Topic: [BBR] Boolberry: Privacy and Security - Guaranteed Since 2014 - page 333. (Read 1210783 times)
August 19, 2014, 01:03:09 PM
chainradar seems to be the best explorer for all CN coins right now.
August 19, 2014, 12:50:15 PM
While we're talking mining anyone know what's going on with BBRFarm....
No blocks maturing
No response to email
Jon
No blocks maturing
No response to email
Jon
They are maturing, "just" not paying...
Awfully big "JUST'
So dead pool?
...
It is odd for booletic to be offline for so long. I will change the pool list until he corrects issue.
While at it, BBR block explorer hosted on cryptonote not displaying blocks for past few days. (along with xdn, qcn, fcn). The monero explorer is working, however.
Author of that also offline from similar timeframe https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/monerochain-331527
August 19, 2014, 12:28:17 PM
While we're talking mining anyone know what's going on with BBRFarm....
No blocks maturing
No response to email
Jon
No blocks maturing
No response to email
Jon
They are maturing, "just" not paying...
Awfully big "JUST'
So dead pool?
...
It is odd for booletic to be offline for so long. I will change the pool list until he corrects issue.
August 19, 2014, 12:17:21 PM
Also noticed buy support has disappeared at Polo...... from 100 to 4 BTC on buy orders......any ideas
Jon
Fake buy walls (finally) removed.
Which likely means less selling. Just saying.
August 19, 2014, 11:30:48 AM
Also noticed buy support has disappeared at Polo...... from 100 to 4 BTC on buy orders......any ideas
Jon
Fake buy walls (finally) removed.
August 19, 2014, 10:48:31 AM
Is it just me, prefering to have still a .zip version of the wallet and not only the installer?
not important, but would be nice as alternativ download.
not important, but would be nice as alternativ download.
August 19, 2014, 01:02:43 AM
While we're talking mining anyone know what's going on with BBRFarm....
No blocks maturing
No response to email
Jon
No blocks maturing
No response to email
Jon
They are maturing, "just" not paying...
Awfully big "JUST'
So dead pool?
Also noticed buy support has disappeared at Polo...... from 100 to 4 BTC on buy orders......any ideas
Jon
August 19, 2014, 12:48:05 AM
While we're talking mining anyone know what's going on with BBRFarm....
No blocks maturing
No response to email
Jon
No blocks maturing
No response to email
Jon
They are maturing, "just" not paying...
August 18, 2014, 09:02:01 PM
While we're talking mining anyone know what's going on with BBRFarm....
No blocks maturing
No response to email
Jon
No blocks maturing
No response to email
Jon
August 18, 2014, 04:43:47 PM
My optimized miner didn't hurt XMR much (we could argue this, of course, but I didn't see too much yelling). I think the difference was that Christian was public about his in an inflammatory way that made people really *feel* the inequity. It's tough when you know you're not getting what someone else is. With most currencies, you might suspect, but you don't *know* that you're behind. Because once the coins are on the exchange, it's all about the buyers and sellers. Perception absolutely is important.
I don't think it was just perception or Christian's attitude. For some reason non-advantaged miners on XMR were still able to successfully mine while a lot of people reported not being able to get anything with BBR. Maybe that is pools or maybe it is the relative difference in advantage (especially once at least modest optimizations started getting committed to the base XMR code), or the faster emission, or some combination of these, but something definitely seemed different about the mining position of the "little guy" for a while.
i´m sure it was about lack of patience to find a block in solo and the lack of pools in the beginning.
Please ask this people if they mine XMR at solo or at pool.
It's kind of hard to ask them now, we are talking about three months ago. I remember people doing both but you are probably right about that being an important factor. For one thing, people who got discouraged with solo mining might have switched to pools instead of just quitting.
August 18, 2014, 04:17:19 PM
XMR/BBR markets just opened on Poloniex!! https://poloniex.com/exchange/xmr_bbr
I suspect it will not see much action
August 18, 2014, 02:21:39 PM
My optimized miner didn't hurt XMR much (we could argue this, of course, but I didn't see too much yelling). I think the difference was that Christian was public about his in an inflammatory way that made people really *feel* the inequity. It's tough when you know you're not getting what someone else is. With most currencies, you might suspect, but you don't *know* that you're behind. Because once the coins are on the exchange, it's all about the buyers and sellers. Perception absolutely is important.
I don't think it was just perception or Christian's attitude. For some reason non-advantaged miners on XMR were still able to successfully mine while a lot of people reported not being able to get anything with BBR. Maybe that is pools or maybe it is the relative difference in advantage (especially once at least modest optimizations started getting committed to the base XMR code), or the faster emission, or some combination of these, but something definitely seemed different about the mining position of the "little guy" for a while.
i´m sure it was about lack of patience to find a block in solo and the lack of pools in the beginning.
