Topic: BetCoin.ag closed account and stole around 1 BTC - page 10. (Read 3901 times)

i cant believe u still have not returned the players money

If so, it sounds like your current complaint is that mediation is slow.  Though it has only been three days.

Anyone here who has experience with these mediation processes (which I do not), how long does it usually take?  Assuming that the mediator has not yet responded, I think that there is probably a reasonable timeframe to zikzik to wax impatient; I doubt that the timeframe is three days.

Quoting fixed:

I meant with regard to this:


The purpose of mediation is supposed to be to resolve these issues—either way.

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I am guessing that it goes something along the lines of advice to the effect that, “If somebody is publicly accusing you of stealing money from him, and demanding that you specify the exact amount that he claims you stole, then STFU and don’t do discovery on a public forum.”

That said, I would think that this kind of information would need to be disclosed through any kind of a reasonable mediation process; and I do not see a reason why it should be kept confidential there.


It sounds to me like by your own theory, they should have welcomed you to keep your account!  #justsaying

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I hope that the mediator responds soon, and that the dispute will be resolved in an appropriate manner.

For my part, I don’t see a need for me to rehash this more.  Except for one thing:

Dicey Justice

Quote from: zikzik on October 31, 2020, 05:33:05 PM

1. I dont play cards, i only do sports betting

Well, what about dice?

Once upon a time (Sixteenth Century, IIRC), there was a suggestion that all disputes should be resolved by throwing dice.  Because real-world, government-run courts packed with lawyers have a dismal track record of resolving cases with justice less frequently than would be obtained by random chance.  It is true...

Sorry, I don’t recall off the top of my head what witty wag made that suggestion; I should look it up, but I am feeling lazy at this particular moment.

betcoin is typing trash. you are with someones 1 bitcoin and u still have the guts to come type trash here. i cant even believe this is happening. i dont even know why guys go to useless sites like these when there are far more reputable sites around.
all what they explained here is just trash. this is not enough reason to steal someones 14,000 USD just like that. this is fucking 14,000 usd we are talking about here man. like seriously? THS IS HIS DEPOSIT, NOT WINNING. WTF

To the guy talking of result of the mediation. that is total rubbish. betcoin looses nothing weather the case turns out positive or not. the player still looses irrespective of the outcome. lets stop supporting rubbish. they allowed him deposit severally and said nothing when he lost. when he deposited big and was recovering little, they closed his account.

this shit is pissing me off so fucking bad.

1. I dont play cards, i only do sports betting
2. I have submitted the claim 3 days ago and have not heard anything back yet. Not a word apart from the automated acknowledgement email. So for now i am only watching from the side while my bitcoin is running away ...

i cant really use multi quoting on this forum, i will go one by one ...

those posts you quoted about the same bets ... later in this thread the representative finally acknowledges that they didnt like us betting on some low level game, were we together had like 100% of the market there ...
Please understand that apart from this, and the same bitcoin address they dont have anything... like nothing...
we are physically two different people in two different countries, that YES, discussed bets. As i stated before, if i tip a game, people follow me blindly with their money ...

The thing is, the representative just keeps pushing general phrases, without a single notch of evidence, covering it all with some nonsense how they need to protect their state of the art security system (which didnt work while i was depositing my bitcoin for weeks).

He just simply ignores ANY request for some exact information. Hell, he even still did not provide anybody with the exact balance of my account. Can that somehow put their security protocols in scrutiny ?

He just keeps lying (i pointed out his recent lie with a screenshot to prove) and manipulating facts.

To answer your last question:

Question for zikzik, in fairness:  Betcoin.AG has publicly promised to abide by the results of the mediation.  Do you, too?


Well, i have nothing to abide the decision with... they have my bitcoin, not the other way around.

But, yes, i understand that my account did break the VPN rule from the very start, so legally they can just confiscate all my balance. I expect them to do it, just coz they can ...

But the fact that they claim that i have created multiple accounts i will never never never accept. Because it is one HUGE LIE.

