Bitcoin trading strategy - page 8. | Bitcointalksearch.org

arallmuus

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Quote from: BillyBobZorton on June 08, 2015, 09:56:14 AM

Quote from: arallmuus on June 07, 2015, 08:53:16 AM

Quote from: Borisz on June 07, 2015, 08:19:52 AM

This 10'000$ dream is cool, problem is you have no way of knowing if it will ever get there. I'm not saying it cannot/won't, but do you know for sure that it will? Otherwise you will be sitting on a bunch of coins, not doing anything with them, just to find out that in 10 years it is worth the same.

Some people are living in their own delusional dream (cant really blame them though), probably driven by that BTC once reached $1200 and may reach another high peak again someday. The bolded part will be a good scenario if it really happen or the people holding and hoping it to reach $10,000 will be sitting with a worthless BTC in 10 years
Not that Im pessimist in BTC , just that people should learn that it is not a guarantee that the value will increase overtime , best thing would be earning from its movement aka daily trading

P.S : buying and holding BTC isnt really trading but somewhat it is long term investment

The marketcap of Bitcoin is extremely low. If you look other marketcaps of other disrupting tech such as the simple uber one, you'll see how tiny the marketcap for Bitcoin is and how the space to grow is insanely big. People has a problem of a mix of putting things into perspective and not being able to be patient.
Of course you shouldn't sit on 1 BTC and do nothing with your time, you should actively try to grow your stack in any means possible.

To be honest, marketcap has less thing to do with trading anyway. It is not about the marketcap will grow few years later or the value will increase after the halving or whatsoever but it is about the movement of the price, the fluctuation of each price .

Even if BTC value were to fall into 1 cent / BTC if there is still a movement in this then BTC is worth to be used for trading , however even if we see $1000 / BTC but if the value is constant without any movement at all then it cant be traded at all (unless someone or few people manipulate it to make it looks fluctuative)

Borisz

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Quote from: BillyBobZorton on June 08, 2015, 09:56:14 AM

Quote from: arallmuus on June 07, 2015, 08:53:16 AM

Quote from: Borisz on June 07, 2015, 08:19:52 AM

This 10'000$ dream is cool, problem is you have no way of knowing if it will ever get there. I'm not saying it cannot/won't, but do you know for sure that it will? Otherwise you will be sitting on a bunch of coins, not doing anything with them, just to find out that in 10 years it is worth the same.

Some people are living in their own delusional dream (cant really blame them though), probably driven by that BTC once reached $1200 and may reach another high peak again someday. The bolded part will be a good scenario if it really happen or the people holding and hoping it to reach $10,000 will be sitting with a worthless BTC in 10 years
Not that Im pessimist in BTC , just that people should learn that it is not a guarantee that the value will increase overtime , best thing would be earning from its movement aka daily trading

P.S : buying and holding BTC isnt really trading but somewhat it is long term investment

The marketcap of Bitcoin is extremely low. If you look other marketcaps of other disrupting tech such as the simple uber one, you'll see how tiny the marketcap for Bitcoin is and how the space to grow is insanely big. People has a problem of a mix of putting things into perspective and not being able to be patient.
Of course you shouldn't sit on 1 BTC and do nothing with your time, you should actively try to grow your stack in any means possible.

I would say this is only true if you are looking at 1 BTC as the base unit. However if you follow the argument, which is often brought that BTC can be divided infinitely, then we have an infinite market cap. (or rather self-defined)

BillyBobZorton

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Quote from: arallmuus on June 07, 2015, 08:53:16 AM

Quote from: Borisz on June 07, 2015, 08:19:52 AM

This 10'000$ dream is cool, problem is you have no way of knowing if it will ever get there. I'm not saying it cannot/won't, but do you know for sure that it will? Otherwise you will be sitting on a bunch of coins, not doing anything with them, just to find out that in 10 years it is worth the same.

