Topic: BetCoin.ag closed account and stole around 1 BTC - page 8. (Read 3859 times)

I seriously wonder whether you understand how legislation and society work. Just like in criminal law, every suspect has rights. And those rights therefore also consist of proof.
Keep Betnomi out, that has nothing to do with this. If I have committed an offense and am to be convicted for it, I will ALWAYS see all the charges they have against me. Then it is not said of no you will not see any evidence that only goes to an intermediate party and that decides. Yes, the intermediate party can indeed decide, but always by notifying the suspect and also by making known all the burden of proof that lies there. That's the whole point this is about. It's not about me saying Betcoin is right, it's about refusing to cooperate in any way and that shouldn't be possible. They do not release any information to the user, while it is his own account.

I find it curious that you are leaping to dismiss Hhampuz ad hominem, when at least on this page, besides blowing off RichGang and BTCGOLD, his only substantive argument what I also said:  Let’s see what the neutral third-party mediator says.

(I also find it curious that you both (BTCGOLD, codegnome) have credible-looking trust-page accusations of defending scams—though I can’t be bothered to look further now; maybe later.)

---

I have no financial interest in anyone here.  And I am not here because of Hhampuz, either; this thread came to my attention due to someone else.  I just think that it makes sense to see what a neutral third-party mediator says after reviewing the evidence.  None of the people flame-warring here has suggested any reason to do otherwise.  And although I know that an OP in a non-self-moderated thread cannot necessarily control the behaviour of others, it looks pretty bad when a bunch of accounts make a mud-slinging brigade with rapid-fire repeats of stuff that has already been said.

Does everybody who is following this thread really need to wade through so many pointless posts, whilst awaiting further developments?  You know, trying to attract attention that way can backfire.

I was already wondering why you were posting at all in this thread.. then I saw that you were promoting Betnomi - a competing casino. You are not objective at all, you are purely subjective to defame Betcoin while bringing your own employer up in the ranks. Shame on you.

---

Not at all, actually not at all. If they believe that the user has 100% done them wrong while the user in this case is claiming innocence and on top of that threatening to use his influence to make sure this never goes away and betcoin has to pay for it in the end one way or another, what's the point? Do you think if Betcoin sends the evidence to this user that:
A) He is going to look it at and say - Oh yeah you are right, I actually did commit fraud and made it so that you lost a bunch of BTC. Sorry, I'll remove the thread now.
B) He is going to look at it and say - I see nothing wrong with this, let me just go and post this everywhere now so that everyone is aware of your tools and ways to find and eliminate abusive accounts.

There is no point in doing it from Betcoins side of things. they have offered to send all evidence to a 3rd party who will either support or dismiss the evidence and they vow to pay the user if the mediator will dismiss it.

---

On a separate note I find it baffling that so many of you have such a lack of faith in neutral 3rd party mediators. It is absolutely beyond me, with this lack of trust, why you'd ever set your foot inside a crypto gambling site.

what about other casinos or betting sites what do they think about this? then its easier to compare what the most reliable solution will be

I'm not saying they should agree with the money, but the least they can do is give you information. And that doesn't have to be shared here on the forum at all.
They are not obliged to do so. I find it really bizarre how Betcoin.AG deals with this situation. I've really never read this that a player is accused and then no evidence is presented at all.
I would just ignore Hhamphuz's opinion, because he is their campaign manager and will never fail them. His message can not be taken to serious. There are plenty of people who agree with you.
Only we can do little for you, the only thing you can do is keep posting and managing so that they hopefully resolve this with you.

they even refuse to tell me the exact balance of my account at the time of closing ...

this really tells about their TRUE intentions ...

posting in this thread will change nothing indeed I agree other people do not have to know the reasons what is going on but the user here should know what he did and now he says he is innocent and betcoin claims he is guilty so betcoin can send the evidence or information to the player
if i get caught by the cops then they will also tell me what i did wrong and give me an explanation before they put me in jail

I already wondered why you are reacting so aggressively and defending Betcoin, but since you are their campaign leader, that explains a lot.
You are not objective and are purely subjective to defend Betcoin. You run many campaigns, and that is the reason why you always defend your Casinos.

I think it is especially difficult to confirm that it is a mediator and not someone from an official organization. So they could be biased in this case.