Please ask this people if they mine XMR at solo or at pool.
August 18, 2014, 02:17:41 PM
My optimized miner didn't hurt XMR much (we could argue this, of course, but I didn't see too much yelling). I think the difference was that Christian was public about his in an inflammatory way that made people really *feel* the inequity. It's tough when you know you're not getting what someone else is. With most currencies, you might suspect, but you don't *know* that you're behind. Because once the coins are on the exchange, it's all about the buyers and sellers. Perception absolutely is important.
I don't think it was just perception or Christian's attitude. For some reason non-advantaged miners on XMR were still able to successfully mine while a lot of people reported not being able to get anything with BBR. Maybe that is pools or maybe it is the relative difference in advantage (especially once at least modest optimizations started getting committed to the base XMR code), or both, but something definitely seemed different about the mining position of the "little guy" for a while.
I buy your original suggestion of pools. The pools for BBR were never very successful at the start, and pools make it way easier for casual miners.
My advantage on XMR was larger than Christian's advantage on BBR because of the initial bytecoin deoptimization until my tweaks were incorporated into wolf and the public miners, from comparing what Wolf's miner gets vs what CPUs were getting on the smaller (cache-resident) blockchain back then.
It's funny - and a little worrisome - how important pools are for getting people to play the mining game. I don't object to it, but it does create a somewhat scary centralization point, as we've seen with ghash.io. It would be terribly easy to 51% most coins by creating a few "independent", solid pools, offering great fees or even incentive bonuses, and going to town. I'm not sure that I buy Gun et al.'s proposal for enforcing small pools, but it's yet another important thing to consider for the long term of cryptocurrencies.
August 18, 2014, 02:12:01 PM
My optimized miner didn't hurt XMR much (we could argue this, of course, but I didn't see too much yelling). I think the difference was that Christian was public about his in an inflammatory way that made people really *feel* the inequity. It's tough when you know you're not getting what someone else is. With most currencies, you might suspect, but you don't *know* that you're behind. Because once the coins are on the exchange, it's all about the buyers and sellers. Perception absolutely is important.
I don't think it was just perception or Christian's attitude. For some reason non-advantaged miners on XMR were still able to successfully mine while a lot of people reported not being able to get anything with BBR. Maybe that is pools or maybe it is the relative difference in advantage (especially once at least modest optimizations started getting committed to the base XMR code), or the faster emission, or some combination of these, but something definitely seemed different about the mining position of the "little guy" for a while.
August 18, 2014, 02:07:49 PM
My optimized miner didn't hurt XMR much (we could argue this, of course, but I didn't see too much yelling). I think the difference was that Christian was public about his in an inflammatory way that made people really *feel* the inequity. It's tough when you know you're not getting what someone else is. With most currencies, you might suspect, but you don't *know* that you're behind. Because once the coins are on the exchange, it's all about the buyers and sellers. Perception absolutely is important.
I was surprised how strong people feel aggrieved if they *think* they are treated inequity, here on this board.
I would say Christian don´t hurt the coin from his mining but from his honesty and inflammatory about his mining activity.
And this also only in the short run. (i hope so)
In the long run he forced the development of stratum and in the end a open source OpenGL miner for Nvidia and AMD.
August 18, 2014, 02:01:50 PM
Finally we prepared document that explains what is Blockchain-based Proof-of-Work hash function (Wild Keccak) and what ideas lay under this implementation.
http://boolberry.com/files/Block_Chain_Based_Proof_of_Work.pdf
Might be a good idea to add to OP
Will do. I was already updating first post, will add this.
fyi - first post of GPU mining thread has been updated.
August 18, 2014, 01:47:09 PM
Finally we prepared document that explains what is Blockchain-based Proof-of-Work hash function (Wild Keccak) and what ideas lay under this implementation.
http://boolberry.com/files/Block_Chain_Based_Proof_of_Work.pdf
Might be a good idea to add to OP
August 18, 2014, 01:30:09 PM
I think the name is not the key point, the point is the mining issues, it kills this coin, in the early time, there's private GPU tool for mining when most of us are using cpu, it's unfair for most people, and it last for maybe two months, until MBK made the stratum pool and updated the opensource GPU tool the situation of distribution changed a little. Compared to Monero, GPU mining tool appeared early, and it was also efficient at the beginning, so it's not just the name make the difference between BBR and MRO, but the distribution
This is not factually correct - please see my comments on the rpietila thread.
