Topic: BitClub Network: MLM promises, false testimonials and PoS coin - AVOID - page 7. (Read 62234 times)

Thanks for the legendary input

 

Sorry for that useless posting, but did anybody notice that the names J Ryan Conley and Joby Weeks are anagram to "Jey Ryans Weekly ConJob"?

I know the first "e" sucks a bit, but still funny. ^^


.edit:
Got a better anagram: "Yes, J Ryan! Weekly conjob!"
I know. I'm bored.

This is true.
The life of a ponzi is governed by many factors.
OMG, he used the Ponzi word again!
Just to refresh the memory a Ponzi Scheme is


That's a good enough working definition, although it implies that they are "all or nothing", but there's many shades of gray..

As Bernie Madoff showed, the "Front" is all important, it gives investors confidence and can actually make some money (not enough) in its own right.
A Ponzi doesn't have to be a complete fabrication, the more cred the better, leading to the classic "They've paid out for a long time, so they must be legit, and look they're trading/mining/doing stuff....."

With that in mind, the latest BitClub Network news


Let's deconstruct that wall of text.....

 

This is a faulty analysis as a look at actual numbers will show.
The halving wasn't a surprise, nor was the pre halving pump and "sell the event" followup.
Are they really asking their punters to believe that the dominant Chinese operators are running at a loss? The only miners losing money at today's prices are
a) mining with obsolete equipment
b) trying to service top heavy debt/commitments out of reduced income e.g. expensive power, expensive miner leases or a big fat MLM matrix that sucks the life out any profitability for their small investors (see vids of Founders on yachts, buying Bentleys etc.)


Hmmm, another way of putting that would be "new investments have collapsed, quick, think!"


Too much of the pool?....how about "Our early contracts are now getting dust like everyone else, so if we make a big deal about them being sacrificed for the common good, then we might be able to tempt in some newbies with a bit of ROI for a while. WE NEED SOME NEW MONEY ASAP. It's no real loss to them us, just that particular trough is empty".


Yeah, it's not like we're gonna actually lose anything much, just keep skimming off the top for ever and ever and ever.


Go back to? Errrr no. BCN have never paid anyone for 1,000 days.
They promised to, then they changed that to 600 days when it became clear that 1,000 was giving too much away to the wrong people (genuine investors). In MMM, this would be called a "reset".

If you bought in on say June 1st 2015, one of then BitClub Network promised (nothing in writing, of course) to pay you till 25th February 2018.
(their capslock)

In that example, you have been shafted for over half your "contract", 542 days stolen.
If you bought in just because you bought their spiel, fancied cloudmining some coin and didn't 'earn' any MLM commission (from ya grandma, neighbours etc.) and were less than Founder level, you are fucked.


600 day shares have only been going 244 days, earning dust ROI. Maybe someone who's locked in will think "Well, 400 extra days of dust is better than no dust at all. Not like I've got any choice...."
N.B.
Ya must remember not to keep using the word "shares". It sounds a lot like an investment contract to me. According to Weeks, you don't sell them, only mining equipment. 


But what happened to compulsory reinvestment?


So, you've been compulsorily deducted up to 50% to pay for upgrades, but "the machines are dead". Wot?


Lol, 10/10 for disingenuous.
Whatever happened to

? Or his legendary hardware trading deals, where he
?



...fuck off.

---

Back to the Ponzi definition:


That's what this is all about. New money. No-one already in is going to add more with virtually infinite ROI and no-one new new is going to touch it, (if they have the wits to ask for recent mining payment history proof).
The core "Founders" don't give a shit about mining income, the MLM residual is all they've ever been interested in.
Early genuine investors have just had a massive haircut. More like a decapitation, and there's nothing they can do about it.

Don't be so sure. They are actively mining blocks every day. There is no reason this scam can't continue as of yet, other than this thread IMO.

LOL 18months... yeah, they won't be around in 18 month for sure.

A mini update about the Genesis Mining tie up, with regard to this super trading bot  that is going to make everyone zillionaires.
When the Irish shill made his video promising but not promising 10% per month ROI (see above) he forgot to mention a small detail, helpfully provided by Thorsten Baldes, (yet another piece of EuroTrash that's washed up in Dubai [that's why they need all those mega buildings, somewhere to store the world's scammers])


An eighteen month lock in with no repayments.........

