Topic: [ANN][HUC] Huntercoin - Worlds First Decentralized Game/World on the Blockchain - page 184. (Read 879724 times)

Great to see our coders engaging in constructive criticism and suggestions!

In the meantime - Poloniex seem to have some problems with their HUC wallet according to what I'm seeing on their chatting system, something to do with syncing as usual. The day when HUC will have a much lighter blockchain to handle will be a very happy day indeed 

@snailbrain

when i talk about increasing huc value and pump & dump mentality, i don't say that to you, but i reply to a general mood i've sniffed in this thread where people complain, rightly, about their (at the moment) failed investment and what i wanted to state is that for the good of the game, it's better to think in long term then in short term, it's a matter of trust for players.
perhaps my english didn't helped me and i haven't understood



so you are admitting that the planned change would not change this aspect
this is what i wanted to point out, some changes maybe don't give benefit respect current state


no i don't think that. i think that everyone that take over the map, kill the game and i agree with you that this shouldn't happen for the good of the game

I agree, but maybe we think differently about how to achieve that goal


here comes the main different point of view we have.
I think that this is a game, that has a benefit of giving you a chance to earn money.
This is not a job or something more then a game because at the moment huntercoin isn't useful except to play and trade, because there are no service available in hucs, no goods bound to it, etc... so, at the moment, this is just a game and an innovative (technologically speaking) cryptocurrency.

considered this, supposing huc value = 0.0001, comparing to current btc  (price is so low actually and very unpredictable that would be easy to jump in no time to higher values) this mean that to play with 20 hunters on the map, you spend (in $) ~ 57$ (and consider even that new players are noobs about the game and could loose easily all in no time, so you will not have that user back) and i think that not much players could afford that, and if you narrow the catchment area the coin value decrease to the bottom.

If you talk about fair distribution, you have to think to "poor players" too.



sure... but while an human disconnected hunter stand still, a bot could easily move away from enemies...


clearly misunderstood, you know i know the situation and how the coin was born.
I just said a pray to everyone, to grow slowly, keeping in mind that the goal is spreading the coin around, giving a chance to anyone (not just wealthy people) to play the game
I stil don't understand if you'd prefer to have less player that play the game, but spend a lot, or more player that spend less
talking about blockchain size of course less is better, but for a succesfull coin we should have xy times current player (i mean real users) on the map

as i already said, i don't think so and this goes against a fair distribution, except if a general at that point costs a fraction of 1 huc of course


you mean that actually if you self destruct on spawn area you recycle yourself? i didn't knew that and if this is true this would throw away all efforts to prevent recycling ?!
and if you mean that you just blow somewhere (where there are only your hunters on that cell, otherwise you split your coin with others) then it's not the solution because if you are
away from bank area you can't wait hours to do that :/



i agree that no one knows the future, but i know that, personally, with current rates I'll play less, even because i think that major problem now aren't bot (that i can handle pretty easily with my client) but blockchain size/speed, because new players can't join and if the game isn't accessible by many players, you can do any changes you want in mechanics, but you'll keep to have few players (of course this is my thought)

having said that, I respect choices you'll take, but i keep my doubt, in the hope that they are dispelled

@mithrilman

Thanks mate.. always like your contributions..

note: the rise in cost of general has nothing (really) to do with value of hucs/btc (not my intention).. in fact, i'm not sure it would make a big difference tbh, if any (coins are not lost, there will be the same flow of hucs). (of course by fixing issues it should hopefully). If it was 10000 hucs per general - it may? . It's more to do with quantity of coins on the map and what you can collect, and risk.
My priority is making the game more fair and playable, and a success.. also remembering that this is new, and in all honesty, no one can really predict what will happen, so, there is some guess work of course.
Obviously, everyone wants the value of HUC to increase, this is what every crypto currency wants (maybe not namecoin, except for the investors).


? they can now and have

There is more to it than that though... it is to do with upkeep costs.

