Topic: [ANN][ICO] «Envion» Most Profitable Self-Expanding Crypto Infrastructure - page 14. (Read 125689 times)

I hope so 2 but my mainconcern atm is that I(we) get our invested money back whats left of it and making sure the Founders/MW are not claiming any of their tokens to steal our money.
Im sure we  wont get 100% back  the missing funds i guess we can try and sue the Founders and MW for it seems like a lot of Mistakes where made on their side and probably some criminal acts but thats for the lawyers to decide.
I personally will definatly look for legal ways to make them pay other then just giving whats left of the money they stole from us back if that compensation will be in money or jail time for them i dont care to much about.
 

I don't know for that matter either, but I hope the scammers can go to jail because of their actions that cannot be forgiven like cheating a lot of people and of course they can be scammers still roaming freely

Is there any hope that these scammers will effectively end up in jail where they strongly deserve to be?

You come here and say how smart you are you knew in feb  .. but you don't back that up with anything ..

Your saying im so smart I knew back in feb it was nothing and everyone else was a idiot that still believed.

Then your surprised I call you on that shit .. hmm k .

well, you may know as well, that I have existed before I created the account, so the account age may not be a valid source of judgement. We also don't have any intention in naming our clients. But guess what, transactions on various coins are still getting confirmed, so that may give a hint, that there are still countless mining operations in duty.

Instead of attacking you may bring an argument? Envion promised a lot, their math was naiv in the first place (like they could convert investment into units instantly), they didn't show anything as promised in january and that non-showing kept until today - many individual mining operations which started at the same time DID work.

"wise men" right your accounts first post november this year  and the statements made in your posts dont really scream well informed at all.

Care to Name this successfull mining operation? .. if your gonna say IRM your a clueless fool.

important update for all Envion investors

www.envion-konkurs.ch is the official appointed liquidator. Please follow instructions and news from them.

PS:
It is now safe to leave all founder controlled social media channels (telegram, facebook, medium, twitter)and stop following their social media controlled by Founders).

Back in february, when there was still no proof of working units and still no dividends paid, it was pretty clear for me, that this project will fail or even was designed to fail. There was a lot of fuzz around envion and because of their failure we was able to convince several people to invest into their own mining farm instead, which we setup and manage for them with our inhouse software solution.

Compared to envion, their investment did generate money from day 1 after completion - they are considered "wise men" now (in comparison to envion investors) - needless to say, that their farms haven't paid off yet, but they do generate a decent amount of monthly income.

Hey Zabivelli, stop shilling these actors. Maybe you are one of them. That would explain many things.

You have simply no idea about the ongoings and (additionally) about the past of Mr. Luckow. He was convicted in Germany, is the main actor in many shady businesses (proven). His name is in the debt register of Germany. Bravo. A real businessman with an ethical attitude. Michael Luckow lied to us over the full period of the ICO and all year long.

Just the latest story. Read on
fake: "We will fight the liquidation"
truth: "no appeal was introduced" (Die Rechtsmittelfrist ist inzwischen unbenutzt abgelaufen und der Entscheid ist somit rechtskräftig)

To speak with your words: zero, nothing, nada came from this guy to protect investor interests. Not speaking about the token sold by them to make money for themselve

Michael:
the biggest amount of BTC/ETH was sold for fiat earlier this year MW was speaking of different amounts around 50m fiat and we expect about 80-100m tokens after removal of non-kyc-tokens etc.

we expect the payment per token much higher but maybe not 90% like MW predicts.

It is important to conceptually seperate ico investors and token holders when looking on the situation. For the liquidation we have at the moment the ico investors should not be relevant. Relevant should be: who has the rights? As the token was created to make those rights transferable by transfering the token all rights are usually at the token holder. Not every ico investor is still a token holder and not every token holder is an ico investor.

The easiest way to stay up to date concerning how to get money as a token holder is to visit https://envion-founders.org/liquidation/ - we might also install a newsletter there to make it even easier.

We are speaking to many lawyers who are deeply into the topic and sending the money to those who have the rights is the only thing that makes sense. In case you have bought the right to participate in all mining profits and the company messes is up and uses the money that is exclusively bound to your rights for anything else then giving it to you as the person who has the right to get all profits out of the money that is bound to those rights, you would suffer wrong. Every court would most likely see it that way. Based on the current situation we are confident that in case of the decided liquidation the owners of the rights will get the money that is left after liquidation. This is not exactly written anywhere but this is the only thing that makes sense and legally and morally. Do not forget your very strong rights that the prospectus gave you!


