So he does this mail fraud thing and gets away with paing 100$ fee to the court?
He defrauded ~25.000.000 USD and is not able to be sentenced to pay a fine higher than 100$
? Is the law there that stupid!?
If law is like that I'm heading to the is now ... Time to do some serious business: http://youtu.be/niaMCTPDNeo
Topic: [Archive] BFL trolling museum - page 18. (Read 69328 times)
The problem here is that Butterfly Labs is an established company here in the States...meaning they're abiding by all laws and regulations (presumably of course..given none of us work there we cannot say for 100% certain). The amount of negative press they would receive if they were to scam us would be phenomenal. An investigation (and probably lawsuit) would ensue, and anyone clearly associated with the scam would be tried and sentenced.
We all get our money back, and they all go to jail. Jeez, what was so hard about all that...
Chris Vleisides - Involved in the scam - 25 million $. Nobody get money back. Chris Vleisides did not go to jail.
United States laws and regulations
Quote
All fines are waived as it is found that the defendant does not have the ability to pay a fine.
Pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 3663A(c)(3), restitution is not ordered because (1) the number of identifiable victims is so large as to make restitution impracticable [3663A(c)(3)(A)]; and
(2) determining complex issues of fact related to the cause or amount of the victim's losses would complicate or prolong the sentencing process to a degree that the need to provide restitution to any victim is outweighed by the burden on the sentencing process [3663A(c)(3)(B)].
SPECIAL ASSESSMENT: It is further ordered defendant shall pay to the United States a special assessment fee of $100, which is due immediately to the Clerk of the Court.
Pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 3663A(c)(3), restitution is not ordered because (1) the number of identifiable victims is so large as to make restitution impracticable [3663A(c)(3)(A)]; and
(2) determining complex issues of fact related to the cause or amount of the victim's losses would complicate or prolong the sentencing process to a degree that the need to provide restitution to any victim is outweighed by the burden on the sentencing process [3663A(c)(3)(B)].
SPECIAL ASSESSMENT: It is further ordered defendant shall pay to the United States a special assessment fee of $100, which is due immediately to the Clerk of the Court.
We all get our money back, and they all go to jail. Jeez, what was so hard about all that...
Victims get their money back and crooks go to jail? Where is this again? Can't be the US cuz they had Enron, Solyndra, S&L, LTCM, MF Global, etc...
Those victims weren't made whole, the lawyers did well as I understand it. Keeting got a few consecutive 99 year sentences, but ruined the lives of thousands of seniors. Perhaps we should ask Vleisides' lottery scam victims if they got their money back?
Victims get Corzined and those with slick lawyers/connections rarely see the inside of jail cells, they get slaps on the wrist and told to behave. You go to jail for blue collar crimes in the States, white collar criminals generally walk.
Again, can anyone name three BFL engineers?
Somewhat relevant attempt: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/lets-count-to-22-118863
Somewhat relevant attempt: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/lets-count-to-22-118863
People seem to consistently forget that in order to pull off a scam of this magnitude, they'd need to support of all participating members...managers, execs, designers, engineers, etc.
This.
If the engineers aren't in on it, then they would have done everything they can to produce working ASICs. If they can produce working ASICs, why would they (BFL higher ups) bother with a scam?
If the engineers are in on it, their professional career is dead, so the scam would need to support them for the rest of their life. I somehow don't think they have enough in pre orders for that.
[...]
Madoff had 400+ professionals working away thinking & doing what they do..stop & think that this can not be applied to BFL because an engineer did some work....yeah
I find it a bit odd that you're comparing a financial company to a technical one. Not to mention out of both these companies, only one of them is selling a product...
Anyway..
Am I one of a handful of people that actually understand long term consequences of such an action by BFL? I keep reading it over and over and over again throughout this thread.."oh BFL is creating an elaborate scam, they haven't created a product and they're just trolling for money".
