Topic: BitClub Network: MLM promises, false testimonials and PoS coin - AVOID - page 8. (Read 62235 times)

right? a way to make them look legit, so they sent the tx?
cause i mean WHO WOULDN'T claim it back from a pool?
these guys are so shifty i wouldn't put it past them
is there any way to guarantee your pool recieves a tx?
like can u choose what block or merkle hash to include the tx in, and one that your pool is mining?
no hey? ;p

I wonder if this publicity is worth more than 300 btc?

Our friends at BCN are in the news.
They were the accidental recipients, so the story goes, of the biggest mining fee ever paid, 291.2409BTC to send 0.0001..... 

This was reported with varying degrees of similarity by Coindesk, Gizmodo, motherboard@vice and probably others.

The story was essentially the same, this transaction



ended up with $136,000 worth of coin in Bitclub Network's hands. Being the good guys they are, they are saying that they will send it back, although this may be a little difficult, as pointed out here.


I suppose it's not uncommon for people to press the wrong buttons when sending money. How often it is returned is anyone's guess, although under these circumstances it would be impossible to conceal or justify keeping it.

I remember another "cloud mining" company returning money accidentally oversent, although not quite the same situation. Cloudmining.website returned 20 BTC sent in error, I remember. They're still EXECUTING THEIR MODEL too.

A few quotes from the latest BitClub Network members update:


The bolded part makes no sense. How is there any difference whatsoever in the cost of servicing a US based contract and a non US based one? Lawyers?

The italicized bit, even less so. They are either running a profitable mining operation or not.



This confirms for me that their withdrawal from the US is down to some sort of regulatory intervention. Maybe along the lines of "Stop taking new punters until we decide what to do about you."


This is to reinforce the idea that they are selling hardware and hosting it, not unregistered securities.
Virtually none of the 'investors' that I have looked at show any signs of being interested in anything but BCN's great MLM selling point, "passive" income. Setting up a piece of unspecified ASIC in your basement does not qualify as passive. That would be like asking the Avon Lady to start making lipstick in her bath.


The stats of BitClubPool rougly confirm the mining figures but, according to references, about 20 of those blocks were mined by third party miners because zero fees (and, in the past, block finding bounty), so no benefit to BCN members from those. That's only ~$200,000 difference, chump change.
What is unconfirmed is
1) any blockchain connection between newly mined BCP coins and BCN payments.
2) any proof of an overhead structure <$40/kW.
Fwiw, Genesis commented a while back on the cost of running an Iceland based mining operation. Allowing for change in difficulty, the figure Streng quoted then of ~$188 cost per bitcoin mined is now in the region of $250 per coin. BCN's figures imply their total costs are ~$105 per coin mined, which is less than Genesis' overhead without electricity...


"We are not a Ponzi".
So, all mining income is disbursed between mining contracts and referral pimps. The "amazing" bit is that statement, the implication that not only can they pay very impressive roi and huge matrix commissions, they can also make a re-investable profit by selling old ASICs and buying new. This is presumably linked to Weeks' statement that Yoshi (Bitmain) sells S7's to BCN for "$100".


Look forward to them....

Dang tmfp, that is some great research here !
I have been warning about Bitclub on my website (http://investbitcoinguide.com/scam-alert-the-bitclub-network/) but I'm not as good as you to deeply analyse those scams. Bitclub is notably very interesting and dangerous as it could be very tempting for beginners who try to enter the "Bitcoin land".
Great job !

Shame? I don't think he knows the definition of that word.

Are you really shocked that a convicted felon who vouched for Gox when they were broke would lie in bed with scumbags?

Strange happenings over at our favorite "crowdfunded" MLM BitClub Network, maybe it's a delayed April Fools joke.

First of all, their loudest shill J Ryan Conley puts together a barely comprehensible vid announcing that


(He's already been told by his boss Joby Weeks to 'stop promoting MMM Global alongside BitClub dude', but it doesn't appear to have had any effect).

Why, if true, should that be? And only in the USA?
The obvious answer is that it's a very tried and tested motivational tool to get people to do something: simply by telling them that they won't be able to soon. So maybe that. But that would be only logical globally.
Of course, a legit business with shareholder funding would set a cap on the capital size to stop dilution...again, would only apply if all further investment was capped, not just one country.

