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Topic: [ANN][SIM] Simcoin - A Simple Coin - page 53. (Read 157765 times)

sr. member
Activity: 478
Merit: 250
May 09, 2014, 11:20:44 AM
You could just say that all stage 1 investors will get 20% more SIM per BTC invested than stage 2 and do the math later.

Do the math how? Who is "stage 1 investor" and who is "stage 2"?

Stage 1 is now, until you release alpha. Stage 2 is after alpha until whenever you decide.
hero member
Activity: 840
Merit: 500
Risk taker & Black Swan farmer.
May 09, 2014, 11:19:13 AM
I'm not trying to take anyone's money, but rather to help the community of which I am part to set some rules with incentives for the right things.

Right. So with this new rule, if somebody invested after you, his share becomes smaller, while yours bigger, correct? How is it not taking his money?

I don't care one way or the other, it's just more work for me, but I could factor in the account's age (how to measure it, by the way? by registration? first deposit?).

I just don't think it's fair and that it creates unnecessary mess, but if the majority of investors think it's the way to go - I can do it.

I understand your point but your examples are very funny. By the same rule you mention I am taking money already from people who will use or buy the coin later, just because "I happened to find this thread, took the risk and invested some of my money and time to help develop the project and community", right? By the same rule I could complain that you are already taking money from all of us, when in fact you are the one who puts in the hard work to make things happen.

Irrespective of whether I am taking money or not, I think we should do it the right way and set incentives for what matters. With the right incentives in place you create a natural-selection mechanism which filters investors from speculators.

Risk and reward are inextricably bound, that is how reality works. If you have a problem with that, try to change it and see what happens.

By the way, here is a very good essay on the matter: http://paulgraham.com/inequality.html

Since we are trying to build a long term project of superior simplicity and quality you can take the time and read it, I think it will be worth it.

P.S. Lets not haste to make a quick decision but a smart one.
hero member
Activity: 840
Merit: 1002
Simcoin Developer
May 09, 2014, 11:17:30 AM
You could just say that all stage 1 investors will get 20% more SIM per BTC invested than stage 2 and do the math later.

Do the math how? Who is "stage 1 investor" and who is "stage 2"?
sr. member
Activity: 478
Merit: 250
May 09, 2014, 11:16:32 AM
You could just say that all stage 1 investors will get 20% more SIM per BTC invested than stage 2 and do the math later.
hero member
Activity: 840
Merit: 1002
Simcoin Developer
May 09, 2014, 11:13:15 AM
I invested in stage 2 of eXocoin and we all understood that stage 1 investors took a bigger risk. There were no problems at all.

Ok, let's see if anybody is against it. Hard to imagine people happily giving up part of their stake, but what do I know Smiley

Also, how do you propose to do it? Calculate for each deposit? That's too convoluted.

The easiest would be to add a multiplier column into DB which depends on either account registration date or first deposit date.
sr. member
Activity: 478
Merit: 250
May 09, 2014, 11:07:04 AM
I invested in stage 2 of eXocoin and we all understood that stage 1 investors took a bigger risk. There were no problems at all.
hero member
Activity: 840
Merit: 1002
Simcoin Developer
May 09, 2014, 11:01:25 AM
You could make it something simple like before the alpha is stage 1 and after is stage 2.

Well, people before alpha will be for it and people after - against.

I guess the very first thing to do is to implement a voting system, with votes proportional to stake Smiley

But I'd hate to waste my time on this. It means delaying the release even further...
sr. member
Activity: 478
Merit: 250
May 09, 2014, 10:40:08 AM
You could make it something simple like before the alpha is stage 1 and after is stage 2.
hero member
Activity: 840
Merit: 1002
Simcoin Developer
May 09, 2014, 10:33:25 AM
I'm not trying to take anyone's money, but rather to help the community of which I am part to set some rules with incentives for the right things.

Right. So with this new rule, if somebody invested after you, his share becomes smaller, while yours bigger, correct? How is it not taking his money?

I don't care one way or the other, it's just more work for me, but I could factor in the account's age (how to measure it, by the way? by registration? first deposit?).

I just don't think it's fair and that it creates unnecessary mess, but if the majority of investors think it's the way to go - I can do it.
hero member
Activity: 840
Merit: 500
Risk taker & Black Swan farmer.
May 09, 2014, 10:25:35 AM
An example would be to set lets say 3 stages for the IPO. Early stage -  the riskiest part, 2nd stage - moderate risk, some developments are visible and 3rd stage - less risky, project seems very promising and a lot of investors, dev team and community are contributing a lot to the project.

Ask other investors, if they are Ok with you taking part of their money just because you've noticed this topic just a week earlier Smiley

Seems hardly fair to me. Plus, late investors gained some certainty, but also lost some, because the probability of sudden IPO closure is now much higher.



I'm not trying to take anyone's money, but rather to help the community of which I am part to set some rules with incentives for the right things.

Fairness becomes meaningless when used in such random situations. My point is that in practice the sudden IPO closure probability plays no role for the real investor(not to be confused with speculator). What you want to know and evaluate is risk/reward probability, that is how you make right decisions for the long term, the rest is noise.
hero member
Activity: 840
Merit: 1002
Simcoin Developer
May 09, 2014, 09:49:02 AM
An example would be to set lets say 3 stages for the IPO. Early stage -  the riskiest part, 2nd stage - moderate risk, some developments are visible and 3rd stage - less risky, project seems very promising and a lot of investors, dev team and community are contributing a lot to the project.

