Topic: [Antminer S1 Sales open] Price changes daily, now 0.414 BTC for 180GH/s - page 61. (Read 346284 times)
April 25, 2014, 11:38:05 AM
Knew I should have waited until this morning to order!
April 25, 2014, 11:35:32 AM
I was just thinking the same thing about the Coupon's. It would be just my luck that they are out when the coupons come.
April 25, 2014, 11:33:03 AM
Guys , don't be naive.
Bitmain are not idiots, they want to get rid of the S1 as they are obsolete/dead already.
They will soon present a new model or something with lower consumption.( I am not talking about the unsuccessful S2)
Don't start with the undervolt / underclock options, please. This is not a permanent solution.
Bitmain are not idiots, they want to get rid of the S1 as they are obsolete/dead already.
They will soon present a new model or something with lower consumption.( I am not talking about the unsuccessful S2)
Don't start with the undervolt / underclock options, please. This is not a permanent solution.
With an electricity price of 0,0573 dollarcents they can mine for quote a while Here in Belgium.
Wondering when we Will get those coupons, I hope not when all S1's are sold out...
April 25, 2014, 11:31:25 AM
Guys , don't be naive.
Bitmain are not idiots, they want to get rid of the S1 as they are obsolete/dead already.
They will soon present a new model or something with lower consumption.( I am not talking about the unsuccessful S2)
Don't start with the undervolt / underclock options, please. This is not a permanent solution.
Bitmain are not idiots, they want to get rid of the S1 as they are obsolete/dead already.
They will soon present a new model or something with lower consumption.( I am not talking about the unsuccessful S2)
Don't start with the undervolt / underclock options, please. This is not a permanent solution.
this is the best comment here.
+1000 for you.
and please do not hate, appreciate. s1 soon become like USB erupted 333mhz.
If one unit produce only 0.01 btc now what will produce next month? how many units simple bob will need to make money? and please don't give this bulshit about hobby etc. s1 was great miner, was because time to move on. s2 not that great anymore. future...will see
April 25, 2014, 11:22:08 AM
Guys , don't be naive.
Bitmain are not idiots, they want to get rid of the S1 as they are obsolete/dead already.
They will soon present a new model or something with lower consumption.( I am not talking about the unsuccessful S2)
Don't start with the undervolt / underclock options, please. This is not a permanent solution.
Bitmain are not idiots, they want to get rid of the S1 as they are obsolete/dead already.
They will soon present a new model or something with lower consumption.( I am not talking about the unsuccessful S2)
Don't start with the undervolt / underclock options, please. This is not a permanent solution.
April 25, 2014, 11:00:35 AM
New price for AntMiner S1: 0.63 0.619 btc each one, shipping cost included.
damn how long can you go? (not complaining just impressed)
it can go to zero usd per Gh, useless hardware.
Maybe even negative usd per Gh. Soon all miners will blow up, Bitcoin will die, and Dorian will have a heart attack.
Time to pack up and leave boys. Igorr has it all figured out...
April 25, 2014, 10:57:27 AM
New price for AntMiner S1: 0.63 0.619 btc each one, shipping cost included.
damn how long can you go? (not complaining just impressed)
it can go to zero usd per Gh, useless hardware.
April 25, 2014, 10:12:30 AM
still cant login to bitmain website. Is anyone else having the same issue?
Its working like charm. clear cookies
Thanks, removing cookies worked
As usual..
April 25, 2014, 09:55:57 AM
still cant login to bitmain website. Is anyone else having the same issue?
Its working like charm. clear cookies
Thanks, removing cookies worked
April 25, 2014, 09:40:35 AM
still cant login to bitmain website. Is anyone else having the same issue?
Its working like charm. clear cookies
I'm also able to get there this morning.
http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/
April 25, 2014, 09:23:14 AM
still cant login to bitmain website. Is anyone else having the same issue?
Its working like charm. clear cookies
I'm also able to get there this morning.
April 25, 2014, 09:18:16 AM
still cant login to bitmain website. Is anyone else having the same issue?
Its working like charm. clear cookies
April 25, 2014, 09:14:27 AM
And he wants to leave out taxation law to make it true.
