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Topic: BetCoin.ag closed account and stole around 1 BTC - page 2. (Read 3901 times)

copper member
Activity: 84
Merit: 3
Don't get me wrong. What i mean share some of his money is not all your lost winnings, it's just a compensation, but it's back to both of you how to settle it.
Betcoin.Ag already agreed and returned the money to both of you based on SBR told to you all, i think betcoin.ag is done with this problem.

Well, i dont want to pay my money to KillyPG if he fairly won it in betcoin.ag

The SBR mediation case was for MY ACCOUNT. They have never contacted the other person (even though i have advised him to email SBR proof of his whereabouts), neither SBR nor betcoin have replied to his emails since the day they closed his account.

Why do you say they are done? It is not fair. I have proven with the betlist (remember betcoin's main argument was that i opened KillyPG's account to "abuse their system by circumventing their betting limits"), that there was no abuse going on, NOTHING out of the ordinary.

Yet they call black on white, yet they keep lying. They call me a scammer, they steal KillyPG's money. And i have to pay for it???

Not going to happen. They were ABSOLUTELY 100% sure that i will not get a penny from them. I got almost 20 000 USD of my RIGHTFUL money. Now lets see if will be able to get KillyPG his rightful WON money back.

If they apologize to me for calling me a scammer, pay KillyPG his WON money - the case will be closed. Otherwise it will go on. I have kept the whole betting community out of the loop on this one for now (although i do get a lot of messages asking me about this betcoin.ag lately), but it is about to change big time.

Betcoin.ag IS SCAMMING PEOPLE. They wanted to scam me, confiscated my 20 000 USD, where so sure i will not get it back. BUT I DID. Because i am not a scammer. Betcoin.ag are THE SCAMMERS HERE.


anybody who understands in betting can check out the bet lists here
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.55779792

AND UNDERSTAND HOW BETCOIN.AG IS LYING !!!
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1148


Sorry, but you got it wrong.

I did not have any winnings, i had big minus with betcoin.ag

They have returned my balance with them 1.1 BTC, but i have deposited around 1.8 BTC in total

This is also part of my whole point - THERE WAS NO ABUSE.

I had lost big in my account, more than KillyPG won in his, for example ...


Oh well, sorry i don't know 1.1 Btc only deposit. Well, still got ~73% back from your deposit still a good sum of money (Bitcoin is around $19k though).

Well then it's up to you and KillyPG how to solve your both problem, since you have received your money (deposit including your winning), maybe you can share some of your winnings to KillyPG as a compensation of his lost winnings.

Yes i agree. Zikzik can pay me my winnings for betcoin.ag, dont care. I just want my winnings back to me. I did not do anything wrong. I did not bet together with zikzik, i had my own bets
Don't get me wrong. What i mean share some of his money is not all your lost winnings, it's just a compensation, but it's back to both of you how to settle it.
Betcoin.Ag already agreed and returned the money to both of you based on SBR told to you all, i think betcoin.ag is done with this problem.
newbie
Activity: 13
Merit: 0
Well then it's up to you and KillyPG how to solve your both problem, since you have received your money (deposit including your winning), maybe you can share some of your winnings to KillyPG as a compensation of his lost winnings.

Yes i agree. Zikzik can pay me my winnings for betcoin.ag, dont care. I just want my winnings back to me. I did not do anything wrong. I did not bet together with zikzik, i had my own bets
copper member
Activity: 84
Merit: 3
I'm a bit busy right now to see your bet list (it's very long bet list on above).

Well then it's up to you and KillyPG how to solve your both problem, since you have received your money (deposit including your winning), maybe you can share some of your winnings to KillyPG as a compensation of his lost winnings.

Sorry, but you got it wrong.

I did not have any winnings, i had big minus with betcoin.ag

They have returned my balance with them 1.1 BTC, but i have deposited around 1.8 BTC in total

This is also part of my whole point - THERE WAS NO ABUSE.

I had lost big in my account, more than KillyPG won in his, for example ...

legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1148
I'm a bit busy right now to see your bet list (it's very long bet list on above).

Well then it's up to you and KillyPG how to solve your both problem, since you have received your money (deposit including your winning), maybe you can share some of your winnings to KillyPG as a compensation of his lost winnings.

You should lock this thread and change the title since your problem with betcoin.Ag has been solved and if you still want continue to disscuss between killyPG and betcoin.ag, you can post on his own thread
copper member
Activity: 84
Merit: 3
Hm almost 2 months i've posted on this thread i thought all problems have been solved since OP has received his money. But OP, why do you care too much about a guy who bought signal tips from you? He has received his deposit already, so i think it's fair for both parties. You can even refund his signal tips money (assumed KillyPG has paid you for your signal) or allowing him follow your signal again in the future without any additional payment since you have said you are a popular sports tipster

Unfortunately the situation is not that simple. KillyPG claims i am responsible for his lost winnings now and unless i make them return it, i may have problems with my business in the future. Its all recommendation based in this field ...

