Author

Topic: [ANN][KARM] Karma / ₭ / X11 - page 377. (Read 583278 times)

hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
May 13, 2014, 05:52:54 AM
I've said it before and will do so again. PoS is a fundamentally different paradigm to PoW.

I agree... PoW is essentially: You do some work you get coins. PoS is essentially: you do nothing, if you have coins you get more coins.

and this is why I have such a fundamental problem with PoS because it guarantees that people will get something for nothing.
Not only does that break the laws of economics but it also breaks the laws of physics.

to put it another way in laymans terms.. Quite simply PoS is the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. Landowners reaping all the rewards while the peasants  who work the land get very little.

that system of serfdom was flawed in Medieval times and it is just as flawed today.
This is why I have a philosophical problem with PoS.

And no that doesn't make me a communist just because I believe that people should be rewarded fairly and equaly for their work. PoW is exactly how a free market system should work. If you subscribe to free market principles then you should believe that everyone has a free and equal chance to generate wealth purely on the basis of how much work they are able to do and how efficiently they can do it. this is the Proof of work system.

the problem with today generation is (and I'm not even that old), that they have a sense of entitlement that everything should be handed to them based on who got there first. this is PoS which I like to call POS.  Grin "My grand daddy found this land and stole it from Injuns so everything you dig up on this land is MINE..." lolz



OT: Alphi, as you have argued several times against any sort of price manipulation, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on Nautiluscoin. Seems a big part of their plan is a fund to stabilize the market value and the coin is founded by a financial expert with lots of experience in the field. Do you also think their plan is illegal?


this also goes back to free market principles and creating a level playing field for all participants, be they miners, traders or users.
the reason why I bring up the question of legality here is because most of us (and I do acknowledge not all of us) live within the Anglo Sphere or what some people might call "The West" and by living where we do, most of us unfortunately are forced to abide by rules and laws which are mostly dictated by the USA. (you can read up on how the US uses trade pacts to push their laws onto other countries, but that's how it is)

with that being said.. I cant comment on Nautiluscoin because I don't know about it.. but I can say this much.
Funds themselves aren't illegal. It is how they are used that determines whether they are legal or not. Holding Karma the way Karma Shares does and investing it into projects to build products and services which grow the Karma economy clearly is not illegal. However if someone at KarmaShares for example was using those funds to trade on open markets and try and game the system by selling when he puts out fake positive news and then buying when he puts out fake negative news then he could potentially get himself into some very serious legal problems.. (and i'm not saying that would happen this is just an example)

Fake buy walls and sell walls are essentially the same thing as putting out fake news and that's what makes them illegal

you can read more about market manipulation here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_manipulation
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/manipulation.asp

and yes I know people may argue that these rules only govern SEC registered securities.. but no they actually don't.
The SEC covers both Securities and Investments. Investments being anything that people put their money into in the hopes of getting a financial return. So it doesn't matter whether its Cryptocoins, trading cards, or apple trees, if people put hard earned money into a scheme like Karma expecting to get some kind of return and then end up losing a bunch of it due to the being ripped off in some way.. then the SEC can and probably will get involved.

(It's the SEC in the USA but every country in the Anglo-sphere I mentioned has similar governing bodies. Also the US authorities get involved wherever enough US citizens have been ripped off regardless of what country the investment scheme is located in)

Anyways sorry for the long post I might read up on nautilus later on and see what they are actually doing before I comment more as Market stabilization is not the same thing as Price Manipulation/Fixing. I usually just post the kind of advisories that I do because I've been investing for many years and I don't want to see people going to jail for doing stupid things and thinking that they are operating in a legal grey area outside the laws of their country.


It think with Karma we need to be more ethical and keep our noses cleaner than most..  because without this unique selling point and community there really is little difference between Karma and all the other Me2 litecoin clones out there.
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
May 13, 2014, 05:23:55 AM
I just don't like it being based on the value of the coin (the decision I mean).
that is the ONLY reason PoS is being pushed at all,  because greedy impatient people don't want to wait for real growth.

they just want the price to go back up so they can dump their coins and not feel so bad about their failed investment decisions.

the price has stabilized.. messing with the coins core code now would only be asking for more problems and volatility.

It's not the only reason, but certainly the most popular one. The IMO most important and legitimate reason (network security) could also be achieved in different ways (algo-switch, merged-mining). I've said it before and will do so again. PoS is a fundamentally different paradigm to PoW. It is currently en vogue among the get rich quick kids, but ´that's just the current trend, like country coins before it. PoS is less of a currency, but more of a collectible. Less real people, more speculators. Not very Karma IMO. But I get the feeling we'll either switch to PoS or stay as we are.

