Topic: ANTMINER S2 Discussion and Support Thread - page 174. (Read 355820 times)
miner sages around here as common as cockroaches at Taco Bell.
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That's why you see a number of people mentioning here in this thread that their S2's are coming thru with dust sucked into the power supplies.
To be clear, my S2's all appear brand new. the boards are spotless and appear right off of an assembly line. the heat sinks even have some shaved metal hanging from their edges, as if they were hastily chopped to size on a bandsaw a week ago - which i'm sure they were.
One of my S2's even had the sticker covering it's little piezo speaker still attached. it read "remove after cleaning".
I'm confident that these S2's are new and unused. Their power supplies, on the other hand, are clearly well used. but i don't really care. I imagine Bitmaintech sourced a ton of used power supplies.
Personally, i'd rather get an S2 with used power supply then 5 S1's and have to DIY bolt them to a power supply or two of my own. I've seen some rather scary S1 setups - glad to see mining becoming a little less fire hazardous.
If you're just looking to piss thru money - there's an awful lot of things in the world you can do that with - that are a lot more "fun" than BTC mining.
mining is fun. how many people buy a $200 box of lego, spend 2-3 days assembling it, and then put it away on a shelf as a decoration? setting up computer gear is fun for some people.
you can blow $1000 gambling for a few hours of fun in vegas and walk away empty-handed. Some people like me would consider bitcoin mining as a bit of a hobby, particularly one that can make a bit of profit if things go well. not many hobbies make any money.
also, mining depends on your outlook on BTC. do you see it at $1500 or $150 by the end of 2014? Its going to be at one of those extremes, and my money is on it going up (literally). I don't think its hard to envision a near-future where huge facilities hosting 10-20PH of power are located all over the globe, run by both private investors and/or banks and investment firms who want to produce their own bitcoins. If bitcoin continues to be the leading solution for a future-proof currency it will be very valuable in 5 years from now
BTC - in the US at least (and China for that matter) - is not going to get treated as "currency" - because the IRS is going to take a cut every single time you do an exchange where you make a gain. This means that to deal in BTC at all - you're going to have to keep copious records of all of your transactions if you ever enter 'the system' with BTC.
Bitcoin is more like a stock - that can be more freely traded - than it is a currency. And the government takes a cut out of stock transactions.
If you want to justify doing it on the basis that it's fun - that's fine. But I've yet to see anybody lately coming out with any math that proves that the mining thing is profitable - unless their doing what I proposed previously - and just pushing off all the costs onto somebody else.
To answer your question: no I don't see BTC at $1500 for sure. It might go there - but then again Apple stock *might* go there too. But what you're proposing here as a justification is just a unicorn dream. Not a sound basis for "investing" in mining machinery.
If I spend $3000 on a new welder - I can put it out in my garage and build stuff with it. If I'm in the business of making things - I can make stuff and sell it - or even if I just use it to fix broken stuff, I can justify the cost by how much money I saved fixing things myself over some number of years. Plus the welder WILL hold residual value over time. So figuring out it's payback time is pretty easy. Applying the same methodology to mining machinery - the payback just isn't there, UNLESS - you start plugging in fictional numbers - like $1500 BTC prices by the end of the year.
But then you're not talking about "investing" - you're talking about gambling. Lots of people gamble - only a very few ever make anything from it. But the "house" - always wins.
When I start seeing mining machinery go down into price range where they can pay themselves off in 30 days - based on an estimated difficulty level of 30 days out - then I'll start thinking the miner manufacturers are serious.
Right now - I think what they do is come out with new machines, run them for a period of time and then sell them off just as they're getting towards their payoff period. That's why you see a number of people mentioning here in this thread that their S2's are coming thru with dust sucked into the power supplies.
did anyone figure out the admin password change thing yet?
Can somebody please post a link for the new firmware? I have not received my AntMiner S2 yet, but would like to update as soon as I get it.
Also maybe even a process on how to update it? Sorry I have not update an AntMiner before..
Also maybe even a process on how to update it? Sorry I have not update an AntMiner before..
