I dont think the location is ideal.
I don't know if it is good tho. 
Topic: Bir Tawil nation (Read 6425 times)
The Kingdon of North Sudan - https://kingdomsudan.org/
Bir Tawil - https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_North_Sudan
Mapping micronations - The Stream - http://stream.aljazeera.com/story/201408141504-0024059
Why Bir Tawil, why not Bir Tawil and the Hala'ib Triangle.
The Hala'ib Triangle is strategically very important for the Egyptians. It contains several kilometers of the Red Sea coast and there are several permanent villages there as well. Egypt is never going to give up that area.
Why Bir Tawil, why not Bir Tawil and the Hala'ib Triangle. Obviously for Egypt and Sudan to renounce their claims it would require them both to benefit from it, what better than economic growth for both countries. Say for example the countries main telecomms provider is an Egyptian company and the defense force deals are with a Sudanese company. Just an example. As for water, in every post I've ever seen about Bir Tawil no one has mentioned desalinatation plants. Since the whole of Bir Tawil and the Hala'ib Triangle only receive about 20mm annual precipitation why not drain the water from the red sea. And for any country to start up, it will be in mass debt for the first 50+ years and with a startup like this with no money, no economy and no basis for an economy until you get things running you'd probably rely a lot on the IMF, World Bank and International loans, just note Bir Tawil does have oil caches under all that sand. There's no point starting a country if its going to end up in poverty with no infrastructure, health care or even housing or water. Foreign investment would be key, long term loans would make up a good proportion of the economy and since it lacks natural resources a large manufacturing industry would be ideal. You can't start a country without a long term goal and a plan, a plan for the next 20 years atleast.
far from coast? less than 200km is far for you? hmm
Yes. 200 km is a very large distance. Especially in the Sahara desert where there are no roads or even isolated tracks. Even the Egyptian military uses helicopters to get its personal to the Bir Tawil. How do you expect the pirates to get there. Also, given the naval patrols being conducted by the navies of Egypt and Saudi Arabia in the Red sea, I don't find it possible for the Somali pirates to reach anywhere near that area.
It's not really that desert of an area, there is even a national park around near by, the region is between the river Nile and sea shore, while some of it is located in deserted from the sea to the Bir Tawil area is far from being all desert, and you think pirates/separatists/terrorist in the region uses sport cars? it's pickup trucks and they know very well the region. Ask AQMI how they manage to move around in the Sahara between Algeria, Mali, Libya, Sudan. As how to expect pirates despite the tight surveillance (btw there are even US destroyers in the area to help) then maybe you should check the recent ships they managed to take over in recent years despite all that
far from coast? less than 200km is far for you? hmm
Yes. 200 km is a very large distance. Especially in the Sahara desert where there are no roads or even isolated tracks. Even the Egyptian military uses helicopters to get its personal to the Bir Tawil. How do you expect the pirates to get there. Also, given the naval patrols being conducted by the navies of Egypt and Saudi Arabia in the Red sea, I don't find it possible for the Somali pirates to reach anywhere near that area.
it is indeed, but I think Bir Tawil was answered, from my perspective, the geopolitical tensions in that region will render any attempt impossible, not to mention as I mentioned before, the region is full of pirates, and separatist (Somali is split in two right now) ect ect, I think that bitcoin should gain political and lobying power in several nations but I believe that woudn't happen with current market cap but if bitcoin get past the 10K point things will become more interesting
Bir Tawil is full of pirates? It has no sea coast and Somalia is far away. There are no humans there with the exception of the Egyptian soldiers. The easiest way to establish a Bitcoin nation might be in Bir Tawil.
