I really love all the discussion going on as it is fascinating!
As for my 2cents on the wallet rewards, I'm okay with allowing everyone to run the wallet (forever) while using rewards as a "stepping stone" in the short term.. however eventually I think that we should lower or remove the reward for just running the wallet since it would be paradoxical (not to mention hypocritical) to allow people to earn SLR in any fashion other than the stated 1MWH=1SLR. It would also technically devalue the coin too since it goes against what the core mission is after.
We will likely have lots of claimants at the point we consider ditching POST rewards so I really doubt the network needs POST support forever as the claimants themselves will find incentives to run the wallet in the first place.
(We can either do this, or regulate that all users are PV based... but that will shut out a lot of people and require more rules as you have correctly stated)
===
Personally, I believe that computing based on solar power will inevitably overtake other forms a computing both within SLR, and globally, especially as solar materials get more productive at gathering sunlight, and we get more creative with storing it... This will inevitably lead to a stronger network (especially in places with loads of sun) as people will be able to afford running a wallet and fortifying the system without any electrical cost to them.
I know I cant wait to built my first true solar powered Mac/PC/ASIC and I am not alone, so we will see where this goes... Probably to the Sun!!
Topic: [ANN][SLR] SolarCoin | PoW to PoS v. 2.0 | Solar Proof of Generation (§1 = 1MWh) - page 227. (Read 466822 times)
August 05, 2015, 03:19:59 PM
August 05, 2015, 12:53:37 PM
We should really speed up the switch to POST we want to have it running in time for the climate summit.
August 05, 2015, 05:40:55 AM
August 05, 2015, 01:57:08 AM
Hi CryptoNick,
Regarding your great question about the SCF not knowing if the hardware is truthful or not on a solar-node.
>>Couldn't anyone hookup one of these devices to their normal power meter and make it seem that they are generating solar power? When in actuality they are using the power? It would give them a way to become a node without buying Solar and they use the power anyways so why not hook it up? I don't think the Device can discern between real output of a solar panel. If the device were only on each solar panel then yes it could since it would be rated output and possibly note daylight cycles.
I think it becomes quite evident when you can see the DC signal of kWh at any given location on the Earth's surface if the DC kWh is connected to day/night and cloud cycles of solar irradiance because the output is pretty much directly proportional to input solar irradiance (sun strength). Any location can be quickly and accurately simulated as well. Or if that person want's to get super tricky and make a quasi-DC side generator signal that cheaply mimmics at solar panel they could, but they would have a hard time exactly replicating the weather condition cycles because of year-to-year variation of solar irradiance and on a lower time resolution, the cloud spikes.
On the AC side of a solar system that is connected to the grid (post inverter that converts DC solar electricity to AC), the energy still follows the typical output of a solar array across the day (low in the morning, ramping up in the middle of the day to max, and then gradually dropping off in the evening on sunny day). This footprint is pretty tell all when you compare it to simulations.
A super dooper tricky simulator can't do all the random cloud spikes that occur naturally, these would be spotted by a person when overlaying the model vs. actual, or even AI.
Plus the cost of the quasi-DC generator is more than a solar panel on a unit per unit cost. If they are trying to make a big claim, then the SCF could easily follow up with people (volunteers) to investigate their submitted API (in real time) and patterns.
Cheers,
lfloorwalker
Maybe that isn't such a bad idea to ditch the reward for those who haven't implemented a Solar Powered wallet. Then they can only claim a one time claim. This might cause a sell off and the Claimer leaves the economy though. They may stake their claim but will it really be worth the time and effort? A small PoST wallet would not generate much stake and again would not be worth it. I have been told claimers don't want to buy coin so we are at an impasse either way.
The Nodes who implement a Solar Powered Wallet would have to pay to buy this technology. Either from an authority or from a Solar Panel Manufacturer who adopted the technology. This would cause a whole new investment though. This might make it so the device or OEM integration would only be considered on new installations. To be legitimate the technology must be embedded so again this may only be possible for new installations.
