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Topic: [ANN][Pool][Profit-Switch][Optional Auto-Exchange per Coin][Vardiff] ~ Hashcows - page 140. (Read 347340 times)

member
Activity: 61
Merit: 10
I don't think that fruitless rounds are a significant problem at the moment but I think you raise an interesting general suggestion that is worth considering.

Make the check for profitability, and change if appropriate, upon the discovery of a block or after a longer period of time.

I believe this pool has a great framework with unlocked potential profit that can hopefully be found by tinkering with the rules and carrying out some structured testing.

Keep up the good work Smiley

There are a ton of round that say 0 blocks found right now, according to the tracker.

The dev response sounds like this happens fairly often. It should almost never happen.

Just providing the math as to why its almost always pointless to change mid-block.
hero member
Activity: 980
Merit: 500
FREE $50 BONUS - STAKE - [click signature]
How fast are cah out requests processed? I've been waiting on mine for some time now. Sad
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
Okay so I did some calculations based on just the past 30 rounds for today. We all know the estimations are hosed but I wasn't aware how much they were hosed. My estimated BTC earnings for today is currently sitting at 0.01455106. I have mined 0.144726 in the past 30 rounds which includes the past 14:35:31. I'm estimating a payout around 0.23803709 BTC. Now this is of course taking into the fact that we have been having some VERY good rounds but, my calculations have averaged what I make per second and then I just extrapolate. This estimation will get more accurate when we get closer to the 24 hr mark but for now, is still wildly inaccurate (as is to be expected, statistically speaking).

To help everyone understand what kind of payout we can expect, I'm currently running 5 cards for a total of 3.1 MH/s which means I expect 0.076786158 BTC per MH/s. Very good day indeed! I hope this helps everyone with estimated payout questions for today.

Hash cows to the moon!

EDIT: Since doing the calculations and rechecking my estimated earnings on the statistics page, my payout has been reduced dramatically even though the round was paid in full before and after my calculations. Is there something amiss in the table as well?

Changed for me also, even though the round had been paid in full. It told me for one round .316601 BTC now for that same round it's telling me .003268

 Of course the numbers change. First it is estimating based on what the scripts HOPE to sell the coins you just mined for. The revised numbers probably reflect what they ACTUALLY were able to sell for.  Watch out later today when all the WDC estimates drop 20% to reflect wdc only sells for .0008 not .001 like cryptsy has been claiming all day.
 No script can KNOW how much you are going to get, until the coins are sold, thats why estimates are estimates

The explanation makes sense but what doesn't make sense is how the rounds are labeled. The label is "Rounds Paid in Full" not "What We Hope the Round Will Pay." The label is misleading to say the least. Paid in full sounds like it's been taken to the market, sold and paid out to us. I suggest wording that more closely resembles what is actually happening..."Rounds to Be Sold" and "Rounds Sold and Distributed." This will make it much clearer what is happening.
newbie
Activity: 58
Merit: 0
Is the algorithm set up to not switch until a block has been mined? Until it reaches a certain % over the usual? How does it work?

I noticed a lot of rounds that found 0 blocks, if its switching before a block is finished often, that's just wasted hash rate.

My assumption is that this was just some hiccups, but can you verify?

Can I get a response to these questions?

I see an awful lot of rounds that are highlighted in green and/or have no payout listed. That combined with a very low payout so far have me second guessing.

We check all coins profitability every few minutes, we have a base minimum time per round that we hit no matter what (because there is a small cost of lost mining time every switch), after that minimum time there are various rules to determine whether we should switch. Generally speaking, one coin has to be a decent amount more profitable than the current, to switch within X amount of time.

From time to time, we get unlucky and get no blocks but that's just the card we were dealt, so to speak Sad

We can always increase the "base minimum time per round" so if that's something that will increase payouts we can do it.

At the absolute minimum you should never stop mining until you hit a block (exceptions at the end).

Think of it this way: Coin A takes an average of 10 minutes per block and at current trading rates is 200% more profitable than some set coin, such as litecoin.

Coin B takes an average of 20 minutes per block and is currently trading at rates of 150% that same set coin.