I wasn't leaving out tax law to "make it true", I was leaving out U.S. tax law as we're not all citizens of the U.S. Whether or not you turn a profit in the long run has a number of layers to it, depending on how tax law works out in the country you pay taxes in. I'm pleased that you've done the numbers for yourself, and invite everyone to do the same for themselves, in their unique situation.
That was really the point of this exercise, doing the math yourself on a solid foundation of logic.
And yes, you can always sell these units for a profit on eBay, or write off the expense on your taxes as a business expense, or do any other number of things to come out ahead. What you can't do, however, is call mining less BTC than you paid a profit because the exchange rate went up in your favor. If the exchange rate went down, with the same logic, you've doubled down on your loss.
April 25, 2014, 09:12:16 AM
still cant login to bitmain website. Is anyone else having the same issue?
April 25, 2014, 08:50:39 AM
Price down again!
Again?
Still overpriced.
Wait few more days.
Bitmain no coupons? I though by ordering 5 units -AGAIN , im so kind returning customer...Obviously not.
Does anyone have coupons from bitmain?
April 25, 2014, 08:36:18 AM
Price down again!
April 25, 2014, 08:24:41 AM
well then don't use your mined coins to buy new hardware with ?? use fiat to buy new coins and use those coins as a vehicle to pay for ur new hardware. problem solved.
Nope, doesn't work that way. If you buy BTC with fiat and you end up mining less BTC than the BTC you spent on the hardware, regardless of what fiat you paid, you've netted a loss. The conversion from fiat to BTC doesn't matter, because you paid in BTC. Let's do some math (complicated tax issues out of the picture).
We're going to simplify the numbers, so it's easy to digest:
Scenario A: You purchase 1BTC for the exchange price of $100USD, then immediately purchase a miner that costs 1BTC. It's super-fast! During the lifetime of the device (which we'll say is the time that it makes more in BTC than it costs to feed it electricity) it produces 0.93BTC before you're mining at a loss. When you go to the exchange, BTC has doubled in price to $200USD. You exchange your 0.93BTC for $186USD. This appears to be making a profit, until you get to...
Scenario B: You purchase 1BTC for the exchange price of $100USD, then hodl it. When you go to the exchange (at the same time as you would in the first scenario) BTC has doubled in price to $200USD. You exchange your 1BTC for $200USD. You did no mining, and doubled your money.
In the first scenario, you lost BTC, period. Regardless of what the fiat rate is, you will always get less exchanged fiat if your miner cost more than it made versus just holding the BTC. There's no getting around that, you lost BTC. Profitability in mining should always be calculated in BTC if you paid for the gear in BTC.
Now, the inverse is true if you paid in fiat, and I know that sounds crazy! If you buy a $100 dollar miner in fiat, and it generates BTC that you later sell for more than $100 dollars, you've made a profit. It works this way because the "value" of the dollar is (mostly) fixed, where as the value of BTC is not. If you pay in BTC, you need to make your profit estimates on BTC. If you paid in fiat, you should be using fiat to base your profit estimates.
That said, I enjoy mining and I've been lucky enough to turn a profit (in BTC!) on my mining endeavors so far--this isn't me shooting down mining by any means, I just know the math is confusing and want to lend a hand. I myself had to sit in a recliner and sip scotch while I worked it out! Everyone should give it a go, as it's an excellent mental exercise.
That is exactly RIGHT...!
If you pay for miner(s) in BTC...count your return in BTC...
If you pay for your miner(s) in FIAT...count your return in FIAT...
Don't get confused by speculation in exchnge's rates...
This math is still faulty, because you're forgetting that you can still sell your machine on ebay for $50 to $75, at which point you will make more money than the straight exchange of BTC mined. Always remember, just because it's not profitable to mine, doesn't mean someone won't buy it from you who doesn't know that on ebay.
And he wants to leave out taxation law to make it true.
As a USA citizen mining is like self employment i.e. a small business schedule c
Buy and hold is passive investment income i.e. schedule d
these are hugely different .
Mining can increase your social security retirement check. >> you pay self-employment tax on any net profit over 400 usd and that makes your social security check bigger when you retire.
Buy and hold does not. >>>>>>> If I go to coin base today and buy 2 coins at 450 usd each I need do nothing until I sell them. i.e. I can hold them 4 years then sell and report the gain.
a in house mining profit has to be taxed way differently then a buy and hold.