1   1440      8640      432
2   2880      17280   864
3   4320      25920   1296
4   5760      34560   1728
5   7200      43200   2160
6   8640      51840   2592
7   10080   60480   3024
8   11520   69120   3456
9   12960   77760   3888
10   14400   86400   4320
11   15840   95040   4752
12   17280   103680   5184
13   18720   112320   5616
14   20160   120960   6048
15   21600   129600   6480
16   23040   138240   6912


this just a basic table... days, blocks, and amount of coins you can get from game assuming you can collect on the map  7 6 hucs/block.. last column is coins/general cost (assuming 20). If there are more generals on the map than the last column, then someone somewhere is losing money , unless they are actually hunting/fighting. (note, there is a more to it than that, but keeping it simple - i created this table when contemplating expiry and wondering what a generals life expectancy should be.. so when thinking about disaster and randomness, it's more complex - so the table is flawed to some degree)

The basics are:
If the cost per general is too low, the risk is too low, so the map will be packed (probably by a bot master)
by limiting the amount of people on the map, it should be more about intelligence/strat/skill than pure numbers.

If cost of general is 3.5 HUCs, a bot master can control up to 6x more generals before still being in profit (if dominating the map).
assuming they want guaranteed profit due to general costs, they would have to dominate the map with less than the numbers on the last column for that duration (assuming expiry and not disaster - but basic idea still there).
By limiting the maximum amount of generals which is profitable (and increasing to 20hucs), the game will be more fighting (people killing other generals).

It may be that the bots turn into killer bots  (like bgb, of which your client is quite good at "winning".. i think would at least change the game and be more fun.

looking at the current stats, i'd say the bot master is controlling 20k-25k+ hunters - maybe 10k generals.

also we cannot put Generals + Hunters on creation, because we go back to the problem in which you can create 1000 teams, send only the hunters out, then when hunters dead, destruct generals and recover 96% of the cost.. or, when disaster comes, recycle them quick before they are poisoned. Unless, as someone else suggested, the generals don't drop the value - but i'm not sure about this atm - needs another month of simulating - i like a bit about the idea that maybe even the general cost is actually destroyed  (that method probably would increase huc value, but  that would need considerable discussion imo).


They can do this now, exactly the same except with no risk at all. Disaster adds random risk, increasing cost increases risk more.
also, You are thinking that someone taking over the map together with higher general cost will increase the value of huc, this is not the case. If the map is dominated by one person (like now) this decreases the price - because 1. They will dump at least half the coins none stop (like now), and 2. people will just think huntercoin is useless... may as well just create a PoS, 100% premined, and sell them on an exchange. The coins need to be distributed properly like when huntercoin first started.


20 Genenrals is 400 HUCs.. 20 is quite a lot for 1 human player imo. It's not a big amount when it's more about making money not mostly for fun. For a bot master to control 2k hunters is 40k HUCs. Yes it will by more expensive for humans . but, an even higher risk for bot masters controlling thousands. +, hearts should be more available (and more wanted).


is possible, and we can change the fee later on.. but, personally, if the game was fair but cost 1 btc yet you could make 1000s of bitcoin, i think this is still playable and probably make huntercoin even more popular... but that's just my opinion.


?? if there isn't a safe area, bots will die as well, whether playing or not.


 it's nothing at all to do with "artificially" increasing the value of HUC in this way... also, i'm a little bit insulted with that comment..
The goal is to increase the value of HUC- but not in the way you are saying there, i don't think you understand tbh.
If the value of huc was 1 BTC, i think Huntercoin would be extremely popular.
but don't' accuse me of pump and dump -- otherwise i'd have premined 10%+ like every other alt or done IPO.

Drastic times changes require drastic measures. The game has changed. no one is increasing the value of huc in pump and dump fashion, and i don't even understand completely what you mean to be fair.
I don't think you have thought about it enough.. honestly.. originally, it was still going to be 1 huc with disaster.
as i said at the top of this post.. increasing huc value has nothing to do with price of general, and i don't think it would because of that.. hopefully the value of huc would increase because it would be more playable and less controllable by 1 bot master.

If someone wants to stop playing, all they need to do is go to bank area, self destruct and bank the coins (not as good as sleep though). sleep command is too much atm.. but maybe in the future once everything else is stable it can be done. but.. that's the risk. if you stop playing, you are going to be dead. Remember, Huntecoin is supposed to be a human mineable crypto currency, not just any game, otherwise why would we build it in a blockchain?
I think sleep could maybe be exlpoited anyway.

