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Topic: Bitcoin: The Digital Kill Switch - page 6. (Read 55236 times)

hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 521
June 21, 2013, 11:46:42 AM
I was challenged again and rebutted again. See link in prior post for link to discussion.

============

Andao, did you ignore that I specifically said I am looking for evidence not comparing what is NOW, but the trajectory of where we are going in the FUTURE?

My main point of evidence is that in the West we can act as if we are free and most believe they are, but we are being secretly recorded, as proved by the recent infocalypse revealed by Edward Snowden (with numerous others providing similar leaks since 2001).

Whereas in China, the people know very well they are not entirely free, and they know they are being blocked and recorded.

The other evidence I offered is the fact that the West can not have unsocialized debts defaultss without destroying the retirement of the majority of the voters. Whereas, China can. Thus the West can not move away from socialism, China can. Thus the West is lying to itself about moving towards socialism, and China is not lying about moving away from socialism.

The opposing trajectories over the past 3 decades are clear and accelerating. China has opened from 100% totalitarianism to 50+% capitalism. The West has slid from capitalism to socialism and fascism underneath, and only capitalism on the face. Does ZIRP, bail-ins, significant proportion on the population on government support, union control of Europe, etc. not sufficient evidence for you?

I am rushed now, if you want to rebut, I can try to compose a stronger counter argument next time.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 521
June 19, 2013, 01:36:06 PM
I was challenged, and I rebutted as follows.

http://www.mpettis.com/2013/06/10/how-much-investment-is-optimal/#comment-23978

I am writing from the perspective of social capital & trajectory, since I am projecting the future.

When the rule of law is itself corrupted by the demands of boomers to maintain what can't be maintained, thus handing control of the government to the bankers who will never write-down the capital stock, then the rule of law is an illusion that is already rotten inside and waiting for the Minsky moment.

Whereas, China's people are becoming increasingly vocal about corruption and their actions are increasingly capitalistic. I was told by a Chinese recently that it is perfectly okay to criticize the government, just don't organize into groups when doing so. The only practical limit is to not challenge the actual authority by organizing. Whereas in the West, it is becoming increasingly politically incorrect to criticize the government. In the USA, there are even laws and Homeland security policies that characterize a person as a terrorist if they belong to certain ideologies.

China is liberalizing their financial door slowly, while the West is closing it, now with capital controls increasing.

Absolutely not, the Chinese criticize socialism and praise capitalism. Whereas, Westerners criticize capitalism (Obama!, ZIRP, bailins, etc) and embrace socialism.

I can't imagine how you could be so blind. Oh wait, yes I can. You are Westerner, so you believe this propaganda you've been fed about your social capital being superior to China.

No you've gotten it backwards. Not having welfare in place, means the free market and private capital is more free to invest and innovate. Two more phenomenal decades of this private enterprise will provide the funding for the social programs China needs 20 years from now.

Chinese readily subvert the censorship on the internet, using varied techniques such as misusing words so their meaning is obscured. A few VPNs of input, can be spread out by forum posts and word-of-mouth.

I didn't say China has better respect for privacy NOW, I said that their control is not opaque and the citizens are not living in a fantasy world believing they have privacy. Thus they've been having a dialogue about it, and are well along the way towards being ready to dismantled it when the Minsky moment comes. Whereas the West is in denial thinking they are good, but actually rotten to the core of their social capital needs. And when the Minsky moment comes, the West is going devolve into what it really is behind the curtain.

How much you want to bet that the USA public eventually forgets the recent NSA infocalypse, and the behind-the-curtain abuses increase? Whereas, the Chinese are not going to forget until they obtain the freedom to capitalize freely.
newbie
Activity: 10
Merit: 0
June 18, 2013, 02:09:21 PM

There's also the question if it's worth to start mining it in outer space…

Solar powered bitcoin
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 521
June 18, 2013, 02:04:34 PM
Just sent this out for publishing on the internet. You should find it by searching the title "Asia Rising, West Declining" with Google within a day or so.

Asia Rising, West Declining

Asia will lead out of the coming global economic collapse because the Heritage Foundation data states the government spending as a percentage of the economy is significantly lower than in the West.

http://www.heritage.org/index/explore

Latin America's low government spending population is (sans Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, and Venezuela) only 320 million-- much smaller than Asia's.

Thus despite rampant oligarchy collusion with government (e.g. Chinese SOEs, Korean Chaebols), the Asian population is not addicted to government spending. This is critical because we have to consider the different ways societies can adjust to a debt and misallocation crisis.