The problem here is that Butterfly Labs is an established company here in the States...meaning they're abiding by all laws and regulations (presumably of course..given none of us work there we cannot say for 100% certain). The amount of negative press they would receive if they were to scam us would be phenomenal. An investigation (and probably lawsuit) would ensue, and anyone clearly associated with the scam would be tried and sentenced.
We all get our money back, and they all go to jail. Jeez, what was so hard about all that...
FYI: I just attempted to create ASICs
I failed.
Quite a few months ago, I started down the path of creating a custom ASIC with another member of this forum. We spoke with a number of companies that do structured ASIC designs but ultimately decided to go with a full custom ASIC design since it seemed like it would required to be competitive with the numbers being promised by the competition. Ultimately, we entered into discussions with a company in Shanghai that does ASIC design with the intent of having them do the entire ASIC design for us. Like BFL, we already had a working HDL design that we had verified on FPGA hardware. Ultimately we chose not to move forward with the venture for business reasons, but it looks like BFL is on a similar path to what we were on.
Based on what I've been reading, it seems that BFL does not have in-house ASIC engineering experience (neither did we), but rather they have opted to farm out their design to a company experienced in these matters (a very positive thing IMO). Silicon Valley probably has the highest concentration of ASIC design houses in the US, so it is encouraging to read that Josh is going there next week to meet with their ASIC design team. Using an experienced ASIC design team in combination with a straightforward logic-only design like SHA256 and a conservative 65nm process is a good formula for minimizing risk and the number of respins.
I'm out of the mining business at the moment, but if I wanted to get back in now, I'd probably choose BFL based on the information currently available.
I have no affiliation with BFL or any of it's employees.
--
Jason
Based on what I've been reading, it seems that BFL does not have in-house ASIC engineering experience (neither did we), but rather they have opted to farm out their design to a company experienced in these matters (a very positive thing IMO). Silicon Valley probably has the highest concentration of ASIC design houses in the US, so it is encouraging to read that Josh is going there next week to meet with their ASIC design team. Using an experienced ASIC design team in combination with a straightforward logic-only design like SHA256 and a conservative 65nm process is a good formula for minimizing risk and the number of respins.
I'm out of the mining business at the moment, but if I wanted to get back in now, I'd probably choose BFL based on the information currently available.
I have no affiliation with BFL or any of it's employees.
--
Jason
Agreed.
What a great and positive response sir. Your grasp of the English language is both elegant and substantial!
I aim to please BFL
Quite a few months ago, I started down the path of creating a custom ASIC with another member of this forum. We spoke with a number of companies that do structured ASIC designs but ultimately decided to go with a full custom ASIC design since it seemed like it would required to be competitive with the numbers being promised by the competition. Ultimately, we entered into discussions with a company in Shanghai that does ASIC design with the intent of having them do the entire ASIC design for us. Like BFL, we already had a working HDL design that we had verified on FPGA hardware. Ultimately we chose not to move forward with the venture for business reasons, but it looks like BFL is on a similar path to what we were on.
Based on what I've been reading, it seems that BFL does not have in-house ASIC engineering experience (neither did we), but rather they have opted to farm out their design to a company experienced in these matters (a very positive thing IMO). Silicon Valley probably has the highest concentration of ASIC design houses in the US, so it is encouraging to read that Josh is going there next week to meet with their ASIC design team. Using an experienced ASIC design team in combination with a straightforward logic-only design like SHA256 and a conservative 65nm process is a good formula for minimizing risk and the number of respins.
I'm out of the mining business at the moment, but if I wanted to get back in now, I'd probably choose BFL based on the information currently available.
I have no affiliation with BFL or any of it's employees.
--
Jason
Based on what I've been reading, it seems that BFL does not have in-house ASIC engineering experience (neither did we), but rather they have opted to farm out their design to a company experienced in these matters (a very positive thing IMO). Silicon Valley probably has the highest concentration of ASIC design houses in the US, so it is encouraging to read that Josh is going there next week to meet with their ASIC design team. Using an experienced ASIC design team in combination with a straightforward logic-only design like SHA256 and a conservative 65nm process is a good formula for minimizing risk and the number of respins.