Some people are living in their own delusional dream (cant really blame them though), probably driven by that BTC once reached $1200 and may reach another high peak again someday. The bolded part will be a good scenario if it really happen or the people holding and hoping it to reach $10,000 will be sitting with a worthless BTC in 10 years
Not that Im pessimist in BTC , just that people should learn that it is not a guarantee that the value will increase overtime , best thing would be earning from its movement aka daily trading

P.S : buying and holding BTC isnt really trading but somewhat it is long term investment

The marketcap of Bitcoin is extremely low. If you look other marketcaps of other disrupting tech such as the simple uber one, you'll see how tiny the marketcap for Bitcoin is and how the space to grow is insanely big. People has a problem of a mix of putting things into perspective and not being able to be patient.
Of course you shouldn't sit on 1 BTC and do nothing with your time, you should actively try to grow your stack in any means possible.

arallmuus

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Quote from: Borisz on June 08, 2015, 05:11:36 AM

I would say it kind of depends on how long you are planning to hold on to your BTC (asset). I mean if you are planning to sell in 10 years, I agree it is trading in some extent. However at the same time, can you call something "trading" that involves a single trade in 10 years? Tongue

I think holding is simply an investment in an asset or stock with the hope that it's price will go up. wait..which then makes BTC a "company" where we are the shareholders. Shocked

This is what exactly I meant, I should have posted this in a better sentences so that people could get what I exactly meant. Most people do think that buying now and keeping it , hoping it to goes up by $10 next month/year and sell it is consider as trading but the fact that it is not, it is more to like putting investment in BTC

Quote from: Amph on June 08, 2015, 04:05:02 AM

selling and buying can also be called an investment, a short term investment, actually they belong to the same class, one is fast the other is slow

Actually selling and buying activity doesnt count as investment but is a trading activity. Investment is more or less into keeping things for long period of time hoping that the value of it could be better by the time . While trading is somehow different, most people that hold BTC doesnt even bother when the price is lower by 1 % of the value when they bought it and keep on hoping that the value will go uo in a few weeks ahead but as a trader this will bother you

Borisz

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Quote from: Amph on June 08, 2015, 04:05:02 AM

Quote from: Harry Hood on June 07, 2015, 01:52:32 PM

Quote from: arallmuus on June 07, 2015, 08:53:16 AM

Not that Im pessimist in BTC , just that people should learn that it is not a guarantee that the value will increase overtime , best thing would be earning from its movement aka daily trading

P.S : buying and holding BTC isnt really trading but somewhat it is long term investment

Buying and holding isn't trading at all - it's buying, and errr holding. There's nothing "somewhat" about the long term investment part, that's exactly what it is.

So what's been your history and success with trading BTC? There's been such little movement recently, I wonder if you've been able to make some plays that have really paid off.

Good luck!

so if you don't sell you are not trading? buying and holding with the aim of selling at some point(you see you will actually sell later), is a trading strategy, a long-terms ones

selling and buying can also be called an investment, a short term investment, actually they belong to the same class, one is fast the other is slow

I would say it kind of depends on how long you are planning to hold on to your BTC (asset). I mean if you are planning to sell in 10 years, I agree it is trading in some extent. However at the same time, can you call something "trading" that involves a single trade in 10 years? Tongue

I think holding is simply an investment in an asset or stock with the hope that it's price will go up. wait..which then makes BTC a "company" where we are the shareholders. Shocked

Amph

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Quote from: Harry Hood on June 07, 2015, 01:52:32 PM

Quote from: arallmuus on June 07, 2015, 08:53:16 AM

Not that Im pessimist in BTC , just that people should learn that it is not a guarantee that the value will increase overtime , best thing would be earning from its movement aka daily trading

P.S : buying and holding BTC isnt really trading but somewhat it is long term investment

Buying and holding isn't trading at all - it's buying, and errr holding. There's nothing "somewhat" about the long term investment part, that's exactly what it is.

So what's been your history and success with trading BTC? There's been such little movement recently, I wonder if you've been able to make some plays that have really paid off.

Good luck!

so if you don't sell you are not trading? buying and holding with the aim of selling at some point(you see you will actually sell later), is a trading strategy, a long-terms ones

selling and buying can also be called an investment, a short term investment, actually they belong to the same class, one is fast the other is slow

arallmuus

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Quote from: Harry Hood on June 07, 2015, 01:52:32 PM

Quote from: arallmuus on June 07, 2015, 08:53:16 AM

Not that Im pessimist in BTC , just that people should learn that it is not a guarantee that the value will increase overtime , best thing would be earning from its movement aka daily trading

P.S : buying and holding BTC isnt really trading but somewhat it is long term investment

So what's been your history and success with trading BTC?
-snip-

Good luck!

