins to spend just like any other coins but you have a security blanket of the profit share.
September 29, 2014, 12:06:15 PM
I really like this concept, but I do have one bone of contention. Why are you destroying any unsold ICO coins? This is a tactic that favors miners over early investors (and crypto ICO's reputations are already in tough shape). The price is already pretty darned high with ENVY valued at around $750,000. Now, I realize that market cap is less relevant than most coins in that your plan involves an NAV. Still, market psychology wise, it matters.
Early investors are who should matter in the case of an ICO (or one shouldn't have one).Let's put aside the fact that most miners are nothing but vultures picking at the coin until the "meat" is consumed and quickly moving on to the next coin. Let's even pretend they are mostly angels, just looking to provide a nice service so that everyone can succeed. They still are being favored here as they will know if the coin is good to go, how much enthusiasm has been generated by the ICO, and even the market price for it on Bittrex.
They have nearly zero risk and yet are being put on the same footing (or better) as people risking their BTC upfront. Any unsold coins should go to early investors for two reasons. First, it gives one an incentive to buy the ICO as it may result in getting more coins for the same investment. Secondly, it gets the ball rolling as far as enthusiasm is concerned. So, even if the early investors did not get "extra" shares, they are still happy in that the ICO sold out and demonstrated some initial excitement (and demand) for the coin.
Yes, yes, I know -- less outstanding coins mean "we all win". The trouble with that argument is that it is a miner's argument. No early investor would prefer less coins -- not one! And there is a good reason for that in that it would be stupid to argue for less coins for less float. Now, if ICO investors were buying 100% of the float, that is a different matter entirely, but that is not the case with your ICO.
I like ICOs and am a regular investor, and as I say, your coin idea seems terrific to me. But, there is a fairness gap and I wanted to point it out.
Still, best of luck to you!
Early investors are who should matter in the case of an ICO (or one shouldn't have one).Let's put aside the fact that most miners are nothing but vultures picking at the coin until the "meat" is consumed and quickly moving on to the next coin. Let's even pretend they are mostly angels, just looking to provide a nice service so that everyone can succeed. They still are being favored here as they will know if the coin is good to go, how much enthusiasm has been generated by the ICO, and even the market price for it on Bittrex.
They have nearly zero risk and yet are being put on the same footing (or better) as people risking their BTC upfront. Any unsold coins should go to early investors for two reasons. First, it gives one an incentive to buy the ICO as it may result in getting more coins for the same investment. Secondly, it gets the ball rolling as far as enthusiasm is concerned. So, even if the early investors did not get "extra" shares, they are still happy in that the ICO sold out and demonstrated some initial excitement (and demand) for the coin.
Yes, yes, I know -- less outstanding coins mean "we all win". The trouble with that argument is that it is a miner's argument. No early investor would prefer less coins -- not one! And there is a good reason for that in that it would be stupid to argue for less coins for less float. Now, if ICO investors were buying 100% of the float, that is a different matter entirely, but that is not the case with your ICO.
I like ICOs and am a regular investor, and as I say, your coin idea seems terrific to me. But, there is a fairness gap and I wanted to point it out.
Still, best of luck to you!
This would be /very/ hard to coordinate with Bittrex. However, how would you feel about the total coin supply and mining reward being changed to match the amount of coins sold?
For instance, the 10 coin block rewards are currently assuming we sell all Envycoin's in ICO. If we only sold half, we could halve this reward so that really, you'd own that large of a stake in the supply. So, if you buy 1% of the ICO coins, you'd own 0.5% of the total supply (after it's mined out, in 10 years) regardless of how many coins are sold
If bittrex is ok with allowing this I am all for it because I want to protect ICO investors. The one problem I see is that Bittrex might not want to change this atleast while durning ICO under thier roof. But it is worth asking them. My number one goal is to protect people BTC investment.
September 29, 2014, 12:02:18 PM
I really like this concept, but I do have one bone of contention. Why are you destroying any unsold ICO coins? This is a tactic that favors miners over early investors (and crypto ICO's reputations are already in tough shape). The price is already pretty darned high with ENVY valued at around $750,000. Now, I realize that market cap is less relevant than most coins in that your plan involves an NAV. Still, market psychology wise, it matters.