More details about other minor changes to the "mining" side of BCN to come when I've got time, like mass early termination of contracts.

#endgame.

Thanks for the link mate. It's an interesting summary of points that BitClub Network continue to avoid answering, but it's also brought a very important aspect of BCN out into the open thru the comments made.

BitClub don't operate in the U.S. (officially) and haven't done since May 1st this year.
The U.S. is a huge market for Bitcoin schemes and is totally addicted to MLM.
Many of BitClub's major movers and shakers hold American citizenship. But they have to scour the world for new suckers, as BCN does not authorize new members to join if they are obviously U.S. based. (This is easily circumvented and affiliate marketeers are passively encouraging prospects to do so by using overseas registration).
BitClub hint at the reasons for doing this in various member news updates


Why do you need to talk to lawyers if you're a legit business?


The cost to do business..... what cost? How is the origin of investor money in anyway a variable?
It could jeopardize everything.....how?

The answer is law.
You know, that fascist establishment control method that enslaves us all that people rant about. And then run to when they need protection.
I'm not going there with this, suffice to say there is a lot of validity in the expression "My enemy's enemy is my friend." (which cuts both ways.)
Anyhow, the law exists. If you break it, there are consequences.

There is a regulatory framework in the U.S. which governs investment, investment "advice".
It gives consumers basic rights of redress, as well as laying down rules by which anyone looking for money to finance their scheme has to abide.
There's probably thousand upon thousand of pages of sub clauses, precedents and guidelines in this area, but the very basic one regarding money changing hands in the hope of reward is called the Howey Test. It's a pretty simple working definition of what constitutes an "investment contract".
It basically defines it as

(i) the investment of money; (ii) in a common enterprise; (iii) with the expectation of profits to come solely from the efforts of others.

If you are doing that, then you are selling investment contracts. You are required, among other things, to provide

A description of the company's properties and business purpose
A description of the security being offered
Information about the company's management
Financial statements about the company, certified by independent accountants

Scammers hate this with a passion.
What does a scammer do when confronted with an obstacle such as the law? Squirm and turn, deny obvious facts and twist definitions, usually aided by aided by specialist niche lawyers who have a massive vested interest. Or bite the bullet, withdraw from that market and go look for victims in less regulated places?

That's why BitClub Network withdrew from the U.S.
To avoid giving basic information about who is behind it, or any consumer rights or protection to their investors, .

Also, when a scheme implodes, under certain circumstances a receiver can operate a "clawback", which involves taking illegally acquired profits from net gainers (usually upline affiliate marketers) and returning them to the vast majority who lost money, because of the illegal means by which it was taken.
This can run into hundreds of millions of dollars as seen in Zeek Rewards, another huge "passive income" scam, where net gainers thruout the world are being sued for their scam rewards.
U.S. based BitClub Network affiliate marketers would be in the frame for this.

In a recent series of court cases in Germany on this subject, BitClub Network's name pops up.
There is a law firm in Germany called Schulenbeg and Schenk. They are basically attack dogs for the OneCoin scam.
OneCoin has been making huge changes and separating its structure to avoid being seen as an "investment provider".
According to them now, they just sell "education packages" for thousands of euros and give away points that can be used to "practice" crypto trading and investment.
They then claim they are neither revenue sharing or selling investments.
This is transparently bullshit but may help them extend the life of this huge scam for a bit longer. In order to do that, they want to maximize income in the meantime and one way of doing that is to drop competing scams in the legal shit.
Enter S&S and this recent legal judgement in Hamburg, where they brought action against the Beonpush Ponzi
The tl,dr is that


also the Bitclub....

Still Awake?

WTF has this to do with the 99bitcons piece?
The answer is in the comments.
There are two (so far, just waiting for the brigading to start), the second one from some pseudo intellectual Aussie BCN pimp isn't even worth mentioning, but the first one from "Joby" is. Joby Weeks, perchance?

He makes big play of the huge txt fee "mistake" (wondered when they would use that) and how BitClub distributed it "benevolently", so they can't be scammers, can they?  

He waffles on and on, no facts, figures or anything, as he and other MLM salesmen do.
Hidden in his "we're misunderstood" spiel he tries twice to make the ludicrous claim

BitClub Network don't sell mining investments, they sell mining hardware.

