MPW = ?
Multi project wafer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-project_wafer_service
Topic: [Announcement] Avalon ASIC Development Status [Batch #1] - page 24. (Read 155335 times)
MPW = ?
Link: https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/519-10-dec-2012-bfl-asic-update-18.html#post8108
The BFL rep says you guys will have "clock buffer" issues. Any truth to that?
The BFL rep says you guys will have "clock buffer" issues. Any truth to that?
lol, of course they're going to say that.
Avalon has the odds in their favor when it comes to "clock buffer issues" vs BFL because of a couple of factors. Mainly, the standard-cell based design vs going full custom, and also the choice of 110nm technology instead of 65nm. Both of these things serve to reduce the difficulty of producing a working chip, vs choosing as BFL has to "shoot the moon".
With that said, I understand that producing any ASIC is still a very hard thing to do. I thought that even the seasoned pros always first produced designs on MPW, and that the chances of an ASIC design working right the first time it's brought forth into silicon are near zero.
I question the wisdom of going directly to full wafer production. BFL did and it cost them. Why was the plan changed from what was laid out when the Avalon project was announced? (MPW first, then full wafers.)
So, for future batches are you guys going to have to wait for the foundry to slot you in again?
Cool photo btw
Cool photo btw
So I take that picture of the chip layout, print it out on my inkjet printer, glue it to a heatsink, then plug it in to the wall, right? Then I've got gigahashes?
Don't forget to overclock. So I take that picture of the chip layout, print it out on my inkjet printer, glue it to a heatsink, then plug it in to the wall, right? Then I've got gigahashes?
That's essentially how chips are made. Not precisely but they are basically printed on glass and the printing places the circuits and layers are added incrementally.
BFL says someone else will have delays? Seems spurious...
Well Avalon just announced a "potential" delay. Doesn't seem like BFL was too far off.
It just seems like BFL has a backpedal mode that always looks the same - "The other guys have delays too... or might have delays... why are you all up in our face about ours?"
I just don't think that BFL has any room to speak of any delays from the other companies. BFL is reigns supreme as the ASIC delay champion. I hope that title does not continue, but it looks as though it will for the foreseeable future.
well - one would assume if they didn't go into "defensive/look at them delaying too" mode that the refund door may receive more traffic..
BFL says someone else will have delays? Seems spurious...
Well Avalon just announced a "potential" delay. Doesn't seem like BFL was too far off.
It just seems like BFL has a backpedal mode that always looks the same - "The other guys have delays too... or might have delays... why are you all up in our face about ours?"
I just don't think that BFL has any room to speak of any delays from the other companies. BFL is reigns supreme as the ASIC delay champion. I hope that title does not continue, but it looks as though it will for the foreseeable future.
BFL says someone else will have delays? Seems spurious...
Well Avalon just announced a "potential" delay. Doesn't seem like BFL was too far off.
BFL says someone else will have delays? Seems spurious...
And...any change in the power/hash numbers?
Quote from: BFL_Josh;8108
Looks like the Avalon delays are just getting started. (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1397668) ... I'm not surprised of course. I think we're going to see a lot more delays once they actually get the chips and realize the magnitude of their error(s). Maybe they can find away around it, but I'm having trouble envisioning how they can easily and quickly fix the problem they are going to be facing, which forced us to delay as well.
Regardless, to answer some questions:
For the chip delivery, but I will be walking the chips through the rest of the process, so ~1 week for that.
Yes, I am meeting with the assembly house guy today as a matter of fact (headed to the airport in about 30 minutes).
What software are you referring to? Mining software? BFGminer and (likely) CGMiner will be ready. EasyMiner is mining, but still has some bugs that are being worked on daily... once I show you the new EasyMiner, you'll understand why it's taken so long.
For the pogopin assembly, it goes along with EasyMiner... it has nothing to do with the boards in a Minirig. [/COLOR]
Regardless, to answer some questions:
For the chip delivery, but I will be walking the chips through the rest of the process, so ~1 week for that.
Yes, I am meeting with the assembly house guy today as a matter of fact (headed to the airport in about 30 minutes).
What software are you referring to? Mining software? BFGminer and (likely) CGMiner will be ready. EasyMiner is mining, but still has some bugs that are being worked on daily... once I show you the new EasyMiner, you'll understand why it's taken so long.
For the pogopin assembly, it goes along with EasyMiner... it has nothing to do with the boards in a Minirig. [/COLOR]
Link: https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/519-10-dec-2012-bfl-asic-update-18.html#post8108
The BFL rep says you guys will have "clock buffer" issues. Any truth to that?
You mean...300 hundred lucky individuals will mine like crazy while the other thousands are stuck waiting in line? Say it ain't so!