Early investors are who should matter in the case of an ICO (or one shouldn't have one).Let's put aside the fact that most miners are nothing but vultures picking at the coin until the "meat" is consumed and quickly moving on to the next coin. Let's even pretend they are mostly angels, just looking to provide a nice service so that everyone can succeed. They still are being favored here as they will know if the coin is good to go, how much enthusiasm has been generated by the ICO, and even the market price for it on Bittrex.
They have nearly zero risk and yet are being put on the same footing (or better) as people risking their BTC upfront. Any unsold coins should go to early investors for two reasons. First, it gives one an incentive to buy the ICO as it may result in getting more coins for the same investment. Secondly, it gets the ball rolling as far as enthusiasm is concerned. So, even if the early investors did not get "extra" shares, they are still happy in that the ICO sold out and demonstrated some initial excitement (and demand) for the coin.
Yes, yes, I know -- less outstanding coins mean "we all win". The trouble with that argument is that it is a miner's argument. No early investor would prefer less coins -- not one! And there is a good reason for that in that it would be stupid to argue for less coins for less float. Now, if ICO investors were buying 100% of the float, that is a different matter entirely, but that is not the case with your ICO.
I like ICOs and am a regular investor, and as I say, your coin idea seems terrific to me. But, there is a fairness gap and I wanted to point it out.
Still, best of luck to you!
Early investors are who should matter in the case of an ICO (or one shouldn't have one).Let's put aside the fact that most miners are nothing but vultures picking at the coin until the "meat" is consumed and quickly moving on to the next coin. Let's even pretend they are mostly angels, just looking to provide a nice service so that everyone can succeed. They still are being favored here as they will know if the coin is good to go, how much enthusiasm has been generated by the ICO, and even the market price for it on Bittrex.
They have nearly zero risk and yet are being put on the same footing (or better) as people risking their BTC upfront. Any unsold coins should go to early investors for two reasons. First, it gives one an incentive to buy the ICO as it may result in getting more coins for the same investment. Secondly, it gets the ball rolling as far as enthusiasm is concerned. So, even if the early investors did not get "extra" shares, they are still happy in that the ICO sold out and demonstrated some initial excitement (and demand) for the coin.
Yes, yes, I know -- less outstanding coins mean "we all win". The trouble with that argument is that it is a miner's argument. No early investor would prefer less coins -- not one! And there is a good reason for that in that it would be stupid to argue for less coins for less float. Now, if ICO investors were buying 100% of the float, that is a different matter entirely, but that is not the case with your ICO.
I like ICOs and am a regular investor, and as I say, your coin idea seems terrific to me. But, there is a fairness gap and I wanted to point it out.
Still, best of luck to you!
The reason we are destroying them is because they are all mined and we have limited options. If we were to allow trading to begin and not destroy the market would fear we would dump all remaining coins as a money grab. But if a destroy them they will be out of circulation creating a rarer coin. Obviously this is not what we want but it is the better of two evils. And on the comment about the price. We will roughly $400k market cap after the ICO of we sell. The price was chosen because we needed enough financing to buy an amount of Hashlets that would make a difference. We went 50 million coins because it brought the price per coin in a range small investors could grab a descent amount of coins. If we sell out there will only be 3.67 million new coins over the next year and then roughly 2.5 million the remaining years. This means that the people that paid for their coins will far outweigh those who mined it. 14,400 coins will be mined per day. Which at current ICO rate is .28 BTC per day. This is a pretty small amount for a coin that would have a $400k market cap. And we run the risk that it will not be attractive to miners thus the network will not be secure. I just ran the new numbers since BTC has tanked and it does hurt the time to make back your coins by just holding it now has moved from 70 days when the price was 430 and it now is 114. But what other coin can say even if the price of the coin tanks you can hold it and you will make your money back? We can say this. Something that will greatly effect it is the price of BTC when we buy the hashlets and how many people buy the ICO.