Yup, that's what he said. Twice. For the reasons above.


So there you have it, BitClub Network investors. You're not investors at all. You have simply bought a piece of mining hardware. That you have never seen, touched or operated yourself.

Congrats.

this is my last tx from them.   noticed 2 sender addys*, but looks like they (of course) mix the coins ;/, tx's just go back and back dust loops. course im not a pro in btc analytics ;p
https://tradeblock.com/bitcoin/tx/b67f3dc83e8d7056b3fd8155dce76c4e74aee7b5bd1055ee12ad83d1886db373


*1ERAsjBQXMd2hx1JpKPxJfaUpBQv8KTiVh
*1PeMXzkiz1qQpWwNvpccgYp8SpuJAGjPNR


edit;  some one of their doge wallets DCPbGvoVJfhENVb8aUkBvZktHgZ4z5SXN6
                         DB5vZAu7i9nbNyxvfFPrs59GXUzH9rx4eh

again, look heavily mixed ;/

if anyone can post any btc addresses from Genesis , I would appreciate it. thanks!

o that's funny.    he also calls it "Bitcum Mining"   at 1:25   lmao

what a sham.


wow OP you have done your research, thx man for keeping us updated!  as a simple post history check can tell you, i am not a fan of Genesis Mining, and i tell you your THEORY FITS. the reduced payments, the refusal of techincal info on miners or pools... geeeez....
 i tell ya Satoshi gave us a double edge sword, it really brought out the professional scumbags  ;/

https://99bitcoins.com/anatomy-bitcoin-scam-bitclub-network-analyzed

That BitClub Network has collected a large amount of money, there is no doubt.
Unverified, self released claims of numbers of subscribers should be treated with the utmost skepticism (the OneCoin pyramid is laughably claimed to be currently over 2 million and rising exponentially), but it's fair to say that the MLM pitch of "getting involved in the Next Big Thing" and "passive income" has attracted a large number of get rich quick merchants, as well as professional pimps shilling for their affiliate commissions.
The combination of these lures + remorseless and built in encouragement to reinvest profit, makes BCN a Cash Cow.

Who's milking it?
Where does the cash go?
The vast majority percolates ever upward thru the pyramid to the elite level, the "Founders". These are serial MLM scheme promoters with a past of failed "opportunities" and a present of globe trotting activity, reflecting the lifestyle that the bottom of the pyramid aspires to.

Some of the raised funds go into the Front business, to show that "We are a real company, with a real product" when challenged.
BitClub Network has two mining pools, one in BTC and one in ETH, which do mine the respective coins. Shares in these activities are sold (illegally in the U.S. as an unregistered security, hence their official lack of activity there) and stats are available of the gross income.
This in itself, proves nothing about the ability of BCN to provide "passive income" in large enough amounts to satisfy investors from their only real income mining, but the large cash mountain they have built up can be used to top that up.
This is called a Ponzi Scheme if new investors money is being used, even partially, to repay commitments and returns to earlier subscribers.

Human nature being what it is, the Founder level affiliates will want to maximize the percentage of income that goes to them, and minimize the investment in the Front.

THE FRONT

BitClubPool is the front.
It mines, or has access to mining, at a healthy level of around 45 Ph/s atm and is discovering blocks at the rate of around 4 per day, giving a top line gross income of 50BTC.
This is obviously ~50% down on the pre halving gross, but even then investors were moaning about dust payments and belatedly realizing that moaning is all they could do, as there were no contractual terms whatsoever specifying a fixed return (just massive implied figures used in the hard sell) and no exit strategy apart from receiving the actual (obsolete) mining equipment based solely on BCN's valuation.
BitClub Network has no Terms and Conditions stated anywhere. Unusual practice for even a scam business.

Anyway I digress.
Where does the BitClubPool mining equipment come from?
There are two ways to gain access to any productive asset, purchase it or rent it.
For an asset holder, leasing out is very attractive because it offers a fixed income + probable upfront key money cash payment, as well as a pledgable security against finance to purchase further assets, which can be leased out and so on.
One such asset which would be idea for this would be a Bitcoin mining farm, essentially the theory behind cloud mining on a macro level.

