Topic: [ANN][VTR] vTorrent - Share with freedom | 2FA | HD | @Bittrex - page 158. (Read 436215 times)

Maybe something like DarkGravityWave for difficulty re-target:

Charge cost per size; until $x income is reached within a 30 day period; then discount of x% applied?

This means that fees are shared more equally around the network, as your earnings can be capped to encourage more people to seed and allow more people to share in profits.

I'm still keen on first 100 seeders get a share from everyone else's fees (provided they are also still seeding) in order to start a race to seed new files  

Having a transaction on VTR network everytime when a block of 512K is transferred is indeed a big load on the network, and also the size of a VTR blocks will be really big (as each block should contain too many transactions in this case).

Maybe those "pieces" should not be fixed in size, but be of different sizes depending on the size of the specific shared content (fixed for every torrent file - bigger for big torrents, smaller for small torrents)..?

The payment needs to be flexible. Buyer / seller market.

I can watch unlimited HD movies on Netflix for a set price:

1. Netflix monthly price (HD and 4k)
2. ISP monthly price (uncapped)

~$30/month

If my broadband is a fixed price, then I'd be happy to earn the cost of my monthly broadband, plus a little extra. But my costs are capped, so at some point I would consider reducing the cost of seeding bandwidth.

Yes I think it should be fairly known that it would be impossible to store actual 'data' on the VTR network, rather only a record of it.

My point is that if a transaction is made every time a 512KB "piece size" is sent then if, say, 100TB is transferred within a day (in the scope of the larger picture of the torrent network this is nothing) then it would result in 195,312,500 "piece sizes". I'd say we set our eyes towards 100TB/day as the gold standard at this moment in development (or even 10TB/day) and if things progressed beyond that then adapt accordingly.

How exactly that equates to VTR's blockchain is unknown at this point, but if it indeed resulted in that many transactions that would be a whole lot of bloat/data for the VTR blockchain to handle.

I just want to imagine a project in which we are not envisioning 1TB/day (1.3 million "piece sizes") but rather looking far beyond that.

Is there a set of options that vtorrent (dev) would like us to consider as opposed to 512 kb "piece sizes" (as per your post)?
i.e.

• 512kb
• 1mb
• 2.5mb
• 5mb
• 10mb
• 25mb

I think the reality is that any torrent with a file size of ~1-100MB is a unique scenario where seeding probably isn't a big deal, but for your bigger torrents what should this so-called "piece size" be determined as?

Let me just check what's going on...

Data is not going to be stored on the VTR network? The BitTorrent network is going to carry on doing what it does. This pricing structure is just a way to quantify the charge / bandwidth, not charge / storage space on the chain.

I guess it may have more been about the 512kb "blocks".

Is each "block" a separate transaction on the blockchain? Or how does it work?

I suppose we need to look at what the average filesize of a torrent is and what the current maximum/minimum is.

I'd say for minimum we're looking at 1MB (2 "blocks") and as a maximum probably 1TB (1,953,125 "blocks")

I don't think the minimum size would ever really change (i.e. for distribution of certain text files/PDF documents which are never going to go anywhere) whereas the maximum could conceivably increase over the next few years.

I think it is just an example, dev put out for us to understand calculation easily 

No chance of an increase in prices? lol

Looks like some $ or BTC pricing mechanism is needed.

Sorry is this for tokens or for actual VTR?

If its for VTR and not tokens then the entire currency would currently only hold 10TB of data which is smaller than a drop in the ocean.

Or are users able to set a price (in which case 0.5mb/VTR would be extremely high).

When will the wallet with the torrent system in it be available for anyone to d'l

Thinking about this:

What is needed is an incentives model for people to actually seed. A great outcome is opening many to one payment channels so that people downloading content can get it super fast.

What would be great is a legal 'ponzi' type model. The source seeder, lets say they are the rights holder for the sake of creating an example, gets a cut from everyone who copies a file and then make it accessible to others.

This generates a race to seed the best content.

All the way down from the original seeder, the distributors who copy and re-seed get a cut of the bandwidth payments as part of the royalty share, but based on how quick they are to get into the seeding list.

>> So, I'm the rights holder. My James Bond movie is released using vTorrent.

>> The first 100 seeders have to pay a royalty when they get paid.

>> When the next 1,000 seeders copy the file from the first 100 seeders, they also have to pay the royalty, but now the first 100 seeders don't have to pass on all the royalty. They get to keep some of the royalty.