September 29, 2014, 11:56:37 AM
I really like this concept, but I do have one bone of contention. Why are you destroying any unsold ICO coins? This is a tactic that favors miners over early investors (and crypto ICO's reputations are already in tough shape). The price is already pretty darned high with ENVY valued at around $750,000. Now, I realize that market cap is less relevant than most coins in that your plan involves an NAV. Still, market psychology wise, it matters.
Early investors are who should matter in the case of an ICO (or one shouldn't have one).Let's put aside the fact that most miners are nothing but vultures picking at the coin until the "meat" is consumed and quickly moving on to the next coin. Let's even pretend they are mostly angels, just looking to provide a nice service so that everyone can succeed. They still are being favored here as they will know if the coin is good to go, how much enthusiasm has been generated by the ICO, and even the market price for it on Bittrex.
They have nearly zero risk and yet are being put on the same footing (or better) as people risking their BTC upfront. Any unsold coins should go to early investors for two reasons. First, it gives one an incentive to buy the ICO as it may result in getting more coins for the same investment. Secondly, it gets the ball rolling as far as enthusiasm is concerned. So, even if the early investors did not get "extra" shares, they are still happy in that the ICO sold out and demonstrated some initial excitement (and demand) for the coin.
Yes, yes, I know -- less outstanding coins mean "we all win". The trouble with that argument is that it is a miner's argument. No early investor would prefer less coins -- not one! And there is a good reason for that in that it would be stupid to argue for less coins for less float. Now, if ICO investors were buying 100% of the float, that is a different matter entirely, but that is not the case with your ICO.
I like ICOs and am a regular investor, and as I say, your coin idea seems terrific to me. But, there is a fairness gap and I wanted to point it out.
Still, best of luck to you!
Early investors are who should matter in the case of an ICO (or one shouldn't have one).Let's put aside the fact that most miners are nothing but vultures picking at the coin until the "meat" is consumed and quickly moving on to the next coin. Let's even pretend they are mostly angels, just looking to provide a nice service so that everyone can succeed. They still are being favored here as they will know if the coin is good to go, how much enthusiasm has been generated by the ICO, and even the market price for it on Bittrex.
They have nearly zero risk and yet are being put on the same footing (or better) as people risking their BTC upfront. Any unsold coins should go to early investors for two reasons. First, it gives one an incentive to buy the ICO as it may result in getting more coins for the same investment. Secondly, it gets the ball rolling as far as enthusiasm is concerned. So, even if the early investors did not get "extra" shares, they are still happy in that the ICO sold out and demonstrated some initial excitement (and demand) for the coin.
Yes, yes, I know -- less outstanding coins mean "we all win". The trouble with that argument is that it is a miner's argument. No early investor would prefer less coins -- not one! And there is a good reason for that in that it would be stupid to argue for less coins for less float. Now, if ICO investors were buying 100% of the float, that is a different matter entirely, but that is not the case with your ICO.
I like ICOs and am a regular investor, and as I say, your coin idea seems terrific to me. But, there is a fairness gap and I wanted to point it out.
Still, best of luck to you!
This would be /very/ hard to coordinate with Bittrex. However, how would you feel about the total coin supply and mining reward being changed to match the amount of coins sold?
For instance, the 10 coin block rewards are currently assuming we sell all Envycoin's in ICO. If we only sold half, we could halve this reward so that really, you'd own that large of a stake in the supply. So, if you buy 1% of the ICO coins, you'd own 0.5% of the total supply (after it's mined out, in 10 years) regardless of how many coins are sold
September 29, 2014, 01:28:34 AM
Did you guys happen to recalculate ROI with the current BTC price since cost/maintenance will be higher?
I can run those numbers quick for current conditions.
Josh the CEO of Gawminers, says "Hashlets always be profitable" so im not concern about that.
We need to remember, BTC right now is to low in price, but what if the next month rise to 1,000 usd or in 2 or 3 years 3,000 or 4,000 usd, no matter the actual price of bitcoins, we need to be focus on save all the btc we can and hold them.