Societies which have nearing retirement age bulges in their population pyramids and thus high levels of social spending, are not able to write-down the capital stock and reallocate it to more efficient users. Instead of quickly defaulting on the political owners (the lenders) and the synergistic political majority boomer parasites, such decaying societies must do austerity on the youth (see high youth unemployment in southern Europe) and confiscate (ZIRP and "bail-ins") from the savers. At the bottom, this failed direction rations the retirements. Armstrong's (and my) 78 year cycle model says the West bottoms 2033 which is 26 years after the decline began in 2007, i.e. a lost generation. Japan is the perennial example, with Europe and the U.S.A. following on cue. These vested interests (lenders and boomers) throw support to all draconian measures which can maintain this stasis. Some examples include the G20 starting to call for hunting down wealth globally, France imposing wealth taxes and capital controls, and the NSA saving all communications so as to know where all wealth is being hidden (terrorists know how to use encryption and Tor, most savers don't). Note Japan's lost generation is almost complete and is nearing the final capitulation and bottoming phase.

Whereas, societies which are not burdened by this vested interest addicted to government spending, can "throw the bums out" and default on the lenders, to get capital flowing again to the efficient private sector.

The developing world (sans China) is becoming short the dollar with dollar bond issues and loans flooding fixed capital speculation and misallocation, thus will have a liquidity crisis when the dollar strengthens as the wheels fall off of Europe first and export (goods and services) income caters. China also has huge debts and imbalances as documented by Michael Pettis et al. Yet what remains after this coming chaos, is Asia a place of relative freedom and the West burdened by politics of wealth redistribution and the police states with breakdown of rule of law that accompany such. Private capital and innovation will leave for where it won't be attacked. China censors the internet, yet the NSA saves everything. The former is transparent to the people and readily subverted by them, the latter is hidden from the people and implicitly supported by the politics of wealth redistribution.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 521
June 13, 2013, 04:44:32 PM
I'm not a counselor or fact checker and I have no interest in listing the things you got wrong/assumed/didn't-take-into-account.

You don't check facts, yet you claim I made mistakes. Illogical.

The tone of your original post speaks for itself as well as your overreactions to comments on said post.

So there we have it. Your emotions were offended. Sorry babe. Seems like I had this sort of discussion with a female yesterday about lettings one's emotions take control over your logical mind.

You obviously just want to start a new currency but feel the need to justify it somehow.

Typical assumptions of someone projecting their emotional insecurity.

How it is obvious that I want to start a new currency when I have said that my Proof-of-hard disk idea won't work. Hmmm. Logic is obviously not in play here.

You're way too late to the game,

I have also said the same in numerous posts.

But so was Android and it has come from nothing and way behind to trounce iOS:

http://www.catb.org/~esr/comscore/


many others have already done it with varying success but it will probably be litecoin that fares the best of the *ahem* lesser crypto-currencies.

Litecoin has Scrypt Proof-of-Work which is superior:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2455079

But it lacks the most important aspect of leveraging that move level playing field for minting-- greater and perpetually sustained debasement.

Good luck all the same. Roll Eyes

Must be a tormenting mental condition to have such convoluted emotions, that you roll your eyes after sending well wishes.
newbie
Activity: 11
Merit: 0
June 13, 2013, 03:19:35 AM
I'm not a counselor or fact checker and I have no interest in listing the things you got wrong/assumed/didn't-take-into-account. The tone of your original post speaks for itself as well as your overreactions to comments on said post. You obviously just want to start a new currency but feel the need to justify it somehow. You're way too late to the game, many others have already done it with varying success but it will probably be litecoin that fares the best of the *ahem* lesser crypto-currencies. Good luck all the same. Roll Eyes
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 521
June 12, 2013, 10:32:33 AM
Anonymint is a little paranoid. Many holes and assumptions.

Care you sling some detailed instances of "holes and assumptions" to back up your slander? I can't refute content-free personal opinions, thus they are meaningless in the context of debate and search for truth.

Also distinguish between when I presented something as unarguable fact, versus arguments I have offered along with evidence for the reader to consider.
newbie
Activity: 11
Merit: 0
June 12, 2013, 04:06:27 AM
Anonymint is a little paranoid. Many holes and assumptions.
 Roll Eyes
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 521
June 12, 2013, 03:56:50 AM
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/06/11/mailing-cash-is-prohibited-in-usa-france-bars-even-gold/

Is this not enough reason for a decentralized digital currency and especially that everyone can mint on their own to obtain some without going through id checks of the anti-money laundering laws.

See my reply in the other thread about possible improvements we can make to Bitcoin:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2448776
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 521
June 12, 2013, 02:29:52 AM
Per my prior post, Proof-of-Consensus is a dead-end.