So you start mining A. 5 minutes in, coin B becomes more profitable.

I propose to continue mining until you get a block of coin A. If the average is 10 minutes and the minimum is 0 minutes, just about 100% of the blocks will fall between 10 and 20 minutes (yes I know the math is more complicated than that). 99.7% of the data will fall within 3 standard deviations above/below the average, so we can infer the standard deviation is at most 3.33 minutes. This also means that 95% of the blocks mined will fall between 3.33 and 16.66 minutes. Realistically, the normal distribution will be much closer to the average.

Worse case scenario, is that it takes 20 minutes to mine a block. If it takes 20 minutes, we spend 15 minutes mining a 'less profitable' coin. How profitable does the new 'more profitable' coin have to be to outweigh this difference? Well, assuming that we will mine a block of the more profitable coin at the average amount of time (20 minutes), we have the following equation:

200% * (15 minutes / 15 minutes for a block) =  B% * (15 minutes / 20 minutes for a block)

B% = 266.667%. B must be 266.667% more profitable than our coin setpoint.

However, 95% of the time, this block will mine in 16.66 minutes or less. The equation then works out to be B% = 344.82%. In this case, B needs to be almost twice as profitable as A to expect rewards from switching.

This is assuming a huge amount of variation in block size, which is unlikely. For blocks that take an average of 10 minutes, my guess is that something like 95% will fall between 6 and 14 minutes.

If you set something like litecoin or bitcoin as a setpoint, your profitability calculations to determine when to switch and when to stay should be as follows:

(current time spent mining A + average time for block of B / average time required for block A) * profitability vs. setpoint > average time for block B * profitability vs. setpoint.

The moment that > becomes < is when you should switch, even if time has been spent on coin A.

This is because on average, we should be looking at expected blocks of A vs. profitability of A as compared to B, given a switch, assuming average expected blocks of B. In fact, when we do this, we find the profitability requirements to switch are much, much higher.

Of course, once a block is mined, it would be time to switch to another coin.

I don't think that fruitless rounds are a significant problem at the moment but I think you raise an interesting general suggestion that is worth considering.

Make the check for profitability, and change if appropriate, upon the discovery of a block or after a longer period of time.

I believe this pool has a great framework with unlocked potential profit that can hopefully be found by tinkering with the rules and carrying out some structured testing.

Keep up the good work Smiley
member
Activity: 61
Merit: 10
Is the algorithm set up to not switch until a block has been mined? Until it reaches a certain % over the usual? How does it work?

I noticed a lot of rounds that found 0 blocks, if its switching before a block is finished often, that's just wasted hash rate.

My assumption is that this was just some hiccups, but can you verify?

Can I get a response to these questions?

I see an awful lot of rounds that are highlighted in green and/or have no payout listed. That combined with a very low payout so far have me second guessing.

We check all coins profitability every few minutes, we have a base minimum time per round that we hit no matter what (because there is a small cost of lost mining time every switch), after that minimum time there are various rules to determine whether we should switch. Generally speaking, one coin has to be a decent amount more profitable than the current, to switch within X amount of time.

From time to time, we get unlucky and get no blocks but that's just the card we were dealt, so to speak Sad

We can always increase the "base minimum time per round" so if that's something that will increase payouts we can do it.

At the absolute minimum you should never stop mining until you hit a block (exceptions at the end).

Think of it this way: Coin A takes an average of 10 minutes per block and at current trading rates is 200% more profitable than some set coin, such as litecoin.

Coin B takes an average of 20 minutes per block and is currently trading at rates of 150% that same set coin.

So you start mining A. 5 minutes in, coin B becomes more profitable.

I propose to continue mining until you get a block of coin A. If the average is 10 minutes and the minimum is 0 minutes, just about 100% of the blocks will fall between 10 and 20 minutes (yes I know the math is more complicated than that). 99.7% of the data will fall within 3 standard deviations above/below the average, so we can infer the standard deviation is at most 3.33 minutes. This also means that 95% of the blocks mined will fall between 3.33 and 16.66 minutes. Realistically, the normal distribution will be much closer to the average.