far from coast? less than 200km is far for you? hmm
it is indeed, but I think Bir Tawil was answered, from my perspective, the geopolitical tensions in that region will render any attempt impossible, not to mention as I mentioned before, the region is full of pirates, and separatist (Somali is split in two right now) ect ect, I think that bitcoin should gain political and lobying power in several nations but I believe that woudn't happen with current market cap but if bitcoin get past the 10K point things will become more interesting
Bir Tawil is full of pirates? It has no sea coast and Somalia is far away. There are no humans there with the exception of the Egyptian soldiers. The easiest way to establish a Bitcoin nation might be in Bir Tawil.
we started discussing Mars too much, we should create a new thread about it..
someone else do it, I have to wait 6 minutes after posting this lol
this thread is about Bir Tawil, let's not mix stuff up too much
it is indeed, but I think Bir Tawil was answered, from my perspective, the geopolitical tensions in that region will render any attempt impossible, not to mention as I mentioned before, the region is full of pirates, and separatist (Somali is split in two right now) ect ect, I think that bitcoin should gain political and lobying power in several nations but I believe that woudn't happen with current market cap but if bitcoin get past the 10K point things will become more interesting
Damn... seems like we have some competition:
http://mw.micronation.org/wiki/Associate_State_of_Bir_Tawil
http://mw.micronation.org/wiki/Associate_State_of_Bir_Tawil
they're competition only on paper
To be fair, lepirate repeatedly said that it would be easier to build on Antarctica than it would be to claim Bir Tawil or colonize Mars. He never claimed that it would be easy though. In fact, he claimed that it would be hard.
I'm not at all interested in discussing all technical details (basically because I'm not really read in on all technicalities), but the fact remains, it would be cheaper and easier to: Build the base, make it inhabitable, find the people willing to live there, make it self-sufficient.
Also, I think lepirate agreed on the artificial island thing earlier in this thread.
I'm not at all interested in discussing all technical details (basically because I'm not really read in on all technicalities), but the fact remains, it would be cheaper and easier to: Build the base, make it inhabitable, find the people willing to live there, make it self-sufficient.
Also, I think lepirate agreed on the artificial island thing earlier in this thread.
He clearly said it was easy until faced with facts, and change his stance from easy to easier than .
How can you say it would cheaper and easier without even getting proper solutions, lets just put things into perspective here which important here:
his plan is to be build an independent nation/area where a group of people can live independently from other countries, not only politically independent but in almost every domain, aka energy independent, supply independent ect ect achieving such a think is no easier than going to Mars and this was my whole argument.
How can talk about facts if you can't talk about technical challenges and cost related to those challenges it is not logical by any mean.
Now if you want to have a station on Antartica for a small group of people (a dozen of person) that will not live there permanantly (to this day Antarctica has 0 permanant habitant for reference) and that you'll be supplying from the outside world all the time sure that's much much cheaper and technically less challenging than going to Mars, this goes without saying, but the other thing that goes without saying, is what's the point in this case.
Yeah, but remember that once on Mars there's no way back (unless we develop return crafts as well, which would raise the price with a few more billions). Most people running from NSA and IRS will not be willing to do that.
Also, we would not have any use for bitcoins whilst on Mars anyway. There's nothing to buy there, so there would be no use of bitcoins, not even money (depends on the size of the colony).
With those things even the original idea is gone, with its freedom for bitcoiners and weed.
It would be cool with a colony on mars though.
Also, we would not have any use for bitcoins whilst on Mars anyway. There's nothing to buy there, so there would be no use of bitcoins, not even money (depends on the size of the colony).
With those things even the original idea is gone, with its freedom for bitcoiners and weed.
It would be cool with a colony on mars though.
No way back? you just take your space craft to get you back with or even send it before hand <.< , euh hello Apollo program, the challenge of getting of Mars is much easier than lifting of earth due to the low gravity, and the heaviest thing in a space craft is fuel, and you can create rocket fuel on Mars surface while carying minimum of chemicals that are not easly available/produceable on Mars.
There is no doubt that such project will cost billions of $ I'm sure I mentioned this, but anything related to owning own land and nation would cost as much, unless it is very small
we started discussing Mars too much, we should create a new thread about it..
someone else do it, I have to wait 6 minutes after posting this lol
this thread is about Bir Tawil, let's not mix stuff up too much
Sad to see the discussion drifting away to the dream zone.
