Topic: BetSoft Non-Payment of Jackpot - page 4. (Read 17835 times)

He's hoping that those who quickly skim through this mess of a thread will only take note of his above average vocabulary/decent grammar and assume he must be making some sort of valid point. 

#cjmoled

The graphs look pretty damning to me. So you're suggesting that after February 13, all the players of this particular game simultaneously switched their playing style to one where they couldn't possibly hit the jackpot? Seems a little far fetched.

If you can't make a cogent point without resorting to ad hominem attacks, you should just stop, because you have already lost the argument.

Dude...STFU!  Anybody with half a mutant brain cell would choose the mode that had the highest jackpot....Especially those who are spending thousands of dollars in max bets to hit the jackpot.  If you had a choice to spend 5 to win 10, or 5 to win 5000.....would you still choose to spend 5 to win 10? (<--nevermind, don't answer that---I'm assuming you have at least half a mutant brain cell which I'm seriously reconsidering)  And, if you had the intelligence to understand the data, then you you'll notice that is exactly what happened....people were playing in "Bad Girl" mode because the jackpots were higher.  There was no "unlocking" and "locking" like you guys suggest....LOL....Players had the choice to play in the mode which they thought would be most profitable to them and when they did that it excluded the possibility that the other event could occur because it is not only a mutually exhaustive event, but it's also a collectively exhaustive event.  It is a design specific to that game which you guys insist is faulty among all the other Betsoft games that were being tracked because it displays "odd" behavior compared to the other games!  The data only demonstrates that the behavior is not, in fact, "odd" but that the game is working exactly how it was designed to work!  LOL  You guys are just stooopid, that's all!

And....pages and pages of spewed bullshit doesn't make the bullshit any more valid!  It's still just a bunch of spewed bullshit used to dilute the truth.

The default is to play both the good girl and the bad girl at the same time.
Players have the option to switch to only good or only bad also.  
I had a real life lol when I realized you've covninced yourself that everyone must just be switching from both to just the "Bad Girl" mode.


Okok, let's look at the data.  I'll explain it to you.

These are all from Nov till Feb

Here we have the .1 denom "Good Girl" from Bovada.
The average jackpot is $840 and it appears to be getting hit regularly.
After Feb 13th it doesn't get hit and grows to over $4,000


Same thing except on Slots.lv
Average Jackpot is close and clearly there is less action on this site.


Now lets look at the .1 denom "Bad Girl" Jackpot at Slots.lv
Clearly this jackpot offers more variance.  Only 16 winners but the average jackpot is about twice a much as "good girl"
(also note: no winner after Feb 13th)


Finally the .1 "Bad Girl" Jackpot On Bovada
It was already over $350k because nobody had ever hit it.
Nobody hit it during this time period while it increased by nearly $100,000


The .05  and .25 denoms had nearly identical graphs see:?
Bovada Left, Slots.lv Right
Good Top, Bad Bottom



Bovadas Bad Girl Jackpot was locked for all the denominations above.
It was unlocked for the .02 denom though, see:


Notice that out of all the graphs I've walked you through, not a single jackpot was hit after Feb 13th?

First, the statement "Note: JACKPOT CANNOT BE MULTIPLIED" means that the jackpot cannot be multiplied....whatever other assumptions one insinuates from that clause is just an assumption and in noway a statement of fact.  Second, "Note: JACKPOT CANNOT BE MULTIPLIED" is not contradictory to "Bonus round and free spins do not qualify for the jackpot bonuses."  In fact, they are complementary statements.

This is actually what the terms state:

"Bonus round and free spins do not qualify for the jackpot bonuses pursuant to casino software provider rules. Only real money rounds qualify for the jackpot bonuses."  http://archive.is/XcDrD (Text bolded by me)

Yes, it may be confusing to some when you omit information, but when you re-insert the omitted information, then it unsurprisingly makes sense again.  Notice the bold in the above....omitting that information changes the clarity of the argument.



Okay...I'm going to ignore the misquotes because I know that you cannot help yourself and it is second nature for you to fabricate information to suite your argument.