Betcoin.ag also still make the false claim that i am a scammer and it is another hit for my reputation. I want them to apologize and acknowledge that i am not a scammer. As DID I towards their whole handling of the situation with me. Remember my account was cleared by the SBR (money paid in FULL) "given the weaknesses on both sides of the argument" - this is a quote from the SBR. SO TO START WITH, the whole betcoin.ag argument WAS WEAK.

And SBR even said this WITHOUT looking at bets in both accounts !!!

You seem to understand in betting, please take a look at these bet lists
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.55779792


Can you see any abuse as betcoin.ag claims?
Why does KillyPG has to loose his rightful winnings?




what i dont understand the most,

is WHY THE BOOKIES CAN GET AWAY WITH STEALING AND LYING

they claim i "abused their system to circumvent their betting limits"

they REFUSED to supply the bet lists in question. I supplied them, ANYBODY can see ANY ABUSE in those bets?

its simple as that guys. I have to take a stand. They LIE, they STEAL, they REFUSE to supply evidence, they choose to IGNORE REAL EVIDENCE.

Unless they admit their mistake, they are scammers !!!
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1148
Hm almost 2 months i've posted on this thread i thought all problems have been solved since OP has received his money. But OP, why do you care too much about a guy who bought signal tips from you? He has received his deposit already, so i think it's fair for both parties. You can even refund his signal tips money (assumed KillyPG has paid you for your signal) or allowing him follow your signal again in the future without any additional payment since you have said you are a popular sports tipster
copper member
Activity: 84
Merit: 3
Shame on you zikzik for going out of your way to not respect the ruling and continuing being a nuisance. Some funny points brought up actually.. Top tipster on your blog yet you are a losing player on betcoin. Backing down on your word - classic.

I am sorry, no offense, but i feel it is just pointless for me to talk to you. When you have asked me questions, i have answered you within minutes.

When i have asked you a very fair question yesterday, and even said PLEASE, you decided to simply ignore it. This is the EXACTLY the same practice as betcoin.ag took, just simply ignoring the questions that will harm them.

Once again i repeat, look at the bet lists here https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.55777264

and see that there is no connection and alleged abuse




I explained to ZIK013 that whether KillyPG is genuinely another person and all activity is innocent or not, Betcoin do have enough evidence to reasonably justify their claim that the accounts are working together and are circumventing their betting limits.

This is LAUGHABLE.
The SBR mediator did not request the full lists of all bets from the two accounts. How can he believe in "circumventing betting limits" when he did not even see ALL the bets.

Here i have posted them all and ANYBODY can see that these accounts belong to different people

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.55777264




Betcoin claim that the source wallet only ever having transacted with the Binance exchange and Betcoin is indicative of how banned Ukrainian syndicates operate.

ZIK013 said Betcoin were incorrect about the wallet usage as he had used it to fund several other bookmakers.

I put it to Betcoin that they were wrong about the wallet use history and they responded with this information;

“Here is a graph of their transactions https://imgur.com/a/4PuYgrC

That wallet on the far left starting with 13Taq is the wallet which funded both accounts. The Zik account had several other wallets which funded and received funds from Betcoin, which are part of that triangle on the left.

On the right side you see sending and receiving exposure and orange is for gambling. All Bitcoin gambling sites are a part of this software.
If I click on the orange for that wallet, you will see that it is 100% Betcoin.
https://imgur.com/a/VNzaTdG
 
To be thorough, I also checked the other 2 private wallets that were related to Betcoin and they are both 100% exposure to only Betcoin, as well.
https://imgur.com/a/N1LJFUA
https://imgur.com/a/hZOnzT2
 
He does have some other transactions which came directly from the Binance exchange but the wallet which was used to fund the Killy account and 1 of Zik's deposits was 100% only used for Betcoin.”
 
I explained to ZIK013 that although Betcoin are only assuming this is the case, I think they are not being unreasonable to be suspicious.
 
I hope this helps provide some clarity for the bitcoin betting community.

LOL, this is Bitcointalk forums. Here people will actually understand.
I used Bitpay wallet. I provided VIDEO to the SBR mediator showing that my wallet has many many different transactions. Some to bookies, some from bookies, some to/from other sources, including the incoming transactions on behalf of KillyPG (thats how my debt to him originated, see my other explanations).

But betcoin decided to play dumb and only talk about addresses they saw that were connected to my deposits to them, BUT, in BitPay you can generate new address everytime you send/receive. So i did many times of course. But all of those transactions were from/to my Bitpay wallet, and betcoin of course can not see them. But i have provided the evidence video to SBR, but betcoin still continue to lie ...



One more time i repeat.

I had my account for 3 months, KillyPG had it for 3 days

KillyPG has took very few bets.

Please take a look at ALL the bets he and myself took. Do you see ANY SYNDICATE betting or ANY ABUSE of betting limits?
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.55777264

IT JUST DOESNT MAKE SENSE. STOP LYING BETCOIN




Betcoin offered six examples of the two accounts making the same maximum limit bets within less then 1 minute of each other.
 
ZIK013 said that KillyPG has made many bets that are not the same as his apart from these few examples, and is in control of his own account.
 