The Bir Tawil nation is theoretically possible. If the Egypt and Sudan reaches an understanding about selling the disputed property, then it can be purchased by bitcoiners.
On the other hand, Antarctica should remain outside human interference according to the international treaties. There is no way on earth that the UN is allowing someone to settle there.
The Bir Tawil nation is theoretically possible. If the Egypt and Sudan reaches an understanding about selling the disputed property, then it can be purchased by bitcoiners.
On the other hand, Antarctica should remain outside human interference according to the international treaties. There is no way on earth that the UN is allowing someone to settle there.
Anything related to making own country independent area is in the dream zone right now, just that some plans are more viable than others but either neither the whole Bitcoin market cap or it political influence can do such a thing
To be fair, lepirate repeatedly said that it would be easier to build on Antarctica than it would be to claim Bir Tawil or colonize Mars. He never claimed that it would be easy though. In fact, he claimed that it would be hard.
I'm not at all interested in discussing all technical details (basically because I'm not really read in on all technicalities), but the fact remains, it would be cheaper and easier to: Build the base, make it inhabitable, find the people willing to live there, make it self-sufficient.
Also, I think lepirate agreed on the artificial island thing earlier in this thread.
I'm not at all interested in discussing all technical details (basically because I'm not really read in on all technicalities), but the fact remains, it would be cheaper and easier to: Build the base, make it inhabitable, find the people willing to live there, make it self-sufficient.
Also, I think lepirate agreed on the artificial island thing earlier in this thread.
He clearly said it was easy until faced with facts, and change his stance from easy to easier than .
How can you say it would cheaper and easier without even getting proper solutions, lets just put things into perspective here which important here:
his plan is to be build an independent nation/area where a group of people can live independently from other countries, not only politically independent but in almost every domain, aka energy independent, supply independent ect ect achieving such a think is no easier than going to Mars and this was my whole argument.
How can talk about facts if you can't talk about technical challenges and cost related to those challenges it is not logical by any mean.
Now if you want to have a station on Antartica for a small group of people (a dozen of person) that will not live there permanantly (to this day Antarctica has 0 permanant habitant for reference) and that you'll be supplying from the outside world all the time sure that's much much cheaper and technically less challenging than going to Mars, this goes without saying, but the other thing that goes without saying, is what's the point in this case.
Yeah, but remember that once on Mars there's no way back (unless we develop return crafts as well, which would raise the price with a few more billions). Most people running from NSA and IRS will not be willing to do that.
Also, we would not have any use for bitcoins whilst on Mars anyway. There's nothing to buy there, so there would be no use of bitcoins, not even money (depends on the size of the colony).
With those things even the original idea is gone, with its freedom for bitcoiners and weed.
It would be cool with a colony on mars though.
Also, we would not have any use for bitcoins whilst on Mars anyway. There's nothing to buy there, so there would be no use of bitcoins, not even money (depends on the size of the colony).
With those things even the original idea is gone, with its freedom for bitcoiners and weed.
It would be cool with a colony on mars though.
No way back? you just take your space craft to get you back with or even send it before hand <.< , euh hello Apollo program, the challenge of getting of Mars is much easier than lifting of earth due to the low gravity, and the heaviest thing in a space craft is fuel, and you can create rocket fuel on Mars surface while carying minimum of chemicals that are not easly available/produceable on Mars.
