Topic: [ANN][SLR] SolarCoin | PoW to PoS v. 2.0 | Solar Proof of Generation (§1 = 1MWh) - page 242. (Read 466822 times)

You must mean when the price gets to $10 per coin right? The problem is people pay .03 cents for 10 coins so why would a merchant do this? If they want your business they would just give you a 1-5% discount. But, instead of just giving you the percentage, you are saying in a different market when SolarCoin costs $10 per coin to save $200 on a $30,000 install a merchant would require you to buy a coin to get a deal? And your actual install gives you a claim to however many SolarCoin yet you would go buy the coin?

Circular logic always gets us to these types of results for usage of the coin. I noticed the big cost is always in $ signs... always costs money before it costs SolarCoin. This is the problem.

I can see a major solar company offering a discount for new installs if you pay with a percentage of solarcoin this could really help with price. Say 10 solarcoins gets you 1-5% off install. There would be a mad race to sell 10 solarcoins on ebay for example for a high price. Kinda like how people sell 10% off homedepot coupons on ebay for a premium.

Even 1% off install could be worth $300 if install cost $30,000

Anyone would pay $100 for 10 solarcoins to save $200

I am moving on as I simply agree to disagree since your theory and examples are a very narrow range of what could theoretically happen with this coin or and currency for that matter. Currency can be used in any way that user in the system sees fit, looking at one narrow range of value or use is not a good indicator of what an entire economy will look like since neither you nor I nor anyone else have any idea what people actually use this currency for.



Instead I have another question for those in the form, I eventually see the marginal price of SLR rising to the marginal cost of what you would have to pay the power company for 1 MWH  (globally averaged). Do others in this form feel the same way or do you think pricing may fall short/exceed this limit for some reason?

Your opinions are welcome on this pricing theory!

 

For people who actually own this coin  a positive note the ask is starting to dry up on bittrex.

It's much appreciative when can see SLR activities....✌

Yeah well if you don't listen and do something you can move on and not go anywhere. You know the coin faces this economic problem, yet you want to just move on.

I am not buying the coin and it is most likely the same reason why no one else is buying the coin. If you can't figure out what I am talking about all you can do is hope no one else figures it out and wants to buy. They won't figure it out until it goes nowhere and they sell in front of your sells to cheap buyers.

And what is going to make people want to hold their coin and participate in an economy just because they have solar panels. If they do claim they will sell. Or if they hold for extended periods waiting to sell high then they only lose their time it took to claim the coin. But most will just sell at that point cheap and get money for their time. So many more sellers than buyers.

  Didnt we move on already?

No I said BTC has costs to mine it, so it can not be sold for less than those costs, it has demand so it works otherwise it wouldn't. SLR is Claimed there is no cost to mine it. So if all you have to do is Claim it who will buy it? Anyone can create a coin that has a pool they grant claims to. There could be 10 other coins just like SLR that claim the same since anyone could claim from your coin and then go and claim from another coin. Since no Coin has a Monopoly on Claiming Solar that already exists or will exist for that matter. The only group doing this properly is the Power Company since they Pay for the Power based on production. The power company would never participate in your economy and they are the ones who control your coin users payouts in real money. Getting that real money to only equal SLR is your point. Just because it works for BitCoin doesn't mean it works for every coin. This is why you could create worth by burning the BitCoin that comes in. Not only does it now represent a stake in your coin but also raises it respectfully to BitCoin, and if enough people burn BitCoin to get into SLR the amount of BitCoin in existence would be less and create a higher price possibly.

Economic Example:
I claim 10,000 SLR, you want to prove me wrong that SLR has a great economic possibility and decide to sell me something. I say I want something good for my SLR though since SLR is going to be worth so much more later and the item you sell me has to be brand new. So you go buy the item of my desire for $100 and then trade me the SLR I claimed for free with my solar panels for the $100 you just paid in real money. I now have your $100 and you have 10,000 SLR. You look for traders and no one is willing to trade $100 for 10,000 but they will give you $10 for the SLR you just lost $90 if you trade. So you decide to hold. There are millions of holders at this point since they all experienced the $90 loss and no buyers but more claims keep coming in repeating the cycle.