Still, things can be changed.. but comparing to the current costs should not be a deciding factor.. Think of it more as a complete rehash.

please feel free to comment.. but remembering that no one can say what would be best except Chronos
I do think this change is a step in the right direction, even if it's not perfect.. a big change is needed, and this is a big change... if it doesn't work as expected then we'll rehash again using all the knowledge we have gained from how the game is now and how it will be with the changes.

What would be good is if the bots weren't so selfish and contributed now that they have a few coins... but, it is good what they are doing in a sense, so we can learn and fix it.
Huntercoin was made for this purpose.

it works for me mate.. as i said, it must be something to do with latest ubuntu.
Give it some time and someone will reply, don't worry <3

Hi snailbrain,

It's a headless unit, so qt is no good.

I saw that guide earlier, if I install libdb5.1++-dev - it wants to remove libdb4.8++-dev - which is the db that all my other wallets use. Is there not a db that is compatible with all the wallets?

I can't believe it's so hard to find basic information about both namecoin & huntercoin tbh - my eyes are bleeding after 4 hours of messing around with this.....surely it would make sense to have all this information in the OP? It would save alot of people alot of time.

if people know it's coming, they can just recycle all their Generals.. so people can still roam around with 5000 generals with no risk

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Dependencies.. strangely i seem to have removed them from the website.. they were on the old chronokings forum which i have removed.

also.. there has been some reorganisation of namecoin wiki

I found this which seems to be correct.. although for the daemon there is something else (some other dependency - pack, libdev or something?)

https://github.com/namecoin/wiki/blob/master/BuildNamecoinQTFromSource.mediawiki

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/annhuc-huntercoin-released-use-other-thread-444061

I believe that it's probably  related to 14.04, and it not including some stuff by default - again, i'm not 100% sure... i'm using 12.04 and just do make.. and on windows I use easywinbuilder.

can you compile the qt?

i've asked domob, maybe he can help

When the disaster triggers, will it come out of the blue or is it determined some time (2 days or so) in advance?

I think knowing the time in advance is better.
The day before the disaster (if known) would be interesting to play when all coins from center come out, and players
(especially those who can afford to hoard their coins) need some time to prepare for a longish playing session after the disaster.
Bots are always ready.

Thanks IYFTech. I did read that the repository version of miniupnpc for 14.04 does not install correctly sometimes, so I just done a manual install as suggested - no difference. Still, I'm grasping at straws here........I need to check I have the right dependencies installed, but I can't find a list anywhere.......

Can someone please post a list of required dependencies for huntercoin/namecoin on Ubuntu Trusty here? Pleeeeeease?

Thanks 

the more i think about such expensive hunters, the more i'm afraid, i try to explain:

While from an investor point of view, this is a moves to increase huc value and i can understand that all would be happy to see increased huc value, from a player point of view, i'm afraid this will kill the game, mainly because:

- 1 people with big money, could easily overtake the map and current bot masters already have much hucs that they can invest, and disaster won't save that because they can afford to buy many hunters to recover their money left on the ground, more than casual players anyway.
moreover, now someone could invest in hucs since its value is so low, then use bought hucs to overtake the map when hucs value will increase, causing a game over.

- 2 with high prices to create a team, casual player will have very few hunters to move, and playing with very few hunters is very annoying because the game is slow and you'll face very high idle time and all know that a bored player is a player that will stop to play

- 3 if/when hucs increase in value, those 20 hucs will be far more valuable and this will discourage even more new players

- 4 if an hunter costs so much and without a safe area, a casual player will easily lost it's hunters when he log off, while bots could survive easily


with current propsed prices and mechanics (20 hucs for 1 player that has just 1 hunter), this mean that a team costs 60 times current value (previously 1 player = 1 huc/3hunter = 0.33333..) and it's really too much imho.
Please don't try to artificially increase hucs value now this way, because this would end in loosing players and so, as a consequence, huc value in long term, don't think in a pump & dump way

