Topic: BetSoft Non-Payment of Jackpot - page 6. (Read 17897 times)

I wish i could say that there was no error from betcoin, but there was that fact that they didn't have pointed that jackpot cant come from free spin.
The software immediately show how the hit wasn't a valid jackpot, and betsoft confirmed that, so what to do in that situation ?! Nothing else other than
a settlement can fix that, because obviously you don't give someone jackpot amount because of error in TOS.

Jason wan't screwed over, because it wasn't a valid jackpot hit in the first place, due to it being a free spin. The one who lost the most in this case was betcoin,
because it got pressured from Jason, betsoft, and competing casinos who just waited such opportunity with pitches and forks.

Please tell me how the jackpot was hit in error in free spin. Shouldn't a slot paytable say so? I was the first one in this thread to point out that Betsoft changed the paytable only AFTER Jason won the jackpot during the free spin play. Let me get this straight, this slot has been out for 6 1/2 years and it took until now for Betsoft to realize there was a error in this slot again after someone hits the jackpot combination during free spin play. So they can just make up the rules of the game on the go? It comes down to this. Jason got screwed out of hundreds of thousands of dollars because Betsoft is a shady gaming provider and is not honest. Betcoin contracts out games from Betsoft therefore they are not honest either.

It was betsoft that refused the jackpot, hence the thread title is BetSoft Non-Payment of Jackpot, and not Betcoin Non-Payment of Jackpot, but you only attack betcoin.ag.. hmm.. why is that i wonder..

After a mistake in TOS was pointed out, it was obvious that neither betcoin or betsoft are going to pay them out, but due to the fact that they did make a mistake in
TOS, the only logical move was to settle with client which he accepted and stated this :


...and now he's back wanting more, even tho he wont admit it openly. He can't harras betsoft so he's doing so to betcoin.


It will be paid out when a valid hit happens.


I think you are describing yourself.

I would like to ask people to look at TwitchySeal FIRST POSTS ( https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/twitchyseal-538922 ) since he created account a year ago or so..  
It's obvious that he created the account primarily to attack betcoin.ag

Why would someone do that, ask yourself ! Well ofc, because he is a shill of other competing casino, and you know on who i mean when i say that.

What makesyou think that the jackpot shouldn't be won during a free spin?  Because they said so afterwards?  They have other games where jackpots can be won during either regular spin or during freespin bonus rounds, some games jackpot can only be won during bonus rounds.

They also said it was because of the wrong denomination.  

In the end, when  considering the betsoft jackpot data and Bovadas reaction, it's pretty clear (in my opinion) that they didn't know what reason to give because they never thought those 5 symbols would appear on a valid pay line and those 500+ BTC (and growing) will never be paid out to anyone.  

It's also clear that ajaresdale (like cjmoles) has a tendency to make statements as if they are fact when, in reality, they are assumptions or opinions at best and often blatant lies.

Most your question have been answered in first line of communication, but you keep repeating them because you want a different answer.
Can you please answer one question i have asked ?

I can see that talking with you further will solve nothing. You have deflected all of my questions.  Let's just agree to disagree.

You settled, wrote about how happy you are, and now you say you are not happy with money, but only want information..
I hope you can see how this sounds like you're trying only to hurt middleman here, who went above and beyond with betsoft to get you that settlement.



You both should , and should not have won it imo, hence the settlement was the logical choice. I know how cold this may sound, but you know urself that you wouldnt have
taken the deal if you were 100% correct on the matter.





Fair enough, but i hope you realise that every letter they write about the case gets twisted and turned 99 times by competing casinos and their representatives,
so the best option may be to open a private line of communication. And furthermore, what makes you so sure you are the only one under NDA ?

I can see that you realize that betcoin.ag is the middle man in this situation, and even tho they could have played this out in a better way, i really hope you can
see that they are getting bashed and abused way more than they earned.



After all this said and done, let me ask you a simple question; Do you think betcoin.ag is a scam site ?

OK I'll jump in here.  I am not asking for more money.  Yes I settled.  Am I happy with that, No.  What I am asking for is information.  I want to know how the bets are handled so that I can inform myself and other players on what goes on behind the scenes of an online casino.  This whole experience has left a bad taste in my mouth with software providers being able to not pay on a winning spin by saying that they made a mistake after the fact.  I would like to know the chain of custody of a bet, who handles the money, and who decides a win.  Is it the casino or the software provider.  In this case I would also like to know why betcoin.ag has censored and/or deleted my posts.  If they have nothing to hide and they backed me as they say then why censor me?  And third I simply asked for their opinion on whether they thought I should have been paid the jackpot.  It is simply an opinion and not legally binding as the transaction is apparently between the player and the software provider, with the casino acting only as a middleman.  After what I went through I do not think these questions are asking too much from them.  I am not trying to bash them in a public forum, in fact I have for the most part backed them.  But two weeks have gone by since I posed these questions and I have been completely ignored.  They went so far as to delete my post from their site until I pointed this out publicly on their player chat and embarrassed them enough to put my post back up.  All I want is some transparency, because as it stands I am not confident enough in their site to continue to bet there.  I want to, I like their site, but I need my questions answered first.  Is that really too much to ask?