Couldn't anyone hookup one of these devices to their normal power meter and make it seem that they are generating solar power? When in actuality they are using the power? It would give them a way to become a node without buying Solar and they use the power anyways so why not hook it up? I don't think the Device can discern between real output of a solar panel. If the device were only on each solar panel then yes it could since it would be rated output and possibly note daylight cycles.
This is why I am advocating the output for a claim in the wallet using POST. Then SLR development makes that wallet require buying/holding of coin along with some other special security features that I can't divulge.
Maybe the main nodes use the Device and they are fully qualified and inspected? Sounds good no matter what though, but claimers are cheap and won't spend the money for the device, from what I hear.
Regarding your great question about the SCF not knowing if the hardware is truthful or not on a solar-node.
>>Couldn't anyone hookup one of these devices to their normal power meter and make it seem that they are generating solar power? When in actuality they are using the power? It would give them a way to become a node without buying Solar and they use the power anyways so why not hook it up? I don't think the Device can discern between real output of a solar panel. If the device were only on each solar panel then yes it could since it would be rated output and possibly note daylight cycles.
I think it becomes quite evident when you can see the DC signal of kWh at any given location on the Earth's surface if the DC kWh is connected to day/night and cloud cycles of solar irradiance because the output is pretty much directly proportional to input solar irradiance (sun strength). Any location can be quickly and accurately simulated as well. Or if that person want's to get super tricky and make a quasi-DC side generator signal that cheaply mimmics at solar panel they could, but they would have a hard time exactly replicating the weather condition cycles because of year-to-year variation of solar irradiance and on a lower time resolution, the cloud spikes.
On the AC side of a solar system that is connected to the grid (post inverter that converts DC solar electricity to AC), the energy still follows the typical output of a solar array across the day (low in the morning, ramping up in the middle of the day to max, and then gradually dropping off in the evening on sunny day). This footprint is pretty tell all when you compare it to simulations.
A super dooper tricky simulator can't do all the random cloud spikes that occur naturally, these would be spotted by a person when overlaying the model vs. actual, or even AI.
Plus the cost of the quasi-DC generator is more than a solar panel on a unit per unit cost. If they are trying to make a big claim, then the SCF could easily follow up with people (volunteers) to investigate their submitted API (in real time) and patterns.
Cheers,
lfloorwalker
lfloorwalker, how do we come to a consensus on when we should force all nodes running the SLR wallet to be solar-powered only?
Should we even force that, or is it perhaps an economic certainty?
Should we allow all to use the wallet and eventually ditch the reward if you are non solar-powered instead?
Did you address this in your research? (Just curious).
Should we even force that, or is it perhaps an economic certainty?
Should we allow all to use the wallet and eventually ditch the reward if you are non solar-powered instead?
Did you address this in your research? (Just curious).
Maybe that isn't such a bad idea to ditch the reward for those who haven't implemented a Solar Powered wallet. Then they can only claim a one time claim. This might cause a sell off and the Claimer leaves the economy though. They may stake their claim but will it really be worth the time and effort? A small PoST wallet would not generate much stake and again would not be worth it. I have been told claimers don't want to buy coin so we are at an impasse either way.
The Nodes who implement a Solar Powered Wallet would have to pay to buy this technology. Either from an authority or from a Solar Panel Manufacturer who adopted the technology. This would cause a whole new investment though. This might make it so the device or OEM integration would only be considered on new installations. To be legitimate the technology must be embedded so again this may only be possible for new installations.
Couldn't anyone hookup one of these devices to their normal power meter and make it seem that they are generating solar power? When in actuality they are using the power? It would give them a way to become a node without buying Solar and they use the power anyways so why not hook it up? I don't think the Device can discern between real output of a solar panel. If the device were only on each solar panel then yes it could since it would be rated output and possibly note daylight cycles.