Who will bring the products to give away in exchange for SLR? By trading a coin for a product you own means that you have no real world bills to pay and this could work fine for closed economy's like I stated about McD coin. It is until that coin has to be sold to gain FIAT that you experience a problem and your Merchants would bear the brunt of it. Which is why I asked who is buying out those merchants? You need incentive to buy the coin always. You would have to make things cheaper in SLR than in the real world to make people give up their real money to buy SLR instead. But the fact that they bought in with money means someone valued that money enough to sell out and this money may never come back in. Do you get it?

If all the things you said were true BTC and all other cryptos would have failed by now first of all because they are ALL MADE BY COMPUTERS... Also you keep saying "Who will buy this coin?" Its not just about who will buy it, its about the economy that will be created once there are a bunch of people who CLAIM and TRADE the coins just like with any other currency in existence.

Also as far as the whole power company thing goes, the fact that the power companies are involved means nothing as this coin is representative just like the US dollar use to be with gold. Not everyone sells energy to the power company, some keep it for themselves so that whole argument is one-sided IMO.

I don't think this coin is perfect but as an economist I truly believe it has an amazing set of possibilities that can merge crypto/solar/currency/ect together and we have NEVER seen anything like this before.


One last thing, people wont get solar panels to claim SLR, they will buy solar panels no matter what because it will produce cheap energy for them. SLR is like a small fish swimming next to a big whale, it will benefit from the existence of solar and is not designed to encourage others to buy solar panels but rather support the solar economy once it becomes larger in scale.

Getting interest after I read SLR script as them master plan....

I am just telling you why the masses are not buying SolarCoin. They get the McDonalds metaphor meaning you can be doing what McD Crypto Coin is doing and not be a business since McD is the Business (like the power company is) and SolarCoin is the Receipt for your McD Coin.  If you don't get why or understand economics I can't make you understand. SolarCoin was created by a computer and will always be created by a computer. We could just take the rest of the blocks of BitCoin and Fork it so that massive amounts of energy and time don't have to be spent finding the last blocks, but that is why it is worth so much RARE and hard to find (since everyone wants it=demand). It still takes a computer to send and receive coins, unless you somehow use the Sun to do this now?


You said it not me... "SLR Represents how much they participate." It is like you are holding a mirror up to show the Power Company something but the Power Company already knows that people are using Solar they are the ones paying for the excess energy and other consumers buy it from the Power Company. SLR doesn't entice them buy Solar Panels, and if it did they would sell their claimed coin for money which is allowed in your economy, so who will be buying this coin they claim and sell, what entices people to buy claimed coin? People buy panels to save Money and they pay for their Solar Panels over time (ROI) and then get the power for free later or get paid by the Power Company. When people participate and then Claim, what will they do with the coin? What will the Merchants expect inside SLR when their business life is dependent outside SLR? You are blind from staring into the sun too long daydreaming how perfect SLR is. You can't even answer how this will transpire on a large scale.

+1

I totally agree and I think that a lot of people in this forum would do well to study the core principles of economics so they can understand how more people entering the space will bring value and utility, end of story.... I'm just excited to know that as more claimants enter the space we will see that these coins are no longer created by computers, Rather that they are distributed to those who are investing their livelihoods in solar technology which is good for the planet and good for humanity in general.

We must not lose sight of the fact that this coin encourages a mindset and allows people to track global progress in solar, while also creating a new currency for a solar age that allows a form of representative liquidity in the market. If nothing else, we will know that in the future as we see more SLR claimed humanity is more greatly leaning upon a renewable and sustainable form of energy and this above all else is the most important mission of what this coin seeks to achieve. This isn't McDonalds or any other business/stock/crypto... This is a blockchain built around the SUN and that is an amazing thing if you ask me

Solar power IS the future of humanity and SLR is a way to represent how much humanity stakes and participates in this future, but it is also a crypto currency which makes it vastly more dynamic. As someone who is an avid and college-educated economist I think the whole system is utterly fascinating on many levels and shouldn't be drowned in pessimism.

