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Topic: Anyone following the ebola outbreak? - page 20. (Read 39823 times)

legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1002
Gresham's Lawyer
September 04, 2014, 03:03:29 PM
http://www.livescience.com/47685-ebola-outbreak-duration-prediction.html

"Grim Ebola Prediction: Outbreak Is Unstoppable for Now, MD Says"

Quote
A doctor who just returned from treating Ebola patients in West Africa predicts the current Ebola outbreak will go on for more than a year, and will continue to spread unless a vaccine or other drugs that prevent or treat the disease are developed.

Zero chance of that.  Vaccines take a long time to develop, and then you have to grow, produce, test and distribute them.  Not going to happen within a year even with massive investment.

Quote
"I don't believe that our traditional methods of being able to control and stop outbreaks in rural areas … is going to be effective in most of the cities," Lucey said yesterday (Sept. 3) in a discussion held at Georgetown University Law Center that was streamed online. While the World Health Organization has released a plan to stop Ebola transmission within six to nine months, "I think that this outbreak is going to go on even longer than a year," Lucey said.

Yes, longer than a year, and it is likely that it will spread.  There is a lot of misplaced anger.  People think that America is in control of everything and should have "done something".  Others will blame EU or China (they are heavily invested in Africa) or whomever is getting the natural resources.  There will be angry infected people who need serious help but are not going to get it.
The medical resources are already stretched thinly, this is going to break them.  It kills doctors and nurses more than anyone.

Those with the capability to do something and are thinking that this is "someone else's problem" are wrong.  If you are in a city, it will be your problem sooner or later.

Quote
This large Ebola outbreak could have been prevented with an effective public health response at the beginning, said Lawrence Gostin, director of the O'Neill Institute for National and Global Health Law at Georgetown University. But the weak health systems of the affected countries left them unprepared to respond to the outbreak, Gostin said.

The international community should have been more generous in supporting poorer countries so they could develop the response capacities needed to contain the outbreak, Gostin and colleagues wrote in a recent briefing for the O'Neill Institute.

To help with the current outbreak, and prevent future ones, Gostin called for the establishment of an international "health systems fund," which would be supported by high-resource countries. The money would be used to strengthen the health systems in those countries, he said.

Oh yeah, give governments your money.  As if they need it and don't have as much as they can print already, as well as the ability to take it from everyone they want to.   If you are going to make a difference, you are going to have to do something yourself.  If you have the will and a way to do that, then "Government" may throw some of that money at you and give you the responsibility to choose who lives and who dies.  This is already deeply into triage due to resource constraints (mainly human resource).  Waiting for "government" to solve it isn't going to help until too late.  Not until their voters care and an election is looming and by then it will be far too late.
legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1217
September 04, 2014, 02:31:45 AM
The patient looks and sometimes behaves like a zombie.
I guess it's time to prepare for the zombie apocalypse

Seems like he received no food or water for days. Probably received very little medical attention as well. He decided that he had enough of it and tried to escape from the facility on his own. Even before this incident, there were reports that the Ebola treatment centers in Liberia (esp. those in Monrovia) were ill-equipped and under-staffed.
full member
Activity: 206
Merit: 100
September 04, 2014, 12:43:06 AM
The patient looks and sometimes behaves like a zombie.
I guess it's time to prepare for the zombie apocalypse
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1002
Gresham's Lawyer
September 03, 2014, 03:24:25 PM
http://www.businessinsider.com/afp-ebola-death-toll-at-more-than-1900-who-chief-2014-9

Ebola death toll at more than 1,900: WHO chief

Quote
"As of this week, we are reporting 3,500 cases confirmed in Guinea, Sierra Leone and Liberia and more than 1,900 deaths -- and the outbreak is rising," Margaret Chan told reporters in Washington.

The latest toll represents a significant increase from the 1,552 deaths and 3,069 cases reported by the Geneva-based organization just days ago.

Its not slowing, its still accelerating.
This outbreak has now passed the total for all previous known outbreaks.

Map is from April 2014

Current outbreak trends and projection:
Note: first chart is non-logarithmic, these do not include today's data which continues the trend.


And the projection forward:


Raw data and information is available at http://www.who.int/csr/don/archive/disease/ebola/en/
legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1217
September 03, 2014, 02:36:09 PM
Can it get any worse than this?