This is why I am advocating the output for a claim in the wallet using POST. Then SLR development makes that wallet require buying/holding of coin along with some other special security features that I can't divulge.
Maybe the main nodes use the Device and they are fully qualified and inspected? Sounds good no matter what though, but claimers are cheap and won't spend the money for the device, from what I hear.
August 05, 2015, 01:50:14 AM
Hi mattwj44,
Actually, a really good question and I haven't considered that. I was just doing research with our team to figure out the hardware process that was necessary to make a minimum cost solar node that fits on our balcony here and then generates power for our smartphone charging. As an added bonus it can possibly connect to the solarcoin blockchain and be useful for the blockchain as a solar-node. In the future it would be nice if there were more solar-nodes, but, I don't think they should be treated differently from any node. It is good to encourage more people to use solar energy. So if the price of the solarcoin is higher, the solar-node actually becomes some kind of income generation and offset for the investment cost into the node plus its already cool useful charging of your smartphone.
In general, I don't think we should be exclusive on this system, we need to grow the network and make it easier for claimers.
What I am trying to work towards is a simple way for someone to install some cheap hardware/software bundle on their existing or new solar system and it automatically connects to the affiliate sites sidechain. That affiliate then tells the main blockchain when the SCF successfully processes the affiliates claim on behalf of the claimer. Trying to figure this part out and any advice on that would be recommended either multisig or lightning network (BitCoin proposed lightning network style).
Maybe the SCF has a list of hardware that they "certify".
Or software API providers that they "certify".
Cheers,
lfloorwalker
Actually, a really good question and I haven't considered that. I was just doing research with our team to figure out the hardware process that was necessary to make a minimum cost solar node that fits on our balcony here and then generates power for our smartphone charging. As an added bonus it can possibly connect to the solarcoin blockchain and be useful for the blockchain as a solar-node. In the future it would be nice if there were more solar-nodes, but, I don't think they should be treated differently from any node. It is good to encourage more people to use solar energy. So if the price of the solarcoin is higher, the solar-node actually becomes some kind of income generation and offset for the investment cost into the node plus its already cool useful charging of your smartphone.
In general, I don't think we should be exclusive on this system, we need to grow the network and make it easier for claimers.
What I am trying to work towards is a simple way for someone to install some cheap hardware/software bundle on their existing or new solar system and it automatically connects to the affiliate sites sidechain. That affiliate then tells the main blockchain when the SCF successfully processes the affiliates claim on behalf of the claimer. Trying to figure this part out and any advice on that would be recommended either multisig or lightning network (BitCoin proposed lightning network style).
Maybe the SCF has a list of hardware that they "certify".
Or software API providers that they "certify".
Cheers,
lfloorwalker
lfloorwalker, how do we come to a consensus on when we should force all nodes running the SLR wallet to be solar-powered only?
Should we even force that, or is it perhaps an economic certainty?
Should we allow all to use the wallet and eventually ditch the reward if you are non solar-powered instead?
Did you address this in your research? (Just curious).
Should we even force that, or is it perhaps an economic certainty?
Should we allow all to use the wallet and eventually ditch the reward if you are non solar-powered instead?
Did you address this in your research? (Just curious).
August 04, 2015, 07:02:54 PM
lfloorwalker, how do we come to a consensus on when we should force all nodes running the SLR wallet to be solar-powered only?
Should we even force that, or is it perhaps an economic certainty?
Should we allow all to use the wallet and eventually ditch the reward if you are non solar-powered instead?
Did you address this in your research? (Just curious).
Should we even force that, or is it perhaps an economic certainty?
Should we allow all to use the wallet and eventually ditch the reward if you are non solar-powered instead?
Did you address this in your research? (Just curious).
Maybe that isn't such a bad idea to ditch the reward for those who haven't implemented a Solar Powered wallet. Then they can only claim a one time claim. This might cause a sell off and the Claimer leaves the economy though. They may stake their claim but will it really be worth the time and effort? A small PoST wallet would not generate much stake and again would not be worth it. I have been told claimers don't want to buy coin so we are at an impasse either way.