If you're just looking to piss thru money - there's an awful lot of things in the world you can do that with - that are a lot more "fun" than BTC mining.
mining is fun. how many people buy a $200 box of lego, spend 2-3 days assembling it, and then put it away on a shelf as a decoration? setting up computer gear is fun for some people.
you can blow $1000 gambling for a few hours of fun in vegas and walk away empty-handed. Some people like me would consider bitcoin mining as a bit of a hobby, particularly one that can make a bit of profit if things go well. not many hobbies make any money.
also, mining depends on your outlook on BTC. do you see it at $1500 or $150 by the end of 2014? Its going to be at one of those extremes, and my money is on it going up (literally). I don't think its hard to envision a near-future where huge facilities hosting 10-20PH of power are located all over the globe, run by both private investors and/or banks and investment firms who want to produce their own bitcoins. If bitcoin continues to be the leading solution for a future-proof currency it will be very valuable in 5 years from now
what a complete trainwreck. geezus. considering s1's will be worthless in 3 months tops. it's time for an alternative. how about a 5Th for 6.5 btc. mmmmm hmmmmm
Yeah - I don't get where the ROI is coming from on some of these units. Given the difficulty level - and constant increases, the market price of BTC, the cost of the mining rigs - and the upcoming boning from the tax man, I just don't see it.
Must be that new math I've been hearing about.
There is not a single machine that would get your ROI unless you are playing the long term game. Price of BTC will go up to reflect that difficulty changes and cost of the miners. At the moment, BTC is going through some changes and government announcements having negative impact on the price.
Think this as an investment rather than regular monthly income.
Price of BTC could be $2,000 or $20 in the next 12 months.
Even you design your own asics and manufacturer your miners you will not make your money back unless you pre-mine and sell those miners few weeks / months later just like every other manufacturer.
That reasoning is a fallacy. A piece of hardware will generate a relatively finite amount of BTC in it's lifetime. As difficulty increases, the amount of BTC generated by a piece of hardware asymptotically approaches zero. Given the amount of BTC the hardware will generate and given the amount of fiat required to purchase said hardware, it usually makes more sense to buy and hold btc now if you assume that price of BTC will go up.
Yeah but where's the fun in that? You can't 'unbox' a bitcoin like you can a miner...
If you're just looking to piss thru money - there's an awful lot of things in the world you can do that with - that are a lot more "fun" than BTC mining.
what a complete trainwreck. geezus. considering s1's will be worthless in 3 months tops. it's time for an alternative. how about a 5Th for 6.5 btc. mmmmm hmmmmm
Yeah - I don't get where the ROI is coming from on some of these units. Given the difficulty level - and constant increases, the market price of BTC, the cost of the mining rigs - and the upcoming boning from the tax man, I just don't see it.
Must be that new math I've been hearing about.
There is not a single machine that would get your ROI unless you are playing the long term game. Price of BTC will go up to reflect that difficulty changes and cost of the miners. At the moment, BTC is going through some changes and government announcements having negative impact on the price.
Think this as an investment rather than regular monthly income.
Price of BTC could be $2,000 or $20 in the next 12 months.
Even you design your own asics and manufacturer your miners you will not make your money back unless you pre-mine and sell those miners few weeks / months later just like every other manufacturer.
That reasoning is a fallacy. A piece of hardware will generate a relatively finite amount of BTC in it's lifetime. As difficulty increases, the amount of BTC generated by a piece of hardware asymptotically approaches zero. Given the amount of BTC the hardware will generate and given the amount of fiat required to purchase said hardware, it usually makes more sense to buy and hold btc now if you assume that price of BTC will go up.
Exactly.
Once you add in all of those things you mentioned - AND , if you're in the US you're now going to have to factor in capital gains taxes - I don't see the math in it.
I don't see BTC mining as a "long term" game - if the hardware doesn't pay itself back in a relatively short period of time - what you're looking at is potentially an ever extending payout period.
Quite honestly I think one of the only ways the mining starts to make any sort of "sense" ( if you want to call it that) - is if you're some sort of IT guy who has access to a budget and a lab infrastructure - and can buy the machines on the company's dime, put them in the company's lab (where they pay for electricity and cooling) - and then direct the BTC output to your own wallet.
That way you basically have no upfront costs and you get all the profit - so it's spectacularly profitable FOR YOU. And if you're in one of those companies that brings in equipment by the pallet load and ships out old equipment by the pallet load - they're likely not even going to notice the miners showing up on the budget.
If you're stuck with all of the costs - I don't see the mining working.
As for this being off topic to this thread - I think it relates directly - because even though Bitmain is sending out one of the better products at a decent price (at least compared to others) - for the mining to "work" IMHO - their prices need to be less than half of where they are now.
what a complete trainwreck. geezus. considering s1's will be worthless in 3 months tops. it's time for an alternative. how about a 5Th for 6.5 btc. mmmmm hmmmmm
Yeah - I don't get where the ROI is coming from on some of these units. Given the difficulty level - and constant increases, the market price of BTC, the cost of the mining rigs - and the upcoming boning from the tax man, I just don't see it.