So each has a different set of tax rules. If you are 57 like I am and you earn 20k a year mining net profit. (in fiat as the USA government does not give a shit about the coins just the fiat price)
you need to pay about 15% in self employment tax (think of it a social security tax) at 65-68 you retire and go to collect social security tax. that money paid in for the mining profit will make your social security check much larger.
Sorry you need to figure this in whenever you discuss mining vs buy and hold. So if you are USA and over 55 mining at a fiat profit has a real possibility of boosting your social security check.
If you are under 55 it will take longer to collect and mining is a bit less attractive then buy and hold. I blend all methods. If I were 30. I would open a coin base account and buy 100usd a week in coin. Never cash for 5 years in a row. Then after 5 years I would decide what to do.
but this is really threadjacking.
I am debating if I want another 1 or 2 s-1's
April 25, 2014, 08:21:47 AM
particularly for anyone who pays <$0.15/kwh and has the extra space and power. (Believing that the future price of BTC will rise also makes the calculations look a bit better).
How expensive is power for you guys o.O i am at $0,07/kwh on a commercial plan and feel that is high.i have free power, till end of 2016 for sure =D
so $0.0000/kwh
April 25, 2014, 08:15:23 AM
Wow another price drop. Cool.
Let's see...I can bring 3 ants to my mothers, around 6 to my grandparents and a couple at a friend. Being energy capped sux.
Let's see...I can bring 3 ants to my mothers, around 6 to my grandparents and a couple at a friend. Being energy capped sux.
April 25, 2014, 08:04:13 AM
well then don't use your mined coins to buy new hardware with ?? use fiat to buy new coins and use those coins as a vehicle to pay for ur new hardware. problem solved.
Nope, doesn't work that way. If you buy BTC with fiat and you end up mining less BTC than the BTC you spent on the hardware, regardless of what fiat you paid, you've netted a loss. The conversion from fiat to BTC doesn't matter, because you paid in BTC. Let's do some math (complicated tax issues out of the picture).
We're going to simplify the numbers, so it's easy to digest:
Scenario A: You purchase 1BTC for the exchange price of $100USD, then immediately purchase a miner that costs 1BTC. It's super-fast! During the lifetime of the device (which we'll say is the time that it makes more in BTC than it costs to feed it electricity) it produces 0.93BTC before you're mining at a loss. When you go to the exchange, BTC has doubled in price to $200USD. You exchange your 0.93BTC for $186USD. This appears to be making a profit, until you get to...
Scenario B: You purchase 1BTC for the exchange price of $100USD, then hodl it. When you go to the exchange (at the same time as you would in the first scenario) BTC has doubled in price to $200USD. You exchange your 1BTC for $200USD. You did no mining, and doubled your money.
In the first scenario, you lost BTC, period. Regardless of what the fiat rate is, you will always get less exchanged fiat if your miner cost more than it made versus just holding the BTC. There's no getting around that, you lost BTC. Profitability in mining should always be calculated in BTC if you paid for the gear in BTC.
Now, the inverse is true if you paid in fiat, and I know that sounds crazy! If you buy a $100 dollar miner in fiat, and it generates BTC that you later sell for more than $100 dollars, you've made a profit. It works this way because the "value" of the dollar is (mostly) fixed, where as the value of BTC is not. If you pay in BTC, you need to make your profit estimates on BTC. If you paid in fiat, you should be using fiat to base your profit estimates.
That said, I enjoy mining and I've been lucky enough to turn a profit (in BTC!) on my mining endeavors so far--this isn't me shooting down mining by any means, I just know the math is confusing and want to lend a hand. I myself had to sit in a recliner and sip scotch while I worked it out! Everyone should give it a go, as it's an excellent mental exercise.
That is exactly RIGHT...!
If you pay for miner(s) in BTC...count your return in BTC...
If you pay for your miner(s) in FIAT...count your return in FIAT...
Don't get confused by speculation in exchnge's rates...
This math is still faulty, because you're forgetting that you can still sell your machine on ebay for $50 to $75, at which point you will make more money than the straight exchange of BTC mined. Always remember, just because it's not profitable to mine, doesn't mean someone won't buy it from you who doesn't know that on ebay.
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