The Nodes who implement a Solar Powered Wallet would have to pay to buy this technology. Either from an authority or from a Solar Panel Manufacturer who adopted the technology. This would cause a whole new investment though. This might make it so the device or OEM integration would only be considered on new installations. To be legitimate the technology must be embedded so again this may only be possible for new installations.
Couldn't anyone hookup one of these devices to their normal power meter and make it seem that they are generating solar power? When in actuality they are using the power? It would give them a way to become a node without buying Solar and they use the power anyways so why not hook it up? I don't think the Device can discern between real output of a solar panel. If the device were only on each solar panel then yes it could since it would be rated output and possibly note daylight cycles.
This is why I am advocating the output for a claim in the wallet using POST. Then SLR development makes that wallet require buying/holding of coin along with some other special security features that I can't divulge.
Maybe the main nodes use the Device and they are fully qualified and inspected? Sounds good no matter what though, but claimers are cheap and won't spend the money for the device, from what I hear.
August 04, 2015, 09:33:05 AM
lfloorwalker, how do we come to a consensus on when we should force all nodes running the SLR wallet to be solar-powered only?
Should we even force that, or is it perhaps an economic certainty?
Should we allow all to use the wallet and eventually ditch the reward if you are non solar-powered instead?
Did you address this in your research? (Just curious).
Should we even force that, or is it perhaps an economic certainty?
Should we allow all to use the wallet and eventually ditch the reward if you are non solar-powered instead?
Did you address this in your research? (Just curious).
August 04, 2015, 07:16:00 AM
For those who want to watch POST dev ongoing or contribute code, suggestions or translations etc... https://github.com/onsightit/solarcoin
Here are the screens and graphics that can be edited. https://github.com/onsightit/solarcoin/tree/master/src/qt/res/images
Just an FYI currently the foundation is targetting shift to POST at block 800,000. As of this writing we are currently at 761,000. So https://chainz.cryptoid.info/slr/# looking at 27 days away or August 31, 2015 for rollover over to POST. This assumes we can get things to good state for public release, get exchanges and miners on board 2 weeks in advance etc. More info coming as things get more locked down in the next few days.
Nick
Here are the screens and graphics that can be edited. https://github.com/onsightit/solarcoin/tree/master/src/qt/res/images
Just an FYI currently the foundation is targetting shift to POST at block 800,000. As of this writing we are currently at 761,000. So https://chainz.cryptoid.info/slr/# looking at 27 days away or August 31, 2015 for rollover over to POST. This assumes we can get things to good state for public release, get exchanges and miners on board 2 weeks in advance etc. More info coming as things get more locked down in the next few days.
Nick
August 04, 2015, 06:59:25 AM
Hi all,
after 11 months research at our labs. We have nearly completed the research paper.
We are going to release information as open source so that the network can benefit.
Details will be published at the best timing possible for solarcoin.
Best,
lfloorwalker
Abstract:
The purpose of this work is to show how Solarcoin can operate, its added value and further to show how a solar powered node on the solarcoin blockchain can potentially operate. The aim of this document is to disseminate valuable information that crosses over between solar engineering, network engineering and finally blockchain development. The work starts by introducing how to get Solarcoin- either generating it from solar energy, or by trading it. Then the work goes on to explain a general overview regarding how blockchains operate for people who are new to the blockchain technology. And finally the document details plans for a solar powered Solarcoin node that generates Solarcoin and simultaneously protects the transparent consensus ledger. A solar powered Solarcoin node was constructed and tested for an 11-month period and still ongoing at our research labs in Tokyo. The details of the construction and operation of this setup were documented. This document was written in the intent of freely distributing information so that further innovation can occur in the future. In the future, it is hoped that the process of creating an open source solarcoin blockchain node will be streamlined and simpler, so that solarcoin nodes can proliferate. This will enable more people to benefit from the added value that solarcoin has for planet Earth, and, its people.
after 11 months research at our labs. We have nearly completed the research paper.