Must be that new math I've been hearing about.
There is not a single machine that would get your ROI unless you are playing the long term game. Price of BTC will go up to reflect that difficulty changes and cost of the miners. At the moment, BTC is going through some changes and government announcements having negative impact on the price.
Think this as an investment rather than regular monthly income.
Price of BTC could be $2,000 or $20 in the next 12 months.
Even you design your own asics and manufacturer your miners you will not make your money back unless you pre-mine and sell those miners few weeks / months later just like every other manufacturer.
That reasoning is a fallacy. A piece of hardware will generate a relatively finite amount of BTC in it's lifetime. As difficulty increases, the amount of BTC generated by a piece of hardware asymptotically approaches zero. Given the amount of BTC the hardware will generate and given the amount of fiat required to purchase said hardware, it usually makes more sense to buy and hold btc now if you assume that price of BTC will go up.
most of my equipment profitability calculations assume that the difficulty jumps will slowly decrease in size from the current 15-20%/jump to 10%/jump in the late fall, to 8%/jump around the end of the year. At current prices that puts break-even sometime around august, and stops being profitable around december. however, if prices go up then it may remain profitable (if only marginally) to keep running through to february/march.
i know what you mean though, BTC returns should be calculated from a BTC price invested. calculating this shows significant margins, but those margins are eaten up at the current BTC/electricity price ratio - espescially for those paying more than $0.20/kwh in warmer climates
what a complete trainwreck. geezus. considering s1's will be worthless in 3 months tops. it's time for an alternative. how about a 5Th for 6.5 btc. mmmmm hmmmmm
Yeah - I don't get where the ROI is coming from on some of these units. Given the difficulty level - and constant increases, the market price of BTC, the cost of the mining rigs - and the upcoming boning from the tax man, I just don't see it.
Must be that new math I've been hearing about.
There is not a single machine that would get your ROI unless you are playing the long term game. Price of BTC will go up to reflect that difficulty changes and cost of the miners. At the moment, BTC is going through some changes and government announcements having negative impact on the price.
Think this as an investment rather than regular monthly income.
Price of BTC could be $2,000 or $20 in the next 12 months.
Even you design your own asics and manufacturer your miners you will not make your money back unless you pre-mine and sell those miners few weeks / months later just like every other manufacturer.
That reasoning is a fallacy. A piece of hardware will generate a relatively finite amount of BTC in it's lifetime. As difficulty increases, the amount of BTC generated by a piece of hardware asymptotically approaches zero. Given the amount of BTC the hardware will generate and given the amount of fiat required to purchase said hardware, it usually makes more sense to buy and hold btc now if you assume that price of BTC will go up.
Yeah but where's the fun in that? You can't 'unbox' a bitcoin like you can a miner...
what a complete trainwreck. geezus. considering s1's will be worthless in 3 months tops. it's time for an alternative. how about a 5Th for 6.5 btc. mmmmm hmmmmm
Yeah - I don't get where the ROI is coming from on some of these units. Given the difficulty level - and constant increases, the market price of BTC, the cost of the mining rigs - and the upcoming boning from the tax man, I just don't see it.
Must be that new math I've been hearing about.
There is not a single machine that would get your ROI unless you are playing the long term game. Price of BTC will go up to reflect that difficulty changes and cost of the miners. At the moment, BTC is going through some changes and government announcements having negative impact on the price.
Think this as an investment rather than regular monthly income.
Price of BTC could be $2,000 or $20 in the next 12 months.
Even you design your own asics and manufacturer your miners you will not make your money back unless you pre-mine and sell those miners few weeks / months later just like every other manufacturer.
That reasoning is a fallacy. A piece of hardware will generate a relatively finite amount of BTC in it's lifetime. As difficulty increases, the amount of BTC generated by a piece of hardware asymptotically approaches zero. Given the amount of BTC the hardware will generate and given the amount of fiat required to purchase said hardware, it usually makes more sense to buy and hold btc now if you assume that price of BTC will go up.
what a complete trainwreck. geezus. considering s1's will be worthless in 3 months tops. it's time for an alternative. how about a 5Th for 6.5 btc. mmmmm hmmmmm
Yeah - I don't get where the ROI is coming from on some of these units. Given the difficulty level - and constant increases, the market price of BTC, the cost of the mining rigs - and the upcoming boning from the tax man, I just don't see it.
Must be that new math I've been hearing about.
There is not a single machine that would get your ROI unless you are playing the long term game. Price of BTC will go up to reflect that difficulty changes and cost of the miners. At the moment, BTC is going through some changes and government announcements having negative impact on the price.