He says KillyPG is a subscriber to his Blogabet service and as such follows most of his bets soon after posted.

I sent ZIK013 three of Betcoin’s example bets and asked him to send me a link to Blogabet where he had posted those, hopefully just before KillyPG bet them.
 
None of those three bets had been posted to Blogabet but ZIK013 provided evidence of a Telegram session where he says he shared those bets with private subscribers only.

This is very manipulative wording.
The SBR mediator did not check all the bets taken by the two accounts. Here is the full list https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.55777264

Anybody with a clear mind can see that there was no manipulation of the betting limits !!!

SBR sent me 3 random bets, i have sent them VIDEO of me posting those 3 bets to my Telegram channel, where i recommend bets to my subscribers. Why they keep talking about Blogabet? I dont have to post bets there for the whole world to see, i post them to only to my channel subscribers. It is absolutely logical.





ZIK013 has changed his mind after being paid, so Betcoin has asked SBR to provide the promised report.
 

I have never changed my mind. But talking to the SBR i have always stated that i have NO AFFILIATION with the KillyPG account and AS SUCH, i could only be negotiating ABOUT MYSELF.

I was happy with the resolution about MY OWN ACCOUNT. Betcoin scammers finally paid after a month of them bragging about their 100500 page report on my alleged wrongdoings and abuses. As i have been saying all along, they will pay, because they are mistaken.

But after i publicly acknowledged my satisfaction and understanding the situation, betcoin.ag continued to call me a scammer and refusing to pay the won money to the other user BECAUSE OF ME.

I had to take a stand to defend my name, reputation and my business.

THE SCAMMERS were sure they would not pay, BUT THEY PAID ME IN FULL and they will have to PAY THE OTHER PERSON IN FULL ALSO.

P.S. here is the full list of the bets from both accounts, TRY TO FIND ANY ABUSE there Wink
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.55779792



Betcoin offered six examples of the two accounts making the same maximum limit bets within less then 1 minute of each other.

STOP LYING ALREADY

i have posted ALL the bet lists, please show at least 1 example of the same MAXIMUM limit bets in the two accounts Wink

you guys just LOVE DIGGING ... you just keep digging yourself in a hole  Grin

here is the bet lists
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.55779792

anybody can see that there was no abuse of the betting limits... NONE WHATSOEVER

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]
legendary
Activity: 3038
Merit: 6194
Meh.
Good on you Betcoin for sharing what actually happened. I, as I'm sure many others do too, feel like this has been resolved. Shame on you zikzik for going out of your way to not respect the ruling and continuing being a nuisance. Some funny points brought up actually.. Top tipster on your blog yet you are a losing player on betcoin. Backing down on your word - classic.

Judging by the lack of presence from other members of the forum in either of these threads since this was resolved I'd say the community has shown where it stands on this matter.

Oh and good for you on honoring your word and paying out that 1.1BTC as per the mediators ruling, Betcoin! See that zikzik? Betcoin said they would do something and they actually did it.
legendary
Activity: 3738
Merit: 1108
Betcoin.ag Forum Rep - Sportsbook, Casino
The following is an unedited statement from the mediator in the case:

My name is Brad Scott and I work with SBR (sportsbookreview.com) helping players resolve disputes with sportsbooks.
 
I have been asked to provide a statement for public consumption regarding the complaint submitted by Betcoin.ag user ZIK013, so am addressing this to the wider crypto betting community.
 
Brief Background:

Betcoin.ag decided that user ZIK013 was playing from The Ukraine, was working with a syndicate from that country and was multi-accounting with account KillyPG.
 
They wanted to confiscate the account balances in line with their stated policy regarding The Ukraine  https://www.betcoin.ag/suspending-service-russia-and-ukraine-effective-immediately
 
SBR was asked to advocate for ZIK013 and after reviewing the available evidence advised ZIK013 that trying to come to an amicable agreement was the best option to see him paid.
 
Betcoin.ag said that if ZIK013 would make a public statement on the Bitcointalk forum saying that he understood why Betcoin were so suspicious and were not unreasonable to have acted as they did, and SBR would provide a report to back up that post, they would treat this as a simple multi-accounting case and not invoke their rule regarding The Ukraine

ZIK013 agreed to this, made the requested post on Bitcointalk forum, and was allowed to withdraw the account balance of that account, and the total deposits that had been made to the KillyPG account. This is what I advised ZIK013 would happen and is in line with fair industry practice for multi accounting, the lesser of current balance or total deposits.
 
ZIK013 has changed his mind after being paid, so Betcoin has asked SBR to provide the promised report.
 
SBR Role:

SBR is not a regulator and does not make “orders”. We attempt to mediate fair solutions to disputes that both parties can be satisfied with and agree to. Confidence that the wider offshore industry can be trusted, without the onerous rules of onshore regulation, is the goal.
 
We advocate for the player and try to avoid doing anything that might compromise their position, so it is with regret that I am now forced to honor the agreement and provide a public explanation of the mediation process.
 