Ebola-infected patient in Liberia escapes quarantine, enters crowded market

http://rt.com/news/184660-ebola-patient-escapes-liberia

Hundreds of people might have got infected. But don't just blame the patient only. The authorities are also responsible for this. The president of Liberia, Ellen Johnson Sirleaf has proved to be an extremely incompetent individual. She was the one who gave the order to establish treatment centers in crowded slums (such as West Point) and other urban areas.
legendary
Activity: 3108
Merit: 1359
September 03, 2014, 10:58:40 AM
The same can happen with HIV, and other viral diseases such as Ebola.  
It's unknown for ebola viruses, but in case of HIV it's unlikely. Because many of drug resistance mutations are incompatible and can't be combined. Zidovudine resistance mutation results with greater susceptibility to Lamivudine. And vice versa, Lamivudine resistant strains are extremely vulnerable to Zidovudine.

In case of replacing Zidovudine monotherapy with Lamivudine monotherapy interesting thing happens. Zidovudine resistant strains are quickly mutating into Lamivudine resistant strains... But as the result, Zidovudine resistance is lost and this drug could be used again. Cheesy That's why Zidovudine and Lamivudine are frequently used for combined therapy. Incompatibility of resistance mutations prevents virus from achieving resistency to both drugs at the same time.

But there is also another point which will be correct for any genome, even if there are no sustainable & incompatible mutations possible. If you're using one vector then resistance mutation appears quickly enough. But if you're using combined therapy with two different drugs then it's very unlikely to get resistant strain as the result. It's the same for HIV, Hepatitis B viruses or almost any bacteria. And greater difference between the drugs results with greater effectiveness of combination. In case of bacteria it's effective to combine antibiotics which are attacking the different subsystems of cell. In case of viruses it's effective to use drugs interfering into a various stages of infection process (e.g. zidovudine prevents RNA transcription + RAL prevents integration + APV prevents RNA splicing).

NewLiberty, again, we're talking natural selection. Natural selection works in the same way for any combination of genes, no matter alive or not. However, in case of viral genome there is much higher chance of incompatible mutations.
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1002
Gresham's Lawyer
September 03, 2014, 10:49:00 AM
Tuberculosis is bacterial, not viral.  Virus is vastly simpler organism, with different resulting immunology.

I was just giving out an example. What about the Influenza virus (Orthomyxoviridae)? They mutate so often that the influenza vaccines need to be re-invented every one year or so. Even the Ebola virus itself mutates very frequently. I will disagree with you on the second part. Virus is by no means a simple organism. It is much difficult to study a virus, than doing the same on a bacteria.

Virus is a vastly more simple organism than bacteria.  
They have no metabolic function, maybe not "alive" depending on the definition of life.  So how to kill what may not be alive can be problematic.
What you mean by difficulty of your study though is a bit perplexing.  
Is your point, by way of example, that it may be difficult to study the number 4, just because it is not more complex?  Or just because it is smaller?
If there was a word to argue with, I'd have thought it would have been "organism" rather than "simple".
A virus doesn't have organs or even organelles really, hardly even an organism.
legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1217
September 03, 2014, 10:27:47 AM
Tuberculosis is bacterial, not viral.  Virus is vastly simpler organism, with different resulting immunology.

I was just giving out an example. What about the Influenza virus (Orthomyxoviridae)? They mutate so often that the influenza vaccines need to be re-invented every one year or so. Even the Ebola virus itself mutates very frequently. I will disagree with you on the second part. Virus is by no means a simple organism. It is much difficult to study a virus, than doing the same on a bacteria.
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1002
Gresham's Lawyer
September 03, 2014, 10:22:10 AM
In case of HIV, for example, combined treatment with 2 or 3 different drugs (Lamivudine, Zidovudine and Phosphazidum) is able to stop virtually any kind of resistance mutations. But if you will try to use one drug, then resistance for this drug will be developed in matter of months.

Remember what happened with Tuberculosis. Due to the rampant misuse of antibiotics, various drug resistant strains are now rife in many parts of the world, especially in Sub-Saharan Africa. First we had the Multi-drug-resistant tuberculosis (MDR TB). That progressed to Extensively drug-resistant tuberculosis (XDR TB). And now we are hearing about Totally drug-resistant tuberculosis (TDR TB). The same can happen with HIV, and other viral diseases such as Ebola. 

Tuberculosis is bacterial, not viral.  Virus is vastly simpler organism, with different resulting immunology.
legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1217
September 03, 2014, 10:15:57 AM
In case of HIV, for example, combined treatment with 2 or 3 different drugs (Lamivudine, Zidovudine and Phosphazidum) is able to stop virtually any kind of resistance mutations. But if you will try to use one drug, then resistance for this drug will be developed in matter of months.

