Topic: BFL Requests Input - page 4. (Read 34846 times)

@ All

By the way, BFL requests your input:

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/showthread.php/324-Photos-of-PCBs-cases-and-heatsinks

Edit: Before they say "no", keep in mind they already said "yes" to this a long time ago.

If Avalon ships in December, as does bASIC, that would be truly devastating to BFL if they have yet another delay. They would be the odd man out who is late to the game.

Lets hope they are lucky this Christmas.

I know that bASIC started almost a year ago.

Tom is just more conservative in what he does and did not want to announce anything until it was final or close to it.

Of course he got pushed around for not releasing power specs earlier, but he also didn't want them to be off. Since the way his product is being developed, he really won't know the true specs until he is putting the boards together and testing them.

The good thing is people will know the accurate power and get their board shortly thereafter.

@ BitSyncom (An Avalon Representative)

When did you start conception of the Avalon device?

I think It can safely be said, that you have just  shown how immature and unsuitable for the 'evaluation' role you really are.
It really is not worth my time trying to explain manufacturing principles or bathtub failures to such a person.

Live long and prosper.....
HC

To be fair, we started working on ASICs before we announced our projects in private ( as did BFL and bASIC I'm sure), so that statement isn't exactly correct. What I dislike is the whole notion of announcing the earliest possible date of release with no regards to possible setbacks. The lack of project management skills and experience shocks me. Although apparently hype sells. Maybe I'll announce that Avalon ship in December after all.


This statement is plain slander. We, Avalon has only reduced and moved ahead of our shipping schedule after eliminating the chances of potential problems that could arise. With that said, there is the possibility for us to deliver even earlier than Jan 14th.

Fell free to copy, paste and modify these questions so they are suitable for Avalon and bASIC threads.

... relevance?

Avalon stated january-february from the start afaik No one except bfl showed any proof of what is coming. Yet only bfl is questioned. Are the ones asking questions (the same and the same and the same) considered shills? Are their comments removed? Do the "neutral" mods start a topic to put all that "bfl drama" in? No.
Clowns without a ROI?

but no one has delivered or showed working product so we don't know the actual ship/release dates...

bASIC hasn't really changed since they first said in September that it would be Nov/Dec
It's now the first week of Dec - so I guess you'd call that making the estimate more accurate - not moving it.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1157524

Funny thing is....
Avalon actually had pushed their date forward to a sooner release date. From February/March 2013 to January 2013. (Did you get that punch line?)

I am not sure what the original date for shipments was for the  bASIC.

In BFL's defense, they are doing Full Custom so that may be why they are taking more time.

what about the notion that bBASIC and Avalon also push back their dates

Maybe bASIC just announced it later and were working on it earlier without telling.

I agree. It is baffling to me how BFL can start working on their ASIC so far ahead of their competitors, yet ship about the same time as them.

I made a late order (September) thinking that they would be shipping a month ago and that they'd already be through quite a few orders by now.

I am pretty disappointed in them and I wish I would of ordered from a different vendor, but it's a little too late now. I probably would of got my equipment 2-3 months earlier if I would of ordered from Tom at BTCFPGA. 

+1

I'm amazed by the delay between ASIC annoucement and expected release date of BFL vs bASIC and Avalon,

What is it roughly,  BFL ~9 month , Avalon ~4 month ... ?

Well, how can ASIC manufacturers be more open? What exactly do you wish to know?
I think Avalon is doing pretty good in that department, if you have questions feel free to ask us.

3) Customers who bought BFL hardware and are now turning their official company forum into yet another BitCointalk.org. (Due to legitimate expressions of frustrations)

I don't think BFL needs any help to create frustration. They can do it all by themselves. They simply have to keep doing what they are doing.

Look, they have their own (company controlled) forum, and it is starting to read like this section on this forum. What does that tell you?



I am sorry, but I personally think that BFL is trying to (with intention) use various kinds of stall tactics until their products actually are ready.

Their game plan has always openly been to:

1) Be the first to market. (they may now soon be the second or third if this keeps up)

2) To produce thee most electrically efficient system.

(The advantage here is seriously slipping against bASIC each time they release new info)

The Customers side is:

1) To possess the mining systerms they purchased as soon as possible to enjoy mining at a very lucrative rate before the reward halving.

(This is all but lost now. Now BFL representiatives are instead switching proposals to an idea that they will be "the most profitable" in the "long run". Lets see if that argument holds much water if bASIC devices come very close to the same power envelope. or if customers receive a system that only produces 3$ a day.)

2) To make money while difficulty is low.

(This is all but lost now, their target dates for shipments keep getting pushed back so that even if Avalon and bASIC who started out later in the game will now ship at almost the same time.)

3) To support the BitCoin Cryptocurrency.

This is goal is still viable.

---------------------------------

So yes, early pre-orders with BFL are unlikely to turn into refunds. As long as the stated goals of either the customers or the vendor are still being met.

If bASIC ships out in late November and Avalon in early to mid January...IF....there is yet another delay....what exactly impels a customer to stay? (Even an early pre-order customer?)

Loyalty? A trade-ins rewards program? A lifetime warranty?

----------------------------------

Each delay makes any sensible customer reassess what they purchased and why they purchased it.

All BFL needs to do is set the date back yet another month to get customers angry or frustrated. If any of the other companies ship on time it will just be one more nail in the coffin.

This is why I don't think BFL needs "haters"...they just need to be themselves and that in itself is enough to create the issues people see and bemoan day in and out.

I imagine this is why they answer questions the way they do, without actually saying anything. I think they have a very good idea long in advance as to what the actual date of shipment will be. I do not think they have a meeting at the end of the month and all agree that they will miss their target a few days before the latest official delay.

Other people with experience know that production lines are difficult and time consuming to set up. Even if and when they hire someone else to do it for them. I think they are being almost facetious when they inform their customers of their ship dates.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/facetious

When people like Bogart and Enrgi ask the right questions, they are probably forced to admit in roundabout ways that things are not going smoothly. They just say it in very circumspect ways as to both be saying the literal truth but also leading people to believe in something which is probably known to be  ill-construed as the actual truth.

I believe this is the reason why the two invited representatives are not on a plane and going to see anything at a BFL facility. If they reported what they saw at this stage it would detract from their business rather than add to it. Adding fear and loathing....etc.

So when the two fly out, then it is a strong indicator that things are ready to actually roll. (Which makes the whole thing kinda pointless IMO).

Right now Kano and Yochdog are where they are because what BFL wants them to see and report is not set up yet. This should reflect on that shipping goal that is just (roughly) 3 weeks away from today. In customers minds that should bring up many doubts (IMO).

you forgot:

3) people that are a bit slow in thinking stuff over long and hard, are hence still thinking and have come to the realization that they'd be too late in the queue now to make any serious amount of coins. Now their head hurts from thinking too hard for too long and they have to vent their frustration and envy.