My proposal is to increase costs by ~10, a fair compromise, and you can do that in two way:
a) - change the player creation cost to 10, preserving 3 hunters
b) - change the player creation cost to 3.5, creating just 1 hunter

imho it's funnier to have 3 hunters to move, i know that you want to fight the recycle problem, but recycling is also the only way casual players have to recover a "game session" investment (see problem 4 above)
I think that increasing huc cost will not solve bot problem but will increase game problems and if you want to increase anyway the cost, at least you should implement a safe area where player could disconnect safely, or better, instead of a safe area, you can have a new kind of transaction that get off hunters from a map after some blocks are generated

e.g. you send a "sleep" command, that will cause your player to be removed from the map after 40 blocks (20 minutes), and drop any coin he has on, but recovering player cost)
this way that command won't be used to escape from an hot zone, but will preserve casual player from loosing money when they have to disconnect

IMHO this feature is mandatory if a player cost too much

I remember I also had difficulties compiling the huntercoin daemon even though I had namecoin installed. I can't remember what the dependencies are, and trying to find a list of needed dependencies for namecoin/huntercoin is mission impossible - there just isn't a definitive list anywhere.

Maybe if someone who knows what they are could post them here.......? Sticky it to the OP even - it would save a lot of faffing about.

Edit: Your make command is correct, so that's not the problem 

Hi,
if you can compile namecoind you should be able to compile huntercoind... hopefully someone can help
i'm not so great on linux but all i do to compile (once all dependencies are installed) is

from src folder

probably it has something to do with using 14.04, or even a new update.

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Those wanting to donate to Domob --- this is his address HBkxA5QmYSATFoPN1wFk8eBkgwPpY97Mfu

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Hi

1. Yes they will drop on the ground, and miners will get 4%.

2. There will be no safe zone, at least not yet. Not sure what you mean, - bots will die as well. Also, the more Generals you have (at 20 hucs), the more you are going to lose. People controlling many generals will need to work out how many coins they can get, and the cost involved in getting them, and how much they could lose. Honestly, for now, with 3day minimum disaster time, this should be ok. but, if not we will tweak some more.

If there is safe zone it won't matter, bots wil have the exact same playing field, so it won't help humans more than it would help bots.
The only way to limit "stuff", is by making it more expensive and more risk to play with 1000 generals.

Humans controlling just 5 Generals or 10, or 20 isn't so bad if a disaster comes imo... but someome controlling 1000 or 2000 (20k-40k hucs) isbn't going to take the risks so much after day 3.

The first 3 days after disaster may be where a problem lies, but for now, this change is already quite big,  we will/may add or change things later on. There should be up to 17 days after in which it's high risk for someone to be walking around with 1000s of Generals.
Also, we had thought there could be a small issue in the first 3 days, but nothing compared to what we see on the map now.

As for losing coins after a disaster, if you've just started playing - it might be considered a bonus if it happens

again, it might be we need to tweak some stuff later on

Greets guys,

Having some difficulties compiling the daemon here. I want to add HUC to my p2pool node and have already compiled 5 other wallet daemons - including NMC - without issues, so I know it's not a dependency thing. Here's a copy of the error I keep getting:

obj/db.o: In function `void CDiskBlockIndex::Unserialize(CDataStream&, int, int)':
db.cpp:(.text._ZN15CDiskBlockIndex11UnserializeI11CDataStreamEEvRT_ii[_ZN15CDiskBlockIndex11UnserializeI11CDataStreamEEvRT_ii]+0x175): undefined reference to `int ReadWriteAuxPow(CDataStream&, boost::shared_ptr&, int, int, CSerActionUnserialize)'
collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
make: *** [huntercoind] Error 1

I'm running Xubuntu 14.04 64bit & my make syntax is:

make -f Makefile clean; make -f Makefile USE_UPNP=1

I get the same error if I try to compile without upnp also......

Hope you can help me out - would love to get into this coin 

Thanks.

You need some coins to start playing. I'll happily send some over for you to try the game if you want.

Thanks for the reply SnailBrain. It's good to get a clearer idea of how the team is operating at the moment. The only reason why I was asking was because Mithrilman's client was coded differently and I was wondering why. The update I'm looking forward to the most is the pruning one - once that's settled, I'll have Bittrex adding HUC and I can also start preparing a marketing effort at the start of July. Hopefully by then the major updates will be ready

Is it possible to start playing the game when you don't have any coins yet? Or does it require making a purchase first (on an exchange)?