Worse case scenario, is that it takes 20 minutes to mine a block. If it takes 20 minutes, we spend 15 minutes mining a 'less profitable' coin. How profitable does the new 'more profitable' coin have to be to outweigh this difference? Well, assuming that we will mine a block of the more profitable coin at the average amount of time (20 minutes), we have the following equation:

200% * (15 minutes / 15 minutes for a block) =  B% * (15 minutes / 20 minutes for a block)

B% = 266.667%. B must be 266.667% more profitable than our coin setpoint.

However, 95% of the time, this block will mine in 16.66 minutes or less. The equation then works out to be B% = 344.82%. In this case, B needs to be almost twice as profitable as A to expect rewards from switching.

This is assuming a huge amount of variation in block size, which is unlikely. For blocks that take an average of 10 minutes, my guess is that something like 95% will fall between 6 and 14 minutes.

If you set something like litecoin or bitcoin as a setpoint, your profitability calculations to determine when to switch and when to stay should be as follows:

(current time spent mining A + average time for block of B / average time required for block A) * profitability vs. setpoint > block B profitability vs. setpoint.

The moment that > becomes < is when you should switch, even if time has been spent on coin A.

This is because on average, we should be looking at expected blocks of A vs. profitability of A as compared to B, given a switch, assuming average expected blocks of B. In fact, when we do this, we find the profitability requirements to switch are much, much higher. In fact, if you do the math of expected block time, coin B has to be 2.5 times more profitable than A to justify a switch after 5 minutes of coin A.

Of course, once a block is mined, it would be time to switch to the most profitable coin.
hero member
Activity: 1232
Merit: 683
Tontogether | Save Smart & Win Big
Is the algorithm set up to not switch until a block has been mined? Until it reaches a certain % over the usual? How does it work?

I noticed a lot of rounds that found 0 blocks, if its switching before a block is finished often, that's just wasted hash rate.

My assumption is that this was just some hiccups, but can you verify?

Can I get a response to these questions?

I see an awful lot of rounds that are highlighted in green and/or have no payout listed. That combined with a very low payout so far have me second guessing.

We check all coins profitability every few minutes, we have a base minimum time per round that we hit no matter what (because there is a small cost of lost mining time every switch), after that minimum time there are various rules to determine whether we should switch. Generally speaking, one coin has to be a decent amount more profitable than the current, to switch within X amount of time.

From time to time, we get unlucky and get no blocks but that's just the card we were dealt, so to speak Sad

We can always increase the "base minimum time per round" so if that's something that will increase payouts we can do it.
member
Activity: 61
Merit: 10
Is the algorithm set up to not switch until a block has been mined? Until it reaches a certain % over the usual? How does it work?

I noticed a lot of rounds that found 0 blocks, if its switching before a block is finished often, that's just wasted hash rate.

My assumption is that this was just some hiccups, but can you verify?

Can I get a response to these questions?

I see an awful lot of rounds that are highlighted in green and/or have no payout listed. That combined with a very low payout so far have me second guessing.
hero member
Activity: 1232
Merit: 683
Tontogether | Save Smart & Win Big
Okay so I did some calculations based on just the past 30 rounds for today. We all know the estimations are hosed but I wasn't aware how much they were hosed. My estimated BTC earnings for today is currently sitting at 0.01455106. I have mined 0.144726 in the past 30 rounds which includes the past 14:35:31. I'm estimating a payout around 0.23803709 BTC. Now this is of course taking into the fact that we have been having some VERY good rounds but, my calculations have averaged what I make per second and then I just extrapolate. This estimation will get more accurate when we get closer to the 24 hr mark but for now, is still wildly inaccurate (as is to be expected, statistically speaking).

To help everyone understand what kind of payout we can expect, I'm currently running 5 cards for a total of 3.1 MH/s which means I expect 0.076786158 BTC per MH/s. Very good day indeed! I hope this helps everyone with estimated payout questions for today.

Hash cows to the moon!

EDIT: Since doing the calculations and rechecking my estimated earnings on the statistics page, my payout has been reduced dramatically even though the round was paid in full before and after my calculations. Is there something amiss in the table as well?