Ask other investors, if they are Ok with you taking part of their money just because you've noticed this topic just a week earlier Smiley

Seems hardly fair to me. Plus, late investors gained some certainty, but also lost some, because the probability of sudden IPO closure is now much higher.

hero member
Activity: 840
Merit: 500
Risk taker & Black Swan farmer.
May 09, 2014, 09:44:13 AM
What are your thoughts on the matter?

My goal is a long-term success of this project. I would very much like it if Simcoin reached dollar parity one day and would be used by at least 100,000 people.

When you keep this goal in mind, the current state of the IPO (one month and 166 investors) doesn't look particularly significant.

Yes, it can be upsetting to watch your share decrease. My advice - don't. Current number is pretty much meaningless until the IPO is closed.

I doubt it will stay open for 6 months, so no reason to panic yet Smiley



Glad to see you have a long term vision on the matter, it's something rare these days. Signals seem to indicate I'm in the right place.

As you can see, this is not a matter of panic at all. Rather, as I don't think you just make arbitrary choices, my question/suggestion is: wouldn't it be better if we could find a way to hold the goal you mentioned in mind and in addition to that also find a better way to deal with IPO investors?

An example would be to set lets say 3 stages for the IPO. Early stage -  the riskiest part, some interesting ideas and a basic plan, 2nd stage - moderate risk, some developments are visible and 3rd stage - less risky, project seems very promising and a lot of investors, dev team and community are contributing a lot to the project.

Thoughts?



hero member
Activity: 840
Merit: 1002
Simcoin Developer
May 09, 2014, 08:06:06 AM
What are your thoughts on the matter?

My goal is a long-term success of this project. I would very much like it if Simcoin reached dollar parity one day and would be used by at least 100,000 people.

When you keep this goal in mind, the current state of the IPO (one month and 166 investors) doesn't look particularly significant.

Yes, it can be upsetting to watch your share decrease. My advice - don't. Current number is pretty much meaningless until the IPO is closed.

I doubt it will stay open for 6 months, so no reason to panic yet Smiley

hero member
Activity: 840
Merit: 500
Risk taker & Black Swan farmer.
May 09, 2014, 07:34:26 AM
Didn't show it to make you quit. Smiley

Just thought it might be interesting.

No, it is, thanks for the link.

Their heart is in the right place Smiley

Regarding the IPO I was thinking it is a good thing that as many investors participate as possible in order to spread the distribution. However, my question is wouldn't it be good to also create an incentive for early investors to keep investing and reward them proportional to their risk?

The thing is that if you leave the IPO open for lets say 3 - 6 months and gather an important amount of btc, on the one hand it is a very good thing, a lot of people can participate and will do so as they see the project developing and serious work being done. On the other hand I think it may be in the best interest of the community also make a bit of a distinction between the stages of investment and differentiate the rewards proportionately.

In any case, an intelligent discussion on the matter should always be welcomed, right?

What are your thoughts on the matter?
hero member
Activity: 840
Merit: 1002
Simcoin Developer
May 09, 2014, 04:13:32 AM
Didn't show it to make you quit. Smiley

Just thought it might be interesting.

No, it is, thanks for the link.

Their heart is in the right place Smiley
hero member
Activity: 840
Merit: 500
Risk taker & Black Swan farmer.
May 09, 2014, 04:08:35 AM
Seems someone is developing something similar.

https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/basiccoin

What do you think of the project? Is there anything useful we can take away?

It's nice to see that developers start to appreciate this approach.

Of course, you cannot program anything remotely meaningful in 500 line of code no matter how advanced your programming language is, and Python is certainly not a silver bullet.

They also use blockchain and PoW, which means they are essentially copying Bitcoin in a much slower language. (I wonder, why would people make PoW coins at this point? Huh)

So, don't worry, no reason for me to quit yet Wink

Didn't show it to make you quit. Smiley

Just thought it might be interesting.
legendary
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
May 09, 2014, 03:33:03 AM
"The easier to use, the harder to program."

Oh, that's a sad truth I live by every day Sad

It's been a sad truth ever since experts systems were first put together in the 1960s. If you're ever feeling down, go ask some AI guys about how hard it's been to computer-simulate something as intuitive as sight! That'll give you some perspective. Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1000
Reality is stranger than fiction
May 09, 2014, 03:19:37 AM
"The easier to use, the harder to program."

Oh, that's a sad truth I live by every day Sad

I'm sure you'll make it. It's worth trying to make it user-friendly.
hero member
Activity: 840
Merit: 1002
Simcoin Developer
May 09, 2014, 03:10:52 AM
"The easier to use, the harder to program."

Oh, that's a sad truth I live by every day Sad
hero member
Activity: 840
Merit: 1002
Simcoin Developer
May 09, 2014, 03:07:26 AM
Seems someone is developing something similar.

https://github.com/zack-bitcoin/basiccoin

What do you think of the project? Is there anything useful we can take away?

It's nice to see that developers start to appreciate this approach.

Of course, you cannot program anything remotely meaningful in 500 line of code no matter how advanced your programming language is, and Python is certainly not a silver bullet.

They also use blockchain and PoW, which means they are essentially copying Bitcoin in a much slower language. (I wonder, why would people make PoW coins at this point? Huh)

So, don't worry, no reason for me to quit yet Wink
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