There is no doubt that such project will cost billions of $ I'm sure I mentioned this, but anything related to owning own land and nation would cost as much, unless it is very small
Quote
Carbon dioxide sublimation
There is presently enough carbon dioxide (CO2) as ice in the Martian south pole and absorbed by regolith (soil) on Mars that, if sublimated to gas by a climate warming of only a few degrees, would increase the atmospheric pressure to 30 kilopascals (0.30 atm), comparable to the altitude of the peak of Mount Everest, where the atmospheric pressure is 33.7 kilopascals (0.333 atm). Although this would not be breathable by humans, it is above the Armstrong limit and would eliminate the present need for pressure suits. Phytoplankton can also convert dissolved CO2 into oxygen, which is important because Mars's low temperature will, by Henry's law, lead to a high ratio of dissolved CO2 to atmospheric CO2 in the flooded[clarification needed] northern basin.
There is presently enough carbon dioxide (CO2) as ice in the Martian south pole and absorbed by regolith (soil) on Mars that, if sublimated to gas by a climate warming of only a few degrees, would increase the atmospheric pressure to 30 kilopascals (0.30 atm), comparable to the altitude of the peak of Mount Everest, where the atmospheric pressure is 33.7 kilopascals (0.333 atm). Although this would not be breathable by humans, it is above the Armstrong limit and would eliminate the present need for pressure suits. Phytoplankton can also convert dissolved CO2 into oxygen, which is important because Mars's low temperature will, by Henry's law, lead to a high ratio of dissolved CO2 to atmospheric CO2 in the flooded[clarification needed] northern basin.
just warming the planet up a few degrees would make it's pressure same as Mt.Everest making us lose the space suits and walking around with only oxygen bags, something like scooba-diving without water
There are some global warming agents a million times more potent than carbon dioxide. It would take a few years if we use those compounds.
If we keep mining asteroids and bring it to mars perhaps in the future mars would develop a magnetic field again. Those asteroids contain mostly of irons and nickel that can make a magnetic field.
Lol, and Antarctica is also claimed anyway (by multiple micronations!): 
http://mw.micronation.org/wiki/Federated_States_of_Antarctica
http://mw.micronation.org/wiki/State_of_the_People_of_West_Antarctica
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Duchy_of_Westarctica
http://mw.micronation.org/wiki/Federated_States_of_Antarctica
http://mw.micronation.org/wiki/State_of_the_People_of_West_Antarctica
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Duchy_of_Westarctica
Many of these little known micro-nations exists only on paper. How many serious attempts were there? May be less than a dozen. The Principality of Sealand was a serious venture. Some of the projects, such as the Operation Atlantis and the Republic of Minerva failed miserably. Principality of Freedonia is more or less defunct now.
that is true hm
in the beginning we would probably have to use some communist-like society until we stabilise
well, that's a problem but people who agree to join will join on their own, no one will push them
not being able to leave would be a great motivation for survival too
lots of people would do it for the fame
Yeah, I think that's the best to start with. When the population and the colony have grown and they can start doing non-survival things it can go capitalistic or something.in the beginning we would probably have to use some communist-like society until we stabilise
well, that's a problem but people who agree to join will join on their own, no one will push them
not being able to leave would be a great motivation for survival too
lots of people would do it for the fame
People that does it for fame are usually not capable of seeing long term consequences of their actions, and they are not often willing to work hard for their survival either… So those are probably not the best candidates for this colonization project…
Damn... seems like we have some competition:
http://mw.micronation.org/wiki/Associate_State_of_Bir_Tawil
Lol, and Antarctica is also claimed anyway (by multiple micronations!): http://mw.micronation.org/wiki/Associate_State_of_Bir_Tawil
http://mw.micronation.org/wiki/Federated_States_of_Antarctica
http://mw.micronation.org/wiki/State_of_the_People_of_West_Antarctica
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Duchy_of_Westarctica
Damn... seems like we have some competition:
http://mw.micronation.org/wiki/Associate_State_of_Bir_Tawil
http://mw.micronation.org/wiki/Associate_State_of_Bir_Tawil
same as on earth, you don't work you don't get any money, simple as that
we would use bitcoins for food,water,other resources we would produce..