I am decent on it I guess but I was a day trader like a year ago ( or about 8-10 months ago) mostly in btc-e and huobi but not anymore, I am now enjoying my life gambling with it now instead Wink

.

Quote from: Harry Hood on June 07, 2015, 01:52:32 PM

There's been such little movement recently, I wonder if you've been able to make some plays that have really paid off.

Actually there is quite a decent movement and the price decline again just few hours ago which you can check here https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/huobi/btccny. If this small up and downs isnt a movement than I dont know what is . You could have profitted from all this small movements but most people are looking for big movement instead since small movement will earn them a little only .

Harry Hood

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Quote from: arallmuus on June 07, 2015, 08:53:16 AM

Not that Im pessimist in BTC , just that people should learn that it is not a guarantee that the value will increase overtime , best thing would be earning from its movement aka daily trading

P.S : buying and holding BTC isnt really trading but somewhat it is long term investment

Buying and holding isn't trading at all - it's buying, and errr holding. There's nothing "somewhat" about the long term investment part, that's exactly what it is.

So what's been your history and success with trading BTC? There's been such little movement recently, I wonder if you've been able to make some plays that have really paid off.

Good luck!

arallmuus

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Activity: 2562

Merit: 1414

Quote from: Borisz on June 07, 2015, 08:19:52 AM

This 10'000$ dream is cool, problem is you have no way of knowing if it will ever get there. I'm not saying it cannot/won't, but do you know for sure that it will? Otherwise you will be sitting on a bunch of coins, not doing anything with them, just to find out that in 10 years it is worth the same.

Some people are living in their own delusional dream (cant really blame them though), probably driven by that BTC once reached $1200 and may reach another high peak again someday. The bolded part will be a good scenario if it really happen or the people holding and hoping it to reach $10,000 will be sitting with a worthless BTC in 10 years
Not that Im pessimist in BTC , just that people should learn that it is not a guarantee that the value will increase overtime , best thing would be earning from its movement aka daily trading

P.S : buying and holding BTC isnt really trading but somewhat it is long term investment

Borisz

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Activity: 476

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Quote from: Febo on June 06, 2015, 02:42:28 PM

Quote from: Agestorzrxx on May 19, 2015, 05:36:42 AM

The best strategy is buying now and never sell it until the price going to $10000. You can't think the price is only $200+, right?

It might happen then you really never sell then. So you have nothing from your investment.
On other hand you can earn from bitcoin price movements.

This 10'000$ dream is cool, problem is you have no way of knowing if it will ever get there. I'm not saying it cannot/won't, but do you know for sure that it will? Otherwise you will be sitting on a bunch of coins, not doing anything with them, just to find out that in 10 years it is worth the same.

arallmuus

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Quote from: Amph on June 07, 2015, 04:13:26 AM

Quote from: arallmuus on June 07, 2015, 04:01:05 AM

There is nothing wrong with that, he is simply stating up example so he can indeed put up any number into it but he forgot the vital point that a skilled trader wont even wait for a 10 % increase to sell it, it will be around 0.5-1 % to execute the sell for them

unless you can systematically, be good with selling at such low % in the long run, fees would be a problem, those are anyway good shorters traders, a more bullish will wait a bit more before selling to squeeze the maximum amount possible, and the risk will rise too, of course

Fees are mostly 0.25 % which make up 0.5 % for both buy and sell which makes my argument stands on atleast 0.5 % because some exchanger apply a limit/instant execute which the fees only apply to the limit option and most chinese exchanger are applying 0 % fees anyway so it is a bless for trader

The bolded part is actually a standard way in trading. Practice do make things perfect which in this case a skilled trader will now on not how to limit order

i.e since the price is holding at $220 (for example )

Instead of buying a chunk of it for $219, trader mostly set up limit for the order and spread it well, in this case it will be buying at $219 , $218.8 , $218.6 and so on. By making it this way, it is easier to gain profit this way, the price of your buy order will be on the average of those all buy order. By doing this way then if the price is dropped to $218.8, then you will still have some tiny profit out of it because you are not buying them entirely at $219 but instead you spread it further to minimize the risk of losing it

Amph

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Quote from: arallmuus on June 07, 2015, 04:01:05 AM