This is not a ruling, just an explanation of the steps taken to find the best possible solution for the person we are advocating for.
 
Betcoin Allegations:

1) Playing from The Ukraine
2) Controlling more than one account & circumventing betting limits
3) Working as part of a Ukrainian syndicate
 
Evidence Offered:

1) Playing from The Ukraine

Betcoin offered activity logs where on three occasions the account was logged in from a VPN connection which changes to the same retail Ukraine ISP owned IP, causing an auto logout. The same regional VPN IP range was used both before and after these logout events, which Betcoin say is indicative of a VPN system drop out and reset.
 
I asked ZIK013 if he had any idea how this could happen.  He said he uses a multi layer setup involving virtual machines, TOR and rotating IPs from five VPN companies and it must have been from that. I said it appeared unlikely any of the 5 companies he named would control that IP and did he know if any of his providers offered “undetectable” or “retail” IPs. He said he did not really understand the system very well but some online friends had helped him set it up and one of them may have included their home IP from inside Ukraine in the rotation.

I thought that explanation brought up more questions than it answered, and there was no evidence of rotating IPs in the logs I was shown to support the theory, so decided it would be fruitless to go any further into this angle.

I asked what KYC proof ZIK013 could offer to show where he is.

ZIK013 said he is located at an address around 10 hours driving time from the suspect Ukraine IP, and in a different country. He said that he could offer passport and utility bills, a photo of himself outside his house which can be identified from Google Earth, an on demand video, or anything else within reason.
 
I believe this is more than enough to meet normal justifiable ID standards and is sufficient for ZIK013 to refute the claim that he is in The Ukraine.
 
Betcoin did not agree with that assessment, saying their experience is that operatives for the suspected group are always armed with fake KYC documents or use a “gnome” stand-in.

2) Controlling more than one account & circumventing betting limits

Betcoin is able to show that the ZIK013 and KillyPG accounts have been funded from the same source.
 
Betcoin offered six examples of the two accounts making the same maximum limit bets within less then 1 minute of each other.
 
Betcoin alleged that ZIK013 has been communicating on behalf of the KillyPG account and offered a number of examples comparing the writing style to justify their claim. I could not argue with their analysis.
 
ZIK013 said that KillyPG has made many bets that are not the same as his apart from these few examples, and is in control of his own account.
 
He says KillyPG is a subscriber to his Blogabet service and as such follows most of his bets soon after posted.

He said that the account funding was him innocently paying back money he owed and denied that he had ever communicated pretending to be the KillyPG account.

I sent ZIK013 three of Betcoin’s example bets and asked him to send me a link to Blogabet where he had posted those, hopefully just before KillyPG bet them.
 
I also asked ZIK013 if he was able to provide anything we can use to show how the money owed had originally changed hands, to support that story.

None of those three bets had been posted to Blogabet but ZIK013 provided evidence of a Telegram session where he says he shared those bets with private subscribers only.

He was unable to think of anything that could be used to help show it was a real debt.

I explained to ZIK013 that whether KillyPG is genuinely another person and all activity is innocent or not, Betcoin do have enough evidence to reasonably justify their claim that the accounts are working together and are circumventing their betting limits.

3) Working as part of a Ukrainian syndicate

Betcoin point to the Ukranian IP they detected
 
Betcoin offered examples of bets on lower leagues and alternative markets that they are suspicious of being syndicate plays

Betcoin claim that the source wallet only ever having transacted with the Binance exchange and Betcoin is indicative of how banned Ukrainian syndicates operate.

ZIK013 said he sometimes uses tips from other sources but denies acting on behalf of any other group or person.
 
ZIK013 was asked to show where several bets Betcoin were suspicious about had been posted on Blogabet, as this would go a long way to refuting the claim these were syndicate plays. But they had not been publicly posted.
 
ZIK013 said Betcoin were incorrect about the wallet usage as he had used it to fund several other bookmakers.

I put it to Betcoin that they were wrong about the wallet use history and they responded with this information;

“Here is a graph of their transactions https://imgur.com/a/4PuYgrC

That wallet on the far left starting with 13Taq is the wallet which funded both accounts. The Zik account had several other wallets which funded and received funds from Betcoin, which are part of that triangle on the left.

On the right side you see sending and receiving exposure and orange is for gambling. All Bitcoin gambling sites are a part of this software.
If I click on the orange for that wallet, you will see that it is 100% Betcoin.
https://imgur.com/a/VNzaTdG
 
To be thorough, I also checked the other 2 private wallets that were related to Betcoin and they are both 100% exposure to only Betcoin, as well.
https://imgur.com/a/N1LJFUA
https://imgur.com/a/hZOnzT2
 
He does have some other transactions which came directly from the Binance exchange but the wallet which was used to fund the Killy account and 1 of Zik's deposits was 100% only used for Betcoin.”
 
I explained to ZIK013 that although Betcoin are only assuming this is the case, I think they are not being unreasonable to be suspicious.
 
Resolution:

Given the weaknesses on both sides of the argument I suggested an agreement to allow both parties to get most of what they want. Betcoin to be cleared of the wrong doing that has been alleged, and ZIK013 to be paid out.