Think I said it before, but not sure, maybe only "thought it" lol:

1. When "poisoning strikes", will coins drop where hunter dies? (aka 20HUC / General + 0 for "normal hunters")

2. So every player will lose everything basically?? Aka there is no "safe zone" like I thought would be a good idea to "have a chance saving the general" - having all human players stand there with nothing after disaster/poisoning will mean only bots after that, or at least a lot more - they have more coins + resources to overtake imho.

I believe 2. is a real issue, the casual players will only play with way less players and the bots will just cash all in, knowing they will have another 3 days of full cashing after a poisoning... Not sure how to prevent it, but again, one or more "safe zones" would be an idea. Yes, bots will use them too, but humans can play "relatively safe" just around safe zones if they wish and "park" their hunters there instead of just losing them all the time - especially since recycling is no option anymore, having them "overnight" is a dead sentence in the new scenario. (20HUC == huge target + not online to react)

Other than that I am sure it will be heaps of fun (or not, if you are not online when it happens..) - like an "event" every few days, go HUC go!!!

One of my favorite, simple thing you added is the waypoints. I can send a guy with coins on him auto to the bank, then back to his spot, as long as i make sure there are no enemies in the way that could kill me. A lot safer than stopping on the spot before the bank and just sitting there.

Was this today, not all that long ago? I was playing a few green guys during that assault too =). Whoever's attack was pretty decent.

in the meantime, there has been an invasion of red at the base of the green and I took the opportunity to prove my client and shoot five minutes of action wher you can see how you can handle an invasion and/or bots, taking advantage from them

here a pic of the reds coming



here is the video that show 1st 5 minute where i setup the environment for the battle (it start where i already had targeted many reds)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3mWzjzcKyE&feature=youtu.be

at the end, i collected ~50 hucs (don't know if reds where bot or not, but thanks to whoever he was )

Any chance of zombies rather than disease?

yep well said.. everyone is welcome and should contribute.. to speed things up

this project was done as fair and square as possible.

Domob is lead C++ coder, he is working on it every day btw...and he's married, studying/working... we'll let him have a break soon, don't worry :d and he's working on namecoin. currently all patches/work done for namecoin and huntercoin have been ported both ways (bar disasters). so the project is benefiting others also

The reason there has been no update for a month, is due to a couple of things...

1. optimizing code for disaster
2. optimizing code in preparation for pruning
3. Testing all of the above.
4. as well as the code being extremely delicate, so are Game Mechanics - we've been through many scenarios.. each time we find some flaws.

although, there have been a lot of updates, i just haven't released any binaries, as the changes won't effect most people atm. Those that use github can see the latest.

Disaster as it stands:

Instead of a complete wipe (which, until further optimizations (or faster hardware?)  takes too long to process) there will be a "poison" - like a plague.
When the disaster hits, everyone will be poisoned, and given a random life expectancy, between 1 and 50 blocks (maybe 100.. waiting on test results).. they will all die over the space of 50 blocks (or 100) at random intervals (set at time of disaster to limit possible miner manipulation).

another sort of advantage to this, is that if miners tried to some how find disaster blocks only, then they would not get all 4% of coins on the map, as they would need to mine the next 50 (or 100) blocks to get them all.

This isn't set, and even if we use the following parameters, we may change at a later time if things do not turn out as expected.

Poison will trigger on average every 10 days.
Poison cannot trigger within 3 days after the last poison.
Max duration until Poison WILL happen, hasn't really been set yet (maybe 20 days)

calling it poison for now, but it may be called Cleansing or just disaster.

We won't be adding expiry (life expectancy) but that is possible.

Cost of General:

When you create a Team, you will have no Hunters, only 1 general - you can still pickup hearts.

Cost of General = 20 HUCs

-

thoughts are welcome, but please answer with why you don't think it will work, instead of "it won't work".
Honestly, have been through 100s of scenareos to make the game more playable.. this seems the best for now.. if it needs changing or tweaking, we are there to support/fix it.