Changed for me also, even though the round had been paid in full. It told me for one round .316601 BTC now for that same round it's telling me .003268

 Of course the numbers change. First it is estimating based on what the scripts HOPE to sell the coins you just mined for. The revised numbers probably reflect what they ACTUALLY were able to sell for.  Watch out later today when all the WDC estimates drop 20% to reflect wdc only sells for .0008 not .001 like cryptsy has been claiming all day.
 No script can KNOW how much you are going to get, until the coins are sold, thats why estimates are estimates

Exactly, pretty much what happened.
full member
Activity: 141
Merit: 100
ZOHEM | DECENTRALISED USER BEHAVIOUR DATA PROTOCOL
Okay so I did some calculations based on just the past 30 rounds for today. We all know the estimations are hosed but I wasn't aware how much they were hosed. My estimated BTC earnings for today is currently sitting at 0.01455106. I have mined 0.144726 in the past 30 rounds which includes the past 14:35:31. I'm estimating a payout around 0.23803709 BTC. Now this is of course taking into the fact that we have been having some VERY good rounds but, my calculations have averaged what I make per second and then I just extrapolate. This estimation will get more accurate when we get closer to the 24 hr mark but for now, is still wildly inaccurate (as is to be expected, statistically speaking).

To help everyone understand what kind of payout we can expect, I'm currently running 5 cards for a total of 3.1 MH/s which means I expect 0.076786158 BTC per MH/s. Very good day indeed! I hope this helps everyone with estimated payout questions for today.

Hash cows to the moon!

EDIT: Since doing the calculations and rechecking my estimated earnings on the statistics page, my payout has been reduced dramatically even though the round was paid in full before and after my calculations. Is there something amiss in the table as well?

Changed for me also, even though the round had been paid in full. It told me for one round .316601 BTC now for that same round it's telling me .003268

 Of course the numbers change. First it is estimating based on what the scripts HOPE to sell the coins you just mined for. The revised numbers probably reflect what they ACTUALLY were able to sell for.  Watch out later today when all the WDC estimates drop 20% to reflect wdc only sells for .0008 not .001 like cryptsy has been claiming all day.
 No script can KNOW how much you are going to get, until the coins are sold, thats why estimates are estimates
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
That's quite worrying (in particular because I just started on this pool!)...any explanation from dev?
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
Okay so I did some calculations based on just the past 30 rounds for today. We all know the estimations are hosed but I wasn't aware how much they were hosed. My estimated BTC earnings for today is currently sitting at 0.01455106. I have mined 0.144726 in the past 30 rounds which includes the past 14:35:31. I'm estimating a payout around 0.23803709 BTC. Now this is of course taking into the fact that we have been having some VERY good rounds but, my calculations have averaged what I make per second and then I just extrapolate. This estimation will get more accurate when we get closer to the 24 hr mark but for now, is still wildly inaccurate (as is to be expected, statistically speaking).

To help everyone understand what kind of payout we can expect, I'm currently running 5 cards for a total of 3.1 MH/s which means I expect 0.076786158 BTC per MH/s. Very good day indeed! I hope this helps everyone with estimated payout questions for today.

Hash cows to the moon!

EDIT: Since doing the calculations and rechecking my estimated earnings on the statistics page, my payout has been reduced dramatically even though the round was paid in full before and after my calculations. Is there something amiss in the table as well?

Changed for me also, even though the round had been paid in full. It told me for one round .316601 BTC now for that same round it's telling me .003268
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
Okay so I did some calculations based on just the past 30 rounds for today. We all know the estimations are hosed but I wasn't aware how much they were hosed. My estimated BTC earnings for today is currently sitting at 0.01455106. I have mined 0.144726 in the past 30 rounds which includes the past 14:35:31. I'm estimating a payout around 0.23803709 BTC. Now this is of course taking into the fact that we have been having some VERY good rounds but, my calculations have averaged what I make per second and then I just extrapolate. This estimation will get more accurate when we get closer to the 24 hr mark but for now, is still wildly inaccurate (as is to be expected, statistically speaking).

