Topic: [Archive] BFL trolling museum - page 89. (Read 69394 times)

The ASICs don't even exist yet. And you guys are worrying about the lifetime warranty existing? 

So unless the lifetime warranty is written and documented, it doesn't legally exist.

Lifetime Warranty Laws

According to the Federal Trade Commission (FTC), a warranty is an agreement between a producer or a seller that he or she will replace or repair a product if the product becomes damaged after it is sold to an end consumer. Warranties may be either implied or expressed (written). Lifetime warranties are expressed in oral form or in written form. Oral lifetime warranties are hard to prove in a court of law, but written lifetime warranties are covered in the United States under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975.


Definition of a Lifetime Warranty
Definition of a Limited Lifetime Warranty


Requirements:

If a product includes a warranty, the Magunson-Moss Act requires companies to list this warranty as either full or limited. A limited warranty may only cover certain types of damage, while a full warranty covers any product defects. Warrantors must also list the duration of the warranty in an easy-to-read pamphlet, which is either included in the product packaging or handed to the customer at the point of purchase. Customers must be able to read a warranty on a product box, so that they know the conditions of the warranty before buying the product. Businesses should craft warranties that are clear and easy to understand. This law was designed exclusively to protect end-use consumers. Retailers, who receive damaged products from a manufacturer, cannot take advantage of warranties.


Compensation:

The Magunson-Moss Act provides alternatives for companies to avoid consumer lawsuits when fulfilling their obligations under a lifetime guarantee. Companies are required to staff and fund departments with the responsibility of compensating product owners for damaged or malfunctioning products. These services should be free for consumers. All parts of the written warranty must be followed. If a company replaces a product under a lifetime warranty, the consumer may still take his or her dispute to court, when he or she is not satisfied with the resolution of the warranty. Companies that provide warranties must keep records of all customer disputes and are subject to an audit by the Federal Trade Commission once a year.


Lawsuits:

If a company offers a lifetime warranty on products and the company does not live up to its obligations, the Magunson-Moss Act makes it easier for customers to sue the company for a breach of warranty. Customers may also recoup their court costs and legal fees if they win a lawsuit. These lawsuits are usually brought forward in state courts, but large class action lawsuits may be brought up in federal court. The FTC Bureau of Consumer Protection will prosecute companies that use deceptive sales literature in order to imply a warranty where none exists. A warrantor who has labeled a product with a warranty, but has no intention or mechanisms for handling damaged products, is breaking the law.

Related Searches
References

Federal Trade Commission: A Businessperson's Guide to Federal Warranty Law
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/adv/bus01.shtm

Not in this case.  I asked Josh about it, and he said it was a true lifetime warranty, not just a warranty for the lifetime of the product.

need to ask BFL how it is in fact. What if the company loses all the money on research or other investments? In my country, there are several types of companies and different responsibilities bankruptcy. I do not know how it is in the U.S.

No, lifetime of the unit: until it breaks.

Aren't things like warranties put into the bankruptcy terms?

Or until the company's bankruptcy 

"Lifetime warranty" means product life (how long it is produced) + 1year

True but, BFL reps have intermittently suggested that since the little single is a newer product that all the orders for previously existing products would be processed first. Frankly their 1/3 cubed first batch shipment plan is confusing enough without the added complexity of a newer product.

Lifetime warranty? Cool. I plan on living forever though...

Pre-orders upgraded from a Jalapeno to Little Single don't change order #'s or lose their existing place in line. You're place should be unchanged regardless of whether you choose to upgrade or not.

Maybe it would seem better since there is a hashing shortfall if the price was adjusted instead as that would alway be in line.
So 149 * 4.5 /5.25 = $127.71

I really don't think they will go for it but it would at least get the 50% bump by hash or by cost so at least it would stay in line.
I guess I can dream. I can see why people seem to have converted orders left and right. I wonder if my place is moving closer and its in my interest to stay or if I am definately later by date not by product. At any rate I don't dislike the product, or the company just wish the specs didn't get out of line on an upgrade in performance. They do not actually, I am fairly sure, owe me more then they specified when I paid. Sure the extra 50% would be nice.