So, when an MLM operation has had a successful launch and the capital is flowing in, the one thing Founders will want to do is Keep It.
They need to make the Front believable, but instead of setting up their own mining operation (a complex field in which none of them has any prior experience and draining the funds which they want to spend on Bentleys and toys), what would they do?
Rent it from an existing supplier.....
This becomes more likely when you look at the terminology in a recent BCN news update


These are rental terms, not capital.

So, the MLMer's go looking for a potential supplier, an existing tech savvy operation with a good reputation.

That existing tech savvy operation (hereafter TSO) would welcome a cash injection plus ongoing payments, enabling them to build their own business further.
The MLMers would be happy, no large capital outflow or overhead, just fixed payments serviced by new investor income.
As OneCoin pimps say, "Don't worry about the technicals, just keep selling."
 
Part of this deal would be that the TSO takes care of everything, including setting up a new mining pool and pointing the rented gear at it.
Job done.

This was pure speculation on my behalf, but as I read about Joby Weeks and Russ Medlin (BCN Founders) making wild claims about how BCN was going to expand and invest in cutting edge equipment, I thought it was strange for them to be making specific promises and claims which were easily disproved.
Part of the MO of MLM is to make claims believable, based on an indeterminate time frame and vague promises. But here they were, claiming specific mining upgrades which didn't happen.
I thought, "What if they're just passing on bullshit, optimistic claims from their suppliers of hashrate?"
BCN investors are hurting, no doubt not continuing downlines and minmizing re-investment because their "passive income" has reduced to virtually nothing, and they are having grave doubts.
BCN are saying to the TSO, "WTF happened to our %'s, our return custom and referrals are flatlining?"
What if the TSO is keeping the Founders happy, bullshitting  and promising 16nm gear because it may be coming to them and BCN are doing the same with their customers?

Who could the TSO be?
Who could be renting out their Icelandic Mining operation to BCN, allowing, as part of the deal, BCN banners to be draped over their racking and videos to be made, even visits for interested Pro/Master Builders (MLMspeak)?

The GENESIS MINING CONNEXION

Genesis Mining publically claim to have an Icelandic mining farm, amongst others. Both Genesis and BCN reference the Verne Global setup.
Genesis Mining give no details of their mining pools.
Genesis Mining, since Spondoolies bit the dust, give no details of what mining equipment they use.
Genesis Mining are getting heavy criticism for reducing cloudmining payments to dust.

Where and to whom would Genesis go to replace their Spondoolies scrap?
There aren't many choices of miner manufacturer, especially if you are seen as a competitor to operations controlled by the same company. Think Hashnest/Bitmain.
But there's Bitfury....the same Bitfury that Weeks claimed to be supplying BCN, the same Bitfury that may have been intending to market 16nm gear more widely until the TSMC chip manufacturing delay threw everything out the window. The same Bitfury that was promising Genesis first call on the new gear.....possibly?

What pool would they mine to?
They may split their hashrate, they may avoid Chinese pools because of vulnerability, they may set up a pool in third party's name..

Pure speculation of course, There's no public link between BitClub Network and Genesis Mining.
Or is there?



This screenshot comes from a Staged video, voiced over by an Irish MLM pimp Paul McCarthy, an erstwhile Banners Broker scam promoter.
It is on J Ryan Conley's channel. Conley is the serial MLM pimp of serial MLM pimps.
His auspicious MLM history includes:

Isagenix, Viewtrakr, Staged, Buzztrakr, Kannaway, Brain Abundance, Ingreso Cybernetico, Wake Up Now, YOBSN, Jeunesse, IQKonnect, TSU, Elevate Solar, Solavei, OneCoin, MMM Global, BitClub Network and Future Net.
Plus Steemit, just started.


You don't just walk up to an existing company and say "Hey, got any good trading bots I can promote and pay you $millions for out of my downline's money?"
You would most likely have an existing relationship, like that with the TSO mentioned above. Money is the pure motivator here, and each company gets what they want.
Genesis get regular income plus upfront lump sum for their hashrate and BitClub Network get a plausible Front at low capital cost.
Same with this bot project.
As usual, BitClub Network investors pick up the tab, providing capital with no protection or guaranteed returns; that small % of the capital that doesn't get swallowed up by the parasitical Pyramid commission structure.