The possibility that remains is that, despite the small print and despite Weeks' pretence that when you send BCN money you are actually buying hardware, not a security, that a regulatory body in the US has looked at the BitClub Network model and thinks that it, just might, resemble an unlicenced security sale.
The MLM industry runs into regulatory problems all the time in the US. When Ponzis funded this way collapse, a receiver is appointed and claws back investors money from the admins and returns it to the victims. Leading admin figures are also prosecuted.
This is happening to the tune of $300 million at the moment in the case of Zeek Rewards, an MLM Ponzi that was pumped by the leading figures now behind BitClub Network, before it crashed in flames.

We shall soon see.

The other strange happening is in the mining department.
Since Weeks and punin from BitFury disagreed rather basically about exactly what BitFury equipment was being used by BCN, especially in the 16nm chip world, BitFury's hashpower has gone into sharp decline, whereas BCN's has increased and BitClubPool had some good luck recently.

It was therefore a bit of a surprise to see this today, on BCPool's stats page...
BTC Hashrate: 0 GH/s

 

I'm sure it's just a maintenance thing and will be fine in the morning....BitClub Network couldn't just disappear overnight, could it?...............I mean, could it?

Thanks, I just did so.

You might want to share that with PPOC .

Dodnt even go for the Public mining pool either, they steel the mined BTC.
They owe me payout around 2 BTC for 2 days mining and I have tried to contact them many times and got NO response what so ever.
The frankly just stole my hash for 2 days.

Scammer network with a scammer public pool.

I think it's the sign of a good salesman that they have the ability/gift to believe their own pitch and come across as sincere, and the best are undoubtedly charismatic. In the end however, hyperbole is just hyperbole.

My view is that the leeching effect of the MLM structure makes BCN investment

1) unattractive for mining returns only, without any referral add ons. Weeks may say that all mined Bitcoins are paid out to members, but the proportion of that which goes to the top of the pyramid in referrals leaves a cash daily return on purely mining at about 0.1%.

2) highly vulnerable when their grand investment plans are scuppered, if their reduction in income because of the halving isn't compensated for by a doubling in the BTC price. Where exactly is the $17m coming from if current income is already fully allocated, essentially servicing existing debt?

3) high risk, because of lack of exit strategy. The mandatory reinvestment is of no value unless expansion continues exponentially. Future shares only have a value whilst they can be serviced by cash returns. The only 'value' in a share is the clause which allows investors to physically claim an ASIC, the type of which is solely dictated by BCN. What is John Doe going to do with a parcel of unprofitable mining equipment?

4) dependent on non core schemes like Clubcoin, ATM's, merchant platform succeeding quickly. There is no sign that BCN have the ability to pull this off. Hyperbole, "Great things in the pipeline", classic MLM stuff.

Overall, it looks to me like a poor value bet on the assumption that the BTC price continues to rise, with most of the interim mining income leaving the scheme and going into the wallets of Weeks & co.

To quote a happy fan


Sums it up for me.

I hear you. I was just giving you my honest impression. Again, after having read the thread here, the whole thing smells even more fishy to me. But I still give Joby the benefit of the doubt. Again, I might be naive, but he seemed genuinely enthusiastic about it and maybe honestly mistaken himself. We will see.

Charisma? Odd way to spell, "bullshit promises of easy riches".

No, he does not know it for sure. He has not looked in depth into Bitclub. I was there in Acapulco when he was talking to Joby, who seems to be a very nice and cool guy who truly believes in what he says. I had never heard of Joby before, but it was my honest impression when I met him. Roger is sceptical and would not encourage anyone putting money in it, but he is too honest to call it a scam before being 100% sure.
So am I, I`m here to do in depth research on that project, because I also don`t think it can work and I`ve told Joby so, but he has charisma that makes you doubt (and I might be naive, but I still think it is possible he actually believes it).

Fuck me. The depths some people will stoop to.

Shame on Roger Ver! He knows damn well he's talking to scammers, but simply because they have a no-fee mining pool that draws miners to it he wants to throw a little, "Maybe I was wrong about you", solely to buy support for his bitcoin-version of choice.

Just. Fuck. SMH.