Remember what happened with Tuberculosis. Due to the rampant misuse of antibiotics, various drug resistant strains are now rife in many parts of the world, especially in Sub-Saharan Africa. First we had the Multi-drug-resistant tuberculosis (MDR TB). That progressed to Extensively drug-resistant tuberculosis (XDR TB). And now we are hearing about Totally drug-resistant tuberculosis (TDR TB). The same can happen with HIV, and other viral diseases such as Ebola. 
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1002
Gresham's Lawyer
September 03, 2014, 10:11:42 AM
You are thinking maybe about antibiotics?
Natural selection works in the same way for virus, bacteria or mice Smiley
Perhaps, but treatments and immunology diverge for bacteria and virus.
This was referencing the point you made about the treatment being incomplete.
In case of HIV, for example, parallel treatment with 2 or 3 different drugs (Lamivudine, Zidovudine and Phosphazidum) is able to stop virtually any kind resistance mutations. But if you will try to use one drug, then resistance for this drug will be developed in matter of months.
There is no such treatment currently for ebola virus, so this is theoretical.  
The treatment is primarily for the resulting hemorrhagic fever and is fluid replacement, electrolytes sodium and potassium hygenic isolation and palliative care.
There is insufficient evidence to suggest that any of the antiviral treatments are either helpful or harmful to the infected.

There is much ado about providing these largely non-existing antivirals to all who ask.  They may simply hasten death, or create more resistant strains.  The two Americans basically became lab rats.  Such labs aren't in the places where this virus strikes.

Attempts to set them up have been met with some hostility including looting and threats including stealing infected bedding and material that was then distributed among the looters and sold.  Very tragic.

The amount of sterilization required to treat a single "human lab rat" is massive and disposing of the infected material is an exacting process.  To do this in the field is going to take infrastructure and education.  Its not a quick fix air drop type assistance..  There is deep distrust of foreign medicine incursion.

Quote
The Minister of the Ministry of Information, Cultural Affairs and Tourism (MICAT), Lewis G. Brown, has disclosed that four of the protesters, who recently broke into and ransacked the Ebola Quarantine Center in the West Point Township, have been tested positive of the Ebola virus.
The protesters, who said there was no Ebola in Liberia, stormed and ransacked the Ebola Quarantine Center and made away with bloodstained mattresses and bed sheets after chasing away patients who were quarantined there.

Two Japanese possibly infected, relocated to Moldova (near Ukraine):
http://en.itar-tass.com/world/747222
legendary
Activity: 3108
Merit: 1359
September 03, 2014, 09:42:03 AM
You are thinking maybe about antibiotics?
Natural selection works in the same way for virus, bacteria or mice Smiley

In case of HIV, for example, combined treatment with 2 or 3 different drugs (Lamivudine, Zidovudine and Phosphazidum) is able to stop virtually any kind of resistance mutations. But if you will try to use one drug, then resistance for this drug will be developed in matter of months.
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
September 03, 2014, 09:30:07 AM
Finally the WHO has broken its silence and has published information regarding the outbreak in Senegal.

http://www.who.int/csr/don/2014_08_30_ebola/en/

WHO is still claiming that there is only a single case there. But I have read newspaper reports and blogs claiming that there are many more. It will be a major setback if the latter is true.  Angry

I think WHO reports only the numbers that they have got from the respective ministries of each country. Therefore the numbers are not very reliable.
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1002
Gresham's Lawyer
September 03, 2014, 05:52:36 AM
It takes less than 10 virus to infect a person.
Only if there is no suitable antibodies. On the background of the ongoing infection there is no difference between 1 or 1000000 in terms of natural selection. Because virus is attacked by two vectors while probability of two lucky mutations is extremely low.

If a treatment kills 999,999 out of 1,000000 virus, the remaining one in a million may have survived do to better resistance to that treatment. 
One remaining will be destroyed by antibodies.

Resistant strains selection is usually possible only when treatment has been applied inappropriately. Too low doses or early end of treatment, for example.

You are thinking maybe about antibiotics?

Cross strain immunity ebola has not yet been established in the wild.  There have been attempts to create it in the lab for creating vaccines.
http://www.virologyj.com/content/9/1/32
It is one of the things the WHO hope to learn and have asked the cured Americans to continue as outpatients.