We could still look to improve critical flaws in Bitcoin while employing a Proof-of-Work system:

  • Eliminate the 10 min delay by offering the option for spender to place some funds in escrow as a guarantee against double-spend, and escrowed money is forfeited to the ether if there is a double-spend.
  • Eliminate Bitcoin's declining debasement schedule so there is funding from minting forever
  • Add tx fees to incentivize peers to include more transactions in their TBs
  • Consider a Litecoin-like Proof-of-Work that disfavors ASICs
  • Improve anonymity as we discussed in this thread

I am liking my domain name autonomoney.com because the greatest thing about decentralized currency is that no centralized authority controls who can become a spender and a merchant and there is instant signup with no approvals needed.

We need minting so any one can go earn some coins with capital while sidestepping anti-money laundering laws. We need that minting to not stop in 2034 when the 78 cycle predicts this current global crisis to bottom.

Any interest?
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1007
June 12, 2013, 02:27:29 AM
so Marx was right after all huh  Cool
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 521
June 12, 2013, 02:10:12 AM
My original reason for stopping all work on my Proof-of-Hard Disk idea was correct, and all forms of Proof-of-Consensus won't work for that same reason:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2448142

Long live Satoshi's Proof-of-Work.

I am almost ready to abandon any work on cryptocurrencies. They appear to not be a solution to anything:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2129228

Sorry to say. I am awaiting any refutation.

http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=4944&cpage=1#comment-401419

Quote
@Foo:
Quote
(f) the incessant bitcoin questions

I seem to have come to the conclusion that cryptocurrencies do not appear to create anarcho-capitalism. The problem is there appears to be no way to design one that can not be controlled by statism, not even by those who wish to disobey the laws and rely on sophisticated anonymity. The inability to inject non-centralized entropy (in any alternative that can't be controlled by a majority of capital) is a fundamental realization, assuming my conclusion is not refuted.

I like to abandon unworkable ideas as soon as possible.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 521
June 11, 2013, 12:10:35 PM
NY bankers are preparing for a total wipeout of private capital:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2441785
newbie
Activity: 51
Merit: 0
June 05, 2013, 05:24:41 AM
Satoshi

Satashi

Satash

Satan

He's right!  It is diabolical!
Wow so many steps to find the resemblance! It takes way fewer for me in other places so if Satoshi is devil reincarnation than it is some kind of distant relative Smiley

eg.
IMF = satan
ECB = satan
banksters = satan
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
June 05, 2013, 05:15:40 AM
If you read my technical thesis in the OP (opening post), then realize that the alleged takeover by corporations will occur subtly over a decade or two.

You will be lulled to sleep. Then once it is too late, they can start turning off the ability for dissidants to transact. By that time, probably all payments will be digital, even in the local market using your mobile phone (which by that time may be wearable).

Thus you won't eat if the corporate-fascist government apparatus doesn't like your behavior (politics, open source projects, etc).