[edit] I've just emailed Coindesk about this. Hopefully they'll run a piece on this, erm, 'piece'.

Got a reply back from punin, Bitfury's Head of Product Development, regarding Weeks' claims about mining with 16nm chips


Also Roger Ver has decided that, in the big battles, you need all the "friend" you can get. This is what Bitcoin is all about, integrity. lol....bro.

Hey, thanks for that.

So, what's going on?
As I outlined in the last post, a BitClub Network promoter called J. Ryan Conley has been plastering social media with posts highly insinuating that he and Roger Ver are best buddies and that, by extension, Roger is a BCN fan.
Roger has got pissed about the use of his name like this, and made it clear that he has severe misgivings about BCN, its business plan and its ability to service its ongoing commitment to pay the investors in its mining operation, especially because of the cost of maintaining the MLM matrix referral structure.
MLM's are pyramids, structured so that money flows to the top, in BCN's case to the "Founders" who buy $3500 deals, not for the small residual Bitcoin mining payments, but for the matrix commission structure and its 'legs', which mean ongoing payments to them from their downline.

So, who is Joby Weeks?

According to Google, Weeks has self described in many ways:

'a nutraceutical wellness consultant'
'lifestyle coach'
'avid adventurer, world traveler, social entreprenuer sic, author and libertarian political activist!'
'millionaire'

in the audio, he says he is also an earlyish adopter of Bitcoin, but more of that later.

He 'lives outside the box', leads what used to be described as a "jetset" lifestyle and posts pics of himself in hot tubs on Richard Branson's rental island, stuff like that.
This is Joby Weeks (you may recognize the other person, more of that later)



and this is J. Ryan Conley



Mr. Weeks claim to have "been promoting bitcoin for three years" bears inspection. For someone as adept at "blowing their own trumpet" as Weeks is, there is no trace of anything on any of his social media to verify that. Until his 2015 BitClub involvment....nothing, nada, zilch.
His only Bitcoin tweet is one doing exactly what Conley has been doing, dragging Roger Ver into his name dropping circle.



Weeks rose to prominence in 2008 as


 
Mannatech is worth a Google if you want more laughs.

At that time, the time of Ron Paul's Presidential campaign, Weeks also set up RonPaulLimo.com and piggybacked on that, MyRonPaulRewards.com.



The above is taken from Ron Paul's dailypaul site after originally being posted by Jeff Rense. Make of it what you will.
http://archive.dailypaul.com/25719#comment-828039


Anyway, Google Joby Weeks yourself to get a flavor of the man.

---

Parsing the conversation linked above, the relevant bit starts around 43.40.

Straight in, Weeks sets his tone, loud, laughing and disingenuous.
He apologises for his 'friend' Conley, over whom he has no control, for #ing Ver (just like Weeks does himself), even tho Conley was "Roger and I"ing in text.
Weeks refers to it laughingly as "harassing", a common misattribution technique: to ridicule by exaggeration.

He name drops ferociously, a "founder of Google" (who knew nothing about bitcoin until enlightened by Weeks?) , "throwing a million dollars", 30 day cruises etc. Weeks is the Real Deal.
He refers to The "Inside Bitcoin" Seoul schmooze that "we sponsored". Well they did, the tote bags anyway.
Oh, and he hasn't seen any of the YouTube vids that link BCN to Ver and just about anyone else with a pulse and a name.

Weeks also makes it clear from the get go that BitClub Network wouldn't be, without him. It's all "I" and "we". There is no indication of Weeks' position within BCN, their site makes a big play of no bosses, no main man


The next bit is important.
It is important because regulatory authorities like the SEC (boo hiss) do NOT like people selling unregistered securities.
Also, MLM regs make it very clear that in order to be legal, the product must be the reason for the existence of the MLM, not the matrix structure itself.

Weeks gets his denial in straight away.
BCN are not selling "securities", i.e. a financial proposition, they are selling a product: physical bitcoin mining machines. The spiel goes that when you give BCN $500 or whatever, you are buying an ASIC, not an investment product. In their small print, they do offer the choice of taking delivery of your very own ASIC at any time, to maintain this fallacy.
As Weeks himself states, 99% of BCN investors have no prior knowledge of Bitcoin, so it would be safe to assume that the take up rate on having your ASIC disconnected and shipped from Iceland is vanishingly small.

