Topic: Bir Tawil nation - page 5. (Read 6380 times)

-153°C is the minimum temperature registered on Mars, it doesn't mean it gets that cold everywhere, in the equater the trempreture is more earth like that you might think.

This was answered, Atmosphere when it comes to meteorites won't make much difference, earth attract more and gives more kinetic energy to the incoming meteorites, and since we observe Mars and had probes and orbiters around it there was way more meteorites that impacted earth than on Mars.

Copying your plan? I didn't even read it, but as you mentioned your plan has some issues, like  the soil on Artanctica is 4km deep and to how deep you think you need your base to be built under to be adiabatic? how much would it cost? as for Mars just use an available cave, or use a 3D printer if you don't want to dig to built your own habitat, this plan was presented 3 decades ago by Dr Robert Zubrin, he didn't just present Ideas, but a whole plan presenting everything, from risk to cost. so no not copying your plan.

Getting to Mars and getting the material needed to Mars is the biggest problem in the equation, while when it comes to Artanctica that's a none issue, yet why there isn't a permanent scientific station to this day? while scientist runs whenever it is winter, the scientific research there is of such importance, from meteorological studies and ozone hole studies to, underground sealed lakes like the Vostok and what's not, (btw scientist had to leave because of winter just at the edge of it !)

As for gravity it's not much lower it is indeed lower but we aren't talking about the moon here we are talking about Mars which has around 38% of earth Gravity, which is easily negated with the heavy space suites, Gravity would be a problem getting to Mars on zero gravity not being there in a lower gravity that you can negate the effect.

Like I said before building a an a floating Island in international water is the most possible and cheapest plan to do

Yeah, but then we'd have the problems with rough seas. Remember that the waves usually gets between 7-15 meters during storms, however, there have been waves reported as big as 30(!) meters. Good luck having a floating island that can resist that kind of waves.
If we place it in Antarctica we'd have protection from such, and we could have our perfect winter wonderland outside our door. Inside the island it would be kinda hot, preferably tropical climate, and outside we'd have a really cold, snowy landscape. We'd attract both tourists that wants a nice hot climate, and those who wants to go skiing. Win-win situation!
What Kiki112 said.

interesting idea, but large parts of Africa are filled with armed rebels and dictator goverments, not really safe to start a nation somwhere around there

what about the possibility of going to an uninhabited part of a 3rd world nation and starting fresh?

if we were to build a floating island why would we place it near Antarctica when we could place it in international waters with a much better climate?

Read my suggestion again. The nation would be build under ground. We'd have a closed ecosystem. The walls would be isolated. We'd be self-sufficient.

You can grow food on mars, and there is water there as well. But you'd still need energy to heat it up. Remember that it can be as cold as −153 °C during night times.
Earth may attract more meteorites than mars, but the martian atmosphere is a lot thiner than the earths.
And basically you're just copying my plan, but instead want to apply it on mars.
It would be much easier to build it on earth. Also, if we fuck up on our colony, we'll get help from the outside world. You won't.
Also, the gravity is much lower on Mars, and we don't know how the effects on the human body in such low gravity long term.

Yeah, I think they'd get pretty upset, but thanks to their own treaty, they can't do anything about it!
Another, 3rd option would be to build this floating island earlier mentioned, and place it in the unclaimed waters in Marie Byrd land, and solve the problems that rough seas brings.

it would really be interesting to see what would happen and how would other nations react to this

It is impossible, 6 month of night during polar winter at -70°C with nothing that can give you supply, you'll need a closed heated ecosystem to grow you own food which requires tons of energy

You can grow food on Mars and water is abundant on Mars and you can create a micro ecosystem CO2 is abundant in Mars plants will creat oxygene trough photosynthesis as there is abundant sunlight you just a green house to creat decent pressure, and yes you'll need space suite on Mars but you can creat oxygen being trough plants or water and air recycling and co2, as for meteorite, earth has more gravity and thus it is bound to attract more meteorites than Mars, also Atmosphere only burn small meteorites while for big ones it either makes them explode or split which is more devastating as for cosmic radiation is a non issue if the habitat is underground

I'm pretty sure it is.

The biggest problem would be where to place it. It'd have to be placed in an "Antarctic oasis", an area that's not covered with snow or ice. However, all of those "oases" I can find is placed in territory claimed by other nations. The other option would be to build it inside a mountain in unclaimed territory, but that'd be to destroy the antarctic nature + rock is not very fertile.
So, that leaves us with only one option, to build in claimed territory. However, since most countries in the world does not recognize any claims on antarctica that should not be a problem. The country that claims the area we'll build on will not be able to do anything either, since military operations are strictly forbidden.
Here's a list of possible places for this settlement: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctic_oasis#Geography

seems a bit too expensive

there isn't enough sunlight to produce a lot of electricity I think even the sun is there..

Yes, but six months of night also means six months of day.
Sure, during that 6 months night the solar panels will not produce any electricity, but thanks to the power buoys and wind turbines we might have enough anyway. We could also produce biogas to use if we don't produce enough with our renewable systems, since it is hard to store the excessive energy for a time as long as six months. It's always good to have a backup system.

that put solar panels out of the option

lol

is there enough wind for wind power?

also curious if there are parts which aren't frozen and unclaimed

it's not only -70° but 6 months nights and also blizzard no supply can reach you for over half a year and no infrastructure there

yeah, but low efficiency of the solar panels because of not so many sunny hours..

we would need a larger investment but it's worth it since we'll be saving a lot because we're not building our own island

@about Mars

let's stay realistic, food transfer would be too expensive, not mentioning other things + oxygen

Antarctica is not impossible at all.
Mars would not be impossible either, but it would be a lot harder.
Apart from getting materials to Mars, there would be problems with food and water supplies. And of course, we must not forget the problem with oxygen. And the risk of meteor crashes is much higher thanks to its thin atmosphere. Oh, the atmosphere would also be a big problem since it doesn't stop much of the cosmic radiation. So simply, it would be a LOT harder.
So, lets not mix apples and pears, shall we?

In the coldest place on Antarctica the average temperature is -55°C. The costal areas however is much warmer. During the winters the average temperatures is around −18 °C, while during the summers it's about 0°C, and sometimes even more.

Who would want to live there? Well, people who feels this is a cool concept and people who have no future in their current countries would probably at least consider it for example.

And no, we would not have to worry about miners overheating!

The electricity, as I've said earlier, we'll get from solar power, wind turbines and power buoys, and with the right amount of them they should be able to support us.

hmm

you made a point there

but it's Antarctica, it's -70C

who would want to live here?

altough, yeah, nice temperature so our miners don't overheat

but we'll have a hard time acquiring free electricity

That only applies to countries that has signed the treaty. Which we won't. Anyway, non of the nations have the right to deny our claim either. Also, if they disagree with our decision they can't do anything since according to the treaty, no military activity is allowed on Antarctica. I don't see what could possibly stop us? (except for money)

they will not allow us