However, in the study conducted by casinolistings.com their regression studies only considered Betsoft progressives and they treated the two jackpots on that same game, in that study, as though they were independent events, then they concluded that something must be wrong with the software because some jackpots weren't won at all while others were won at higher frequencies. Do you know why?  Because the mother fuckers were mutually exclusive!  If you're playing for one, it is impossible to win the other!  But, no, they didn't consider that fact, so they concluded:


LOL....Really?  Isn't it funny that the only game he found in his study that demonstrated such behavior is the only game in his study that is designed to demonstrate that behavior?  They're "locked" because people are playing in "Bad Girl" mode!  <--- Look at the data!

And, the difference between the other games on the other sites you mention (which weren't included in casinolisting's study, I might add) is that "Good Girl, Bad Girl" let's the players decide which mode to play....it's not random!  That means that it is not only mutually exhaustive, but it is also collectively exhaustive in most modes!

Do you understand what that means, or are you just totally incompetent of rational thought altogether?

Glam life != Greedy goblins, but you have a point , the rules around everything should be much more airtight, but that's far from justifying the shill attacks,
and 1001 same threads that serve no other purpose other than to bash and redirect gambling traffic to certain other sites.

Yet again you fail to see my point. The game rules for Greedy Goblins shows that the jackpot can be won with a freeroll. There is the sentence, "Note: JACKPOT CANNOT BE MULTIPLIED" under the freeroll section. The terms of service, however, state that, "Bonus round and free spins do not qualify for the jackpot bonuses". Hence, the game rules are contradictory with the Terms of Service. What is so hard to understand about this?

The terms state: "Bonus round and free spins do not qualify for the jackpot bonuses pursuant to casino software provider rules. Only real money rounds qualify for the jackpot bonuses."  This--> "Bonus round and free spins do not qualify for the jackpot bonuses" and this -->"Only real money rounds qualify for the jackpot bonuses" are not opposing clauses.

Free spins never qualified for the jackpot, in "The Glam Life;" otherwise, the jackpot would have dropped when the combination was hit on the free spin. If free spins don't qualify, shouldn't that be clarified for the player who doesn't understand the difference between "max" and "free" and the mechanisms that link the two to avoid future confusion?  

Look: "only max bet spins qualify for the jackpot."  "Only," is a big word in law and logic.  However, this is what the affiliate shills are trying to demonstrate that clause means: "only max bet spins, but sometimes free spins, qualify for the jackpot," but the word "only" actually really means "only"....it is exclusionary, not inclusionary.

But, this is my point....the affiliate shills, the competitor shills, and the pro-regulatory shills are manipulating the truth, confusing the facts, and recruiting the ignorant to  further their own perverted agendas.



Red font added by me in the above for brevity.

Please stop making shit up about me.

The max bet rule didn't change. 
They added the following to their terms:

"Bonus round and free spins do not qualify for the jackpot bonuses pursuant to casino software provider rules. Only real money rounds qualify for the jackpot bonuses."

These "software provider rules" that disqualify Jackpots during bonus rounds and freespins are not made public and likely don't actually exist.
Of course, it's tough to prove this when Betcoin ignores anyone who asks and Betsoft has a policy of not communicating with players.
I suspect whoever wrote this new term doesn't realize that many of their progressive jackpots can only be won during a bonus round.


JasonOrt satisfied all requirements for the progressive jackpot according to the rules at the time.
They changed the rules retroactively and did not pay him the jackpot.

Maximum means the greatest or highest amount possible.  JasonOrt bet highest amount possible for the denomination specific jackpot.  In other words, he bet the maximum.

Just because you're dumb and poor now doesn't mean you will be forever.  I believe you are capable of creating a less dumb future for yourself where you enjoy a less poor lifestyle.  I hope you do.


https://www.casinolistings.com/forum/gambling/online-casinos/28043/questioning-betsoft-jackpots?page=1

When you make a claim like this, you should explain how you know it to be true.   Otherwise, it would be silly for anyone to believe you.

Each denomination has 2 independent jackpots.  You can't win them both in a single spin.  This means they are mutually exclusive.
Is that what you meant?  I think you might be confused.

It's really nothing unique for a game to offer multiple proggressive jackpots.  Most of the time, these jackpots are "mutually exclusive". It's just another way of saying you can't win more than one jackpot in a spin. 

At the copa offers 3 progressives.  You can't win more than one in a single spin. They are mutually exclusive.
PartyPoker offers "The BigOne" slots.  It's 5 independant progressives.  You can't win more than one in a single spin.  They are mutually exclusive.
Any time you see a "Mini" "Medium" "Max" type progressive game, they are almost always mutually exclusive.



lol^^^

The spins were free for him because he won them, but they were still max bets, otherwise he would have not get the 1000 credits...