ZIK013 made the requested conciliatory public post and was paid his full balance, as it was less than his deposits, and the KillyPG account had all betting cancelled and the total deposits refunded, as the balance was higher than the deposits.

This is in line with SBR policy and fair industry practice and I think was the best solution for both parties in these circumstances.

I hope this helps provide some clarity for the bitcoin betting community.
legendary
Activity: 3738
Merit: 1108
Betcoin.ag Forum Rep - Sportsbook, Casino
The deal was that everyone would abide by the decision of the mediator, who was in frequent communication with both parties and spent many hours analyzing evidence. This recommendation was that both accounts were to receive the lesser of the amount between the account balance and total of deposits. We were informed by the mediator that it is SBR policy to return deposits, as they do not support punitive actions upon players.

We were disappointed with the result, but ensured that both accounts were paid within the hour. Zik013 received 1.1 BTC (the account balance, which was less than the total of deposits). KillyPG received 0.1 BTC (The deposit amount, which was less than the account balance).

Since punitive damages were not allowed to be collected, the mediator also suggested that as part of the agreement, Zik013 would have to close this thread, mark it as resolved and make a post showing that he believes our actions were justified. Zik013 was also informed by the mediator at that time that while he would be receiving the account balance, the KillyPG account would be receiving deposit only.

Prior to posting these recent updates, Zik013 sent us a message saying that if we did not pay KillyPG his winnings, he would post negative things about us in various forums. Considering he has "no affiliation with this person", he seems awfully invested in his finances. His claimed reasoning for this is that it affects his tipster business when his clients don't get their winnings. Perhaps someone worried about the sustainability of their tipster business should be more concerned about the fact that he posted in this thread several times that he was a losing gambler.

Less than a week after being paid, Zik013 has gone back on his agreement, reopened the thread and continues to defame Betcoin. We believe that this is the true “scam”, since part of the deal to receive his funds was that this thread be marked resolved and closed and once he received his payment, he went back on that.

Below we will post a statement from the SBR mediator regarding the results of this case.
copper member
Activity: 84
Merit: 3
There are a lot of holes in your story tbh, but upon reading the op i  see that you were able to get a deal out of it somehow. good for you then

I was refunded IN FULL upon SBR mediation. The mediator told me he was on my side and did whatever was necessary to get my money back.

The question now is totally different, I AM NOT UNDER QUESTION now.

Betcoin.ag claims that i have created and used KillyPG account to "abuse their system by circumventing their betting limits"

And they base this claim on only those 2 facts i have listed above.

Please check the betlist here https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.55777264 and you can see by yourself (from my STATISTICALL analysis of the both lists) and such thing -  "abuse their system by circumventing their betting limits" NEVER EXISTED
jr. member
Activity: 94
Merit: 1
There are a lot of holes in your story tbh, but upon reading the op i  see that you were able to get a deal out of it somehow. good for you then
copper member
Activity: 84
Merit: 3
Do you mind explaining how it happens that you have no affiliation with this person, he's just buying a service from you, yet you owe him money? Quite the interesting concept.

Yes, very simple. He is paying me for my service, but as he did not use crypto and he was about to receive some crypto from his sources (i dont know which) he sent more btc to me, than he owed. So the rest i was owing to him, so he asked me to return it to him and gave me the address. The address of the betcoin account wallet. He doesnt use crypto, so this way he didnt have to deal with it. I have also explained this to the SBR mediation and he was happy with it.

I am sorry, English is not my first language. If i have used the word affiliation in the wrong context. I was referring to KillyPG account. I have nothing to do with it. Just look at the list of the bets we both took. Does it look to you that i have opened this double KillyPG account to increase my betting limits as betcoin.ag claims?

Honestly, take a look at it PLEASE. Does it look to you that way? Please answer this question ...
legendary
Activity: 3038
Merit: 6194
Meh.
you previously stated you don't even know KillyPG

This just proves that you did not even read my initial post and just defend Betcoin.ag JUST COZ, as they say ...

"I have no affiliation with that person, he's just a follower of my tipster service"

You can go back and ninja edit your posts if you want, the numerous posts.. It's there for anyone to see regardless.

I dont need to edit my posts. Everything i said is correct. No affiliation means i dont know that person PERSONALLY, i have no affiliation with his account.
He is a user of my tipster service and as such we have financial dealings. But i dont know who he is.

All this i have written in my very first post.

Do you mind explaining how it happens that you have no affiliation with this person, he's just buying a service from you, yet you owe him money? Quite the interesting concept.
copper member
Activity: 84
Merit: 3
you previously stated you don't even know KillyPG

This just proves that you did not even read my initial post and just defend Betcoin.ag JUST COZ, as they say ...

"I have no affiliation with that person, he's just a follower of my tipster service"

You can go back and ninja edit your posts if you want, the numerous posts.. It's there for anyone to see regardless.

I dont need to edit my posts. Everything i said is correct. No affiliation means i dont know that person PERSONALLY, i have no affiliation with his account.
He is a user of my tipster service and as such we have financial dealings. But i dont know who he is.