>> When the next 10,000 seeders copy the file, they collect the royalty, but now the first 1,000 get to keep some of the royalty, the first 100 get to keep some more of the royalty, etc.

At every stage the seeders get to skim some of the royalty depending on how quick they were to seed and whether they have kept their seeds live.

This is no different to rights holders negotiating royalty discounts depending on how big a distributor you are. They may start with a royalty payment of 20%, but in the end they are getting 5%, but 5% of a really big number, so they make more money overall.  

For the first 100 seeders, they could end up making $100,000 each from the James Bond movie, over and above their bandwidth cost. The next tier of 1,000 seeders gets to make $100 each, the next tier get to make $10, etc. Being in the 10,000 seeder list gets your bandwidth charges that you impose, but probably only a few $1's as extra profit.

You get the idea.

edit

People hear the word 'ponzi' and they automatically think of something illegal. So lets clarify this a little.

Pyramid selling or multi-level marketing. Call it what you will. This incentives model built into the protocol would drive competition to be seeders. People would become ASIC's. BitTorrent would be powered by vTorrent seeders.

This is the race to $10bn marketcap we were looking for. Make it so Nr.1

wow nice explanation mate i would like to join the ride i seen very big potential for this coin to rise up so no need to waste time but
to keep collecting trexx only got good price to collect thanks mate for this info good luck.

I am a particular fan of creating a royalty payments channel:



This way, seeders can set the fees they pass on to rights holders. Rights holders can declare to the market what percentages they are prepared to accept, and again this can change over time depending on the rights holder.

For example, on first release, the rights holder might want to set the seeding price and the royalty percentage they are prepared to accept. As content becomes stale, the price might move to a market based model with the rights holder accepting less in terms of percentage share.

Lets say the rights holder is a software company that releases their software but wants to charge $500. They might want to keep 90% of that and offer 10% to seeders. This is like an affiliates program.

Or, lets say the rights holder is a movie company. They might to release James Bond xyz to seeders to help distribute their film. They might want to charge $5 per stream, and only want to keep 20% for themselves to encourage the market not to pirate the movie.

It would be interesting to have a verified rights holder seeder which shares a percentage with all other seeders. This means rights holders can be the source seeder, but others get a share for being distributors. ISP's would love it if large movie files were distributed on local area networks.

With a rights percentage share option, vTorrent would find itself being listed on sites like download.com and promoted by movie companies.

It's probably worth looking at what the market is doing in this area, then seeing which models look worth adopting.

Joystream is using the following approach:



* Anyone with spare bandwith can use JoyStream and earn Bitcoin, at what ever price they choose, in exchange for seeding to peers. If you have some rare content which no one else has, you are rewarded by being able to charge higher prices.

* JoyStream makes it possible to download and seek to any part of a large HD audio or video file by simply requesting and paying for it directly, which makes streaming work as well as on the web

* JoyStream rewards seeders for providing bandwidth with micropayments, and this leads to much higher download speeds on all content.

They seem to have download section for their latest alpha or beta release http://joystream.co/

So, in essence, they use payment channels to let downloaders pay uploaders using market decides the fees / charges based pricing.

This is like an auction pricing mechanism. Probably similar to the way transaction fees are handled by Bitcoin clients now.

This looks similar to what you have said:

Dear all,


We are in the process of designing the way seeders should earn their token (transferable to VTR) from seeding, as torrent file seeding normally divided into pieces, in the beginning we will implement static piece size (most likely 512Kb pieces) and have user settable demand price per piece.

For example, 700mb file, if user pre-defined price at 0.5 VTR per piece

700*1024/512 = 1400 pieces

Then users would earn roughly around 700 VTR for 700mb file, AND only if he is the only user seeding this torrent at that given moment.

In real-life scenarios, users only earn from the pieces they contributed or seeded to the network, and seeders are earning from leachers not VTR network.

If anybody have any suggestions or ideas about how we should reward the seeders, please PM me or reply in thread.


Regards,

vTorrent

Just over 2 months, that would make it two years since the project started. Damn that's gone by fast.

PoSV2 should take about 77 days.

This means December 17, 2016

I doubt the devs would fix hard fork dates if they haven't got something working.

If you look back they said without it then things would be tricky.  Using a token within a token probably gives some flexibility on issues like that.

Not long till the first hard fork, hopefully Santa will bring us a nice price correction if we've been good little boys and girls

Things are really getting HOT now about VTR ... just when will the next releases is the questions.
Patiently waiting here till December of this year!!!