This is because you do not know what logic is! If Elfania free spins qualify for the Jackpot, then The Glam Life or any other similiar spin game qualify as well for it. It is as simple as that.

As I already explained to you, Betcoin has no juridical valid Terms of Service, but now we have at least a picture that confirims that free spins are eligible for Jackpots.

"Only real money rounds qualify for the jackpot bonuses" was Betcoin's phrasing to attempt to solidify their argument of "free spins do not award jackpots".

They have that in the sentence prior: "Bonus round and free spins do not qualify for the jackpot bonuses"

So, if the terms don't coincide with the game rules, then certainly there's a problem. Which one takes precedence?

My arguments have had nothing to do with Glam Life, by the way. I was only arguing about the Terms of Service and the game information. By linking these two, you clearly haven't fully understood what I was stating.

It is relevant.  It is not truthful to pretend that the rules for one game ("Greedy Goblins") apply to another totally different game ("The Glam Life") which has its own rules.  The fact is that only max bet spins qualify for the jackpot as was specified in the rules of the real game played "The Glam Life" and free spins are not max bet spins because "maximum" and "free" have antithetical definitions.  Maximum: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/maximum  Free: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/free

See, when one knowingly bases their own information on information that is demonstrably false, then their own conclusions are already demonstrably false.  

Instead of double posting for the campaign, why not edit the two into one post?
Ah, but that's right! You need those precious cents!

EDIT: Looks like you've finally followed some advice!

The fact of the matter is not the game. That's irrelevant. They don't include the exclusivity rule of jackpots on max bet there. In fact, the red message in there means that the jackpot can be won in the Free Spins mode, as it's under that topic.

Hence their Terms of Service conflict with that very reality: "Only real money rounds qualify for the jackpot bonuses."
http://archive.is/XcDrD

You can see yourself. Please, tell me why this would happen. After all, you're so knowledgeable.

Red Font added by me in the above for brevity.

EDIT: To combine responses for brevity.

This guy is manipulating the truth again.  The image above is not associated with the game in question....He is lying!  The game in question was called "The Glam Life" and if you look closely, you'll find that there is no "Elfania sign"  in the "The Glam Life."

What information was inaccurate? Betcoin's, right? Because they only implemented the rule about max bets after jasonort began to complain.

Are you talking about Twitchy? Because from what we've already seen in the past, Betcoin altered the ToS without changing the "Last updated" date to try and stealthily sneak in some rules. That's a serious problem.

https://www.casinolistings.com/forum/gambling/online-casinos/28043/questioning-betsoft-jackpots?page=1

You can look at those pretty pictures if you don't have time. They show clear problems with BetSoft, and in no way did Betcoin determine at all that there was a problem with them. Even going out of their way to try and make it seem like jasonort didn't fulfill the requirements for the jackpot.

If you have more than you could possibly use, then you won't need a signature campaign, right? After all, you've earned enough. You can gamble with everything you've earned in the past.

Of course did you win the Jackpot!

Your original bet was a max bet. Then you won 4 max bets with the 3 airplanes on 2 paylines and each of the 4 free spins are technically a max bet.

The slot do not run without a bet and whether you paid directly or won the 4 max bets does not play any role for to be eligible for the Jackpot.



-> "Jackpot cannot be multiplied" confirms that Jackpots are eligible during free spins. They can not be multiplied, but they are clearly eligible!


Did you sign a contract with Betsoft? If not, then betcoin.ag would be your contract partner.

If you buy a car, the seller is your contract partner and not the producer or software provider!

I said betcoin.ag would be your contract partner, because there is no juridical valid contract between you and the domain betcoin.ag or however they call it. So from a juridical point of view, you can consider everything you get from Betcoin as a gift.

If you would know who the operator of Betcoin is, then you could sue them in the applicable jurisdiction...  

Impressive.