All this i have written in my very first post.
legendary
Activity: 3038
Merit: 6194
Meh.
you previously stated you don't even know KillyPG

This just proves that you did not even read my initial post and just defend Betcoin.ag JUST COZ, as they say ...

"I have no affiliation with that person, he's just a follower of my tipster service"

You can go back and ninja edit your posts if you want, the numerous posts.. It's there for anyone to see regardless.
copper member
Activity: 84
Merit: 3
This is the betlist of ALL THE BETS KillyPG has taken in his accounts. The stake is in units. Each unit is 1/1000 of BTC

DateLinkMatchStakeOddsPayoutCopied
Oct-21verifyKrystal Kherson53.0515.25
Oct-21verifyKrystal Kherson102.121
Oct-21verifyKrystal Kherson151.725.5
Oct-21verifyAris Limasol15.0520YES
Oct-21verifyConcordia302.450YES
Oct-20verifyMajsus M / Vedashe1.172.12.457YES
Oct-20verifyBuducnost68.271.7952122.5
Oct-20verifyBuducnost8.932.529622.58
Oct-20verifyAmerica17.583.8568.72YES
Oct-20verifyDRASSBURG15.382.1533.06YES
Oct-20verifyMetropolitan MORNAR751.75131.2
Oct-20verifyMetropolitan MORNAR0.11.950.195
Oct-20verifyMWADULI501.6582.5
Oct-20verifyNAPREDAK6.242.140YES
Oct-20verifyMAGNOLIA602120YES
Oct-20verifyRUDAR9.861.8718.43
Oct-19verifyDinamo Tbilisi13.924.080
Oct-19verifyDinamo Tbilisi9.595.470
Oct-19verifyBonishuk3.542.017.1154
Oct-19verifyLamia302.7783.1
Oct-19verifyLamia73.4624.22
Oct-19verifyLamia74.9534.65
Oct-19verifySGA Saratov122YES

This is the betlist for my account. Please note i listed only the bets for the 3 days that KillyPG had his account. Overall i have 93 more bets for a total of 4429 staked.

DateVerifyMatchStakeOddsPayoutCopied
2020-10-21verifyAris Limassol FC-Ethnikos Achnas FC34.220YES
2020-10-21verifyFK Mladost Lucani-FK Dinamo Vranje331.859.4
2020-10-21verifyFK Sevlievo-PFC Slavia Sofia4.021.850
2020-10-21verifyCS Concordia Chiajna-CS Mioveni352.450YES
2020-10-21verifyAcs Dacia Unirea Braila-SCM Gloria Buzau47.991.991.181
2020-10-21verifyAcs Dacia Unirea Braila-SCM Gloria Buzau21.62.60
2020-10-21verifyMajsus M / Vedashenko M-Angelov N / Rohozhyn A7.351.4710.8045YES
2020-10-21verifyMajsus M / Vedashenko M-Angelov N / Rohozhyn A3.292.056.7445YES
2020-10-21verifyMajsus M / Vedashenko M-Angelov N / Rohozhyn A5.272.0510.8035YES
2020-10-21verifyMajsus M / Vedashenko M-Angelov N / Rohozhyn A8.521.5212.9504YES
2020-10-21verifyMajsus M / Vedashenko M-Angelov N / Rohozhyn A4.432.059.0815YES
2020-10-21verifyMajsus M / Vedashenko M-Angelov N / Rohozhyn A5.541.89.972YES
2020-10-21verifyMajsus M / Vedashenko M-Angelov N / Rohozhyn A3.842.59.6YES
2020-10-21verifyYokohama B-Corsairs-Chiba Jets Funabashi442.01688.704
2020-10-21verifyLevanga Hokkaido-Akita Northern Happinets24.112.4458.8284
2020-10-21verifyLevanga Hokkaido-Akita Northern Happinets30.871.958.653
2020-10-21verifyLevanga Hokkaido-Akita Northern Happinets38.591.973.321
2020-10-21verifyLevanga Hokkaido-Akita Northern Happinets15.041.928.576
2020-10-21verifyLevanga Hokkaido-Akita Northern Happinets34.043.0728104.59811
2020-10-21verifyAlvark Tokyo-Utsunomiya Brex46.31.7581.025
2020-10-21verifyLevanga Hokkaido-Akita Northern Happinets21.593.373472.83171
2020-10-21verify3 basketball + 1 football combo11.116.10117267.78402
2020-10-21verify5 basketball + 1 football combo11.1110.313104114.57858
2020-10-21verify3 game basketball combo33.332.81492893.82155
2020-10-21verify6 game basketball combo11.119.696109107.72377
2020-10-20verifySao Paulo FC-Basquete Osasco2001.03206
2020-10-20verifyAmerica FC MG-Gremio Esportivo Brasil3.364.0513.608YES
2020-10-20verifyAmerica FC MG-Gremio Esportivo Brasil333.8125.4YES
2020-10-20verifyAmerica FC MG-Gremio Esportivo Brasil118.2590.75YES
2020-10-20verifyASV Drassburg-Bruck/Leitha61.512.15132.2465YES
2020-10-20verifyASV Drassburg-Ask-Bsc Bruck/Leitha26.692.0654.9814YES
2020-10-20verifyUnited Generations For Basketball-REG BBC481.90
2020-10-20verifyUnited Generations For Basketball-REG BBC561.80
2020-10-20verifyUnited Generations For Basketball-REG BBC671.80
2020-10-20verifyUnited Generations For Basketball-REG BBC551.950
2020-10-20verifyHo Chi Minh City Wings-Da Nang Dragons551.950
2020-10-20verifyHo Chi Minh City Wings-Da Nang Dragons44.821.90
2020-10-20verifyHo Chi Minh City Wings-Da Nang Dragons551.90
2020-10-20verifyHo Chi Minh City Wings-Da Nang Dragons93.651.950
2020-10-20verifyHo Chi Minh City Wings-Da Nang Dragons63.552.40
2020-10-20verifyFK Napredak Krusevac-OFK Zarkovo24.972.140YES
2020-10-20verifyFC Dinamo Auto-FC Sheriff Tiraspol15.391.370
2020-10-20verifyFC Dinamo Auto-FC Sheriff Tiraspol3.352.70
2020-10-20verifyMagnolia Hotshots-Meralco Bolts991.75173.25YES
2020-10-19verifySgau-Saratov-Sungul Snezhinsk221.839.6YES
2020-10-19verifySgau-Saratov-Sungul Snezhinsk331.850YES
2020-10-19verifyMajsus M / Vedashenko M-Borec S / Bondarenko R2.231.63.568
2020-10-19verifyMajsus M / Vedashenko M-Borec S / Bondarenko R71.6511.55
2020-10-19verifyMajsus M / Vedashenko M-Borec S / Bondarenko R4.061.76.902
2020-10-19verifyMajsus M / Vedashenko M-Borec S / Bondarenko R7.791.7513.6325
2020-10-19verifyMajsus M / Vedashenko M-Borec S / Bondarenko R1.743.15.394
2020-10-19verifyMajsus M / Vedashenko M-Borec S / Bondarenko R6.491.912.331
2020-10-19verifyMajsus M / Vedashenko M-Borec S / Bondarenko R12.431.4718.2721
2020-10-19verifyMajsus M / Vedashenko M-Borec S / Bondarenko R3.442.79.288
2020-10-19verifyMajsus M / Vedashenko M-Borec S / Bondarenko R3.952.8511.2575
2020-10-19verifyMajsus M / Vedashenko M-Borec S / Bondarenko R4.4928.98