September 29, 2014, 05:21:46 AM
I really like this concept, but I do have one bone of contention. Why are you destroying any unsold ICO coins? This is a tactic that favors miners over early investors (and crypto ICO's reputations are already in tough shape). The price is already pretty darned high with ENVY valued at around $750,000. Now, I realize that market cap is less relevant than most coins in that your plan involves an NAV. Still, market psychology wise, it matters.
Early investors are who should matter in the case of an ICO (or one shouldn't have one).Let's put aside the fact that most miners are nothing but vultures picking at the coin until the "meat" is consumed and quickly moving on to the next coin. Let's even pretend they are mostly angels, just looking to provide a nice service so that everyone can succeed. They still are being favored here as they will know if the coin is good to go, how much enthusiasm has been generated by the ICO, and even the market price for it on Bittrex.
They have nearly zero risk and yet are being put on the same footing (or better) as people risking their BTC upfront. Any unsold coins should go to early investors for two reasons. First, it gives one an incentive to buy the ICO as it may result in getting more coins for the same investment. Secondly, it gets the ball rolling as far as enthusiasm is concerned. So, even if the early investors did not get "extra" shares, they are still happy in that the ICO sold out and demonstrated some initial excitement (and demand) for the coin.
Yes, yes, I know -- less outstanding coins mean "we all win". The trouble with that argument is that it is a miner's argument. No early investor would prefer less coins -- not one! And there is a good reason for that in that it would be stupid to argue for less coins for less float. Now, if ICO investors were buying 100% of the float, that is a different matter entirely, but that is not the case with your ICO.
I like ICOs and am a regular investor, and as I say, your coin idea seems terrific to me. But, there is a fairness gap and I wanted to point it out.
Still, best of luck to you!
Early investors are who should matter in the case of an ICO (or one shouldn't have one).Let's put aside the fact that most miners are nothing but vultures picking at the coin until the "meat" is consumed and quickly moving on to the next coin. Let's even pretend they are mostly angels, just looking to provide a nice service so that everyone can succeed. They still are being favored here as they will know if the coin is good to go, how much enthusiasm has been generated by the ICO, and even the market price for it on Bittrex.
They have nearly zero risk and yet are being put on the same footing (or better) as people risking their BTC upfront. Any unsold coins should go to early investors for two reasons. First, it gives one an incentive to buy the ICO as it may result in getting more coins for the same investment. Secondly, it gets the ball rolling as far as enthusiasm is concerned. So, even if the early investors did not get "extra" shares, they are still happy in that the ICO sold out and demonstrated some initial excitement (and demand) for the coin.
Yes, yes, I know -- less outstanding coins mean "we all win". The trouble with that argument is that it is a miner's argument. No early investor would prefer less coins -- not one! And there is a good reason for that in that it would be stupid to argue for less coins for less float. Now, if ICO investors were buying 100% of the float, that is a different matter entirely, but that is not the case with your ICO.
I like ICOs and am a regular investor, and as I say, your coin idea seems terrific to me. But, there is a fairness gap and I wanted to point it out.
Still, best of luck to you!
September 29, 2014, 02:28:18 AM
So, there has been a lot of FUD around Envycoin. A lot of it comes from a misunderstanding of the target for this currency. Here, I want to compile a FAQ of sorts to hopefully help people to understand these things.
### Why not just buy hashlets?
This is the most common question I've heard. Envycoin comes with a number of features that command a premium.
1. You can't buy a pizza with hashlets. Hashlets are not divisible
2. Hashlets are not easily sold or exchanged. This is especially true with their new Hashpoints system
3. Hashlets come in many varieties. Giving someone a Hashlet Prime is different from a Hashlet Zen.
4. Automatic reinvestment. To ensure overtime you ideally make more money than you are now.
5. Bitcoin features. Including stealth transactions, multisig, etc
6. We will benefit from GAW's new hashpoint system at a very large scale.
Although Envycoin can function as a proxy to Hashlets, this is not it's only goal. It's primary goal is a stable and non-volatile currency. Ideally, the mining inflation rate will equal the tendency to hold the coin for profit share revenue, yielding a fairly stable economic outlook.
### How do I know this isn't a scam?
Well, if this is a scam, it's a pretty shitty one. First off, Me and Tom, the Envycoin Team NEVER has access to the ICO funds. The only funds we have access to out of that is 5 BTC to repay Tom for the non-refundable ICO deposit.