and yeah, I'm aware we crossed to the SF part, but it's interesting to see how it is actually possible altough very hard
we already have plenty of carbon dioxide
https://i.imgur.com/bkOUHmV.png
we just need to create some oxygen or make the athmosphere more earthlike by increasing it's temperature
altough, after what we've done on Earth, warming up the planet shouldn't be a problem
Yeah, but since they don't have the option to leave they would be trapped and forced to work for their survival. Which would basically mean slavery. And if someone brings lots of money from the earth, would they be freed from the burden of working? Wouldn't it be better to just demand that everyone works for a few hours each day to produce enough food for everyone?we would use bitcoins for food,water,other resources we would produce..
and yeah, I'm aware we crossed to the SF part, but it's interesting to see how it is actually possible altough very hard
we already have plenty of carbon dioxide
https://i.imgur.com/bkOUHmV.png
we just need to create some oxygen or make the athmosphere more earthlike by increasing it's temperature
altough, after what we've done on Earth, warming up the planet shouldn't be a problem
Yeah, but it's not that easy to release all that carbon dioxide...
that is true hm
in the beginning we would probably have to use some communist-like society until we stabilise
well, that's a problem but people who agree to join will join on their own, no one will push them
not being able to leave would be a great motivation for survival too
lots of people would do it for the fame
same as on earth, you don't work you don't get any money, simple as that
we would use bitcoins for food,water,other resources we would produce..
and yeah, I'm aware we crossed to the SF part, but it's interesting to see how it is actually possible altough very hard
we already have plenty of carbon dioxide
we just need to create some oxygen or make the athmosphere more earthlike by increasing it's temperature
altough, after what we've done on Earth, warming up the planet shouldn't be a problem
Yeah, but since they don't have the option to leave they would be trapped and forced to work for their survival. Which would basically mean slavery. And if someone brings lots of money from the earth, would they be freed from the burden of working? Wouldn't it be better to just demand that everyone works for a few hours each day to produce enough food for everyone?we would use bitcoins for food,water,other resources we would produce..
and yeah, I'm aware we crossed to the SF part, but it's interesting to see how it is actually possible altough very hard
we already have plenty of carbon dioxide
we just need to create some oxygen or make the athmosphere more earthlike by increasing it's temperature
altough, after what we've done on Earth, warming up the planet shouldn't be a problem
Yeah, but it's not that easy to release all that carbon dioxide...
why not?
if we become self sufficient we could still pay our workers in bitcoin and they would purchase stuff in bitcoin
we could still grow weed in greenhouses
besides we should start a project of terraformation on Mars, slowly but once it would be filled with oxygen
But what exactly would they buy with the bitcoins they earn? It's not that easy to trade with the earth. And those that don't earn enough, will they starve, with no other option to just leave and find something better?if we become self sufficient we could still pay our workers in bitcoin and they would purchase stuff in bitcoin
we could still grow weed in greenhouses
besides we should start a project of terraformation on Mars, slowly but once it would be filled with oxygen
And if they don't wanna work anymore, what happens then? Will we just kick them outside the base and let them die?
It also takes a very long time to terraform a planet. Extremely long time. It's also extremely expensive.
This whole project would cost very many billion dollars. And that is money that very few countries and companies can pay, and I'd guess they are not that interested in building a bitcoin paradise (with that delay) and keep it funded when the public has lost interest.
Sad to see the discussion drifting away to the dream zone.
The Bir Tawil nation is theoretically possible. If the Egypt and Sudan reaches an understanding about selling the disputed property, then it can be purchased by bitcoiners.
On the other hand, Antarctica should remain outside human interference according to the international treaties. There is no way on earth that the UN is allowing someone to settle there.
Yeah, but it's very unlikely that they would reach that agreement with todays situation. Also, then we'd have problems with water and food. And to keep the miners cold would be a problem.The Bir Tawil nation is theoretically possible. If the Egypt and Sudan reaches an understanding about selling the disputed property, then it can be purchased by bitcoiners.