(Around this time of the chat, naughty boy Conley is commenting online "Just to clarify, BitClub Network is not a scam." Thanks for that JR)

Weeks is off and running now.
At 51.19 he reveals that
"I've got the new (Bitfury) 16nm tech chips". Later he states "BCN are the only people in the world with Bitfury chips, buying all they can produce." I'll have to ask punin about that, because it flatly contradicts what Bitfury are saying.

He goes on, comparing BCN with Visa, bringing up his unprovable "promoting Bitcoin for three years" assertion and making it clear his vision is of an army (uses that several times) of Bitcoin/BCN promoters quitting their day jobs (Classic MLM dream) as Bitcoin goes to $10,000. See you in the hot tub, guys.

He then refers to BCN investors as shareholders (previously insisting they are miners) and when pressed about ROI, immediately cites a for instance which is optimistic by a factor of at least 2. $500 contracts do not return $4 per day, split 50/50, it's less than $1.


Yup, he said it.

At 56.00 he reveals


another one that I'll have to ask punin about.
Then it's magnetic motors, mining on ships, more "shareholders" in 80 countries and I even get a h/t reference along the lines of

(See my early posts).

More bad math, 330 blocks mined = "$4m". That's an average price of $484.

Back to another Bitfury reference, he's buying $17million of Bitfury containers at $3m a piece and pays Bitmain $100 for an S7....

And that's about it really, some guy comes on at the end and says he's getting 8-15% ROI on his $3500 "Founders" mining deal, which is about right.
Weeks had blustered and talked over people, standard MLM salesman.
Job done, all off for tequila slammers and mega schmoozing.
Weeks will be signing up left, right and center no doubt, among the PUA's and other cutting edge folk in the hot tub, JR will be round the back signing up the maids and chauffeurs.
Dream Team.

Minor grammar edits.

You might be interested in this:

"As we come live from Anarchapulco Roger Ver and Joby Weeks face off on Bitclub."

https://soundcloud.com/heryptohow/roger-ver-vs-joby-weeks-sasha-daygame-juan-galt-jeff-berwick

A traditional way of promoting something is "success by association".
 
It's tried and tested and, like most things, has its roots in a valid idea, that may involve endorsement of the product or service by a successful, well known person.
But it gets bent out of shape in social media these days, where a story about a global figure, or even just an image of them, is attached to the product that is being promoted without any real world association between the two.

It's especially common in BitClub Network's social media shilling and even more especially in the feeds originating from J Ryan Conley, a BCN "founder" and seasoned MLM pumper with a record as long as your arm (last stop Onecoin).

Stories about Bill Gates, Richard Branson, Starbucks etc. are tagged with one liners so that the average BCN social media follower associates these mega names with the BitClub Network that they gave their money to, and reinforces the hype they also bought which implies than BCN is the only real way into Bitcoin. Which of course, it isn't.
But what BCN offer the man in the street is not just a lousy investment, it's help with setting up a wallet (for a commission of course) and being made to feel part of a community. Hence the "down with the hood" image that our Ryan beats to death with a stick. Subtle, he ain't, but a professional promoter he is.

Anyway, so he name drops like hell: "success by association".

Now, I know that Roger Ver may not be the most popular person around here for various reasons, but he is a big name in Bitcoinland, so J Ryan decided to up his cred a bit more and imply that the Bitcoin Jesus is a pal of his....

 


Mr. Ver, he not impressed.




J Ryan obviously got a slap up the side of the head from other members of the BCN Dirty Dozen, because a half hearted apology was soon on social media (but I bet he had his fingers crossed behind his back)



Apart from the crazed garbage about dominating shit, it's interesting that he tags #bitfury on the original post. The hashtag leads to a disused facebook page with a picture of super CEO Val.
https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/bitfury
(The tag line on the year old pic is funny... "We're Not a Bitcoin ‪‎Mining‬ Company".)

But what is slightly more interesting is, why would JR tag Bitfury? Why for that matter, would BitClub's mining pool have expanded recently by about 10 P/hs with the reference 'bitclubfury'?
Especially when they've been buying S7's....