Think this as an investment rather than regular monthly income.
Price of BTC could be $2,000 or $20 in the next 12 months.
Even you design your own asics and manufacturer your miners you will not make your money back unless you pre-mine and sell those miners few weeks / months later just like every other manufacturer.
what a complete trainwreck. geezus. considering s1's will be worthless in 3 months tops. it's time for an alternative. how about a 5Th for 6.5 btc. mmmmm hmmmmm
Yeah - I don't get where the ROI is coming from on some of these units. Given the difficulty level - and constant increases, the market price of BTC, the cost of the mining rigs - and the upcoming boning from the tax man, I just don't see it.
Must be that new math I've been hearing about.
Yeah, I get that too, chasing ghosts right now. Try updating to the latest firmware (mentioned earlier in the thread) it's a firmware issue that'll be sorted out soon enough :-)
Hopefully! It does seem that the save/apply or stop/start fixes the issue reasonably well as long as you don't power cycle and you wait around long enough for it to fail once or twice. Yeah, I get that too, chasing ghosts right now. Try updating to the latest firmware (mentioned earlier in the thread) it's a firmware issue that'll be sorted out soon enough :-)
Hopefully! It does seem that the save/apply or stop/start fixes the issue reasonably well as long as you don't power cycle and you wait around long enough for it to fail once or twice.
Is anyone seeing an issue where their S2 mines for about 10-15 or so minutes then stops and starts beeping? This happens every time I power cycle and I have to stop/start cgminer or click "Save and Apply" under miner settings to get it going again. (I only discovered the second method this afternoon). After doing this once or a few times (varies), everything seems to work fine (for several hours, at least--still trying to get a good understanding of how often,etc...).
I've checked temps, re-seated boards, updated, checked all settings, power cycled, removed a board and let it run, switched the power cable (I'd initially put an older cable on it and it was getting a little warm in spots so I switched it out pretty quick) and checked all the other visible/accessible connections; all to no avail. I've been working with Juan at 112bit who is also working with the Bitmain techs. Just wondering if this is a widespread issue and if anyone has made any headway.
I've checked temps, re-seated boards, updated, checked all settings, power cycled, removed a board and let it run, switched the power cable (I'd initially put an older cable on it and it was getting a little warm in spots so I switched it out pretty quick) and checked all the other visible/accessible connections; all to no avail. I've been working with Juan at 112bit who is also working with the Bitmain techs. Just wondering if this is a widespread issue and if anyone has made any headway.
Yeah, I get that too, chasing ghosts right now. Try updating to the latest firmware (mentioned earlier in the thread) it's a firmware issue that'll be sorted out soon enough :-)
Is anyone seeing an issue where their S2 mines for about 10-15 or so minutes then stops and starts beeping? This happens every time I power cycle and I have to stop/start cgminer or click "Save and Apply" under miner settings to get it going again. (I only discovered the second method this afternoon). After doing this once or a few times (varies), everything seems to work fine (for several hours, at least--still trying to get a good understanding of how often,etc...).
I've checked temps, re-seated boards, updated, checked all settings, power cycled, removed a board and let it run, switched the power cable (I'd initially put an older cable on it and it was getting a little warm in spots so I switched it out pretty quick) and checked all the other visible/accessible connections; all to no avail. I've been working with Juan at 112bit who is also working with the Bitmain techs. Just wondering if this is a widespread issue and if anyone has made any headway.
I've checked temps, re-seated boards, updated, checked all settings, power cycled, removed a board and let it run, switched the power cable (I'd initially put an older cable on it and it was getting a little warm in spots so I switched it out pretty quick) and checked all the other visible/accessible connections; all to no avail. I've been working with Juan at 112bit who is also working with the Bitmain techs. Just wondering if this is a widespread issue and if anyone has made any headway.
Well if you underclock the left too you can get your density as the right for NO additional cost ..... just saying.
I would rather have numbers work because convenience aint going to pay you back in the end. To each his own.....but I like your style if you can afford it
No he wouldn't. He might get the same W/GH but that would make the already worse GH/U even worse.I would rather have numbers work because convenience aint going to pay you back in the end. To each his own.....but I like your style if you can afford it
Footprint is irrelevant, only power usage. I pay $50/mo per rack + Power. So if I underclock the S1's and managed to get the same W/GH then they'd only cost me < $100/mo more than the S2's
Where is that...that you pay $50 arack...NOT Florida, I guess...?
So is everyone's S2 working perfectly?
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