The other thing i will never accept is their claim that i have abused their system.

I lost 1.7 btc there, there was no abuse. I lost it betting on their platform.

The representative cant even explain what exactly i did abuse. Like what is the whole point of this multiaccounting abuse, they claim ... why i did it? what was the purpose?

They would never explain that. All they can do is go into some general thoughts about their security, their history with abusive players (which won big money there i presume). But for me, they will never tell anybody. Because they have nothing to tell ...

Well, I can certainly understand that.  Though what got me sucked into this thread was a bit too much emotion from people arguing both for and against Betcoin.AG; it is not helping to get to the truth of the matter.

Now, you’re a betting man, right?  So, let’s put it this way:

I have never done sportsbook, other than my current epic charity bet with theymos over the U.S. election cockfight.  I’m not particularly inclined to bet on the outcome here.  If I want to gamble, I will typically do either pure games of chance—or poker.

I don’t know you—and I don’t know Betcoin.AG.  I am looking from the outside here.  And it looks to me like somebody is bluffing.

If you’ve got the high cards—that is to say, if Betcoin.AG’s got a hand full of nothing to show the mediator—then it’s a bad play for you to be making all the forum noise now.  That’s why I said, pull back a bit—be cool, up the ante—and then, go nuclear on them if (a) the mediator finds in your favour, and (b) Betcoin.AG refuses to abide by mediation as publicly promised.  There’s your ace!  

Quote from: zikzik on October 31, 2020, 04:30:31 PM

If you are neutral, please, please, ask the betcoin representative this (he is obviously just ignoring all the questions i ask) :

I’m just a spectator here.  Calling it as I see it.

If I were to pose to Betcoin.AG the questions that you ask, then I would probably also need to ask Betcoin.AG to share with me whatever confidential security information they have said that they will show a neutral mediator.  Even if they would (and I am not saying they would!), I do not desire to become so deeply involved here.

Quote from: zikzik on October 31, 2020, 04:30:31 PM

Please ask him if apart from those matches, the bets on these accounts were exactly the same?

Post #5 on Page 1 of this thread:

Quote from: Betcoin.AG on October 26, 2020, 10:06:52 AM

Quote from: zikzik on October 26, 2020, 09:59:56 AM

What you are trying to do here, is to call foul on a "multi account" rule, if two people bet the same games?

This undermines the whole point of betting and tipsters communities and sounds very very manipulative to me ...

To clarify, we never said anything to you about betting the same games. This is not a suspicion This is part of a detailed investigation, which has proven that you multi have multiple malicious betting accounts. We will share our evidence with the 3rd party mediator and abide by their decision.

Oh, also:

Quote from: zikzik on October 31, 2020, 04:30:31 PM

I know i did nothing wrong, apart from the things (and that included breaking the TOS, like using VPN)

Post #9 on Page 1 of this thread:

Quote from: Betcoin.AG on October 26, 2020, 10:19:47 AM

We do not ban players for using VPN unless it is determined that the VPN is used to circumvent other TOS (in this case, multi-accounting and banned region). These are handled on a case by case basis, depending on the violation. In most cases related to banned region, players are allowed to receive the deposit back, at minimum. In this case, due to the abusive nature of the accounts, the balances were seized. Otherwise, it incentivizes the fraudster from returning, knowing that at worst he will get his money deposited back.

Like most Bitcoin sites, since we do not require KYC, we review the account activity upon withdrawal. [...]

We would never close anyone's account without speaking to them first unless we were 100% certain of fraud. In this case, we have very clear evidence. We cannot share this with the player, because it helps them find ways around it for their next fraud, but we are prepared to provide them to a third party mediator, which we have been suggesting to this player since the day this event occurred.

I think that the mediator really needs to have a look at this.  I will not pretend to know what happened here.

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Question for zikzik, in fairness:  Betcoin.AG has publicly promised to abide by the results of the mediation.  Do you, too?