PLEASE note, that EVERY bet can be verified on the betcoin.ag website itself by clicking on the verify link. Betcoin.ag site gives access to all the bets taken on it as long as you know the bet ID.


So KillyPG had his account for 3 days, i had my account for 3 months

During the 3 days KillyPG had his account he has taken 23 bets from which 8 bets were on the same 8 matches (1 bet per match) that i had also bet in my account. On his “unique” matches he usually took 2 or 3 bets per match.

Lets take a look at those 8 bets (8 matches)

Total bet on “copied from me” matches was 146.42 (0.146 btc), this represents less than 32% of his total bets (459.63)
Average bet on “copied from me” matches was 18.3 (0.0183 btc), while average bet on unique (matches not taken in my account) match was 39.13

So to put it in perspective, on his every unique bet he took on average more than TWICE AS MUCH money then he took on every “copied from me” bet

Two of his 8 “copied from me” bets were for about 20 euros each.

Only one of his 8 “copied from me” bets was taken for more than his average bet.
It was a bet on Magnolia Hotshots-Meralco Bolts basketball game from the Philippines PBA tournament. This tournament is available to bet in Pinnacle (very high limits) for example and generally in ANY bookmaker around. This was a LIVE BET, which means GREATLY increased maximums. Was a bet for 0.06 btc.

On his “unique” bets he had bets of 0.0772 and 0.075 btc for example.

The second biggest “copied from me” bet was a 0.03 btc (remember “unique” game bet average is 0.03913 btc) LIVE bet on a Romanian Cup football (a normal tournament with quite large maximum in all the sportsbooks around). Also LIVE means increased maxbets possible.

3 of his 8 “copied from me” bets have lost. Overall he had 0.079 btc profit from “copied from me” bets. That represents 22.5% from his overall profit. So he made more than 3 times as much money on his “unique” bets, than he made on “copied from me” bets.

Now lets crossover to my account. Again, i had it for 3 months, since July. First bet i took was on August 10th.

During these 3 days that KillyPG also had his account there were 8 matches that we both had bets on - “copied from me” matches.

My total bet on those 8 matches was 421.97 which is almost 3 times as much as KillyPG. Overall the bets on the “copied from me” matches represented around 7% of my total bets (and 25% in the last 3 days).

My average bet on every “copied from me” match was almost 0.053 btc, remember KillyPG’s average bet on every “copied from me” match was almost THREE TIMES LESS (0.0183 btc).