We are going to release information as open source so that the network can benefit.
Details will be published at the best timing possible for solarcoin.
Best,
lfloorwalker
Abstract:
The purpose of this work is to show how Solarcoin can operate, its added value and further to show how a solar powered node on the solarcoin blockchain can potentially operate. The aim of this document is to disseminate valuable information that crosses over between solar engineering, network engineering and finally blockchain development. The work starts by introducing how to get Solarcoin- either generating it from solar energy, or by trading it. Then the work goes on to explain a general overview regarding how blockchains operate for people who are new to the blockchain technology. And finally the document details plans for a solar powered Solarcoin node that generates Solarcoin and simultaneously protects the transparent consensus ledger. A solar powered Solarcoin node was constructed and tested for an 11-month period and still ongoing at our research labs in Tokyo. The details of the construction and operation of this setup were documented. This document was written in the intent of freely distributing information so that further innovation can occur in the future. In the future, it is hoped that the process of creating an open source solarcoin blockchain node will be streamlined and simpler, so that solarcoin nodes can proliferate. This will enable more people to benefit from the added value that solarcoin has for planet Earth, and, its people.
Now that's pretty exciting.
August 04, 2015, 12:07:30 AM
Hi all,
after 11 months research at our labs. We have nearly completed the research paper.
We are going to release information as open source so that the network can benefit.
Details will be published at the best timing possible for solarcoin.
Best,
lfloorwalker
Abstract:
The purpose of this work is to show how Solarcoin can operate, its added value and further to show how a solar powered node on the solarcoin blockchain can potentially operate. The aim of this document is to disseminate valuable information that crosses over between solar engineering, network engineering and finally blockchain development. The work starts by introducing how to get Solarcoin- either generating it from solar energy, or by trading it. Then the work goes on to explain a general overview regarding how blockchains operate for people who are new to the blockchain technology. And finally the document details plans for a solar powered Solarcoin node that generates Solarcoin and simultaneously protects the transparent consensus ledger. A solar powered Solarcoin node was constructed and tested for an 11-month period and still ongoing at our research labs in Tokyo. The details of the construction and operation of this setup were documented. This document was written in the intent of freely distributing information so that further innovation can occur in the future. In the future, it is hoped that the process of creating an open source solarcoin blockchain node will be streamlined and simpler, so that solarcoin nodes can proliferate. This will enable more people to benefit from the added value that solarcoin has for planet Earth, and, its people.
after 11 months research at our labs. We have nearly completed the research paper.
We are going to release information as open source so that the network can benefit.
Details will be published at the best timing possible for solarcoin.
Best,
lfloorwalker
Abstract:
The purpose of this work is to show how Solarcoin can operate, its added value and further to show how a solar powered node on the solarcoin blockchain can potentially operate. The aim of this document is to disseminate valuable information that crosses over between solar engineering, network engineering and finally blockchain development. The work starts by introducing how to get Solarcoin- either generating it from solar energy, or by trading it. Then the work goes on to explain a general overview regarding how blockchains operate for people who are new to the blockchain technology. And finally the document details plans for a solar powered Solarcoin node that generates Solarcoin and simultaneously protects the transparent consensus ledger. A solar powered Solarcoin node was constructed and tested for an 11-month period and still ongoing at our research labs in Tokyo. The details of the construction and operation of this setup were documented. This document was written in the intent of freely distributing information so that further innovation can occur in the future. In the future, it is hoped that the process of creating an open source solarcoin blockchain node will be streamlined and simpler, so that solarcoin nodes can proliferate. This will enable more people to benefit from the added value that solarcoin has for planet Earth, and, its people.
August 01, 2015, 10:21:36 PM
August 01, 2015, 01:12:36 PM
Matt i think that's a great idea maybe even hand out paper wallets to the people.