On the other hand, Antarctica should remain outside human interference according to the international treaties. There is no way on earth that the UN is allowing someone to settle there.
I however, would also prefer to see Antarctica untouched.
UN would probably not accept it, but since military is illegal on Antarctica it would be very interesting to see what they would do!
same as on earth, you don't work you don't get any money, simple as that
we would use bitcoins for food,water,other resources we would produce..
and yeah, I'm aware we crossed to the SF part, but it's interesting to see how it is actually possible altough very hard
Quote
Carbon dioxide sublimation
There is presently enough carbon dioxide (CO2) as ice in the Martian south pole and absorbed by regolith (soil) on Mars that, if sublimated to gas by a climate warming of only a few degrees, would increase the atmospheric pressure to 30 kilopascals (0.30 atm), comparable to the altitude of the peak of Mount Everest, where the atmospheric pressure is 33.7 kilopascals (0.333 atm). Although this would not be breathable by humans, it is above the Armstrong limit and would eliminate the present need for pressure suits. Phytoplankton can also convert dissolved CO2 into oxygen, which is important because Mars's low temperature will, by Henry's law, lead to a high ratio of dissolved CO2 to atmospheric CO2 in the flooded[clarification needed] northern basin.
There is presently enough carbon dioxide (CO2) as ice in the Martian south pole and absorbed by regolith (soil) on Mars that, if sublimated to gas by a climate warming of only a few degrees, would increase the atmospheric pressure to 30 kilopascals (0.30 atm), comparable to the altitude of the peak of Mount Everest, where the atmospheric pressure is 33.7 kilopascals (0.333 atm). Although this would not be breathable by humans, it is above the Armstrong limit and would eliminate the present need for pressure suits. Phytoplankton can also convert dissolved CO2 into oxygen, which is important because Mars's low temperature will, by Henry's law, lead to a high ratio of dissolved CO2 to atmospheric CO2 in the flooded[clarification needed] northern basin.
just warming the planet up a few degrees would make it's pressure same as Mt.Everest making us lose the space suits and walking around with only oxygen bags, something like scooba-diving without water
we already have plenty of carbon dioxide
https://i.imgur.com/bkOUHmV.png
we just need to create some oxygen or make the athmosphere more earthlike by increasing it's temperature
altough, after what we've done on Earth, warming up the planet shouldn't be a problem
Quote
Carbon dioxide sublimation
There is presently enough carbon dioxide (CO2) as ice in the Martian south pole and absorbed by regolith (soil) on Mars that, if sublimated to gas by a climate warming of only a few degrees, would increase the atmospheric pressure to 30 kilopascals (0.30 atm), comparable to the altitude of the peak of Mount Everest, where the atmospheric pressure is 33.7 kilopascals (0.333 atm). Although this would not be breathable by humans, it is above the Armstrong limit and would eliminate the present need for pressure suits. Phytoplankton can also convert dissolved CO2 into oxygen, which is important because Mars's low temperature will, by Henry's law, lead to a high ratio of dissolved CO2 to atmospheric CO2 in the flooded[clarification needed] northern basin.
There is presently enough carbon dioxide (CO2) as ice in the Martian south pole and absorbed by regolith (soil) on Mars that, if sublimated to gas by a climate warming of only a few degrees, would increase the atmospheric pressure to 30 kilopascals (0.30 atm), comparable to the altitude of the peak of Mount Everest, where the atmospheric pressure is 33.7 kilopascals (0.333 atm). Although this would not be breathable by humans, it is above the Armstrong limit and would eliminate the present need for pressure suits. Phytoplankton can also convert dissolved CO2 into oxygen, which is important because Mars's low temperature will, by Henry's law, lead to a high ratio of dissolved CO2 to atmospheric CO2 in the flooded[clarification needed] northern basin.
just warming the planet up a few degrees would make it's pressure same as Mt.Everest making us lose the space suits and walking around with only oxygen bags, something like scooba-diving without water
Jump to: