[Aug 2022] Mempool empty! Use this opportunity to Consolidate your small inputs! - page 14.

NeuroticFish

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I guess I was wrong. The spam from the ordinals/runes garbage is way bigger than I've expected (I thought others eg miners are also heavily involved).
I didn't know the numbers and I've read this thing today:

Quote from: https://twitter.com/achow101/status/1781705975684055303

As of block 840081, since the halving, there have been 420,570 non-coinbase txs. Of these, 360,065 (85.6%) are runes only, 1,832 (0.44%) are inscription reveals only, 1,625 (0.39%) are both, and 57,048 (13.6%) are neither.

Quote from: https://twitter.com/achow101/status/1781705977013600667

Note that neither may still include inscriptions that have not been revealed yet. Such txs are indistinguishable from any other taproot transaction.

Quote from: https://twitter.com/achow101/status/1781705978309677490

Runes only txs have paid 764.27 BTC in fees, inscription reveals 4.163 BTC, txs doing both 44.25 BTC, and txs doing neither 187.07 BTC.

BlackHatCoiner

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 7340

Farewell, Leo

Here are some important reminders for the lot of us: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/--5493652.

Quote from: Poker Player on April 21, 2024, 02:24:29 AM

But do you think this madness is sustainable over time? Those who overpay for putting images of bananas in the blockhain can do it for two reasons, for the revenge of not having increased the size of the blocks or because you hope that someone more retarded than you will pay you much more money in the future for the bananas (or both).

There is no revenge, and even if there was any, it is simply not worth the money. It is just greater fool's theory 101. People risk millions of dollars for more in return. Not idealistic reasons, not BS. Just human greed.

Quote from: Synchronice on April 21, 2024, 04:02:22 AM

Why does someone care about whether their ordinals transaction will be N1 in 840000's block or not?

Why do people throw coins in fountains and make wishes? Why do they send coins to Satoshi's address? Why do they pay outrageous amounts of money for baseball cards? Because it's not reasoning that drives the market. It's emotions.

Synchronice

hero member

Activity: 882

Merit: 792

Watch Bitcoin Documentary - https://t.ly/v0Nim

Quote from: Cricktor on April 20, 2024, 10:35:06 AM

Interesting conclusion of yours. So you're adding your own poop to the pile of shit whatever name tag it has (Ordinals, Runes, ...)?
You instantly lost my respect, welcome to my evil list... Roll Eyes

C'mon man, don't be so fast, don't be so rough. I can't draw stupid paintings and I don't have any dumb JPEG images in my computer, so, you know, it was a joke, don't worry, I am too anti-ordinals to do that.

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on April 20, 2024, 08:59:17 AM

Quote from: stompix on April 20, 2024, 08:08:26 AM

So, this was the record for the day?

Nope. The record of the day is easily this: https://mempool.space/tx/2bb85f4b004be6da54f766c17c1e855187327112c231ef2ff35ebad0ea67c69e. 3.6 million satoshis per vbyte. This person paid more than 6.732 bitcoin in transaction fee. It's the top transaction of the halving block. I guess you can call it the rarest Ordinal, or whatever they're called. Tongue

I'm curious as to who will give more than $400,000 (!!!) for an Ordinal.

Why does someone care about whether their ordinals transaction will be N1 in 840000's block or not? Yes, it's a halving block and has a gold color on mempool.space but does it really matter? Does it bring any value?
By the way, I don't understand the point of this transaction: https://mempool.space/tx/152b928e97bb9e874da1bd4abdf766ae0cdc7a2f260dad5542967cb414c58489
He or she sent 0.00001100 BTC but paid 7.99 BTC as transaction fee. I mean, why? Are ordinals worth much if they pay high transaction fees? Does TX fee value increases their value? Or why are they so crazy to pay so much in fees when there is absolutely no need of that and they can include their transaction with paying way less.

LoyceV

legendary

Activity: 3290

Merit: 16489

Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021

Quote from: un_rank on April 21, 2024, 03:10:13 AM

Quote from: LoyceV on April 21, 2024, 02:30:24 AM

...while real Bitcoin doesn't get ads.

And does not need it. This HYIP feeds of hype, like a hit and grab.

It also feeds on Bitcoin's name. That's the problem.

un_rank

hero member

Activity: 644

Merit: 661

- Jay -

Quote from: LoyceV on April 21, 2024, 02:30:24 AM

...while real Bitcoin doesn't get ads.

And does not need it. This HYIP feeds of hype, like a hit and grab. They make it look all very attractive to investors, easy money, real use case of bitcoin or any other bs they are selling. People catch on after a while and they lose the market.

Bitcoin has survived this far and thrived this much without ads. The real ones find their way around.

- Jay -

Pmalek

legendary

Activity: 2730

Merit: 7065

Quote from: Poker Player on April 21, 2024, 02:24:29 AM

But do you think this madness is sustainable over time?

Not in this quantity. Only time will tell. The Ordinals attack has been going on for 1.5 years already. People have gotten tired of it, and now we have something else those good-for-nothings are throwing their money on which is obviously attracting the wrong type of people to Bitcoin.

Quote from: Poker Player on April 21, 2024, 02:24:29 AM

Those who overpay for putting images of bananas in the blockhain can do it for two reasons, for the revenge of not having increased the size of the blocks or because you hope that someone more retarded than you will pay you much more money in the future for the bananas (or both).

It's both.

Quote from: LoyceV on April 21, 2024, 02:30:24 AM

What truely amazes me is that people are willing to pay the spammers for this. It must be profitable, which means the tens of millions of dollars they pay per day are paid by their victims. Who are those people who'd rather "invest" in a made-up story about unique satoshis than just buy real Bitcoin?

You know the saying: "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups". I think it was George Carlin who said that.

LoyceV

legendary

Activity: 3290

Merit: 16489

Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021

Quote from: Pmalek on April 21, 2024, 02:02:26 AM

I don't consider having to pay 150 sat/vByte to move my coins a normal operation just because someone out there is posting bananas and is willing to overpay for it.

What truely amazes me is that people are willing to pay the spammers for this. It must be profitable, which means the tens of millions of dollars they pay per day are paid by their victims. Who are those people who'd rather "invest" in a made-up story about unique satoshis than just buy real Bitcoin?
The reason must be marketing. Spammers who spend and earn millions have a huge budget to advertise their BS, while real Bitcoin doesn't get ads.

apogio

hero member

Activity: 560

Merit: 1060

Quote from: stompix on April 20, 2024, 09:26:31 AM

Loll, I didn't realize there is an extra, I thought it was 3,600 not 3,600,000.

Just for fun, if anyone wants to see the "records" in fees (I don't know why, but I was curious to see it), you can run bitcoin-cli getblockstats .

For instance, for the halving block (840,000):

Code:

>> bitcoin-cli getblockstats 840000
{
  "avgfee": 1234031,
  "avgfeerate": 3770,
  "avgtxsize": 762,
  "blockhash": "0000000000000000000320283a032748cef8227873ff4872689bf23f1cda83a5",
  "feerate_percentiles": [
   108,
   134,
   200,
   350,
   1063
  ],
  "height": 840000,
  "ins": 3764,
  "maxfee": 799987800,
  "maxfeerate": 3604819,
  "maxtxsize": 166989,
  "medianfee": 34800,
  "mediantime": 1713570208,
  "mediantxsize": 266,
  "minfee": 2060,
  "minfeerate": 15,
  "mintxsize": 150,
  "outs": 9716,
  "subsidy": 312500000,
  "swtotal_size": 2318332,
  "swtotal_weight": 3964249,
  "swtxs": 3023,
  "time": 1713571767,
  "total_out": 135995397232,
  "total_size": 2325218,
  "total_weight": 3991793,
  "totalfee": 3762561499,
  "txs": 3050,
  "utxo_increase": 5952,
  "utxo_size_inc": 450713,
  "utxo_increase_actual": 3919,
  "utxo_size_inc_actual": 308963
}

The "maxfeerate": 3604819 indicates the fee record on this block which was 3604819 just like BlackHatCoiner mentioned above in the discussion.

Poker Player

legendary

Activity: 1372

Merit: 2017

Quote from: Pmalek on April 21, 2024, 02:02:26 AM

... I don't consider having to pay 150 sat/vByte to move my coins a normal operation just because someone out there is posting bananas and is willing to overpay for it.

But do you think this madness is sustainable over time? Those who overpay for putting images of bananas in the blockhain can do it for two reasons, for the revenge of not having increased the size of the blocks or because you hope that someone more retarded than you will pay you much more money in the future for the bananas (or both).

Few people are going to make money with this, rather their banana images will tend to be worth 0 and those who put images in the blockchain for that reason will stop doing it. The question is when, because they have been doing it for a while now. And if someone is doing it as revenge they can already be a billionaire because it can get very expensive. If you have a more modest net worth, not billions, at some point you will have to stop.

Another thing is that regardless of this, bitcoin is not going to be a cash p2p as it was conceived, for many reasons, the main one being that you tend to save what is valuable, not to spend it.

Pmalek

legendary

Activity: 2730

Merit: 7065

Quote from: cryptosize on April 20, 2024, 10:59:05 AM

We don't know for sure if it's a conspiracy against BTC (do BCH/BSV lovers still hodl sizeable amounts of "worthless" BTC?), but it could be a (slight?) possibility, I guess.

It isn't their only motivation, but it is one of them. I remember watching a podcast back when Ordinals were just in their beginning stage. Some big-blocker spammer was talking about the scalability issues of the main protocol and how they wanted to fix it but couldn't. He said something like, you wanted to keep Bitcoin in its current state, here you go, enjoy Ordinals. We wouldn't have these congestions if the community accepted a block size increase. That's the impression and overall feeling I took from that video.

Quote from: LoyceV on April 20, 2024, 01:25:43 PM

I know Bitcoin currently can't scale to 100 million daily users. But we won't get anywhere near that if currently only a few real transactions per block can get confirmed. Maybe I'm naive, but I don't think it's right that commercial spammers are destroying Bitcoin's usability.

Same here! And that's what they are, spammers. They might be following consensus rules, but they are sill filling up blocks with spam and not with the transactions the blockchain was meant for. We currently don't have many P2P monetary transfers of digital coins in blocks. So, Bitcoin isn't really functioning as it's supposed to. Before someone says, yes it is, I don't consider having to pay 150 sat/vByte to move my coins a normal operation just because someone out there is posting bananas and is willing to overpay for it.

cryptosize

sr. member

Activity: 1666

Merit: 310

Dejavu:

Source: https://books.google.gr/books?id=wRo_E812FNcC&pg=PA17&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

Packet-switched networks not only survived (contrary to doomsayers' predictions), but also packet-switching became the norm for voice transmission (VoIP). Wink

LoyceV

legendary

Activity: 3290

Merit: 16489

Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021

Quote from: stompix on April 20, 2024, 09:26:31 AM

People can use it, blocks are mined, and transactions are confirmed, it's just that it's not cheap and the ones paying more are favored.
Ordinals or no ordinals the same would have happened if you would have had 100 million trying to use it daily.
Demand and offer!

I know Bitcoin currently can't scale to 100 million daily users. But we won't get anywhere near that if currently only a few real transactions per block can get confirmed. Maybe I'm naive, but I don't think it's right that commercial spammers are destroying Bitcoin's usability.

Quote from: philipma1957 on April 20, 2024, 09:38:08 AM

Its not broken but main chain sends are too expensive for small amounts .

It's also too expensive for large amounts now. I wouldn't want to pay $1000 if I have to pay $100 (or more) in transaction fees. That's just not sustainable.

Quote from: mindrust on April 20, 2024, 11:50:54 AM

Look on the bright side, if btc overcomes this attack, it will become even stronger.

I don't expect Bitcoin to disappear over this, but I do expect "collateral damage": the only reason the Ordinal hype/scam uses Bitcoin, is to leech off it's good name. "Bitcoin" sounds a lot better than "some made-up shitcoin with low fees". And once it collapses (which is inevitable), some people will blame Bitcoin. It taints Bitcoin's name. On top of that, if private transactions are too expensive, even more people will keep "their" Bitcoin on exchanges, or ETFs. What's left of the "peer to peer electronic cash" promise if the majority of Bitcoin "users" can't really use it?

NeuroticFish

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Quote from: mindrust on April 20, 2024, 11:50:54 AM

Look on the bright side, if btc overcomes this attack, it will become even stronger. If btc gets destroyed like this, then it would mean btc never had any chance to start with. Hopefully the spammers will run out of sats and btc will keep moving on. Otherwise this doesn't look good. An asset with 1.2 trillion USD market cap will leave a crater on the markets if it goes down like that. I don't think the spammers win. Btc will survive this mess like it always has done. Still though, even if the fees go back down to the reasonable levels, btc will still stay expensive probably and that will keep driving away new people.

High fees keep the miners happy and make them not feel so much the halving.
So this is also a good test for us, the users, since by design the fees can't stay too low and the mining remain such a good business.

And there are always some idiots willing to pay for crap, so I'd expect more the ordinals/runes/whatever hype go off (sooner or later) than these guys run out of sats (or BTCs, seeing what has happened at the halving block)

mindrust

legendary

Activity: 3276

Merit: 2442

Look on the bright side, if btc overcomes this attack, it will become even stronger. If btc gets destroyed like this, then it would mean btc never had any chance to start with. Hopefully the spammers will run out of sats and btc will keep moving on. Otherwise this doesn't look good. An asset with 1.2 trillion USD market cap will leave a crater on the markets if it goes down like that. I don't think the spammers will win. Btc will survive this mess like it always has done. Still though, even if the fees go back down to the (more) reasonable levels, btc will still stay expensive probably and that will keep driving away new people.

NeuroticFish

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on April 20, 2024, 08:59:17 AM

Nope. The record of the day is easily this: https://mempool.space/tx/2bb85f4b004be6da54f766c17c1e855187327112c231ef2ff35ebad0ea67c69e. 3.6 million satoshis per vbyte. This person paid more than 6.732 bitcoin in transaction fee. It's the top transaction of the halving block. I guess you can call it the rarest Ordinal, or whatever they're called. Tongue

I'm curious as to who will give more than $400,000 (!!!) for an Ordinal.

Woah! Impressive #fail. Call me evil, but "I'm lovin' it".

I want to also share that I've just seen on twitter that Norbert (which I was following since the trial of CSW) was just (2h ago) reposted some other(s) who have lost money trying to do with ordinals/runes things they don't understand. Of course, now they hate Bitcoin (because allowed them shoot themselves in the foot) heh...

Am I hoping too much if I hope for this trend to continue and before too long these peeps leave Bitcoin alone?

cryptosize

sr. member

Activity: 1666

Merit: 310

Quote from: Pmalek on April 20, 2024, 10:53:15 AM

Quote from: LoyceV on April 20, 2024, 07:46:45 AM

Bigger blocks aren't going to resolve this.

My post wasn't an argument to increase the block size. I think you misunderstood me. When I said the big blockers are going to win, I meant Ordinals, Runes, and whatever else they come up with in the future, is their way of punishing and attacking Bitcoin for not getting their way. And they wanted bigger blocks. Because they didn't get it, they are now spamming the network proving to everyone that Bitcoin can't be used in its current form.

We don't know for sure if it's a conspiracy against BTC (do BCH/BSV lovers still hodl sizeable amounts of "worthless" BTC?), but it could be a (slight?) possibility, I guess.

Pmalek

legendary

Activity: 2730

Merit: 7065

Quote from: LoyceV on April 20, 2024, 07:46:45 AM

Bigger blocks aren't going to resolve this.

My post wasn't an argument to increase the block size. I think you misunderstood me. When I said the big blockers are going to win, I meant Ordinals, Runes, and whatever else they come up with in the future, is their way of punishing and attacking Bitcoin for not getting their way. And they wanted bigger blocks. Because they didn't get it, they are now spamming the network proving to everyone that Bitcoin can't be used in its current form.

Cricktor

hero member

Activity: 714

Merit: 1010

Crypto Swap Exchange

Quote from: Synchronice on April 20, 2024, 03:42:54 AM

Once fees go down (if they'll ever), I'll try and start inscribing ordinals.

Interesting conclusion of yours. So you're adding your own poop to the pile of shit whatever name tag it has (Ordinals, Runes, ...)?
You instantly lost my respect, welcome to my evil list... Roll Eyes

Quote from: Synchronice on April 20, 2024, 03:42:54 AM

People don't know how to download Electrum wallet, how to create a wallet, how to save seeds, how to send coins, how to set correct fee and so on. Now I am confused, how is there such a high demand on ordinals? If they don't know such a basic things, how are these people able to inscribe ordinals and then buy it on auction. I think this process should be very confusing for many but it's the opposite.