Marco Kron is Chief Finance Officer of Genesis Mining.
Marco Kron is quite happy to chat with Conley on YT about his bot brainchild. The CFO of a supposedly respectable operation doesn't just go on camera with some stranger.



Anyway, I'll have a look at this "Arbitrage" front running trading bot proposal later, with its $25k "passive income" opportunity (offering, but not guaranteeing 10% a month, remind you of anything?), but for the moment I'd say that all indications are that Genesis and BitClub Network are old pals.
From the mining industry.

Note: I could hammer various references herein with relevant proof/links, but wanted to give an overview. Also many links come from scammer's websites and I don't want to give them extra traffic. Anyone requiring context, please ask.

Minor edits for gramma.

 






 

Imitiation is the greatest form of flattery they say, and there's MLM/Cyptocurrencies crawling out of the woodwork these days, so it's not a surprise to see



turn up, word for word here


The "Academy" bit refers to another hot MLM scam favorite, that of selling an education package of useless, plagiarised cut and paste with some motivational memes thrown in.



Most blatant at this is OneCoin, a figment of Bulgarian Mobsters' imagination, which was the "coin" of choice of many of the BitClub Networkers before they realized it was too absurd even for them.

BCA is run by Mike Lavoie and Todd Hirsch.
Lavoie is the man behind SkyCoinlab (does it mine? doesn't it mine? No,it doesn't) in Canada and also Bitcoin Cycler. Hirsch just pumps any old crap.

So, the moral is, in the MLM world there's shitty scams and copies of shitty scams, take your pick.

---

Checking to see that the "team of" quote was word for word, I also noticed BCN's old


Well, I guess that's true, but a slight abuse of "one of" as a description of an outfit that's bumping along around 2% of network hash.

This is the pool that BCN 'miners' are paid out of, and BCN's sole source of income apart from new investors' money. Looking at Bitcoin, how are they doing with their quest to be?

So, let's accept that they are mining, probably with some Bitfury product and S7's as Weeks, their self appointed spokesman and negotiator with suppliers, maintains.
Trouble is with Weeks, you can't exactly trust what comes out of his mouth.
Not saying he's a liar, but...

Anyway, I get the feeling that BitClubNetwork were hoping to buy some of Bitfury's 16nm machines. Weeks mouthed off to the effect that they already had, but then he has pretty zero cred and it's commonplace in the MLM industry to be shouting about "Exciting times ahead".

On March 1st, Punin from Bitfury confirmed that BCN were customers, a pretty easy conclusion to come to by looking at the pool references.
Punin was confident too, to the extent of having a bet on the imminent availability of these chips, then..........

It all went dark. Possibly blamed on damage to the chip manufacturer's plant in Taiwan, TSMC predicted at least a 50 day delay in delivery, knocking back Bitfury's projected 1st April (how apt) to late May.
And now Weeks is palming off disgruntled customers with "September". Already ROI's have been slashed to nothing and the only thing good going for BCN is the $100 rise in the price, but their outgoings against contract are priced in BTC so that's of limited help to a hugely top heavy overhead structure.

An interesting screenshot this morning shows Bitfury completely absent from pool data and BCN having a little increase, which seems to indicate some symbiosis between the two.



Both Spondoolies and KNC have recently gone to the wall attempting to compete with the Chinese. Anyone who thinks that Bitfury are invulnerable because what? to the same fate is probably drinking the wrong Koolaid.
Probably Weeks piss flavored KoolAid, because the halving's only a month away and it looks like he's backed the wrong horse.

Crunchtime.

Ermagerd! Paycoin Flashback!

And it's time for an update for the Numero Uno Crowd Funded Cloud Mining MLM Network in the World ^tm

There are three aspects to this operation, they would have you believe

1) BitClubPool mining and "passive income"
2) ClubCoin, the PoS offshoot
3) Merchant platform for ClubCoin.