Quote from: BTCevo on June 06, 2015, 08:07:41 PM

Quote from: ilyasilyaso on June 06, 2015, 09:17:55 AM

-snip-

Are you really believe that you will get $50 per bitcoin until your payment time is up? And now the price of bitcoin is just around $224-$225 so I dont think the price will hit until $274-$275 so it is pointless to do that kind of trick

There is nothing wrong with that, he is simply stating up example so he can indeed put up any number into it but he forgot the vital point that a skilled trader wont even wait for a 10 % increase to sell it, it will be around 0.5-1 % to execute the sell for them

unless you can systematically, be good with selling at such low % in the long run, fees would be a problem, those are anyway good shorters traders, a more bullish will wait a bit more before selling to squeeze the maximum amount possible, and the risk will rise too, of course

arallmuus

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Quote from: BTCevo on June 06, 2015, 08:07:41 PM

Quote from: ilyasilyaso on June 06, 2015, 09:17:55 AM

-snip-

Are you really believe that you will get $50 per bitcoin until your payment time is up? And now the price of bitcoin is just around $224-$225 so I dont think the price will hit until $274-$275 so it is pointless to do that kind of trick

There is nothing wrong with that, he is simply stating up example so he can indeed put up any number into it but he forgot the vital point that a skilled trader wont even wait for a 10 % increase to sell it, it will be around 0.5-1 % to execute the sell for them

Quote from: BTCevo on June 06, 2015, 08:07:41 PM

Are you sure that this might happen? $10,000 is that making sense? May be around $1,000 I still believe it but $10,000 I still can't believe it what will happen if the price has going there

Nothing wrong with having speculation though some people loves it actually and also that most people that hold BTC for long term actually have the same opinion about that. Mostly because it is driven by the past perfomance that the price shoot up to $1200 which they believe might happen again after some halving or atleast few tenth years

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Quote from: ilyasilyaso on June 06, 2015, 09:17:55 AM

There are two techniques commonly used by day traders to increase their profits from market movements. Leverage, or margin trading, means borrowing money on a short-term basis to speculate on the price of bitcoin. The loan is paid back when you exit the position. For example:

The price of bitcoin is $500. You borrow $5,000 to buy 10 bitcoins.
The price of bitcoin rises to $550. You sell your 10 bitcoins for a total of $5,500.
You pay back the loan of $5,000, plus interest (say, $50).
Profit: $450, on a price movement of $50.
Of course, you can also lose a lot of money this way: if the price goes down instead of up, you will lose ten times the price movement. This is what makes margin trading so risky – it is potentially extremely profitable, but can also be very costly.

Are you really believe that you will get $50 per bitcoin until your payment time is up? And now the price of bitcoin is just around $224-$225 so I dont think the price will hit until $274-$275 so it is pointless to do that kind of trick

Quote from: Febo on June 06, 2015, 02:42:28 PM

Quote from: Agestorzrxx on May 19, 2015, 05:36:42 AM

The best strategy is buying now and never sell it until the price going to $10000. You can't think the price is only $200+, right?

It might happen then you really never sell then. So you have nothing from your investment.
On other hand you can earn from bitcoin price movements.

Are you sure that this might happen? $10,000 is that making sense? May be around $1,000 I still believe it but $10,000 I still can't believe it what will happen if the price has going there

randy8777

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Quote from: Febo on June 06, 2015, 02:42:28 PM

Quote from: Agestorzrxx on May 19, 2015, 05:36:42 AM

The best strategy is buying now and never sell it until the price going to $10000. You can't think the price is only $200+, right?

It might happen then you really never sell then. So you have nothing from your investment.
On other hand you can earn from bitcoin price movements.

most people don't even know what holding really is. they will probably sell their coins as soon as they see the price went up like 10-15%

Febo

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Quote from: Agestorzrxx on May 19, 2015, 05:36:42 AM

The best strategy is buying now and never sell it until the price going to $10000. You can't think the price is only $200+, right?

It might happen then you really never sell then. So you have nothing from your investment.
On other hand you can earn from bitcoin price movements.

arallmuus

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Quote from: ilyasilyaso on June 06, 2015, 09:17:55 AM

-snip-
Of course, you can also lose a lot of money this way: if the price goes down instead of up, you will lose ten times the price movement. This is what makes margin trading so risky – it is potentially extremely profitable, but can also be very costly.