Yes, indeed, it would be the correct path of actions.

Unfortunately i am a too emotionally driven person to act rationally in situations like this.
I just cant stand when others lie about me.

I know i did nothing wrong, apart from the things (and that included breaking the TOS, like using VPN) that i have admitted to in the very first post i made. And this thing just drives me crazy. As you can see i cant let even a single post go, i have to answer and straighten things up.

If you are neutral, please, please, ask the betcoin representative this (he is obviously just ignoring all the questions i ask) :

he says these two accounts bets were not the same obviously, because that account was only 3 days old and mine i had for months, but points out some market where these accounts accumulated almost all the bets.

Please ask him if apart from those matches, the bets on these accounts were exactly the same?

I know its not true. My account was loosing considerable money, and the other account was in profit

I saw that.  So, why not pull back for a little while, let the mediator find in your favour (since you’re so innocent—Betcoin.AG is just lying about you, with zero evidence that you were multi-accounting), and then blast the hell out of Betcoin.AG for refusing to return the money to you as promised (which you must be sure they will do, since you are accusing them of scamming and stealing from you)?

It will impress everybody.  Everybody will hate Betcoin.AG, and you will come out looking like a hero—right?

To be clear, in the manner of a devil’s advocate, I am simply providing strategic advice about how I would annihilate Betcoin.AG’s reputation—if they really did to me what you allege they did to you. “ ”

please read this thread again, i filed the claim 3 days ago with incomplete information (had to use the word "about"), as betcoin.ag just refused to tell me the exact balance of my account (when it was closed i had many 3-5 matches combos pending).

In one of my posts i have included a screenshot of the SBR's claim email confirmation ...

I read it as a polite way of saying, “Put up or shut up.”

—Or, “put your mouth where your money is.”  Which isn’t here, per the highlighted portion.

If you have a legitimate reason for avoiding third-party mediation, then that would be interesting.  Do you?


That kind of a threat would be much more meaningful if you went through all that mediation stuff—and then Betcoin.AG refused to return the money, after a neutral third party found that Betcoin.AG lacked sufficient evidence of your alleged multi-accounting breach of TOS.

Oh, wait—what didn’t happen, now did it?

To be clear, I am neutral here.  I have no financial interest in Betcoin.AG, or anybody else here; I don’t know anything about Betcoin.AG.  I just don’t think that it is looking very good for you here, to promise to make lots of noise on the Internet when you have already been offered a productive means of resolving the matter.  Indeed, it sounds to me more like a promise to wage a smear campaign.  “ ”

my time is not of your concern.

As i promised you in the beginning, i will not let it go. For now, you accused me of scam and you taken action - blocked my BTC, so i think it is only fair for me also to take action, as i feel i am the one being scammed by you here.

So taking action i will. I will make sure that as many people as possible will know about your scamming practices. What is interesting is why you worry about it and my spending time doing it. If you are not scamming me, you have nothing to worry about  

We look forward to having the opportunity share the enormous amount of evidence of fraud we have with any and all third party mediators. One would think that would be the best use of time for a legitimate player, rather than arguing in a forum, since if he is found legitimate, then he gets money. But he already knows the what the result will be.

YOU JUST KEEP LYING !!! (or like in last post, your start to change your fake story  )

below i post a screenshot taken from my original post here, were i acknowledged that betcoin has replied to the other player only once, and THEN started ignoring him

So now it is "2 players" ?
LOL, i thought you were claiming i was the ONLY GUY here multiaccounting from 2 accounts TO ABUSE your system.

Yet again, you failed to explain what exactly i abused ... because the answer is NOTHING.

And yes, it was 2 players. 2 different players in two different countries.

So you admit that you dont like 2 different players have the same bets on low level matches ... this is the REAL reason here !!!

I never suggested i bet Champions League, i just used it as an example to explain, that it is just normal for different people to bet the same bets.

In my text i explained about some of the same bets we took.

Some other bets, which may have been the same, OF COURSE can be easily explained also.