Besides, what's wrong with providing evidence if you accuse someone of cheating? Is the most normal thing in the world.

This has nothing to do with hating, but it seems like you're the one who doesn't read or understand the situation, Hhampuz

They don't have to post the proof in this thread at all, but they can also email it privately to the player. They don't and that's a bad thing.

I think it’s clear that both parties to this dispute can agree:  A prompt disposition of the mediation request would be in everybody’s best interest.

---

inb4 Hhampuz pre-empting me while I was obtaining the quotes from yesterday.

As has been previously mentioned in this thread all you have to do is let the mediator sort this out and if you have done nothing wrong they will rule in your favor and Betcoin has vowed to send you all the BTC you feel you are owed. Why is that so hard? Why are you insisting that they post it all in this thread? What good will come of that? They believe that you have cheated them, posting the proof in this thread will change nothing.. Clearly you must understand this?

There is no point in proving that i did something wrong?

Man... they have my bitcoin, they have the bitcoin of the other guy, they made accusations, they took the bitcoin... and all this without ANY PROOF

There is no point in doing this, are you even reading what you are writing before you hit "Post"? I mean honestly, I know most of you have a grudge against gambling sites and that's the only reason you are posting here but try and apply some logic and think before you post.

In my opinion it is not in itself a strange idea to engage a mediator. Then in a fair way; that is to say, then the player also has the right to see all the evidence here. It's his own account, so he has the right for this.
The reason they provide now that they do not want to give the information because they are afraid he will cheat again is not a common and valuable argument.
If he did something wrong, and you can proof this, then it is easily to close the case and then Betcoin is absolutely in his right.

Who is sufficiently rich to forget about an alleged amount of “around 1 BTC”?  You, maybe? 

I love it when idiots are able to point out what's smart and what's not. Good for you bud, keep it up!

the mediator betcoin is talking about is a trick. they know sbr will never respond to that email or even if they will, it will take months, buy then the player must have forgotten about it.
this is a smart scam

The only way for this statement to be true within its four corners is with some rather sophisticated browser fingerprinting/tracking.^*

With that, it is very true.

* Or with browser geolocation APIs; but those are permissioned, and I would presume that anyone trying to hide his location would not grant permission for that.

I mention this not to help any miscreants, but rather, to point out that privacy on the Web (and otherwise!) is practically nonexistent.  Yes, every website that you visit can know who you are, where you are, and what you have been doing—if they really want to.  Mostly, this is used for ad profiling, corporate data mining, and mass surveillance.

It can be avoided.  Successfully avoiding it with a VPN or proxy requires considerable expertise.  Tor Browser has some of that expertise built into its design and implementation; but Tor is slow, Tor Browser breaks on many sites, and there are still some potential holes that can only be (more or less) mitigated by disabling Javascript.

Now, if anybody was wondering why I complain about Javascript, and about most of the Web being completely useless to me nowadays, here is one good reason...

Every which way, if you’re trying to get away with something, webs and webs and webs are not very helpful.

---

It is one reason why I tend to think that Betcoin.AG probably has something solid to show the mediator.  There are so very many ways that they could have the evidence that they claim to have; and the types of people who do multi-accounting to cheat on sportsbet site rules are unlikely to be technical experts in privacy and security.

Anyway, the mediator will need to take a look at whatever it is.

To be clear, the foregoing is not a Betcoin-specific issue.  If you do not want to use websites that may track you, then you need to more or less STOP USING THE WEB altogether.  And if you carry a mobile phone, then you are a total idiot.

I think I have to agree that some shady things are going on. What Betcoin.ag is telling the customer, does not make any sense. The fact that they do not know even which countries are allowed to play, is already a red flag in my onion. However, they should solve this with the customer. SBR as mediator is really not needed. It is like they are the judge who decides what needs to be done. A very strange decision.
Their argument that they do not want to display the information the customer is also ridiculous. He has the right to know the information.
For me, Betcoin.ag is hiding things now. Play open card and hand the information over to the user. If he is wrong, proof it with evidence. If not, then we can only assume you are trying to steal the funds.
Easy as that.

i think betcoin knows exactly what he is doing. he knows those people will never respond or even if they do, they will side the casino. there should be other ways to resolve ths other than those people. ask these guy to prove his location in the most complex way available. this shitt right here is pure scam. the most annoying part is them playing victim