It may be an idea at this point or in the near future to open a prypto campaign for Solarcoin. Have a card design contest, and maybe find out if the prypto cards address can be printed as a QR code on the card, on the back or something.
I don't know how secure those cards are. I know they give you the unique key for each address on a scratch off portion of the card, but there's no way to add a password on those as far as I know.
Yes I LOVE this idea... we need these ASAP especially since it looks like a much more professional way to distribute coins instead of some piece of paper...Does it cost a lot to setup?
It costs some money. I don't know how much though. And yeah, it would be pro. A nice shiny "debit" type card to hold, use with merchants, and the best part is, it'll receive funds as your solar panels do what they do. It may not be time yet for this idea, I think SLR is going to have to become more embedded in the economy for it to be worthwhile, but I can see it's usefulness.
August 01, 2015, 12:40:14 PM
Matt i think that's a great idea maybe even hand out paper wallets to the people.
It may be an idea at this point or in the near future to open a prypto campaign for Solarcoin. Have a card design contest, and maybe find out if the prypto cards address can be printed as a QR code on the card, on the back or something.
I don't know how secure those cards are. I know they give you the unique key for each address on a scratch off portion of the card, but there's no way to add a password on those as far as I know.
Yes I LOVE this idea... we need these ASAP especially since it looks like a much more professional way to distribute coins instead of some piece of paper...Does it cost a lot to setup?
August 01, 2015, 01:44:36 AM
Matt i think that's a great idea maybe even hand out paper wallets to the people.
It may be an idea at this point or in the near future to open a prypto campaign for Solarcoin. Have a card design contest, and maybe find out if the prypto cards address can be printed as a QR code on the card, on the back or something.
I don't know how secure those cards are. I know they give you the unique key for each address on a scratch off portion of the card, but there's no way to add a password on those as far as I know.
July 31, 2015, 10:15:51 PM
Matt i think that's a great idea maybe even hand out paper wallets to the people.
July 31, 2015, 12:12:22 PM
I'm thinking about going door-to-door across the Dallas/Ft Worth, Texas area (we have a LOT of homes with solar already) to spread the word about SLR during my off days.
A few questions for the group:
1. should I wait until POST is released so we have a better wallet to show people?
2. should I offer to stake all coins a household would have claimed since their PV setup was installed?
3. what info, photos, graphs, ect would you print from the SLR page to show someone new?
4. anyone interested in helping me host an SLR meet-up/FAQ in the greater DFW area (or anywhere in TX) so we can generate interest in SLR here?
Any thoughts/critique you have would be much appreciated... thanks!
A few questions for the group:
1. should I wait until POST is released so we have a better wallet to show people?
2. should I offer to stake all coins a household would have claimed since their PV setup was installed?
3. what info, photos, graphs, ect would you print from the SLR page to show someone new?
4. anyone interested in helping me host an SLR meet-up/FAQ in the greater DFW area (or anywhere in TX) so we can generate interest in SLR here?
Any thoughts/critique you have would be much appreciated... thanks!
July 31, 2015, 05:56:45 AM
Have patience & buy those cheap coins while no one knows what SLR is. That will be over soon.
..... the sun is bright
..... the sun is bright
This is true!
http://t.co/yDb3fY8bVN up 500% since July 2014. Need to grow value of network by adding participants, which means focusing on POST and great UX via affiliate sites and mobile.
July 30, 2015, 10:16:05 AM
Have patience & buy those cheap coins while no one knows what SLR is. That will be over soon.
..... the sun is bright
..... the sun is bright
This is true!
July 30, 2015, 09:30:38 AM
Have patience & buy those cheap coins while no one knows what SLR is. That will be over soon.
..... the sun is bright
..... the sun is bright
July 30, 2015, 12:26:26 AM
Any new link to updated wallet? TIA
we are quietly testing on Testnet with POST and staking just 2-4 people. will release new "testing" beta soon. On version 2.00b6
Nick
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