 I am a professional tipster. You can check my publicly recorderd (recorded not by me) stats for 3 years. I have 53% yield on over 3100 bets.
you can see it on https://jj1ba0.blogabet.com/ , that is exactly why i have over 10000 subscribers

everytime i post a pick (bet) they get notifications and right away try to bet the same. If i post a basketball handicap bet, in a matter of minutes that handicap will be changed by 2-5 points in almost all the online bookies in the world, FOR EXAMPLE

so if i told my followers this or that was a good bet, all of them would want to stake that bet. And its normal and not against ANY RULES.

the rest, you are just trying to imagine. Just like your imaginative "evidence"  

but its good, that you changed your wording to "2 players" already, which means you are on the correct track.

Thank you, and these are important questions to ask. We have done our best to be as transparent as possible throughout this thread, and although some things we cannot share, we should be able to answer most of these for you.

Multi-accounting damages Betcoin and all sportsbook financially on a daily basis. This is why every single casino/sportsbook has a rule against it. There are many ways this can happen from abusing promos and bonuses, to circumventing betting limits, using banned technology (bots) to place bets and more. Exploiting casinos and sportsbooks is a full time job for many, and the reason we banned this player's region 2 years ago was because the volume of fraud exceeded the volume of legitimate players, considerably. That is not to say that he is abusive because of where he is from, however the pattern of creating multiple accounts to violate other TOS is the same. Based on this player's activity, we do believe he is a professional, winning player and the fact that he created 2 accounts certainly lends itself to the fact that he would create others. The problem in these situations is that the abusive players keep coming back, thinking they will be anonymous. We still have people who were banned 2 years ago who come back on a monthly basis. This is part of the reason we don't discuss these publicly, as the more people who are aware of how to exploit sportsbooks, the more will do it.

We spend many Bitcoin each year on fraud prevention technology and every time the abusers discover what we have, they come up with new ways around them. As mentioned earlier in this thread, we have banned approximately 500 abusive accounts this year. Through cooperation with some of these accounts, we have gained access to several Discord and Telegram groups with thousands of members, which specifically teach players how to cheat sites, including different methods of exploitation, how to make your region undetectable and how to fake your KYC documents. We learn a lot from these cheats, and just like them, we adapt our security as well.

He suggested that his account was banned because of the same bets and same Bitcoin wallet. Obviously, this does raise red flags, but it is just a part of a greater body of evidence that we have on these 2 players. As this player knows well and stated in the title of this thread, his account balance was about 1 BTC. He is playing dumb, but if you read through his posts, it's apparent he knows exactly what he is doing here. The bets aren't exactly the same, as 1 of the accounts was only active for 2 days, however the ones that are the same aren't UEFA Champions league, like he suggested.
They are bets on very low tier matches where these 2 accounts accounted for 90%+ of the money on the entire match. And he will say that they shared information. Just like they shared a Bitcoin wallet and share the OP. But these little deceptions show that he is skewing the information in his favor. Just like he said we never replied to the other account's emails when in fact we did and the other account did not deny it.

I am casually passing through; I have not reviewed any evidence in this case, and also have not read the Betcoin.AG TOS.  I hereby express no opinion about the case, either way.  I just have a little suggestion for preventing and handling these types of issues in the future.


Yes.  Not naming names, so as to avoid dragging in an unrelated controversy—I recall earlier this year, a major site had a scam accusation for closing the multi-accounts of someone who had abused their sports-bet incentives.  Since they returned his remaining deposits and presented clear evidence of abuse, his scam accusation pretty much just came off as stupid whining.


Suggestion:  Have your lawyers consider adding a liquidated damages clause to your TOS, specifying a reasonable amount that multi-account abusers agree up-front that they will pay based on your cost of catching them, the amortized estimated risk of your business losses if you don’t catch them, etc.  Specify in TOS that this amount may be deducted from the balances of accounts caught in breach of TOS.  Then, deduct that amount from the balances of accounts closed for multi-accounting (merging past and future balances, in case a persistent multi-accounter racks up a big unpaid abuse-handling fee); and return the remaining balances, if any.