Valid point, but the problem is that jackpot was won by error in free spin, which should not have happened. That's why they all settled the matter, and Jason was paid an amount
he said he was satisfied with, until he wasn't anymore (wtf..)

It should not have happened in the first place, but you can't expect casino to go bust on an error, especially when blame is on betsoft, and not betcoin.ag.

I think this is a legal gray area at best. A couple weeks ago a court of appeals unanimously ruled that Microsoft didn't need to comply with a search warrant for e-mails they stored on Irish servers. The fact that the data were relayed by a U.S.-based company wasn't enough to give the court jurisdiction over the matter.

http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=ae2fb30d-207e-45ad-9316-4022ec64fd69

Related note: Why is it so freakin difficult for Betcoin to just come out say and "yea, we fucked up, our bad, we won't make the same mistake again".  Why are they going through all of this trouble to delete posts, blame the victim, and to hide a colossal blunder that is obvious to pretty much everyone?  Just come out and admit the issue, address how things will be different, and try to do better.  Fact is that a player played a game on Betcoin's site where they should have won X dollars, and he didn't receive the full amount.  What is all this nonsense about moving on and keeping quiet?  When you deposit money into Betcoin and play one of their slots, are you playing with the expectation that if you were to win a jackpot, you would have create forum threads, sign NDAs, and take legal action to collect your winnings?

Umm, okay, you realize that in order for you to sue someone and collect judgement, that other person has to actually show up in court right?  Please explain to me why Betcoin, operating out of some shady island, is going to buy some economy class tickets, spend money on attorneys, and fly over to Murica to defend against a claim, when ya know...they could just not?  Even assuming that jason gets a default judgement in his favor because no one from Betcoin showed up, how in the world is he going to collect that money?

Do you think the US is going to send over some international task force to break down Betcoin's doors for civil litigation?  Trying to sue Betcoin is literally the most useless, pointless thing ever.  Like that course of action has 0 realistic merit. 

This is so retarded.  Please go and try to sue an entity that does not store their money in the United States and see how successful you are in collecting money. 

The argument isn't with CloudFare....the jurisdictional argument is "where was the server located which precipitated the signing of the contract on the date it was signed."  The location of the server in which the contract was signed establishes a jurisdictional claim.  It's a holding that is clearly established in international law and is the reason why different jurisdictions have the right to claim peoples private information contained with the cloud if that information passed thru servers within their jurisdictions.

CloudFlare isn't Betcoin's server. They intercept incoming traffic and then let it through to Betcoin's server or don't if they think it represents a threat. Besides, CloudFlare has wisely written a loophole into their TOS:

Who owns betcoin, who owns betsoft? What if they are the same person /people? 

No, the question becomes in what jurisdiction was the server located at the time the contract was signed....negligence has nothing to do with it.  And, Betcoin was the mediator in this action between jasonort and Betsoft which complicates the matter to another degree which further justifies the decision to negotiate a settlement rather then litigate the action.

If this was an issue arising from the negligence of CloudFlare, which is their anti-DDoS protection, you might have a case. However, going after CloudFlare is unlikely to get you very far. The only leverage they have over Betcoin is whether or not they choose to license their service to them, and I'm sure that if they decided to not work with Betcoin anymore, Betcoin would just use one of their competitors and continue business as usual. That would be like suing the bouncers at a nightclub if the nightclub didn't give you correct change.

If the Terms and Conditions of the contract were signed in the United States then there can be a jurisdictional claim submitted in United States.  The contract was signed in the United States; therefore, a jurisdictional claim can be submitted within the United States.

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Now, whether or not locus standi could be demonstrated is another matter.  So, an out of court settlement was in the best interest of both parties.  At the heart of the matter was whether or not a "free spin" could be considered a "maximum risk wager."  Some of the questions that would have been asked are:  "Does it state anywhere that only maximum wager spins qualify for the jackpot?" "Does a free spin contribute to the jackpot?"  Or, "What was the intent behind the coding?"  "Is the 'drop jackpot' method/function called on a zero risk spin?"  Both parties could have made a case because the matter was far from cut and dry, so a settlement was negotiated.

What's important now is that the integrity of the settlement be maintained.  Those who are urging for and facilitating disclosure do not have jasonort's best interest in mind because he could be taken to court and forced to return the sum of the settlement.

Now, I'm not justifying a case for either side because both sides had valid claims; however, I do tend to be on the side of jasonort because the terms of the jackpot should have been more clearly stated to avoid this type of incident....At this point, the matter has been resolved by mediation as opposed to arbitration or litigation so jasonort will be held to those terms and we should stand behind him on this matter so as not to jeopardize his position.  

If you have some sort of cogent argument to put forth, I'd love to hear it. I think you're bluffing, though.

I'm not going to explain the way i would do it, but if you think about it for a while, you will see that there is much easier way to prosecute someone.
Any decent lawyer will know what to do. Or do you think whole world is doing whatever the hell they want ?!

In regards to licencing, most of casinos here are without a licence (case we will explore soon enough)