Of the 5 strains, very possibly they have a common ancestor.

Quote
Ebola survivors develop antibodies against the virus and they also develop cell-mediated immunity.
“In general, the finding is it’s basically like being immunised-it would be unusual to get infection with the same strain. We are still evaluating that in our two patients.
Cross-protection is not quite as robust. There are five strains of Ebola viruses. Even though that data is not great, the feeling is there is potential for being infected if you go to a different part of Africa and get exposed to a different strain.
Ribner said the two survivors would be followed as outpatients, and as part of evaluation. “They have agreed to undergo additional testing so we can better understand immunity to Ebola virus. We are meeting with them periodically.
legendary
Activity: 3108
Merit: 1359
September 03, 2014, 05:18:08 AM
It takes less than 10 virus to infect a person.
Only if there is no suitable antibodies. On the background of the ongoing infection there is no difference between 1 or 1000000 in terms of natural selection. Because virus is attacked by two vectors while probability of two lucky mutations is extremely low.

If a treatment kills 999,999 out of 1,000000 virus, the remaining one in a million may have survived do to better resistance to that treatment. 
One remaining will be destroyed by antibodies.

Resistant strains selection is usually possible only when treatment has been applied inappropriately. Too low doses or early end of treatment, for example.
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1002
Gresham's Lawyer
September 03, 2014, 04:54:39 AM
surviving. This means that as the strains of the virus change and mutate they will likely be immune to antibiotics. (your have sound logic, but it is just bad for society).

Actually they do not even need to mutate, antibiotics can not kill viruses.
The fact that there is not known cure to ebola is certainly not a good thing.

Viruses are generally not able to mutate so quickly that as soon as antibiotics/vaccines are developed and distributed they are able to "fight" the treatment immediately. This type of evolution takes time, usually something like this would occur over several years, to decades, not over the course of a few weeks/months.

Usually true.
The viral load created by an ebola infection is massive, it replicates very rapidly, many generations in the few week it takes to kill someone.
It takes less than 10 virus to infect a person.
If a treatment kills 999,999 out of 1,000000 virus, the remaining one in a million may have survived do to better resistance to that treatment. 
There are 5 known strains, all deadly to humans.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
September 02, 2014, 06:44:07 PM
surviving. This means that as the strains of the virus change and mutate they will likely be immune to antibiotics. (your have sound logic, but it is just bad for society).

Actually they do not even need to mutate, antibiotics can not kill viruses.
The fact that there is not known cure to ebola is certainly not a good thing.

Viruses are generally not able to mutate so quickly that as soon as antibiotics/vaccines are developed and distributed they are able to "fight" the treatment immediately. This type of evolution takes time, usually something like this would occur over several years, to decades, not over the course of a few weeks/months.
legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1217
September 02, 2014, 05:00:18 PM
Finally the WHO has broken its silence and has published information regarding the outbreak in Senegal.

http://www.who.int/csr/don/2014_08_30_ebola/en/

WHO is still claiming that there is only a single case there. But I have read newspaper reports and blogs claiming that there are many more. It will be a major setback if the latter is true.  Angry
legendary
Activity: 1267
Merit: 1000
September 02, 2014, 03:27:39 PM
Quote
Ebola is the killer of the medical profession.  Medical personnel are 1/10th the dead.
Worldwide there are about 13 doctors per 10000 people or about 1 for every 770 people.

The outbreak of Ebola virus disease in west Africa is unprecedented in many ways, including the high proportion of doctors, nurses, and other health care workers who have been infected.

To date, more than 240 health care workers have developed the disease in Guinea, Liberia, Nigeria, and Sierra Leone, and more than 120 have died.


WHO estimates that, in the three hardest-hit countries, only one to two doctors are available to treat 100,000 people, and these doctors are heavily concentrated in urban areas.

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/ebola/25-august-2014/en/
legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1217
September 02, 2014, 10:47:48 AM
there is no doubt that this shiit ebola crap is hyped.  Ban fucking cars.  It kills more ppl than gunz or ebola combined.  fuktards.

BS. Diabetes kills more people in the world when compared to Ebola. But that doesn't mean that it is more dangerous than Ebola. The problem here is that:

#1. Ebola can't be treated
#2. Ebola spreads very quickly
#3. There is no vaccine against Ebola
#4. There is a 50-90% mortality rate
#5. No one knows much about the disease, since it was discovered only a few decades ago.
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