Jalapenos aren't really competitive any more in the $/gh race which is unfortunate and why I ended upgrading to a little sc.

@Sharky
What did I do that upset you? I pointed out that the EMAIL told me IN WRITING that I would be getting 50% more hashes I am in fact getting less then 30% more hashes. I suppose it is wrong to fact check the news letter before sending it out. Maybe it sounds silly but when somone says 50% more I would expect and additional unit per two units in the initial specificaton. Not one for every 3 or less. Possibly this is bothersome. But it is an inconsistency.

@freeAgent
True but I dislike the noise and if my current single gives me an idea of what may need done to get a functioning unit I would rather have 8 so one can be warrantied at a time then 1 that won't get me enough money to be worth the turn around time. Yes mine works but without a thermal redesign I could only run 2 bitstreams as shipped to me prior to the official releases. the 816 and the 808. <=800 always ran stupid short work units and many GH/s but no found shares, 832 had a bad power listed on easy miner and crashed immediately and everything above 832 with a 68 degree F intake temp throttled excessivly. Granted 864 put down better numbers then 816. I couldn't get 824(not public release) to work and 848 worked but reworking it thermally got 864 running with low throttles.

The jalapeno pack was 70% of the speed of the single initially. I was willing to take that haircut for multiple units, no single point of failure and less noise.
The improved jalapeno pack is 60% ofthe speed.

Another way to put it.
Jalapenos initially where 0.023489932885906 GH/s per dollar.
SC single was initially 0.0307929176289453 GH/s per dollar.
Upgrade Jalapeno is 0.0302013422818792 GH/s per dollar.
SC single upgrade is 0.046189376443418 GH/s per dollar.

EDIT: 832 above should have been 816. Never was able to get 832 running. It isn't like I dislike BFL. I have soo far actually been fairly pleased with their products. That having been stated I would say that my unit was less then spectactular for a 3 fan Rev. 3. Now it is far quieter and only occasionally throttles running 864 with warmer summer temps.

Edit 2: After rethinking my point, I wonder if heat is a limiting factor not power. The only (edit) passivly (edit) aircooled unit got less of a bump. Possibly it is related. The issue to me still is not that the 4.5 is a good enough number but that the % listed was wrong. Yes on 66 2/3% it is correct but if memory serves that will net you a D in most educational situations.

I don't know if this has already been posted in here in the forums but apparently BFL is planning on upping the ante to lifetime warranty on their products. Here it is...
http://bitcoinmagazine.net/butterfly-labs-offers-lifetime-warranty-asic-competition-surges-on/

That's not even mentioning the fact that Singles have a better Gh/$ ratio.

I'm really starting to dislike Bitcointalk because of people like you.

Jalepenos could not be doubled because of the USB buss power limitation. This was already stated by BFL.

Why don't you just convert your 8 pack into an "SC Single", or two "Little Singles"? Bfl has stated that you can upgrade with no change of your place in line.

Email specs says 50% increase in hashes. at these nunbers
1) 4.5GH/s
2) 60GH/S
3) 1.5TH/S

MATH is tricky.
4.5/3.5 = 1.285714285714286 (Or 128.5....% of specs listed on Topic initially and order page. Looks less then 50% increase.)
60/40 = 1.5 (woo hoo an actual 50% increase in performance.....)
1.5/1 1.5 (wow This one oddly has 50% more performance too.)

Other math.
3.5*1.5=5.25
Extrapolating I ordered the 8 pack upgrade.
Initial Specifications:   28GH/s
Release Specification:  36GH/s
50% increase Spec:     42GH/s
Amount I am short 42-36=6GH/s
1.33repeating Jalapenos. Lets use some fuzzy BFL math on that and call it 2. Any chance you will ship me a 10 pack and actually give me the % increase stated?

How do you know?

Only a single competitor that I know of has released power specs, and they report their efficiency to be less than 25% of that of BFL's chips (4.2 J/GH vs 1 J/GH): https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1211518