How does a Claimant Cash in on the $3,900? The claimant gets paid real money for their energy produced and sold back to the Grid or uses it off the Grid but doesn't buy from the Grid saving money. So they have already made that $3,900 in real money, now someone will want to give them more money for the same Utility/Like BitCoin? Only since it costs so much more energy to make BitCoin? We are talking $3,900 BTC equivalent and that is speculative on its own.

BitCoin could just make WindMill Claims available for the rest of the coin if this model works so good. A company finds BitCoin and it costs them X amount of dollars to find it. They will not sell it for less than X amount of dollars or they go broke. It costs them money to find it, if no one buys it from them they go broke or the price goes lower and they can go broke in time.

The only reason BitCoin is worth something is that it is a Race to find a block. SolarCoin's race is for companies who have already been collecting ROI on their panels to find out about SolarCoin, Claim it, and then sell it to BitCoin to prove it is worth something, since it is on top of the money they already were paid by the power company for their Solar Production.

You can say it is worth X=MW but that is after the claimer is already paid by the Power Company. The claimer would have to buy his own claim to make it worth something, but then someone else would need to want to buy it and use it to have Value!

So selling it to BitCoin means there needs to be buyers. Profiteers like to buy low. If your Claimants hold and don't sell then they avert tragedy but they have no where to go with their coin, and even if they do find somewhere to go... will the merchant just hold SolarCoin and not attempt to make his SLR coin holdings for the products he sold worth Money or BitCoin by selling. A SolarCoin doesn't equal anything but what the market derives for it. That means there must be real demand.

What Creates the demand for the coin? I know there is demand for Solar but it has utility. SolarCoin has math to create a coin based on money you were already paid by your panel. So why would someone take the money they were paid by their panel and buy a SolarCoin with it?

Here is the utility SolarCoin is selling... McDonalds has thousands of stores and a billion served. Well people buy McDonalds fast food because it is cheap and fast and easy to find. So lets make a McD Coin and everyone who holds a McDonalds Receipt for a Happy Meal gets to Claim a McD Crypto Coin. This coin could just be traded for the Toys in the happy meals so it won't leave the economy ever but represents each happy meal purchase price. The Toys represent something of worth that Kids (SolarCoin Claimers) have already paid for and profit has been derived from it for McDonalds (Power Company). But your receipt will equal 10 McD Crypto Coins if you claim them. Now the Toys (Toys=Solar Panels) back your Crypto McD since they are intrinsic and had utility (made kids happy and cost a set amount of money).

So at the exchange where I can take my 10 McD Crypto Coins and sell them to buyers suddenly there are more claims every day so more coin but less buyers of that very McD coin, and suddenly everyone starts to claim, over a Billion! So we tell them they can use their coin to buy from a Merchant, to make the coin worth something other than a Toy, everyone rushes over to the Merchant to buy the Merchants products with McD coin. Now the Merchant owns all of this McD coin he gave all of his products in return for it!!! Now he must sell it or buy something with it. OOOH NOOO! How does the Merchant get paid back? No one buys the McD coin they only Claim it but even when their McD coin generates PoS he only holds more coin that no one buys!! The merchant is left holding the happy meal bag on this one!

Whoooly Hamburgerlers the Merchant goes bankrupt since no one is BUYING and only CLAIMING McD coin!

Who Buys the SolarCoin if everyone only has to Claim it or generate it? If these buyers exist, what incentive do they have for Buying the SolarCoin? Please enlighten me.

Sure SolarCoin might be a better way than BitCoin but even if all BitCoin cashes over to SolarCoin it may just be because BitCoin is on its way out too. SolarCoin needs to Replace BitCoin and only allow people to use BitCoin to buy a Claim. Then that BitCoin can never be used. If you put it in a wallet and burn it or destroy the wallet forever as proof then you have a concept of internal worth.