The two coins are *surprisingly* similar in the %age of coins mined during the time someone had an advantaged miner. If anything, XMR is actually just slightly worse, because it has a faster emission curve and therefore a few more coins were mined during the time. (Remember that XMR's curve is twice as fast as BBR's.)
This is a perception problem used by people to bash on BBR, not a reality problem.
The could be only perception, but I'm not sure. It seems a lot of non-advantaged people reported being able to successfully mine XMR and stuck with it, while a lot of BBR miners tended to complain and give up. I have no objective information about the magnitude of these, I'm just going by what I saw on the threads, IRC, etc.
Maybe that is just because the XMR price was going up, lifting all the boats so to speak, I really don't know the history of the price curves of the coins though. I remember BBR have a run up too. If so that would have affected both coins equally.
Perhaps having pools earlier helped XMR. (Is this even true? I'm not sure.) Small miners were able to get something even if they couldn't quite compete on equal footing. Or maybe the faster XMR curve meant there were more coins to go around (that's not entirely rational of course, but people aren't either).
I do think that early coin adoption is rather critical and fragile, and that optimizing miners who come along and "rape" a coin (whether or not associated with the developer) can do a lot of damage. I don't think they owe the coin anything, so there is nothing immoral about this, but people doing it have to decide if they want to help the coin or maximize mining profits. That's an individual decision. Coin developers who don't want to be in this position need to ensure that easy/early optimziations aren't possible. Both BBR and XMR failed on this (as do almost every coin that comes up with some new PoW although most of them are probably actual developer instamine-type scams).
I hope this doesn't come off as bashing becuase that is not my intent at all, I'm just trying to interpret what I saw happening in the past.
I think it was the efficiency gap and difficulty of solo vs. pooled. For a lot of its time (including when the first public GPU miner was released), the fastest miners for BBR were solo miners.
For someone coming from bitcoin-clones, it's more tricky to compile and use the cryptonote stuff. It's not *hard*, it's just different, and has different software dependencies, command line arguments, etc. This applies to XMR as well as BBR, of course.
But with that gap - only closed with the availability of stratum-running GPU miners - BBR had some barriers that gave the more technically clueful an advantage in mining. EC2 remained (at least slightly) profitable for much longer than I'd have expected with BBR, for example, and I think it was because optimizations were scattered around -- mine to simpleminer, otila's to the daemon with some tricky copy-pasting, etc. You had to be comfortable patching code a little to really get the best of all of them together and working right.
My optimized miner didn't hurt XMR much (we could argue this, of course, but I didn't see too much yelling). I think the difference was that Christian was public about his in an inflammatory way that made people really *feel* the inequity. It's tough when you know you're not getting what someone else is. With most currencies, you might suspect, but you don't *know* that you're behind. Because once the coins are on the exchange, it's all about the buyers and sellers. Perception absolutely is important.
August 18, 2014, 01:07:16 PM
August 18, 2014, 12:26:53 PM
Average joes cannot compete in mining any coin, neither BBR or worse , XMR. The FUD with respect to mining continued even when faster public miners came about, private miners were gone from BBR citing profitability issues, and other developments. New PoWs tend to give GPU mining coders an advantage early on, not because a unit of GPU is that much faster, but scaling with GPUs via legitimate hardware is much easier with already available personal rigs or rental resources.
Those who are accumulating XMR or BBR are doing on the exchanges, not by mining. Both essentially are not profitable at the moment for small home miners. It is not mining that dictates success of a coin in current markets, which is why some consider PoW to be fundamentally broken these days. The mining FUD has been played out.
Risto, and other old school Bitcoiners went to XMR first as it was developing a larger team and came to the market first. Once investments are made, it is not just easy to come out of it even when a better solution comes forward. Crypto investments cannot work that way all of a sudden in a large scale. Rubbishing advancements made in BBR was a side effect of this fundamental operating principle of crypto market economies.
If one is not fond of this coin, there may be other reasons to be dismissive, subtle or transparent. Mining has nothing to do with it.
Those who are accumulating XMR or BBR are doing on the exchanges, not by mining. Both essentially are not profitable at the moment for small home miners. It is not mining that dictates success of a coin in current markets, which is why some consider PoW to be fundamentally broken these days. The mining FUD has been played out.
Risto, and other old school Bitcoiners went to XMR first as it was developing a larger team and came to the market first. Once investments are made, it is not just easy to come out of it even when a better solution comes forward. Crypto investments cannot work that way all of a sudden in a large scale. Rubbishing advancements made in BBR was a side effect of this fundamental operating principle of crypto market economies.
If one is not fond of this coin, there may be other reasons to be dismissive, subtle or transparent. Mining has nothing to do with it.
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