I'm not interested in inscription/runes crap so don't have any personal full workflow experience. But if you look at accompanying websites and services, it seems pretty easy and sleek. Those who profit from this shit seem to be able to throw a ton of money at it to make it as accessible as possible and they did and do it for a reason. Guess what this reason is! Hint: they're neither altruistic nor philanthropic.

philipma1957

legendary

Activity: 4326

Merit: 8914

'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: stompix on April 20, 2024, 09:26:31 AM

Quote from: LoyceV on April 20, 2024, 08:18:50 AM

Quote from: stompix on April 20, 2024, 08:08:26 AM

Quote from: LoyceV on April 20, 2024, 02:42:22 AM

That's it. I declare Bitcoin broken at the moment Sad

Now this a statement that surprised me!

How would you call it if normal people can't use Bitcoin as peer to peer electronic cash?

People can use it, blocks are mined, and transactions are confirmed, it's just that it's not cheap and the ones paying more are favored.
Ordinals or no ordinals the same would have happened if you would have had 100 million trying to use it daily.
Demand and offer!

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on April 20, 2024, 08:59:17 AM

Quote from: stompix on April 20, 2024, 08:08:26 AM

So, this was the record for the day?

Nope. The record of the day is easily this: https://mempool.space/tx/2bb85f4b004be6da54f766c17c1e855187327112c231ef2ff35ebad0ea67c69e. 3.6 million satoshis per vbyte. This person paid more than 6.732 bitcoin in transaction fee. It's the top transaction of the halving block. I guess you can call it the rarest Ordinal, or whatever they're called. Tongue

Loll, I didn't realize there is an extra, I thought it was 3,600 not 3,600,000.
This poor guy, despite spending $510,768 he didn't had the most expensive tx in sat/vb.
Imagine his disappointment.

Its not broken but main chain sends are too expensive for small amounts .

clogged mempool and btc price at 64k.

if btc was 100k the smallest 1 sat send = 16 cent an 10 sat send = 1.60 at this point it is too expensive for small main chain sends.

if an when btc = 500k the smallest 1 sat sent = 80 cents and a 10 sat send = $8.00 so sending under $100 in btc on the main chain would be stupid.

USA has Zelle for no coiners you can easily send up to $1000 for free in under 5 minutes, Bank to Bank with a linked phone number.

IN THE USA Zelle crushes btc for a small under 1 k send see below. sends on the 18th and 19th both under 5 minutes and free.

stompix

legendary

Activity: 2912

Merit: 6403

Blackjack.fun

Quote from: LoyceV on April 20, 2024, 08:18:50 AM

Quote from: stompix on April 20, 2024, 08:08:26 AM

Quote from: LoyceV on April 20, 2024, 02:42:22 AM

That's it. I declare Bitcoin broken at the moment Sad

Now this a statement that surprised me!

How would you call it if normal people can't use Bitcoin as peer to peer electronic cash?

People can use it, blocks are mined, and transactions are confirmed, it's just that it's not cheap and the ones paying more are favored.
Ordinals or no ordinals the same would have happened if you would have had 100 million trying to use it daily.
Demand and offer!

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on April 20, 2024, 08:59:17 AM

Quote from: stompix on April 20, 2024, 08:08:26 AM

So, this was the record for the day?

Nope. The record of the day is easily this: https://mempool.space/tx/2bb85f4b004be6da54f766c17c1e855187327112c231ef2ff35ebad0ea67c69e. 3.6 million satoshis per vbyte. This person paid more than 6.732 bitcoin in transaction fee. It's the top transaction of the halving block. I guess you can call it the rarest Ordinal, or whatever they're called. Tongue

Loll, I didn't realize there is an extra, I thought it was 3,600 not 3,600,000.
This poor guy, despite spending $510,768 he didn't had the most expensive tx in sat/vb.
Imagine his disappointment.

Topic: [Aug 2022] Mempool empty! Use this opportunity to Consolidate your small inputs! - page 14. (Read 88438 times)