I'm out of the mining business at the moment, but if I wanted to get back in now, I'd probably choose BFL based on the information currently available.
I have no affiliation with BFL or any of it's employees.
--
Jason
Agreed.
What a great and positive response sir. Your grasp of the English language is both elegant and substantial!
Quite a few months ago, I started down the path of creating a custom ASIC with another member of this forum. We spoke with a number of companies that do structured ASIC designs but ultimately decided to go with a full custom ASIC design since it seemed like it would required to be competitive with the numbers being promised by the competition. Ultimately, we entered into discussions with a company in Shanghai that does ASIC design with the intent of having them do the entire ASIC design for us. Like BFL, we already had a working HDL design that we had verified on FPGA hardware. Ultimately we chose not to move forward with the venture for business reasons, but it looks like BFL is on a similar path to what we were on.
Based on what I've been reading, it seems that BFL does not have in-house ASIC engineering experience (neither did we), but rather they have opted to farm out their design to a company experienced in these matters (a very positive thing IMO). Silicon Valley probably has the highest concentration of ASIC design houses in the US, so it is encouraging to read that Josh is going there next week to meet with their ASIC design team. Using an experienced ASIC design team in combination with a straightforward logic-only design like SHA256 and a conservative 65nm process is a good formula for minimizing risk and the number of respins.
I'm out of the mining business at the moment, but if I wanted to get back in now, I'd probably choose BFL based on the information currently available.
I have no affiliation with BFL or any of it's employees.
--
Jason
Based on what I've been reading, it seems that BFL does not have in-house ASIC engineering experience (neither did we), but rather they have opted to farm out their design to a company experienced in these matters (a very positive thing IMO). Silicon Valley probably has the highest concentration of ASIC design houses in the US, so it is encouraging to read that Josh is going there next week to meet with their ASIC design team. Using an experienced ASIC design team in combination with a straightforward logic-only design like SHA256 and a conservative 65nm process is a good formula for minimizing risk and the number of respins.
I'm out of the mining business at the moment, but if I wanted to get back in now, I'd probably choose BFL based on the information currently available.
I have no affiliation with BFL or any of it's employees.
--
Jason
Agreed.
I would suggest you do better, if you really think that post deserves another response than mine give it a try. 
Okay.
2. How do I pocket the BTC if I get a refund of the same amount in BTC what I've originally paid?
You're a bit special aren't you?
That's speculation and done in other markets as well.... Stop whining ...
I would suggest you do better, if you really think that post deserves another response than mine give it a try.
What a clever and witty retort sir! Your grasp of the English language is elegant and substantial!
Well, at least it was straight to the point...
Quite a few months ago, I started down the path of creating a custom ASIC with another member of this forum. We spoke with a number of companies that do structured ASIC designs but ultimately decided to go with a full custom ASIC design since it seemed like it would required to be competitive with the numbers being promised by the competition. Ultimately, we entered into discussions with a company in Shanghai that does ASIC design with the intent of having them do the entire ASIC design for us. Like BFL, we already had a working HDL design that we had verified on FPGA hardware. Ultimately we chose not to move forward with the venture for business reasons, but it looks like BFL is on a similar path to what we were on.
Based on what I've been reading, it seems that BFL does not have in-house ASIC engineering experience (neither did we), but rather they have opted to farm out their design to a company experienced in these matters (a very positive thing IMO). Silicon Valley probably has the highest concentration of ASIC design houses in the US, so it is encouraging to read that Josh is going there next week to meet with their ASIC design team. Using an experienced ASIC design team in combination with a straightforward logic-only design like SHA256 and a conservative 65nm process is a good formula for minimizing risk and the number of respins.
I'm out of the mining business at the moment, but if I wanted to get back in now, I'd probably choose BFL based on the information currently available.