Second, our idenities are not a secret by any means. If we run off, we know there will be repurcussions.
### Why 1000 BTC? Why not something smaller?
The more initial investment we have into the cloud mining platform, the more profit and faster ROI for everyone. With larger volumes, we get larger discounts.
### No way you'll get ROI in 70 days
This might be true. We took difficulty increases and everything into account when calculating this number, but it's always subject to change.
### Why isn't the wallet out yet?
We have decided to keep mining closed up until after the ICO. We have a functioning network, but it is kept in secret right now. I have code reviewed many coins and am a very well qualified coin developer. We will strive to give at least 24 hours notice before mining will begin
### GAW is just a bunch of scammers
Tom has vetted GAW and we think they are legitimate. We see no reason to not trust them.
However, we are not focused only on GAW. Our initial investment will most likely be with them, but with the reinvestment fund, we are going to be trying to invest in other cloud mining firms. This is to minimize the risk of trusting a single entity with this amount of money.
Btw, I've also posted this on my blog if you want something easy to tweet
http://earlz.net/view/2014/09/29/0423/envycoin-faq
### Why not just buy hashlets?
This is the most common question I've heard. Envycoin comes with a number of features that command a premium.
1. You can't buy a pizza with hashlets. Hashlets are not divisible
2. Hashlets are not easily sold or exchanged. This is especially true with their new Hashpoints system
3. Hashlets come in many varieties. Giving someone a Hashlet Prime is different from a Hashlet Zen.
4. Automatic reinvestment. To ensure overtime you ideally make more money than you are now.
5. Bitcoin features. Including stealth transactions, multisig, etc
6. We will benefit from GAW's new hashpoint system at a very large scale.
Although Envycoin can function as a proxy to Hashlets, this is not it's only goal. It's primary goal is a stable and non-volatile currency. Ideally, the mining inflation rate will equal the tendency to hold the coin for profit share revenue, yielding a fairly stable economic outlook.
### How do I know this isn't a scam?
Well, if this is a scam, it's a pretty shitty one. First off, Me and Tom, the Envycoin Team NEVER has access to the ICO funds. The only funds we have access to out of that is 5 BTC to repay Tom for the non-refundable ICO deposit.
Second, our idenities are not a secret by any means. If we run off, we know there will be repurcussions.
### Why 1000 BTC? Why not something smaller?
The more initial investment we have into the cloud mining platform, the more profit and faster ROI for everyone. With larger volumes, we get larger discounts.
### No way you'll get ROI in 70 days
This might be true. We took difficulty increases and everything into account when calculating this number, but it's always subject to change.
### Why isn't the wallet out yet?
We have decided to keep mining closed up until after the ICO. We have a functioning network, but it is kept in secret right now. I have code reviewed many coins and am a very well qualified coin developer. We will strive to give at least 24 hours notice before mining will begin
### GAW is just a bunch of scammers
Tom has vetted GAW and we think they are legitimate. We see no reason to not trust them.
However, we are not focused only on GAW. Our initial investment will most likely be with them, but with the reinvestment fund, we are going to be trying to invest in other cloud mining firms. This is to minimize the risk of trusting a single entity with this amount of money.
Btw, I've also posted this on my blog if you want something easy to tweet
http://earlz.net/view/2014/09/29/0423/envycoin-faqWow While I was typing my response I totally missed yours. Thanks earlz.
September 29, 2014, 01:38:32 AM
I just changed the spread sheet to current conditions and the price I have negotiated. Now remember these are number if we sell out. The sad part is when I started this the price was up around $480 and we would have been in the neighborhood of 30,000 MH/s
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1B2qTd_UwkVv-YdrCgP9h_Zyx1O6C-n-Lze2na0tvKPM/edit?usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1B2qTd_UwkVv-YdrCgP9h_Zyx1O6C-n-Lze2na0tvKPM/edit?usp=sharing
September 29, 2014, 01:18:30 AM
Did you guys happen to recalculate ROI with the current BTC price since cost/maintenance will be higher?
