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Topic: BetCoin.TM Bitcoin Casino | Poker | Slots | Sports | Live Dealers | And More! - page 19. (Read 49092 times)

legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1333
Posting a 99.5% RTP is pretty misleading when forcing unsolicited advice to the player every hand which, if followed, would significantly reduce the RTP.  

Just how bad is the advice?

http://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/basics/#toc-PlayingStrategy lists three strategies for video poker:

 * Jacks or Better simple strategy (return of 99.46%)
 * Jacks or Better intermediate strategy (return of 99.52%)
 * Jacks or Better optimal strategy (return of 99.54%)

The optimal strategy is a list of 36 rules which would take considerable effort to memorise, for not much gain over the intermediate strategy, which is a list of 25 rules. And that doesn't give you much gain over the simple strategy, which is a relatively simple, mostly intuitive list of 16 rules.

So are we talking "worse than this simple strategy" bad?

Edit:

In the example I gave:

As Ks Js Tc 6h

The obvious right play  is holding As Ks Js
EV = 1.4

Software advises holding As Ks Js Tc
EV = 0.5

OK, so that is horrible advice. Even the simple strategy recommends holding 3 to a royal (rule 7). "Chase the gutshot" isn't even in the list:



I think it is reasonable to have the computer recommend simple strategy, which isn't perfect, but is close enough. But to have it give really bad advice doesn't seem acceptable.
sr. member
Activity: 504
Merit: 250
CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!
im very grateful that i stumbled upon your gambling website, it has everything a gambler needs and the staff is really great, keep up the great work
legendary
Activity: 2716
Merit: 2093
Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!
Video poker info says less than 1% house edge.

But the payable is one of the worst and only pays out ~95% with perfect play.  Also, the computer sometimes suggests some pretty bad plays.  (like holding 4 with T Js Ks As X)

I think the 2,672.880 BTC ($1,192,532.14) first deposit bonus is why I've never  bothered to really look at this site in the past, didn't realize there was anything other than those weird games.

Do you have the math and hands to back that up? House edge is what it says on the tin with perfect play. 





You're payout schedule returns 95.5%

If you want to make it 99.5 change the payouts to 800, 50, 25, 9, 6, 4, 3, 2, 1


You don't have to take the hands suggested to you by the computer.

The computer doesn't have to suggest the wrong play.



Thanks for going through the trouble of providing the proof to your claim - we really sincerely appreciate it! Please check again in a few hours and post your findings.


Looks like the payouts have changed to the standard 9/6 Jacks or Better which means the 99.5% RTP is possible.  Good idea! Smiley


Quote from: betcointm
The computer doesn't suggest the wrong plays - but it doesn't always suggest the perfect plays either.

In the example I gave:

As Ks Js Tc 6h

The obvious right play  is holding As Ks Js
EV = 1.4

Software advises holding As Ks Js Tc
EV = 0.5

I think one of these plays is a wrong play.

The computer will often suggest that you chase flushes and straights, so here it is wanting you to go for the straight.



Posting a 99.5% RTP is pretty misleading when forcing unsolicited advice to the player every hand which, if followed, would significantly reduce the RTP. 

Many will trust the computer since it's a computer.  If they find out later the computer was giving advice that increased the house edge significantly, they would feel a violation of trust.

I know perfect strategy but make an occasional mistake.  This auto advice would definitely increase the frequency of mistakes and may even cause me to "unlearn" perfect strategy subconsciously.

Betcoin.TM is not the first to try this:

Oregon Lottery video poker machines hoodwinked players, lawsuit claims

I suggest choosing one of these solutions:
  • Program hand suggestions based on optimal strategy.
  • Disable suggestions by default.  Allow players to enable with a warning that they may not be optimal suggestions.
  • Warning players that while the RTP is based on optimal strategy, the hand suggestions during play are not.
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1333
Suddenly, quietly like "lets cut them, I'm sure nobody will notice it" thinking. Why we should announce it like the "Huge" one and so on. For example Tournament Champions SNGs lasts just 1-2 hours after there was enough eligible players to start playing it for 1-st time.

The made a big fuss about introducing the freerolls, and were much quieter about cutting the payouts. I think that makes sense. Why make a big deal about what is effectively bad news for the players?

    "Hey guys, big news! We're cutting the payout on all the freerolls!!!"

It does feel a little rough that they cut the pot sizes just as people were qualifying to play in the bigger freerolls. It's a kind of bait and switch. I was playing lots to earn points to qualify for the bigger pots, and just as I reach them they vanish. But I was playing with free money, so would feel like a jerk complaining about it.
legendary
Activity: 3024
Merit: 1132
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
One of the newest and best casino's out there.
Just the thing i do not like much about this site is the manual withdrawals. The support is good, everything is good, just if possible why not provide us quicker instant withdrawals...
newbie
Activity: 32
Merit: 0
Your Huge Poker Announcement! doesn't last very long Cheesy

[...]