For example,
on a “copied from me” match Sgau-Saratov-Sungul Snezhinsk i bet 0.055 btc, while KillyPG bet 0.001 (55 TIMES LESS) - 15 euro
On a “copied from me” match Majsus M / Vedashenko M-Angelov N / Rohozhyn A i bet 0.03824 btc, while KillyPG bet 0.00117 (almost 33 TIMES LESS) - 20 euro


Overall almost every game i bet at least 2-5 TIMES MORE than KillyPG.

Betcoin.ag security claims that i opened KillyPG account in order to “circumvent their betting limits”, ie to BET MORE MONEY on these “copied from me” matches.

Lets look at some of my individual bets from those 3 days (remember i am only taking into account those 3 days KillyPG also had his account, if i were to take a look at the overall statistics it would be even more overwhelming):

If i was a scammer and multi account holder (as betcoin.ag accuses me of), naturally i would want to use both accounts to bet the most on the games that i wanted. That is the whole point of their accusation, isnt it? I opened two accounts “to abuse their system by circumventing their betting limits”.

So naturally the biggest bets i wanted to take, would be taken on both accounts (otherwise where is the abuse and multi account fraud here?). Lets take a look:

The biggest bet i took in my account (talking only about those 3 days) was a bet on the Vietnam Basketball game Ho Chi Minh City Wings-Da Nang Dragons. Overall i took 0.312 btc in MY account and ZERO in KillyPG account. And LOST.
The second biggest bet i took in my account was a bet on United Generations For Basketball-REG BBC game. Overall i took 0.226 btc in MY account and ZERO in KillyPG account. And LOST.
The third biggest bet i took in my account was a bet on Sao Paulo FC-Basquete Osasco basketball game. Overall i took 0.2 btc in MY account and ZERO in KillyPG account. Finally won that bet Wink
The fourth biggest bet i took in my account was a bet on Levanga Hokkaido-Akita Northern Happinets basketball game. Overall i took at least (it was in some other combos also) 0.1642 btc in MY account and ZERO in KillyPG account. Won very nicely on that game and many combos with it.

So you can CLEARLY see that the bets i wanted to take the MOST MONEY on, were NOT TAKEN in KillyPG account. Does it make sense if i am a scammer and multi account holder? Where is the so-called famous “abusing the system by circumventing their betting limits”?

Ok, maybe i have won the most from the so called “copied from me” matches? Lets see:
Hard to find big wins in my account, as overall I was in big minus. That minus was even bigger for the last last day on which I hit 10+ combos on basketball. Some of the combos were 6 match combos (all matches won), some 4, 3 and so on. Overall on that last day on MY UNIQUE basketball (mostly Japanese) bets (mostly BIG COMBOS) i have won around 0.63 btc.

This is BY FAR the biggest profit i made on any game (in these combos almost everywhere i had the same set of japanese basketball games).

Remember in the beginning of this saga myself and some other forum members were like everyday asking betcoin.ag representative to show the list of my bets (KillyPG did authorize the release of his bets also)?

I told you even then, that it would NEVER happen. Because with this info open to the public it does not take a genius to figure out that these two accounts belong to different people with different betting patterns (see the difference of the bets on the same matches KillyPG and i usually take, for example).

Now i have proven to all of you with HARD COLD NUMBERS, that ANY claim of the so-called mysterious “abusing the system by circumventing betting limits” is just LAUGHABLE.

Now it is a fact that KillyPG and myself have a small number of bets on the same matches (and roughly the same outcomes, roughly because not ALL the bets we took on the same matches are on the same outcomes).

I am a tipster (a person who advises others on what to bet) with the best statistics in the biggest betting community in the world - Blogabet. I have over 10000 subscribers and people generally follow my bets.

KillyPG here is a member of my private paid group of people to whom i release my bets in the first place. I have proven to the SBR mediator (i was asked by him about 3 random bets betcoin.ag was interested in) that i have posted those bets to my private channel and advised my followers to immediately take them.

There is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with that. IN FACT, betcoin.ag do it themselves also. On their website you can find previews of different games, where in the end they give their advice, their recommendation on what to bet. Like here for example https://www.betcoin.ag/aalborg-handbold-vs-barcelona-champions-league-handball-bitcoin-sportsbook they advise to bet on -6.5 on Barcelona handball Wink
copper member
Activity: 84
Merit: 3
you previously stated you don't even know KillyPG

This just proves that you did not even read my initial post and just defend Betcoin.ag JUST COZ, as they say ...
legendary
Activity: 3038
Merit: 6194
Meh.
Everything is just perfect for you isn't it... KillyPG can't deposit his own BTC, luckily enough you (you previously stated you don't even know KillyPG) owe him btc and can deposit it for him so that he can follow your bets and bet on only what you advised him to bet on?

Sorry but.. you said you'd accept the mediators ruling, you got your money back, KillyPG got their deposits back.. There is no issue here, it's over and done with.

Looking at how you are handling this now, merely days after it was finished goes to show that Betcoin would have been better off not paying you at all, sad to say but it's true.
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