I can run those numbers quick for current conditions.
September 29, 2014, 01:00:30 AM
1.- For how long time you are going to pay the profits from Hashlets, to Envy Holders ? 3 months? 6 months? lifetime ?
2.- I suppose the daily profits gonna be shared daily right?
3.-And how this it works, we need to download the wallet and send our coins there, so you can check the amounts of coins we have and you gonna share the profits from hashlets to the people who own the coins and share the information with you, and then you send the btc to our personal btc address?
Thats mean, perhaps not all the people follow this steps, and the amount of profits gonna be higher for the people what follow all the steps, right?
You need to take in consideration perhaps more than a half of coins, are going to be trading on Bittrex, so who gonna own that profits?
I have some Primes and i know very well how Gawminers work, and i like it very much, i already got my ROI in few months.
For all investors i can say, you can trust in Josh from Gawminers.
2.- I suppose the daily profits gonna be shared daily right?
3.-And how this it works, we need to download the wallet and send our coins there, so you can check the amounts of coins we have and you gonna share the profits from hashlets to the people who own the coins and share the information with you, and then you send the btc to our personal btc address?
Thats mean, perhaps not all the people follow this steps, and the amount of profits gonna be higher for the people what follow all the steps, right?
You need to take in consideration perhaps more than a half of coins, are going to be trading on Bittrex, so who gonna own that profits?
I have some Primes and i know very well how Gawminers work, and i like it very much, i already got my ROI in few months.
For all investors i can say, you can trust in Josh from Gawminers.
1. Lifetime.
2. Profits will be paid out weekly at the start and moving to daily. The first few might been done by hand with a script running also so we can make sure it pays everyone correctly. Since this could be for thousands of people we will do it weekly until we can be sure the script will do it correctly and then will bring it to daily.
3. We have a block explorer and have already worked with them to add certain API commands so we can see how much each address has at a certain block. Basically a rich list but we can ask for what block we deem as the official block payouts will be based on. We are working on a signature to have for your addresses so we can confirm it is yours but the lead developer would have to explain that part more. And yes you have to sign up. This is stated everywhere you have to sign up. If you do not follow the steps we will have no way to send you the BTC so you have to fallow the simple steps we have. Yes we might only get 50% of the coins signed up. That means others will have higher profit. Your profit share is your percentage of the total coins signed up. I already run this type of deal on a smaller scale with Firecoin. Go ask all of the people signed up how they like. Ask if I have missed any payments. The point for Envy is to make this a much larger scale because I fully believe it will help the coin be more stable thus being a better coin to use for merchants.
Very nice, one more question, if i bought more coins, i can added it to my account to get more profits from hashlets?
Thanks for your last fast answer, im gonna help you on twitter, i like the idea of this coin
September 29, 2014, 01:10:22 AM
Did you guys happen to recalculate ROI with the current BTC price since cost/maintenance will be higher?
September 29, 2014, 01:09:45 AM
1.- For how long time you are going to pay the profits from Hashlets, to Envy Holders ? 3 months? 6 months? lifetime ?
2.- I suppose the daily profits gonna be shared daily right?
3.-And how this it works, we need to download the wallet and send our coins there, so you can check the amounts of coins we have and you gonna share the profits from hashlets to the people who own the coins and share the information with you, and then you send the btc to our personal btc address?
Thats mean, perhaps not all the people follow this steps, and the amount of profits gonna be higher for the people what follow all the steps, right?
You need to take in consideration perhaps more than a half of coins, are going to be trading on Bittrex, so who gonna own that profits?
I have some Primes and i know very well how Gawminers work, and i like it very much, i already got my ROI in few months.
For all investors i can say, you can trust in Josh from Gawminers.
2.- I suppose the daily profits gonna be shared daily right?
3.-And how this it works, we need to download the wallet and send our coins there, so you can check the amounts of coins we have and you gonna share the profits from hashlets to the people who own the coins and share the information with you, and then you send the btc to our personal btc address?
Thats mean, perhaps not all the people follow this steps, and the amount of profits gonna be higher for the people what follow all the steps, right?