They had 300 units for pre-order, and I doubt they only sold 1 per person. I'm guessing it'll prolly be all 20TH/s divided up between 100-150 people. He's basically saying they understand the nature of trying to enforce Intellectual Property in this world. It's impossible. So because of that, they are just going to focus on making the best product they can, and get it out to as many people as they can so that once it is reverse-engineered, their customers will already be so far ahead of the game it won't really benefit anyone to try to duplicate their product, because they'll have raised enough money to work on a redesign for a "Generation 2" product.
If the other ASIC devs were smart, they'd be buying orders of Avalons once we know they are legit, IMHO, specifically for the reverse-engineering opportunities. What's probably the saddest about the situation is that it looks like Avalon isn't only going to be the best designed, but it also looks like it might end up being the first to hit the network, too. So that means everyone else is going to be playing catch-up.
I was hoping for the sake of the Bitcoin network that there would be at least two competitors, one with a better product and one with more timely delivery. Not sure how this is all going to play out in the end.
You mean...300 hundred lucky individuals will mine like crazy while the other thousands are stuck waiting in line? Say it ain't so! If the other ASIC devs were smart, they'd be buying orders of Avalons once we know they are legit, IMHO, specifically for the reverse-engineering opportunities. What's probably the saddest about the situation is that it looks like Avalon isn't only going to be the best designed, but it also looks like it might end up being the first to hit the network, too. So that means everyone else is going to be playing catch-up.
I was hoping for the sake of the Bitcoin network that there would be at least two competitors, one with a better product and one with more timely delivery. Not sure how this is all going to play out in the end.
We don't plan to release this information, any information regarding our unit's internal you will have to find from pictures our customers who feels like uploading. This is our trade secret as we feel we designed a truly unique and innovative unit.
Wait, it's your trade secret, but it's okay for customers to divulge?
How would they even begin to prevent customers from exploring the workings of their own hardware? A "warranty void if removed" sticker isn't all that menacing to many.
It is like creativex said, I'm just delaying the inevitable, there is absolutely zero benefits for us to release this information, we will happily provide any information after release though, when it is no longer relevant to our competitors.
I think, reserve some surprises are important too.
He's basically saying they understand the nature of trying to enforce Intellectual Property in this world. It's impossible. So because of that, they are just going to focus on making the best product they can, and get it out to as many people as they can so that once it is reverse-engineered, their customers will already be so far ahead of the game it won't really benefit anyone to try to duplicate their product, because they'll have raised enough money to work on a redesign for a "Generation 2" product.
If the other ASIC devs were smart, they'd be buying orders of Avalons once we know they are legit, IMHO, specifically for the reverse-engineering opportunities. What's probably the saddest about the situation is that it looks like Avalon isn't only going to be the best designed, but it also looks like it might end up being the first to hit the network, too. So that means everyone else is going to be playing catch-up.
I was hoping for the sake of the Bitcoin network that there would be at least two competitors, one with a better product and one with more timely delivery. Not sure how this is all going to play out in the end.
If the other ASIC devs were smart, they'd be buying orders of Avalons once we know they are legit, IMHO, specifically for the reverse-engineering opportunities. What's probably the saddest about the situation is that it looks like Avalon isn't only going to be the best designed, but it also looks like it might end up being the first to hit the network, too. So that means everyone else is going to be playing catch-up.
I was hoping for the sake of the Bitcoin network that there would be at least two competitors, one with a better product and one with more timely delivery. Not sure how this is all going to play out in the end.
We don't plan to release this information, any information regarding our unit's internal you will have to find from pictures our customers who feels like uploading. This is our trade secret as we feel we designed a truly unique and innovative unit.
Wait, it's your trade secret, but it's okay for customers to divulge?
How would they even begin to prevent customers from exploring the workings of their own hardware? A "warranty void if removed" sticker isn't all that menacing to many.
It is like creativex said, I'm just delaying the inevitable, there is absolutely zero benefits for us to release this information, we will happily provide any information after release though, when it is no longer relevant to our competitors.
I think, reserve some surprises are important too.
We don't plan to release this information, any information regarding our unit's internal you will have to find from pictures our customers who feels like uploading. This is our trade secret as we feel we designed a truly unique and innovative unit.
Wait, it's your trade secret, but it's okay for customers to divulge?
How would they even begin to prevent customers from exploring the workings of their own hardware? A "warranty void if removed" sticker isn't all that menacing to many.
It is like creativex said, I'm just delaying the inevitable, there is absolutely zero benefits for us to release this information, we will happily provide any information after release though, when it is no longer relevant to our competitors.
How would they even begin to prevent customers from exploring the workings of their own hardware? A "warranty void if removed" sticker isn't all that menacing to many.
We don't plan to release this information, any information regarding our unit's internal you will have to find from pictures our customers who feels like uploading. This is our trade secret as we feel we designed a truly unique and innovative unit.
Wait, it's your trade secret, but it's okay for customers to divulge?
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