OT: Alphi, as you have argued several times against any sort of price manipulation, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on Nautiluscoin. Seems a big part of their plan is a fund to stabilize the market value and the coin is founded by a financial expert with lots of experience in the field. Do you also think their plan is illegal?


That is EXACTLY how PANDA came about haha Sevoque and the others recruited Wolong to market manipulate the coin to keep it goijng up, they gave him 15% of all the coins that would ever exist premined and let him have at it - Before you know he dumps the premine to 1 Satoshi and scams us all. Stay well away from anything even remotely similar. Its one thing to publically try and pump up a coin, its another to do it all behind closed doors under the guise of being a 'financial expert' as would be the case with Nautiluscoin.

hero member
Activity: 1022
Merit: 501
Creator of the ICO
May 13, 2014, 05:01:11 AM
Is anyone here able and willing to, to create a mining pool where the % fees go directly to Karmashares?

You can do that with my pool.
pool.terahashers.com


Please give a more detailed suggestion of how would you like the Karmashares purchases with the fees to be done?

Do not pay too much attention to the design of the pool website.
It's still under heavy construction (started to create the pool/website 3 days ago)... eheh

The idea would be to buy Karmashares for the 1.75 multiple on a regular basis with a wallet owned by the pool. The additional profit from Karmashares on a three month basis would AGAIN be invested to buy more shares. This would provide Karmashares more liquidity and would reduce available Karma at the same time. This would involve some trust in the poolowner though.... but could be supported by blockchain  data. I think  that most Karma followers would switch to that pool..... and would even pay a higher fee....

I think I can do that.

What do you think is an acceptable fee?
What percentage of the Karmashares bought with the fee could the pool owner keep to himself?

Fees can be higher if this a non-profit thing for the owner. If the owner keeps a % for himself, he must be transparant with this. However, I am sure that generosity will result in good Karma rewards Wink

To clarify this to make sure I understand correctly, what you're asking is to change from:

(Now): fees are in Karmacoin and can be sold for BTC

to

(New): fees are converted to Karmashares, which then give dividends to the pool owner

Right? Such that the owner still gets BTC, just as part of the Karmashare dividends instead of having to liquidate the Karmacoins.

just leaving this here.. a project that shares ownership with another entity would not be a Karmashares project.

Karmashares would own each project 100%

Profits would go to Karmashares to be distributed to owners (members) of the LLC

(Projects themselves would not distribute profits.)
hero member
Activity: 559
Merit: 500
May 13, 2014, 04:28:55 AM
I just don't like it being based on the value of the coin (the decision I mean).
that is the ONLY reason PoS is being pushed at all,  because greedy impatient people don't want to wait for real growth.

they just want the price to go back up so they can dump their coins and not feel so bad about their failed investment decisions.

the price has stabilized.. messing with the coins core code now would only be asking for more problems and volatility.

It's not the only reason, but certainly the most popular one. The IMO most important and legitimate reason (network security) could also be achieved in different ways (algo-switch, merged-mining). I've said it before and will do so again. PoS is a fundamentally different paradigm to PoW. It is currently en vogue among the get rich quick kids, but ´that's just the current trend, like country coins before it. PoS is less of a currency, but more of a collectible. Less real people, more speculators. Not very Karma IMO. But I get the feeling we'll either switch to PoS or stay as we are.

OT: Alphi, as you have argued several times against any sort of price manipulation, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on Nautiluscoin. Seems a big part of their plan is a fund to stabilize the market value and the coin is founded by a financial expert with lots of experience in the field. Do you also think their plan is illegal?
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
May 13, 2014, 04:18:49 AM
Is anyone here able and willing to, to create a mining pool where the % fees go directly to Karmashares?

You can do that with my pool.
pool.terahashers.com


Please give a more detailed suggestion of how would you like the Karmashares purchases with the fees to be done?

Do not pay too much attention to the design of the pool website.
It's still under heavy construction (started to create the pool/website 3 days ago)... eheh

The idea would be to buy Karmashares for the 1.75 multiple on a regular basis with a wallet owned by the pool. The additional profit from Karmashares on a three month basis would AGAIN be invested to buy more shares. This would provide Karmashares more liquidity and would reduce available Karma at the same time. This would involve some trust in the poolowner though.... but could be supported by blockchain  data. I think  that most Karma followers would switch to that pool..... and would even pay a higher fee....

I think I can do that.

What do you think is an acceptable fee?
What percentage of the Karmashares bought with the fee could the pool owner keep to himself?

Fees can be higher if this a non-profit thing for the owner. If the owner keeps a % for himself, he must be transparant with this. However, I am sure that generosity will result in good Karma rewards Wink

To clarify this to make sure I understand correctly, what you're asking is to change from:

(Now): fees are in Karmacoin and can be sold for BTC

to

(New): fees are converted to Karmashares, which then give dividends to the pool owner

Right? Such that the owner still gets BTC, just as part of the Karmashare dividends instead of having to liquidate the Karmacoins.