You need to take in consideration perhaps more than a half of coins, are going to be trading on Bittrex, so who gonna own that profits?
I have some Primes and i know very well how Gawminers work, and i like it very much, i already got my ROI in few months.
For all investors i can say, you can trust in Josh from Gawminers.
1. Lifetime.
2. Profits will be paid out weekly at the start and moving to daily. The first few might been done by hand with a script running also so we can make sure it pays everyone correctly. Since this could be for thousands of people we will do it weekly until we can be sure the script will do it correctly and then will bring it to daily.
3. We have a block explorer and have already worked with them to add certain API commands so we can see how much each address has at a certain block. Basically a rich list but we can ask for what block we deem as the official block payouts will be based on. We are working on a signature to have for your addresses so we can confirm it is yours but the lead developer would have to explain that part more. And yes you have to sign up. This is stated everywhere you have to sign up. If you do not follow the steps we will have no way to send you the BTC so you have to fallow the simple steps we have. Yes we might only get 50% of the coins signed up. That means others will have higher profit. Your profit share is your percentage of the total coins signed up. I already run this type of deal on a smaller scale with Firecoin. Go ask all of the people signed up how they like. Ask if I have missed any payments. The point for Envy is to make this a much larger scale because I fully believe it will help the coin be more stable thus being a better coin to use for merchants.
Very nice, one more question, if i bought more coins, i can added it to my account to get more profits from hashlets?
Thanks for your last fast answer, im gonna help you on twitter, i like the idea of this coin
Exactly. You can add and subtract coins any time. The only thing you have to do is sign up and when we run the payout your coins have to be in that address. That will be the total for that pay out period.
September 29, 2014, 12:49:45 AM
1.- For how long time you are going to pay the profits from Hashlets, to Envy Holders ? 3 months? 6 months? lifetime ?
2.- I suppose the daily profits gonna be shared daily right?
3.-And how this it works, we need to download the wallet and send our coins there, so you can check the amounts of coins we have and you gonna share the profits from hashlets to the people who own the coins and share the information with you, and then you send the btc to our personal btc address?
Thats mean, perhaps not all the people follow this steps, and the amount of profits gonna be higher for the people what follow all the steps, right?
You need to take in consideration perhaps more than a half of coins, are going to be trading on Bittrex, so who gonna own that profits?
I have some Primes and i know very well how Gawminers work, and i like it very much, i already got my ROI in few months.
For all investors i can say, you can trust in Josh from Gawminers.
2.- I suppose the daily profits gonna be shared daily right?
3.-And how this it works, we need to download the wallet and send our coins there, so you can check the amounts of coins we have and you gonna share the profits from hashlets to the people who own the coins and share the information with you, and then you send the btc to our personal btc address?
Thats mean, perhaps not all the people follow this steps, and the amount of profits gonna be higher for the people what follow all the steps, right?
You need to take in consideration perhaps more than a half of coins, are going to be trading on Bittrex, so who gonna own that profits?
I have some Primes and i know very well how Gawminers work, and i like it very much, i already got my ROI in few months.
For all investors i can say, you can trust in Josh from Gawminers.
1. Lifetime.
2. Profits will be paid out weekly at the start and moving to daily. The first few might been done by hand with a script running also so we can make sure it pays everyone correctly. Since this could be for thousands of people we will do it weekly until we can be sure the script will do it correctly and then will bring it to daily.
3. We have a block explorer and have already worked with them to add certain API commands so we can see how much each address has at a certain block. Basically a rich list but we can ask for what block we deem as the official block payouts will be based on. We are working on a signature to have for your addresses so we can confirm it is yours but the lead developer would have to explain that part more. And yes you have to sign up. This is stated everywhere you have to sign up. If you do not follow the steps we will have no way to send you the BTC so you have to fallow the simple steps we have. Yes we might only get 50% of the coins signed up. That means others will have higher profit. Your profit share is your percentage of the total coins signed up. I already run this type of deal on a smaller scale with Firecoin. Go ask all of the people signed up how they like. Ask if I have missed any payments. The point for Envy is to make this a much larger scale because I fully believe it will help the coin be more stable thus being a better coin to use for merchants.
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