Topic: [Archive] BFL trolling museum - page 19. (Read 69394 times)

I see this as one of my investments.  If it pans out, it'll pay off.  If it doesn't, I'll move on to my next venture.

Anyone who invests money they can't afford to lose, should just put it in a savings account.

+1

There is definitely that smell in the air

After Ship latest January in late November..I am out to watch as a rational human I wont accept any more rubbish

It does remind me of the Nigerian money scams where the people are so indebited (i.e already sent 1000's) that they have to believe its real otherwise there whole world crashes down that they keep sending more money as a reaffirmation that it is real..

I.E the more i send the more reasons to believe it is real..

Good Luck with that...lol

Agreed

Another person mentioned because of the bASIC SCAM they really needed to settle the market

Hey presto one detailed long explanation..

Would they gone to this great length without bASIC meltdown hmmm..maybe maybe not

Everything is about managing confidence whether they are real or not...ok i believe they are trying to do what they say

but from a technical standpoint what they have put out to the public so far is a load of malarky....so i am calling schnannygins

If there is more in the background there is absolutely no reason (all the business secrets is balony) why not to release more...it stands from a PR perspective to go gang busters with graphs, pictures, test results (within reason)...and here is our working proto ...how many pre sales would they have if all of this was in place ...take x * 300%

Trust is earned not given

Hey if they come through i will re-instate my order i cancelled 3 days ago

I would imagine that any company that ships (and has well-known forum members posting that the device works) is going to get orders no matter how long it took them to get to that stage. Well, assuming the product is still competitive.

Lets imagine a couple of lame-ass delays how dog ate their homework and then in march when they finally have a board that can be tested find out that is does not and they do need to delay things to may for a second attempt with no guarantee it is not going to be july with the 3rd. Do they get a fresh wave of orders? I dunno. The preorder customers seem to be so silly bunch of people that absolutely nothing is going to surprise me anymore.

Well, there are reasons to believe that this already happened...they're still better off financially if they delay again, because they can expect a fresh wave of orders when people eventually see that the devices actually work.

I see a lot of people trying to convince themselves that things are legit by inventing ONE scenario of possible scam or ONE typical sign of a scam and because this is not like the ONE then it must be legit. And of course there are only two extreme cases a 100% legit or 100% scam. nothing inbetween.

The company structure is pretty suitable for a scam. A family business, where several members of one family is in it together. It is pretty logical to think that they all think pretty much alike. And then in addition take one or two non-family people in it. It is also pretty easy to vet these couple of people so that they are longtime friends so that you know they are on the same page how things are going to unfold. There is absolutely no reason to let every employee know about the script the company ends up doing in the end.

It is also quite possible that things can be run as a semi-scam and I would think this is quite common way of thinking in thousands of small business startups. The thinking goes, lets try it for a while, it either succeeds in which case I and everybody else ends up happy, or the other alternative is that there are insurmountable problems found during the operation in which case the company needs to fold, but I will still take care of myself generously.

I believe this is not that far off in here. There are three major possibilities.
A) Everything works out okay, we ship devices and everybody is happy.
B) The first prototype ASIC turns up not working, the businesscase for the respin does not look good, so lets bleed the company dry of any money and fold it and everything looks like a legal try that ended up pearshaped with the few of us making millions.
C) If there are too much refunds to cause problems too early, then we can fold the company in midway, but since this might end up looking messy, then lets try to avoid this and go for plan B if at all possible.

For the record I have the belief that there is an ASIC in the pipeline at BFL.
What happens if there is a problem found from the first iteration of the ASIC is anybodys guess. Maybe only people who carry the name Vleisides and a select few of others know that at this moment. I don't belive Josh is in on the secret of that.

Something like that, yes.  I have never, anywhere, claimed to consider BFL a scam; since September last year, however, I have on several occasions done service to the community by pointing out that BFL seem to be a bunch of mostly incompetent and dishonest folks - at least those with public presence (Josh, Sonny, and "chips were not flawed" Nasser).

Who are these employees? I know a lot of people get accused of working for them, haha, but I am yet to see many people actually come out and say they are working for them. As I already said, there are only 3 on LinkedIn.

If they actually are employing 25 people who have solid careers behind them, then yeah, it is a good point. However at this point (as far as I know) all we have is their word that they have 25 employees. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Well, if it is a scam, that's exactly what they want you to think...

I just can't understand why BFL would still be around (along with all it's 25 paid employees) if they were scammers.  What would they be trying to accomplish right now?  They are losing money that they could have run with every day, both through issuance of refunds and through payment of rent/employees/etc, and Josh in particular is spending a great deal of time creating elaborate stories and specific details that they couldn't release earlier not.  If they were scammers, why didn't they make up these stories much earlier on?  Why not give out these details from day one?  Or at the very least, months ago?  I just see so many things that point to them not being scammers, I really can't see it as a serious possibility.

He's probably thinking that if BFL are running a scam then they don't need to hire engineers with reputations that aren't worth losing for a big scam, or even any engineers at all.

If you could name three BFL engineers with reputations so solid that they would have a financial disincentive to take a share in a big scam rather than continue lucrative careers then it would definitely give them a lot more legitimacy.

The only employees I am aware of are the convicted fraudster CEO and Josh, who is so extremely unprofessional it is beyond belief.

Three people on LinkedIn have Butterfly Labs on their profiles. None of them are engineers.

I am in s/w not h/w but i agree a 5 step process with multiple iterations

This has not occured...the RISK factor is high

If this is the process that they have followed & it works I will take my hat off to them because I could not achieve this result as it is really a roll of the device  (if this is the process that they have followed)

http://www.edaboard.com/thread129919.html

What none of these ASIC vendors seem eager to point out to us is that the process of making an ASIC is not just a linear set of steps, but has conditional branching statements.  Something like:

1: Design
2: Simulate
3: Produce a prototype on MPW, get it wirebound and packaged, then delivered.
4: Test the prototype.  If testing fails, go to step 1.
5: Full wafer production, etc, more steps.

The hard part is getting past step 4.

That's probably wrong.

If the chips they received (prototype or otherwise) had clocking issues, then they never would have been able to run them at anything remotely close to full speed (ie. max heat). Simulation is not only done in "phase 1".

Agreed. If there is to be a problem, that would be the most serious.

I was largely testing the other poster


That may very well be true, and I hope for their sake that they learned everything they could from those chips if that's the case.

There's a couple people on this board that have a unhealthy obsession with religion.

Usually Catholicism... but I digress.

Someone said they can't imagine dissapating 60w of heat cause their 300w video card can do it.

Imagine 60w of heat pumping into the PCB, not out through cooler. That's the problem with QFN packages as opposed to BGA packages.

Also, the chip is flipped upside down, so the chip part is close to the Cooler.

It's quite logical. They've shown no demo, therefore they've never build a prototype. Since there was no prototype, they never had actual chips. Their latest update is all about how the simulations in December showed barely acceptable limits. Hence, they're still at phase-1, "Simulate". The odds of them shipping final products "Week of February 10th" is virtually nil.