To help everyone understand what kind of payout we can expect, I'm currently running 5 cards for a total of 3.1 MH/s which means I expect 0.076786158 BTC per MH/s. Very good day indeed! I hope this helps everyone with estimated payout questions for today.

Hash cows to the moon!

EDIT: Since doing the calculations and rechecking my estimated earnings on the statistics page, my payout has been reduced dramatically even though the round was paid in full before and after my calculations. Is there something amiss in the table as well?
newbie
Activity: 57
Merit: 0
I cant SingUp, always get "Password must be between 6 - 20 characters."
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
Really, that long?
It worries me that I may not be getting credit, since the stats aren't showing.
I'm guessing I won't see a payout until I mine at least 0.01BTC, right?

That's what I was saying. I'd love to see a counter to see that my rigs are actually doing work rather than just an estimate that I can't confirm myself until it's cashed out.

Earlier I had an estimate after a round of .3BTC 2 hours later it says .01... pretty confusing
full member
Activity: 155
Merit: 100
Really, that long?
It worries me that I may not be getting credit, since the stats aren't showing.
I'm guessing I won't see a payout until I mine at least 0.01BTC, right?
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
Ok, been scanning this thread a bit, and I think I'm getting somewhat of a handle on how things work, however...

I've been mining with my 7970 at a fairly stable 550 Kh/s for the past 18-20 hrs.
So far, I'm seeing no usable numbers in the est. payout.
It says something like "Est. Daily BTC Earnings   2.134E-5"
Based on the profit chart page, I should be expecting something in the 0.01BTC/day range, right?
Do I just need to wait longer, or is something amiss that I'm not seeing?
Thanks in advance for any clarification, and thanks a TON to nearmiss for the excellent idea, site, and service! Smiley

-E


just let it run a few days
full member
Activity: 155
Merit: 100
Ok, been scanning this thread a bit, and I think I'm getting somewhat of a handle on how things work, however...

I've been mining with my 7970 at a fairly stable 550 Kh/s for the past 18-20 hrs.
So far, I'm seeing no usable numbers in the est. payout.
It says something like "Est. Daily BTC Earnings   2.134E-5"
Based on the profit chart page, I should be expecting something in the 0.01BTC/day range, right?
Do I just need to wait longer, or is something amiss that I'm not seeing?
Thanks in advance for any clarification, and thanks a TON to nearmiss for the excellent idea, site, and service! Smiley

-E
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
Hi all,

just decided to switch to this auto switching pool considering I'll have 900kh/s for a couple of weeks and I want to maximise this in BTC but I have no time to manually switch every time to the best coin.

One small suggestion: ajax update (every 30 seconds so it's not too heavy on system) on the stats page? Looking forward to have some stats in the next hours...or days?  Huh
newbie
Activity: 20
Merit: 0
So a few things.

-I really like the idea of hashcows and it seems super convinient, but I'm having trouble understanding the estimated daily payouts. Is this number the estimated ammount of BTC that I can EARN if I keep mining at a static rate with a static price? Or is the number if coins that I have ALREADY earned and its just displaying the estimated 'if we sold all you've earned so far now and you stopped mining then this is your total payout'?

-I noticed that after running for about 24 hours with variable 3.50-5.0MH/s (two of our cards are in personal gaming rigs :p) I only netted a bit over 0.05 BTC. Now I'm not sure if this is because of maybe backlogged coins that you haven't sold or what...but I shouldn't I in theory be earning twice if not three times that number?

-Create more of a community, like a local forum where hashcows users can talk and share stuff. Or even just a chatbox on the mainpage itself. Can go a long way to building your pool if done well.
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
I dont think they can do that ShaBan, because they dont know how much it will be since the coins are constantly going up and down and arent sold instantly. Sometimes we will lose a bit, sometimes gain.

Their website says that the coins are traded for bitcoins throughout the day. So when they get sold they should be able to give us an exact number for how much we are receiving. So they could add a counter for the ones that have already been traded.

Also, on the stats page, can you make it so that it shows all the rounds since the last time we cashed out? Rather than just one page of the most recent rounds?
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