So freerolls get reduced while player pool get boosted...

tl;dr: waaah, this free money you are giving us is unacceptable Wink

I'm surprised how much they're giving away to be honest. It must be costing them a small fortune.

It's tricky getting people to switch poker sites, and even trickier to get them to risk their own money once they've come for the freebies. It will be interesting to see how much action there is at betcoin.tm once the free money dries up.

I'm 100% agree that their promos are more than generous!. In past 20 days I won over 900mBTC from freerolls and LB.

BUT I'm not OK with the way they cut those promos. Suddenly, quietly like "lets cut them, I'm sure nobody will notice it" thinking. Why we should announce it like the "Huge" one and so on. For example Tournament Champions SNGs lasts just 1-2 hours after there was enough eligible players to start playing it for 1-st time.
legendary
Activity: 3528
Merit: 1234
Top Crypto Casino
Your Huge Poker Announcement! doesn't last very long Cheesy

[...]

So freerolls get reduced while player pool get boosted...

tl;dr: waaah, this free money you are giving us is unacceptable Wink


Completely agree...but I would go even beyond: it's disgusting Cool
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1333
Your Huge Poker Announcement! doesn't last very long Cheesy

[...]

So freerolls get reduced while player pool get boosted...

tl;dr: waaah, this free money you are giving us is unacceptable Wink

I'm surprised how much they're giving away to be honest. It must be costing them a small fortune.

It's tricky getting people to switch poker sites, and even trickier to get them to risk their own money once they've come for the freebies. It will be interesting to see how much action there is at betcoin.tm once the free money dries up.
newbie
Activity: 32
Merit: 0
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1333
Gildarts, if you want to level up follow this rules.

How do I level up my character?

XP is earned in the following ways:

1.) 5% of winnings in cash games are earned as XP (e.g., 100 mBTC is +5XP)
2.) 50% of Tournament Winnings

I think there must be an error or omission somewhere. Last night I gained level 4 by losing a heads-up tournament.

The rules you posted only mention earning XP by winning stuff - so how did I level up by losing?
donator
Activity: 672
Merit: 500
Video poker info says less than 1% house edge.

But the payable is one of the worst and only pays out ~95% with perfect play.  Also, the computer sometimes suggests some pretty bad plays.  (like holding 4 with T Js Ks As X)

I think the 2,672.880 BTC ($1,192,532.14) first deposit bonus is why I've never  bothered to really look at this site in the past, didn't realize there was anything other than those weird games.

Do you have the math and hands to back that up? House edge is what it says on the tin with perfect play.  





You're payout schedule returns 95.5%

If you want to make it 99.5 change the payouts to 800, 50, 25, 9, 6, 4, 3, 2, 1


You don't have to take the hands suggested to you by the computer.

The computer doesn't have to suggest the wrong play.



Thanks for going through the trouble of providing the proof to your claim - we really sincerely appreciate it! Please check again in a few hours and post your findings.


Looks like the payouts have changed to the standard 9/6 Jacks or Better which means the 99.5% RTP is possible.  Good idea! Smiley


Quote from: betcointm
The computer doesn't suggest the wrong plays - but it doesn't always suggest the perfect plays either.

In the example I gave:

As Ks Js Tc 6h

The obvious right play  is holding As Ks Js
EV = 1.4

Software advises holding As Ks Js Tc
EV = 0.5

I think one of these plays is a wrong play.

The computer will often suggest that you chase flushes and straights, so here it is wanting you to go for the straight.
legendary
Activity: 2716
Merit: 2093
Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!
Video poker info says less than 1% house edge.

But the payable is one of the worst and only pays out ~95% with perfect play.  Also, the computer sometimes suggests some pretty bad plays.  (like holding 4 with T Js Ks As X)

I think the 2,672.880 BTC ($1,192,532.14) first deposit bonus is why I've never  bothered to really look at this site in the past, didn't realize there was anything other than those weird games.

Do you have the math and hands to back that up? House edge is what it says on the tin with perfect play. 





You're payout schedule returns 95.5%

If you want to make it 99.5 change the payouts to 800, 50, 25, 9, 6, 4, 3, 2, 1


You don't have to take the hands suggested to you by the computer.

The computer doesn't have to suggest the wrong play.



Thanks for going through the trouble of providing the proof to your claim - we really sincerely appreciate it! Please check again in a few hours and post your findings.


Looks like the payouts have changed to the standard 9/6 Jacks or Better which means the 99.5% RTP is possible.  Good idea! Smiley


Quote from: betcointm
The computer doesn't suggest the wrong plays - but it doesn't always suggest the perfect plays either.

In the example I gave:

As Ks Js Tc 6h

The obvious right play  is holding As Ks Js
EV = 1.4

Software advises holding As Ks Js Tc
EV = 0.5

I think one of these plays is a wrong play.
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
Act #Neutral,Think y'self as a citizen of Universe
That was strange that break time  Roll Eyes.