This makes it clear that you aren’t just grabbing arbitrary amounts of money.

For comparison, I have seen e-mail services that specify in their TOS a liquidated damages amount of around $100–150 per spam sent using their services.  That is based on their abuse-desk staffing costs, reputational damage and the effort of repairing their reputations, etc.  Of course, the difference there is that they usually cannot collect...

N.b. that in the jurisdictions with which I am familiar, liquidated damages cannot be a punishment or a penalty.  If multi-accounting presents a business risk to you, and your security team needs to spend hours of work time catching and documenting multi-accounts, then you may have a sound basis for a liquidated damages clause—ask your lawyer, which I am not.

In this case, if you did not have a liquidated damages clause, then perhaps you may point out to the mediator (if any) the costs to you of catching the abuse you allege, the potential business risk as aforesaid, and the cost of dealing with scam accusations on the forum.  Depending on what that adds up to, if your evidence is solid, then the fair resolution should be obvious.

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I myself would prefer to design services so that they cannot be damaged by multi-accounters—then let people create as many accounts as they want.  For example, provably fair games of chance, with no incentives that could be abused by multi-accounting.  But of course, gamblers at some types of games will want the kinds of play (and even incentives) that are ripe for abuse.  If you offer such things as people want, then I guess you do need reasonable and appropriate TOS to prevent abuse...  Good luck.

i have some questions for you:
1. You are accusing this user of abuse by multiaccounting, can you please state what damage exactly was done to betcoin.ag in monetary terms. Has the user, and his multiaccounts, cause betcoin.ag to loose money?
2. The fact, that two or more accounts were partly funded by transactions coming from the same btc wallet address proves that the accounts in question are abusers and scammers?  So it is not allowed to fund different accounts in betcoin.ag from the same btc wallet?
3. Are all the bets placed in the accounts in question exactly the same?
4. What is the current balance of the OP's account? He claims it to be around 1 btc, is that true?
5. Is there other account mentioned in this thread,  the one you linked to the OP? If so, is there anything else to link them together apart from same btc wallet and similar/same bets?
I would really appreciate you answering these questions, as this would clear a lot of uncertainties in this interesting case. This would help the community to understand it better.
Thank you and take care.

the guy is a distraction. he is doing what he was paid for oe what an alt will do. i will advice hi to go check my post when it comes to scam. i do not back down. i will follow this thread till the end because this is a clear case of a site trying to scam a player of his earnings

Define abuse. Negative trust is simply the opinion of a "trusted" member towards my account - it is not indicative of an abusive member in any way shape or form. Sarcastically calling OP a saint because some of the members, who just happen to have negative trust, and who also, by chance, happen to have made an argument that defends the OP is in my opinion an indication of some incredibly vapid and feeble analytical abilities.

you must be referring to me. the negatives u saw where from NLNico who happens to be dean aka betking support aka scammer. go check threads of how he scammed people of millions of dollars. i can bet you where also one of those licking his ass when he was here scamming people and i was exposing him.
the way u have been following this thread and the way you have been sounding. i can bet my balls that you are either paid to type trash or you are betcoin alt.
it is only a paid user or an alt that will support a site that refuses to disclose the detail needed to file a claim.
when it comes to identity, all a site needs to do is ask for kyc. u supporting this rubbish they are doing only tells me u are paid or an alt.

lol, my friend. I, from the very beginning, stated that i feel being scammed here and i will use all the resources i have (the website, the 10+ thousand subscribers) to fight this injustice.

Yes i have posted links to this discussion in a couple of Telegrams groups that i have, but it is really just a beginning.

I will for sure try to my to notify my subscribers and general betting community about the shady practices this betcoin.ag likes.

As i said before, my name is certainly worth more right now in the betting/tipster communities, then betcoin.ag

So lets see who wins, who looses from this