This is the case also today to some degree...
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 521
June 05, 2013, 05:09:13 AM
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/06/26/us-iron-curtain-is-coming-in-new-immigration-bill-for-all-americans/
http://www.nestmann.com/homelanders-to-u-s-expatriates-dont-come-back-ever/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/06/18/g8-going-to-hunt-down-all-capital/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/06/18/icij-has-done-far-more-damage-to-the-world-economy-that-anyone-realized/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/06/15/united-stasi-of-america/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/06/15/precious-metals-remain-under-attack-by-governments/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/06/14/the-collapse-in-liquidity-rising-volatility/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/06/13/german-high-court-introducing-more-euro-chaos/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/06/12/city-dwellers-at-greatest-risk/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/06/12/snowdens-rude-awakening-usa-does-control-most-of-the-world/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/06/12/greesce-shuts-down-tv-new/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/06/11/capitalism-or-marxism-that-is-the-question/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/06/11/mailing-cash-is-prohibited-in-usa-france-bars-even-gold/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/06/11/congress-wants-snowdens-head-not-the-nsa/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/06/11/the-future-of-the-world-economy-les-miserables/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/06/11/paranoid-or-conservative/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/06/10/capitol-hill/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/06/10/france-declares-victory-over-entire-eurozone-crisis/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/06/09/nsa-surveillance/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/06/08/why-the-survelience-is-very-dangerous/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/06/08/political-trivia-test-can-you-pass-it/ (Hillary Clinton's plans for confiscation)
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/06/07/unemployment-benefits-cut-part-of-deflation/ (the official rate will go to 25-30%, real rate much higher perhaps)
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/06/06/imf-admits-it-made-a-mistake-with-greece/ (Only Julius Caesar understood how to fix a debt crisis)
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/06/06/nsa-tapping-into-internet-directly/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/06/06/is-paranoid-becoming-normal/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/06/05/this-no-time-to-quit-a-job-us-youth-unemployment-hits-16-2/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/06/04/search-warrants-not-necessary-to-take-you-dna/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/06/04/the-growing-shadow-economy-politicians-just-dont-get-it/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/06/04/1984-is-here-2014/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/06/03/seniors-are-the-greediest-generation/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/06/02/rising-tide-of-civil-unrest/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/06/02/the-real-conspiracy/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/06/01/11999/ (Primary Dealers – the Truth About Their Iron Grip)
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/05/31/freedom-to-travel-in-europe-shutting-down/
http://www.nestmann.com/cell-tracking/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/05/15/europe-plans-the-confiscation-of-depositor-assets/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/04/19/germany-wants-global-taxation-cooperation/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/04/19/the-pension-crisis-interest-rate-nightmare/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/04/19/inflation-v-deflation/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/04/18/europe-considering-mandatory-15-of-wages-to-be-taken-for-pensions/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/04/17/the-next-seizure-coming-u-s-consumer-financial-protection-bureau/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/04/17/will-pension-funds-be-the-target-after-2016-to-seize-for-our-protection/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/04/16/europe-to-begin-capital-controls-soon/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/04/13/france-is-pushing-for-tax-evasion-to-be-top-eu-priority-hitler-returns/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/04/12/government-pensions-will-cost-2500-per-household-climbing/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/03/29/cyprus-confiscation-of-assets-is-global-plan/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/03/28/electronic-money/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/03/27/are-we-head-to-a-mad-max-scenario/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/03/25/sovereign-debt-crisis-conference-2/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/02/26/visit-italy-they-seize-your-jewelry/ ("Diego Maradona, the Argentine soccer star...")
http://www.nestmann.com/yes-you-are-a-criminalyou-just-dont-know-it-yet-2/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate (USA an order-of-magnitude higher)
http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=4934&cpage=1#comment-400351 (suburbs as peaceful as Switzerland, Americans are culturally less law abiding & some violent big cities)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conviction_rate (with 93% conviction rate from US Dept or Justice, 99%  in NY Fed courts according to Armstrong)
http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=4927&cpage=1#comment-399831 (Why should it happen to Denmark?)
http://www.nestmann.com/passport-denials-long-a-feature-of-u-s-foreign-policy/
http://www.nestmann.com/hungary-now-imposes-tax-on-non-resident-citizens/
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 521
June 04, 2013, 01:45:22 AM
Quote
> (e) anything more to say about Wile E. Coyote spinning his legs off the
cliff?

Japan must export deflation immediately:

http://www.mauldineconomics.com/frontlinethoughts/central-bankers-gone-wild

We are headed over the cliff into the global sovereign debt big bang. Japan and southern Europe first, with the USA in a dead-cat bounce due to capital fleeing those two. This flow of capital into the dollar is creating a speculative frenzy to rush out of gold into dollar investments to capture the short-term gains. This capital will come rushing back into gold as the big bang ensues in 2014/5.

Quote
>(f) the incessant bitcoin questions

All decentralized currencies are subject to 51% attack, i.e.will be eventually top-down controlled due to the power vacuum that enables socialism:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2365101

The decentralized currencies (can not sustain decentralized and thus) are not individual freedom technologies. Contrast against real freedom technologies such as 3D printing, personal computing, and open source.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 521
June 04, 2013, 12:18:22 AM
51% Rule of Decentralized Agreement

Note that Proof-of-Consensus is subject to 51% attack same as Bitcoin is. This does not eliminate it as an alternative design. At least we see that 51% attack is always possible in any decentralized currency. It is a fundamental.

In any decentralized P2P system any consensus fork of agreement is controllable by controlling 51% of the peers.

It must be this way, else there is no way to eliminate minority opinions (minority forks of agreement).

So what is money? Money is what 51+% of the people agree that it is. Gold is an exception.

The challenge in designing a decentralized money is that the masses can be fooled by cartels into supporting detrimental activities (which may even be obscured from and/or only indirectly harm the 51%).

Physical gold (and silver) is a unique form of money because it can't be cartelized, and even if the masses agree to outlaw gold as anonymous money, some people will still accept anonymously. This is due to the unique properties of the precious metals:

* high value per mass & volume due to natural rarity
* fungible
* durable and divisible
* stable supply
* anonymous (can't be permanently marked)

Is there any other form of money that is similar to gold, yet can be transmitted digitally?

No. I have thought about modules of open source software in trade, yet these are not fungible, and at least probably not divisible. The knowledge is unique and in the main module coder's mind.

The only truly decentralized money is gold. There will never be an alternative. Every decentralized currency design will be controlled by the 51% eventually.

PERIOD. Don't waste my time with oxymoronic nonsense about redistributing money to avoid socializing money. Hahaha.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 521
June 03, 2013, 01:32:56 PM
Proof-of-Consensus:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2360602

Proof-of-hard drive space is subset case of Proof-of-Consensus, and it also supports minting which Proof-of-share does not.
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