I mean you could think of different degrees of benefits for the Karma comunity. E.g. Kosmost is giving everything. The first three projects will not even be paid by Karmashares but out of his own pocket. Not everybody has to do this though. You could do essentially two things:

1. allways buy Karmashares also with the btc payouts from quarterly profits. Just like a public thing. Nobody would "own" those shares....

2. buy Karmashares with the fees and keep the btc payouts from quarterly profits yourself. Also good, better than selling them on the exchange...
legendary
Activity: 1988
Merit: 1007
May 13, 2014, 03:58:50 AM
Is anyone here able and willing to, to create a mining pool where the % fees go directly to Karmashares?

You can do that with my pool.
pool.terahashers.com


Please give a more detailed suggestion of how would you like the Karmashares purchases with the fees to be done?

Do not pay too much attention to the design of the pool website.
It's still under heavy construction (started to create the pool/website 3 days ago)... eheh

The idea would be to buy Karmashares for the 1.75 multiple on a regular basis with a wallet owned by the pool. The additional profit from Karmashares on a three month basis would AGAIN be invested to buy more shares. This would provide Karmashares more liquidity and would reduce available Karma at the same time. This would involve some trust in the poolowner though.... but could be supported by blockchain  data. I think  that most Karma followers would switch to that pool..... and would even pay a higher fee....

I think I can do that.

What do you think is an acceptable fee?
What percentage of the Karmashares bought with the fee could the pool owner keep to himself?

Fees can be higher if this a non-profit thing for the owner. If the owner keeps a % for himself, he must be transparant with this. However, I am sure that generosity will result in good Karma rewards Wink

To clarify this to make sure I understand correctly, what you're asking is to change from:

(Now): fees are in Karmacoin and can be sold for BTC

to

(New): fees are converted to Karmashares, which then give dividends to the pool owner

Right? Such that the owner still gets BTC, just as part of the Karmashare dividends instead of having to liquidate the Karmacoins.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
May 13, 2014, 03:47:49 AM
Is anyone here able and willing to, to create a mining pool where the % fees go directly to Karmashares?

You can do that with my pool.
pool.terahashers.com


Please give a more detailed suggestion of how would you like the Karmashares purchases with the fees to be done?

Do not pay too much attention to the design of the pool website.
It's still under heavy construction (started to create the pool/website 3 days ago)... eheh

The idea would be to buy Karmashares for the 1.75 multiple on a regular basis with a wallet owned by the pool. The additional profit from Karmashares on a three month basis would AGAIN be invested to buy more shares. This would provide Karmashares more liquidity and would reduce available Karma at the same time. This would involve some trust in the poolowner though.... but could be supported by blockchain  data. I think  that most Karma followers would switch to that pool..... and would even pay a higher fee....

I think I can do that.

What do you think is an acceptable fee?
What percentage of the Karmashares bought with the fee could the pool owner keep to himself?

Fees can be higher if this a non-profit thing for the owner. If the owner keeps a % for himself, he must be transparant with this. However, I am sure that generosity will result in good Karma rewards Wink
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
May 13, 2014, 03:41:50 AM
I just don't like it being based on the value of the coin (the decision I mean).

that is the ONLY reason PoS is being pushed at all,  because greedy impatient people don't want to wait for real growth.

they just want the price to go back up so they can dump their coins and not feel so bad about their failed investment decisions.

the price has stabilized.. messing with the coins core code now would only be asking for more problems and volatility.
legendary
Activity: 1988
Merit: 1007
May 13, 2014, 02:39:22 AM
Update on POS transition? What's happening?

It's being voted on right now and wouldn't happen for a while anyways. I do hope it ends up going through though. I just don't like it being based on the value of the coin (the decision I mean).
sr. member
Activity: 889
Merit: 253
May 13, 2014, 02:00:53 AM
Status: 8 confirmations, broadcast through 6 node(s)
Date: 2014/5/12 星期一 22:46
To: KARM : KBC5TRvFLZTAX2a9x64vBqM5EbgHJszZih K8CT2MVF8DLTb9Gh1Rnm9xVrLPEf6XUFiP
Debit: -10000000.00 KARM
Net amount: -10000000.00 KARM
Transaction ID: c1096218d650be01f90a08cc6ce883a11724feee87dacee1829a1d5814bef63e




Haha. . World Cup exciting.David Luis . Grin

Wow! What team???
Selecao: Brazil. The passion summer Smiley
hero member
Activity: 1022
Merit: 501
Creator of the ICO
May 13, 2014, 01:46:14 AM
Pump and dump groups* continuing to notice Karma:

May 9
https://twitter.com/VTCWhale/status/464786787375013888

May 9
https://twitter.com/VTCWhale/status/464786991901847552

May 9
https://twitter.com/VTCWhale/status/464787216397762561

May 9
https://twitter.com/VTCWhale/status/464787402880720896
"Eventually you will all realize that #karmashares is a big deal. Or maybe you wont, at least not until its too late."