Yes, my stance did change once Betsoft resolved the issue with jasonort and after I looked at all the details, and realized that I was being manipulated with inaccurate information. I don't like cheaters or thieves just as much as the next person and probably more....but liars and false accusers are just as bad.  I'll stand up for those who are cheated, but I don't like being manipulated with false information to attack honest people to satisfy other people's perverted agendas.  Believe me, I've done thorough research on the subject and I am no slouch when it comes to probability, normal distribution, or variance, nor am I a slouch when it comes to statistical analysis and legal research.  I don't have all this free time to engage in weird debates, gamble, and do whatever I feel like because I'm dumb and poor....I earned my bones in life and I have more than I could ever possibly use as a result....No, I'm here because I believe in this stuff....I'm no bum hunter....I've been around the game a lot longer then you realize.

Responding here to cjmoles post in the [Beware] TwitchySeal: Abuses his Rep, replies to his own posts with alts, etc thread.

No player should "realize it" if it's not written anywhere. 


Jason bet the maximum.  The result of his maximum wager was free spins.  These freespins pay out based on the ammount of the wager that triggered them.  (in this case, the maximum)  At no point was jason given the option to bet more.  If he had been, and he decided not to bet as much as he could, then he would not be eligible for the jackpot (according to the rules at the time).  That's not what happened though.  He bet the maximum.

I somewhat agree with you hear.  All things considered, it's pretty hard to draw any conclusion other than the software is coded so that  large jackpots like this one simply can not be won. 

No, they changed the time stamp.
The problem is, they didn't change it until after I called them out for changing their terms in June 2016 without telling players and leaving the "last updated Jan 2015"

Weeks later they claimed it was an accident.  Considering their history. there's only a tiny chance that they aren't lying, in my opinion.

They added a rule about not being able to win the Jackpot during freespins.  This was a change.

The rules are not clear enough.  They need to clarify where these jackpots are receiving funds from/which sites they can be won at.  They need to clarify what happens when a jackpot is won: does the player receive the whole thing?  How do they seed the new jackpot?  What are the odds of hitting a jackpot?  Do the chances vary from denomination to denomination? 

If they don't want the jackpot to be eligible during free spins, that's  fine.  But it's not fine to add this rule and enforce it retroactively.  I believe they only did this because they do not consdier that 500BTC jackpot as money the players are entitled to.  They believe they have no intention of paying that BTC500 jackpot.



I was using Greedy Goblins to prove that the possibility of winning a Progressive Jackpots during a freespin or bonus round is nothing out of the ordinary.  There is no "unspoken rule" that Progressive Jackpots can't be won if your other-wise qualifying bet results in multiple "spins" or a bonus round.  In fact, it's quite common. 

Unless otherwise noted, if a player makes a bet and triggers "freespins"  they should expect these "freespins" to payout based on their initial wager. 

It's interesting to see cjmoles is now making a very similiar argument that Betcoin made right off the bat:



Betcoin has over 70 individual progressive Jackpots totalling around 3,000 bitcoin (almost 2 million USD).

Assuming the jackpots are listed in the number of credits at that specific denomination...
The two highest denom jackpots for Glam Life account for more than 80% of the combined value of all Betcoins 70+ progressives.
These two jackpots are currently worth BTC 2,520.5205  (about $1,490,000)
503.6385BTC for the .5 denom and  2,016.882BTC for 1 denom

In the past 37 days, the .5 denom jackpot has grown by BTC0.002
The BTC2,016.882 Glam Life 1 denom jackpot has not grown in the past 37 days.

If you compare the jackpots at other sites (specifically the GETJACKPOT ping response from Betsoft servers) they are not linked.
For example the same two Glam Life .5 and 1 denom jackpots above are worth over BTC500 more for a total of BTC3,025.002 on Bitcasino.io 

It's pretty clear the same thing is happening at Bitcoin casinos that was discovered about Bovada slots in this thread, as in many Betsoft Jackpots are simply "turned off".  As in, they continue to collect 1% (or 2% in some cases) and contribute it to the  "jackpot" but only the smaller jackpots have any possibility of being hit.  As in, Betsoft is stealing from their affiliates based on this 1 or 2% and lying to the everyone about prize that can not be won.

JasonOrt has given up on his 500BTC jackpot long ago.  His case and the way it was handled is just another example of the current pathetic state of Betcoin and Bitcoin gaming in general. 

Betcoin pays 6-7BTC per month to their 45-55 members.

They pay more than any other campaign. (I think)

The only reason ognasty and a majority of their members is a member is bc of the money. (I know)

It's disgusting and needs to be stopped.


(on my phone, do the math - I will share more detailed info tomorrow or thurs)