I have no affiliation with BFL or any of it's employees.
--
Jason
Based on what I've been reading, it seems that BFL does not have in-house ASIC engineering experience (neither did we), but rather they have opted to farm out their design to a company experienced in these matters (a very positive thing IMO). Silicon Valley probably has the highest concentration of ASIC design houses in the US, so it is encouraging to read that Josh is going there next week to meet with their ASIC design team. Using an experienced ASIC design team in combination with a straightforward logic-only design like SHA256 and a conservative 65nm process is a good formula for minimizing risk and the number of respins.
I'm out of the mining business at the moment, but if I wanted to get back in now, I'd probably choose BFL based on the information currently available.
I have no affiliation with BFL or any of it's employees.
--
Jason
You are full of shit Jason.
What a clever and witty retort sir! Your grasp of the English language is elegant and substantial!
Have you videotaped your discussion with a lawyer yet?
I've done many things. Take a pack of popcorn and take a seat. Be patient!The tension is worse than waiting for a BFL "produced" ASIC.
Have you videotaped your discussion with a lawyer yet?
I've done many things. Take a pack of popcorn and take a seat. Be patient!
Have you videotaped your discussion with a lawyer yet?
Anyone who invests money they can't afford to lose, should just put it in a savings account.
But why BFL keep saying you are not investor, you're just a customer? Since when customers losing their money is okay? Did FTC say that? Where? 
In the bitcoin world, trust is often simply given, not earned.
Hehe... What a scam paradyse... 
...
Another person mentioned because of the bASIC SCAM they really needed to settle the market
Hey presto one detailed long explanation..
Would they gone to this great length without bASIC meltdown hmmm..maybe maybe not
Everything is about managing confidence whether they are real or not...ok i believe they are trying to do what they say
but from a technical standpoint what they have put out to the public so far is a load of malarky....so i am calling schnannygins
If there is more in the background there is absolutely no reason (all the business secrets is balony) why not to release more...it stands from a PR perspective to go gang busters with graphs, pictures, test results (within reason)...and here is our working proto ...how many pre sales would they have if all of this was in place ...take x * 300%
Trust is earned not given
Hey if they come through i will re-instate my order i cancelled 3 days ago
In the bitcoin world, trust is often simply given, not earned. I'm not completely sure why.Another person mentioned because of the bASIC SCAM they really needed to settle the market
Hey presto one detailed long explanation..
Would they gone to this great length without bASIC meltdown hmmm..maybe maybe not
Everything is about managing confidence whether they are real or not...ok i believe they are trying to do what they say
but from a technical standpoint what they have put out to the public so far is a load of malarky....so i am calling schnannygins
If there is more in the background there is absolutely no reason (all the business secrets is balony) why not to release more...it stands from a PR perspective to go gang busters with graphs, pictures, test results (within reason)...and here is our working proto ...how many pre sales would they have if all of this was in place ...take x * 300%
Trust is earned not given
Hey if they come through i will re-instate my order i cancelled 3 days ago
But obviously, hoping to be first with the devices, to hash at low difficulty, probably plays a big part in it.
My issues with BFL back when they made the FPGA Single, were it failed on Power, Performance and Delivery.
Delivery was, however, the biggest issue IMO due to the probable reasons.
Again this time they have failed on Delivery (who know about Power and Performance - we'll find out when it is released)
As I suspected with the BFL FPGA, I will also suspect with the BFL ASIC, I suspect it will be released eventually.
I'll certainly be surprised if it did turn out to be a scam in the general sense of the word.
When will they Deliver? I've still no idea. I have no firm date going to the USA or a plane ticket supplied by BFL yet.
Once I have those 2 things I'll be pretty sure of the Delivery date also.
However, again, with all 3 remaining companies, there certainly seems to be things that each could be showing, that they still haven't
(I don't bother to include Deepbit coz I've no idea what they are doing)
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