May 9
https://twitter.com/VTCWhale/status/464798247681536000
"#karmacoin #is #flying #under #everyones #radars"

May 11
https://twitter.com/VTCWhale/status/465191953747812352
"Quantum periods for #karmacoin and #karmashares end very soon and when they are done they are gone for ever."


*sorry if this is you and that's not the correct term. "Tuppercoin Clubs"? "Altswing"? "Bada Bing Bada Boom Rooms"?
hero member
Activity: 1022
Merit: 501
Creator of the ICO
May 13, 2014, 01:18:49 AM
Update on POS transition? What's happening?

When we have updates we will inform the community.

hero member
Activity: 1022
Merit: 501
Creator of the ICO
May 13, 2014, 01:17:15 AM
Someone is seriously trying to scare the market and pick up some cheap coins today. A little amusing.
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
May 12, 2014, 09:17:50 PM
Update on POS transition? What's happening?
sr. member
Activity: 532
Merit: 250
May 12, 2014, 08:26:53 PM
Is anyone here able and willing to, to create a mining pool where the % fees go directly to Karmashares?

You can do that with my pool.
pool.terahashers.com


Please give a more detailed suggestion of how would you like the Karmashares purchases with the fees to be done?

Do not pay too much attention to the design of the pool website.
It's still under heavy construction (started to create the pool/website 3 days ago)... eheh

The idea would be to buy Karmashares for the 1.75 multiple on a regular basis with a wallet owned by the pool. The additional profit from Karmashares on a three month basis would AGAIN be invested to buy more shares. This would provide Karmashares more liquidity and would reduce available Karma at the same time. This would involve some trust in the poolowner though.... but could be supported by blockchain  data. I think  that most Karma followers would switch to that pool..... and would even pay a higher fee....

I think I can do that.

What do you think is an acceptable fee?
What percentage of the Karmashares bought with the fee could the pool owner keep to himself?
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 504
May 12, 2014, 07:29:31 PM
Over 20M KARMs in the WorldCup Pool!!!!  Oh yea!!  I've got this thing figured out, 100k min bet on top 10 ranked teams after the big three, and then I win ALL OF THE KARMS myself Wink Wink

Thanks everyone who has already wagered, let's build this baby up as a showpiece of what this community is made of.  20% is going to a great cause and the rest to some lucky b$%*&#$ that picks the right country!

sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
May 12, 2014, 07:04:13 PM
Is anyone here able and willing to, to create a mining pool where the % fees go directly to Karmashares?

You can do that with my pool.
pool.terahashers.com


Please give a more detailed suggestion of how would you like the Karmashares purchases with the fees to be done?

Do not pay too much attention to the design of the pool website.
It's still under heavy construction (started to create the pool/website 3 days ago)... eheh

The idea would be to buy Karmashares for the 1.75 multiple on a regular basis with a wallet owned by the pool. The additional profit from Karmashares on a three month basis would AGAIN be invested to buy more shares. This would provide Karmashares more liquidity and would reduce available Karma at the same time. This would involve some trust in the poolowner though.... but could be supported by blockchain  data. I think  that most Karma followers would switch to that pool..... and would even pay a higher fee....
sr. member
Activity: 532
Merit: 250
May 12, 2014, 06:39:14 PM
Is anyone here able and willing to, to create a mining pool where the % fees go directly to Karmashares?

You can do that with my pool.
pool.terahashers.com


Please give a more detailed suggestion of how would you like the Karmashares purchases with the fees to be done?

Do not pay too much attention to the design of the pool website.
It's still under heavy construction (started to create the pool/website 3 days ago)... eheh
full member
Activity: 183
Merit: 100
May 12, 2014, 06:31:03 PM
I am testing live LILL.COM beta, and I can say it is bright ! Cool features inside...

IT WILL BE BIG !

SUPER BIG, I WILL BUY KARMAS NOW...
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
May 12, 2014, 06:05:17 PM
Is anyone here able and willing to, to create a mining pool where the % fees go directly to Karmashares?

i proposed the same thing before but if you crunch the numbers the fee collected are tiny. very tiny.


yeah it was your idea. I thought it was good and wanted to recruit some devs for that. But what if price will increase?

KarmaKaguy here
Jump to: