Topic: [Antminer S1 Sales open] Price changes daily, now 0.414 BTC for 180GH/s - page 63. (Read 346286 times)

Nope, doesn't work that way.  If you buy BTC with fiat and you end up mining less BTC than the BTC you spent on the hardware, regardless of what fiat you paid, you've netted a loss.  The conversion from fiat to BTC doesn't matter, because you paid in BTC.  Let's do some math (complicated tax issues out of the picture).

We're going to simplify the numbers, so it's easy to digest:

Scenario A: You purchase 1BTC for the exchange price of $100USD, then immediately purchase a miner that costs 1BTC.  It's super-fast!  During the lifetime of the device (which we'll say is the time that it makes more in BTC than it costs to feed it electricity) it produces 0.93BTC before you're mining at a loss.  When you go to the exchange, BTC has doubled in price to $200USD.  You exchange your 0.93BTC for $186USD.  This appears to be making a profit, until you get to...

Scenario B: You purchase 1BTC for the exchange price of $100USD, then hodl it.  When you go to the exchange (at the same time as you would in the first scenario) BTC has doubled in price to $200USD.  You exchange your 1BTC for $200USD.  You did no mining, and doubled your money.

In the first scenario, you lost BTC, period.  Regardless of what the fiat rate is, you will always get less exchanged fiat if your miner cost more than it made versus just holding the BTC.  There's no getting around that, you lost BTC.  Profitability in mining should always be calculated in BTC if you paid for the gear in BTC.

Now, the inverse is true if you paid in fiat, and I know that sounds crazy!  If you buy a $100 dollar miner in fiat, and it generates BTC that you later sell for more than $100 dollars, you've made a profit.  It works this way because the "value" of the dollar is (mostly) fixed, where as the value of BTC is not.  If you pay in BTC, you need to make your profit estimates on BTC.  If you paid in fiat, you should be using fiat to base your profit estimates.

That said, I enjoy mining and I've been lucky enough to turn a profit (in BTC!) on my mining endeavors so far--this isn't me shooting down mining by any means, I just know the math is confusing and want to lend a hand.  I myself had to sit in a recliner and sip scotch while I worked it out! Everyone should give it a go, as it's an excellent mental exercise.

that is part of the solution. always cash in mined coins the day you mine them (well fast under a week).

  if you want to hold coins always buy them. keep them separate from mined coins.

well then don't use your mined coins to buy new hardware with ?? use fiat to buy new coins and use those coins as a vehicle to pay for ur new hardware. problem solved.

yeah if you have psu's around this is  a good deal.  even if you have 2 or 3 in house you could list them on ebay at blowout price say 480 and make a quick buck that way.

I realize that Bitmain maybe clearing out old S1 stock to make room for S2s, but this is still a screaming buy IMHO assuming one has the capacity to deal with the power requirements.

 I agree with you and I have the psu's on hand.

USA based like me have some definite guidelines to follow.

 Mining now has a lot more risks then many USA miners may know.

for instance I pd 2860usd for a hosted miner here.


https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.6296463

why ? it is gray as to passive or active income.

I paid for 9 antminer s-1 why they are all going to mine or be sold on ebay  they are all active income

I paid for 30 gridseed 5 chip units and they mine I will sell them later---- all active income.

lastly I hold about 8 coins  why they are passive investment income.



I want a mix of all 3   some that I can kind of say was investment or active some that is passive and some that is really active.

Here is one example of a real problem a miner has.  He purchased a KNC jupiter back in the day and grabbed a lot of coin at 1000 usd.  he said I am holding them they will go to 2000 usd.   well guess what those coins are now down to 500 (give or take a few bucks)  so he now has to based his taxex for 2013 on the 1000 price when they mined..  not the 500 dollar price they are.  But this is a thread jack.

I grabbed 2 s-1's today at .63 each and was happy to get that price.

I  can't believe some people are actually arguing that a S1 for .63 BTC is not a great deal. Where else are you going to be able to get 1TH of mining power delivered within a week for 3.15 BTC (plus the cost of power supplies)?

I hadn't planned on buying anymore S1s, but the latest price drop was too good of a deal to pass up.

This is by far the best deal going for hardware that will be delivered immediately.

Now this is a interesting thought exercise!  Shall we break down the math even further for individuals in the US?  I would be interested in how those numbers look side by side.  What does the difference look like for purchased equipment deprecation, taxes leveraged against generated coins with the device, power expenses, etc?  I suppose we're thread-jacking at this point, but I would be happy to discuss the nitty-gritty more!

wrong info for anyone in the usa. ----- well I should say  not complete info

holding coins are passive income mining is active income.  completely different tax laws.  I do not need any passive income .  I need active income ie mining or even selling the gear on  ebay at a profit .

All buy and hold advice or mine instead advice needs to now say if you are subject to USA tax law buy and hold  creates different tax consequences then  mine and sell

My advice to buy this at .63 btc should also say if you mine the USA tax law is different then if you  buy and hold.

 no as it is a very flakey model no matter what i do it won't allow the 393 setting. it may have the older firmware and I am a bit afraid to flash it.  I have  had my hands on 8 in house 1 doa

 7 work 6 work great   and the one flakey one.

 I sold a few of the good ones on ebay.  holding on to the flakey one.  it will be the first one I try to under volt and under clock come mid june.  unless fiat price jumps then I can put it off.

Let's do some basic math here, guys.  While I understand the concept you are trying to describe, the logic is still wrong.

If you take the cash, buy the miner and make .5BTC, you have lost the money you would have made by simply holding the bitcoins.  Regardless of the current price of BTC, 0.5BTC will always be less than 0.63BTC.  All day, every day.  Mining will only turn a profit if it creates more BTC than the BTC you spent for the gear, regardless of the price of BTC.  Dig it?

and still bitmain keeps silent about expired coupons....that we couldn't use because there was no stock; and/or the website was not working when there was stock....

yes but if you have a PSU laying round doing nothing anyway it will ROI. what amazes me is that every other miner that I know costs a lot more per GH than the S1 and those sell. they sell because people buy in dollars and believe that the price of bitcoin will increase. it might not return the BTC you payed but if you pay $310 for the BTC needed and then buy, use it to mine, and then wait a few months, bitcoin could be worth $1000 per coin, so even if you only make 0.5BTC you would actually have $500 which is $190 profit.

Not quite. You should include the cost of a power supply. And since April is nearly over, you don't get a full month at the low difficulty in your calculation. Look at this:

https://tradeblock.com/mining/a/379dc97925

Although tradeblock is too pessimistic on difficulty increases a few months out. So yes, a new S1 might break even.

For the one that is running 195GH, have you tried the 393 setting?
These settings worked like a charm on one of my S1 that gace HW error galore on 400Mhz:

#option 'freq_value'    '5f05'  #393.75M
         #option 'chip_freq'     '393.75'
         #option 'timeout'       '34'

https://tradeblock.com/mining/a/a15e2a5c0d


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Man! You are a genius! I think you are a binary expert.

You have two of them: 0 1 but can't combinate...

Go back to school and learn some more....

Edit: Sorry, school is no good, they can't give you intellect...

I did this a guess what? it ROIs

http://i.gyazo.com/851662713e32af938e4f4db975fcfd41.png

you are idiot, calculator is for all .

Enter hardwer hashrate !
Enter Hardwer price !
Enter Power Use (W) !

And just click calculate, and you get this,

https://tradeblock.com/mining/a/a15e2a5c0d

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