1) ain't looking too clever. Any cloudmining outfit will be making ROI payments to its investors, based on their profitability/shared by the number of stakeholders.
BCPool have mined 785 blocks in the near year they've been going. Take out around 130 as mined by third parties (not BitClub Network) and average out the price and you get best part of $5,000,000 gross income. Big Number.
Depending on who you believe in an environment where "no-one" is the sensible answer, the net profit on that after regular overhead and electricity, could be anywhere between $1m and $2.5m, still a chunk of change.
So yeah, BCPool makes a net operating profit, that's a reasonable assumption.
But then it's got to be shared out.
There are two main places for that money to go, to the "miners" as ROI and to the networkers as commission. The more miners recruited by networkers, the more those two demands grow. If a stage is reached where those commitments exceed the income, then the only way those payments can continue is
A) Reducing the ROI to the basic investors
B) Paying out from another source, other than mining income. There are no others, apart from new investors lump sums coming in. When you use that money to make up the difference to service existing commitments, you become a Ponzi.
C) Both.

The way to avoid that is obviously not to just keep selling and selling and selling "mining" contracts beyond a level serviceable by your operating profit.
MLM operations are sales driven. Google "BitclubNetwork" and you will find everyone and their uncle sell, sell, selling mining contracts on hundreds of different websites, social media platforms, webinars and seminars.
At the moment, Master Builder Abel, self elected BCN public spokesman Weeks and many others are hitting Asia for all its worth.
If their numbers are to be believed, ONE seminar in Seoul recently attracted 6,000! potential suckers investors.
These guys have energy and drive, give them that.
Every sign on the line is $$$ for ever (how long it lasts) direct to them personally. (See previous posts for the ratio between mining income and referral income for these salesmen. Part of the game is to buy the biggest packages in order to access bigger and bigger downline building opportunities. The $3500 max mining entry ticket is peanuts, and so is the relative income from mining.)

Anyway, you know this probably.
More investors, more ROI to pay, more referrals to pay.
That's OK, just so long as the income from mining keeps pace.
OOPS.

 

That's BitClubPool's hashrate stats for the last six months. An increase at the beginning of the year on the back of their big marketing push to keep pace (just) with the general arms race increase, but compare it now with the total network hashrate....



Combination of the two, ever increasing contract sales+declining mining earnings=dilution=very unhappy investors



MLM operations, especially bad actors, keep everything "in house", usually communicating directly thru dashboards. There is also a vested interest on the side of the investor not to rock the boat, because most realize that these things can snowball pretty damn quick and create a situation which is what they are personally trying to avoid. The equivalent to a run on the bank: they are only too aware their investment asset is only worth something while the doors stay open.

Weeks is quick to jump in (just an aside, Weeks, Abel and many others are U.S. citizens, it must be strange for them travelling the world first class selling something that can't be bought in their home country...) anyway Weeks comes up with the classic, "Be patient, great things happening soon"
line


September?
Errr, Joby, heard of a thing called the Halving? I'm sure your pretty meagre income is going to be probably slashed in half before September.
Well, not your personal income. That's based on what you sell, not what it earns...

I wonder what happened to



and what he's doing with them because, as sure as f*ck, he's not mining with them.


Nearly there....

---

So, onto
2)ClubCoin, the PoS offshoot

Not a lot happening that is immediately visible. Github is dead, as is their promising da Moon thread on here. The devs haven't even logged in for a couple of months. Maybe they and the rest of the Oompah Loompahs are too busy in the Chocolate Factory.

Doesn't look to healthy pricewise either, flatlining around 20c with no volume



and even at that price proving very hard and frustrating to dump.
Cue more unhappy punters...

---

3) Merchant platform for ClubCoin.

Even quieter on this leg of the BitClub Network Master Plan.
Despite being floating as the Next Big Thing as long ago as November 2015, nada, zilch, nothing.
Apart from Mr. Rent-A-Quote Weeks that is


OK.


Edited to include KNC bankruptcy-because-of-the-halving link.

 

Scammers.... 

http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-foundation-donation-mining-pool/

He could look at the rapist testimonial, there seems to be no doubt that BitClub Network is a scam.

" if you don't spend all your BTC in the transaction any leftovers are considered a miners fee. "
ahh see that i was unaware of, likely what happened.
dank, is all i can say

The pool can choose which transactions to include or work on, based on fee's, which based on that transaction I bet every pool would have included that transaction in their work.

From the past a large amount of the transaction that included huge fees were users using API's which did not work properly or that they signed the transaction themselves without providing a change address, if you don't spend all your BTC in the transaction any leftovers are considered a miners fee.

Some people might either not realize they sent it if it was done automatically, or as BTC is irreversible may have said to themselves "Well I screwed up it was my fault, I probably won't get it back so no use crying about it".