Solar coin's new motto should be Earn with the Sun Magnify your BitCoin by Burning it! Then you have a closed economy and might see success. Selling out to BitCoin is the Flaw. If people want to own the coin and buy in from your Merchants, then they pay the Merchant FIAT and get a claim in SolarCoin as their purchase that spurs the economy. You are putting the Brunt of your financial debacle onto your Merchants!

I always offer ideas for you so now do something better with my ideas for SolarCoin since it will not be viable unless you do.

Matt, thanks for articulating the point.

BTC for example has no "backing" or explicit redemption. People actually use resources to maintain/create it, strangely confusing a sunk marginal cost with future value. BTC's value like all non-redeemable monies is derived from transactional and speculative utilities. both of which are based on belief in expectations of future utility. SLR is the same way however it has one interesting advantage. a Currency network size functions as transactions are pushed or pulled by demand across the network. Fiat is demand driven by taxes causing a lock-in due to network dynamics (buyers and sellers) shift to a single utility preference, like e-bay.  SolarCoin is a supply driven currency earned by solar generators, meaning 20-25 year known rates of generation. So the individual user expected inflation rate is stable and declining. The number of SLR Network claimants is of course to be determined, but if the economic utility per participant approximates BTC, the price etc. could incent participation by generators.

The following is a speculative scenario assuming a "high" price point of $20/SLR. Assuming 50m SLR in circulation This would require approximately $1.0 Billion market cap and 1,000,000 participants. Again a very large number with lots of caveats, but very possible when thinking globally and over 40 years.

 The math becomes compelling on a LOCE levelized cost of energy at $20 per SLR.  Even at such an extreme rate the average first time claimant with 6KW rooftop 3 yrs. old would claim, 6x3x1.3=§23.4x20=$468 claim while potentially creating $1,000 in network economic utility. $468 is a useful amount of money for a $6-9,000 solar project @$1-1.5/w installed which may be marginal. The lifetime energy production of 25 years for such a project would generate 195 MWh=§ 195 SLR=$3,900, a meaningful incentive from a project finance perspective.

You can't simply look at Market cap in a raw sense, you must also see that if more people who claim solar come into the space they will bring all kinds of value and utility to the market... For now what you see is a bunch of coins given mostly to non-PV users which is why the value is so low. When we have, say 1million claimants, they will create their own value and thus the coin will rise in price as a result based on speculation and actual utility.... Although not as much as it would have if there were no coins given to miners or non PV users in the first place **

More coins doesn't always mean a lower price per coin if those coins are introduced with true PV users capturing energy and bringing value to the market.. its pretty simple math actually

I guess I don't understand Market Cap. I thought I did. Explain to me again how more Claims drives the price up? I keep hearing this but I want to be completely sure I am not halucinating.

This makes no sense whatsoever, also I believe you have a very narrow minded view of what type of people will be available to buy the coin... This market will not only consists of people seeking to make a profit, I'm willing to bet there will be many people who use and hold onto SLR just because they believe in the cause in for many other reasons.

To say that people will only use the coin for one type of purpose is very narrow minded especially since we haven't even seen how the coin will react once it's market is primarily made up of claimants..... There will be plenty of buyers in plenty of buy support as soon as we can get people who have PV Systems to start claiming the coin at a larger rate and thus driving up the price as more true solar-backed coin enters the market

I just figured out a better way for liquidity to transpire and also make it so that no one can profit from the coin. Make the price .00000001 for each coin and then have claims available for a Quadrillion Coin. If the price goes up it just means people wanted to use the coin instead of claim it. Then you can only go up from there and everyone who buys in knows they could claim for free but would rather just buy in. This may be another example of why there is no Buy support other than people wanting to get rich off the coin. If profit takers are all you can rely on to buy out merchants it won't make the Merchants happy.

we could even get an SLR float in parades and hand out free coins with a paper wallet or something like that.. not a bad idea at all in some places where PV systems are known to be popular

If aliens could find about our Solar certainly was gather to stock in....