Anyway, freeroll of betcointm are very rich, every day you can made something like 0.04-0.05 if you're a good player  Cool

I didn't realise you were "Campaign manager Betcoin.tm/Human Resources" when I was playing you in that cash game.

The other guy was complaining that you were playing as if you could see his hole cards and now I guess I know why he was suspicious. Smiley
I also ever lost from him one time when i play with him in cash game. He was get Full House from his card AA and i was get Straight to A. I lost around 30mBTC. Hopely this not happen to him


That was only lucky days for me. I've also lost many all-in against another player (bctmuser), so, I wasn't so lucky as you said.
Hmm.. maybe the campaign manger is having some internal connections with the casino and winning most of the time but losing sometimes so that people don't doubt. Grin Grin
legendary
Activity: 1624
Merit: 1196
Reputation first.
That was strange that break time  Roll Eyes.

Anyway, freeroll of betcointm are very rich, every day you can made something like 0.04-0.05 if you're a good player  Cool

I didn't realise you were "Campaign manager Betcoin.tm/Human Resources" when I was playing you in that cash game.

The other guy was complaining that you were playing as if you could see his hole cards and now I guess I know why he was suspicious. Smiley
I also ever lost from him one time when i play with him in cash game. He was get Full House from his card AA and i was get Straight to A. I lost around 30mBTC. Hopely this not happen to him


That was only lucky days for me. I've also lost many all-in against another player (bctmuser), so, I wasn't so lucky as you said.
legendary
Activity: 1624
Merit: 1196
Reputation first.
bitcoin delete my account, that would be taking the hard work of people, to raise the level



lol, I was very disappointed, because you are playing with me and other users





BetCoin.TM only kengan for me, I always bet on the paddock BetCoin.TM, -oriented my account in hapus.saya no longer

Have you tried to contact the support and see what's happen? Maybe they can help you in way to solve your problem.
legendary
Activity: 1624
Merit: 1196
Reputation first.
I saw too many peoples at level 5 or 6. how they increase their level that first? i am having hard time to increase the levels.played infinite freerolls and .05/.1 cash games but still at level 2. how i can increase the level much faster?
You'll have to wager lot of bitcoins on different games to increase your level faster. i'm not sure how much you will have to wager to reach the highest level status maybe betcoin team could tell us?

I played at least 1.5 Hour at .05/.1 NL holdem table and it just increase my 2 points now at 22/100.And i think i wagered at least 60 chips.i think level increase too fast if i win at tourneys.Still not sure i think only betcointm can clarify this.

Gildarts, if you want to level up follow this rules.

How do I level up my character?

XP is earned in the following ways:

1.) 5% of winnings in cash games are earned as XP (e.g., 100 mBTC is +5XP)
2.) 50% of Tournament Winnings
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
Act #Neutral,Think y'self as a citizen of Universe
That was strange that break time  Roll Eyes.

Anyway, freeroll of betcointm are very rich, every day you can made something like 0.04-0.05 if you're a good player  Cool

I didn't realise you were "Campaign manager Betcoin.tm/Human Resources" when I was playing you in that cash game.

The other guy was complaining that you were playing as if you could see his hole cards and now I guess I know why he was suspicious. Smiley
I guess thats something you can never prove on any site. If a site turns to scam in such a manner, they could be doing it through any username and not always making it obvious.

That's what Russ Hamilton thought also...

http://wickedchopspoker.com/the-ultimatebet-super-user-scandal-part-i/
True but i don't see a reason for them to do this while the bets are not even cents.See the amount they are spending on promotions and stuff,don't you think it will be such a low and unworthy scam attempt,if it is.
sr. member
Activity: 390
Merit: 250
I saw too many peoples at level 5 or 6. how they increase their level that first? i am having hard time to increase the levels.played infinite freerolls and .05/.1 cash games but still at level 2. how i can increase the level much faster?
You'll have to wager lot of bitcoins on different games to increase your level faster. i'm not sure how much you will have to wager to reach the highest level status maybe betcoin team could tell us?

I played at least 1.5 Hour at .05/.1 NL holdem table and it just increase my 2 points now at 22/100.And i think i wagered at least 60 chips.i think level increase too fast if i win at tourneys.Still not sure i think only betcointm can clarify this.
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1009
I saw too many peoples at level 5 or 6. how they increase their level that first? i am having hard time to increase the levels.played infinite freerolls and .05/.1 cash games but still at level 2. how i can increase the level much faster?
You'll have to wager lot of bitcoins on different games to increase your level faster. i'm not sure how much you will have to wager to reach the highest level status maybe betcoin team could tell us?
hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
bitcoin delete my account, that would be taking the hard work of people, to raise the level



lol, I was very disappointed, because you are playing with me and other users





BetCoin.TM only kengan for me, I always bet on the paddock BetCoin.TM, -oriented my account in hapus.saya no longer
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