Please do not get confused of the "90%" that MW communicates. Whatever he means by that could not mean you get 0,9 USD per token. Some people asked us whether they should buy until 0,9 USD which shows us that there is confusion. The amount paid per token might be much higher than the price at exchanges at the moment but we do not expect it to be 0,9 USD per token as the total amount of tokens and the total amount of money would have to change a lot from that what MW gave in the past.
t.me/EnvionFounders/102911


We do not speak of returning money to any buyer but giving money to people that hold rights. And the right that is usually behind one token is always the same. That is why everyone has to get the same amount for the same "amount of rights". As discussed before while and after the ICO it would be the same in case of paying out mining profits: the amount is always based on the number of rights, not the amount paid.

They don't have access to those funds .. However they sold 3.2 million tokens that we can prove from their "tokens are locked for 6 months don't spread fud" supply during the lockout period on the open market while they lied to the investors about wonderfull progress being made.


https://medium.com/@EnvionWatch/fact-checking-envions-top-10-misleading-communication-claims-238e3bdabc9e





The picture and the medium post are NOT made by ME just other concerned investors.

Actually im NOT saying that MW is the good guy at all you should make more of an effort trying to understand what you read.

If you don't know what the Founders lied about then you don't know anything and there is no point in talking to you.

Im done getting trolled by you you know nothing about the situation.

How is it technically possible to end up losing one million $ when you have just collected - or should I say stolen - 100 M$ from thousands of investors?

So you saying that MW is the good guy, by doing nothing and not communicating at all... What lies?

So you have read 0 from MW ,, that explains plenty ..


So far i havent seen anyone say MW is the Goodguy .. what i can Prove is that the Founders have LIED to US Many times .. go ahead and read what they where communicating to their investors feb to may and get back to me.

You fool need to be grateful that the founders are AT LEAST communicating with us, where are your buddies Matthias and Van Aubel? What are they doing for the investors?... zero, nada, nothing.. These two crooks are only busy with making plans how to steal money from investors pockets!

Founders lost more than a million of their OWN money trying to keep the project going on. What did MW or VA?

Michael (official Envion founder member):

At the moment we do not speak of activities of the regulator. The regulator (Finma) did not finish the investigation. What we have on the table is a decision of a swiss court to liquidate because of missing auditors. Liquidation is not a "refund". What the process (simplified) includes is handle all liabilities before the company gets closed. When it comes to identifying all liabilities, it gets pretty complex and different stances are possible. You could also argue that the contract says in the case of liquidation the token holder gets nothing -> no liability there -> most of the money to Aubel/MW. But would that make sense? The good news is that common sense is also applied. In our view the distribution of leftover assets to token holders (in case of liquidation that includes the give-up of the project) is reasonable, fairest and has a very strong chain of reasoning. Like stated before all has to be decide by the liquidator and all could still change with the decision of Finma at the end of their investigation.

Michael:
I do not know which "normally" you mean but please remember, that liquidation does not mean any refund in the first place. It could mean many things and hopefully tokenholders will get money and if you paid money for your tokens beforehand you could kind of call the fact of getting money a "refund" but please be careful with the word while discussing the liquidation. "Refund" or "money back" is not really directly what is on the table. I do not want to scare you as I believe there will be a fair solution but in the worst case scenario MW/Aubel find a way to make happen what is written in the contract: "It is expected the Tokens qualify as a bond instrument (Anleihensobligation). Further, the Tokens carry no right to receive any dividend nor any liquidation proceeds in case that the Company will be liquidated for any reason." - I asked some lawyers about this and they assured me that it is not realistic that it gets decided in a way that token holders / investors do not get anything but keep in mind that liquidation means giving the decision in the hand of someone totally new whos first contact might be MW. Again: I trust in a fair decision but trust not always ends good for us - as we know.

They didnt buy or build any units with the ICO funds ASK them .. they made those before and we got 0 From the mined proceeds ..

Any costs they are going to be declaring will be bullshit because they where unable to do anything after MW locked up the funds.

Im very curious how they will justify taking our money and what they supposedly spend it on because nothing was operational.

well, that doesn't answer my question - I don't care if it was converted into fiat. They had expenses, they built units (most likely paid with fiat) - so how much money (usd, eur whatever) was spent in the process and what happens to fixed assets like finished units. They were "active" several months, what had they done during this time.

Honestly, I suppose this will still last months or years until something happens, if something will happen at all.

"No they didnt purchace anything with ICO funds ML and MW had a falling out in China then everything got locked down and no progress since The Founders where blatantly lying to everyone untill they got found out in May since then they have been spinning one story after another."

Exactly sluppy. And the lying and misleading is ongoing.

All the founders (and Laurent) want is to take as much money out of this project as possible. They never cared about investors interests.
Still blocking others from having access to the facebook/telegram/whatever channels.

You should read on alternative websites about this
telegram investors group: https://t.me/envioninvestors
twitter: www.twitter.com/EnvionWatch
web: https://fintelegram.news/envion-causa-liquidation-allegedly-ordered

DON'T TRUST ANY OF THESE ACTORS