Good example Unless you forgot that a skilled trader wont even wait for the price to increase by 10 % then sell it after and to mention that there is a way to actually profitted from using this strategy, which is called as constant percentage execute. Skilled traders are always playing with the market like a bot (if they are doing it manually ) , with that said before doing it , they have put in a limit of each buy or sell.

i.e 1 % each time which means that whenever the price shoots above 1 %, they will constantly sell it for 1 % profit instead of above it for safety practice and also do the same thing whenever the price drop (cut lose)

Heard of this saying :

Code:

It is better to get something rather than losing

P.S : my own saying btw Tongue

Quote from: knowhow on June 05, 2015, 09:22:39 PM

Quote from: arallmuus on June 03, 2015, 04:24:30 PM

As a matter of fact, this is actually needed for daily trader. Having either good or bad news will bring on the hyping even more active , which you can check from btc-e trollbox regarding how they react due to the KNCminer coins being moved.
Also if you remember correctly on how the news of several months ago regarding paypal accepting BTC is leaked, people are buying like crazy but somewhat the price is going back to where it was weeks later. News do have slight effect for the price but the thing is due to the market being manipulated, we could not even predict wether the X or Y news will bring an impact or no the market

i dont buy direct from exchanges i buy for a resseler that plays with market soo lets say the btc worth around 300 dollars that users charges me 50 dollars above and done...even if he bought btc low or high the user just got some income and always add a rate above the current rate of btc on that day .I dont buy direct because most exchanges ask too many details about the trader and allow wire transfers as credit card and i dont like it.

This is another way a trader profitted from the market though. It is somewhat less risky and much highly proffitable also that it is much more less time-consuming, which you can even check from the currency exchange board whereas most people accept at -3 % stamp rate and sell them at +3 % stamp rate (more or less ) , thus this generate a 6 % overall profit for them

Actually most BTC/FIAT exchangers do ask some question especially your identity since it is involving FIAT though and actually it is a normal procedure around

ilyasilyaso

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There are two techniques commonly used by day traders to increase their profits from market movements. Leverage, or margin trading, means borrowing money on a short-term basis to speculate on the price of bitcoin. The loan is paid back when you exit the position. For example:

The price of bitcoin is $500. You borrow $5,000 to buy 10 bitcoins.
The price of bitcoin rises to $550. You sell your 10 bitcoins for a total of $5,500.
You pay back the loan of $5,000, plus interest (say, $50).
Profit: $450, on a price movement of $50.
Of course, you can also lose a lot of money this way: if the price goes down instead of up, you will lose ten times the price movement. This is what makes margin trading so risky – it is potentially extremely profitable, but can also be very costly.

knowhow

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Quote from: arallmuus on June 03, 2015, 04:24:30 PM

Quote from: Borisz on June 03, 2015, 07:29:17 AM

Quote from: arallmuus on June 02, 2015, 09:51:44 AM

---snip
True, that is why most people are using bot to ease their trading. Doing trade manually will only get yourself burnt especially if you are doing it in a high volume market where the margin of buy and sell are almost none and not to mention that human's speed is limited, price may shoot up immediately without you knowing , i.e few weeks back someone mistyped a zero on btc-e and executed a 10k BTC buy, shooting the price straightforward.
Another options will be trading in a non fee exchanger , most chinnese exchanger applied a zero fee market though.

I was simulatiing some bot trading, but even that didn't go fully according to maths.Even if my bot tries to sell some coins, the pure fact of selling creates a downwards shift in prices.

Indeed, having bot does not mean thay you will always get profit though, it basically ease you in trading (bolded it). In some situation, trading with bot is much easier though especially in high volume market.

Quote from: Borisz on June 03, 2015, 07:29:17 AM

@ News' influence on BTC price: What I see is that it has a temporary effect

Slight variation because of people thinking what it will bring, then it goes up/down (back) where it (roughly) was. Of course major news have different impact.

As a matter of fact, this is actually needed for daily trader. Having either good or bad news will bring on the hyping even more active , which you can check from btc-e trollbox regarding how they react due to the KNCminer coins being moved.
Also if you remember correctly on how the news of several months ago regarding paypal accepting BTC is leaked, people are buying like crazy but somewhat the price is going back to where it was weeks later. News do have slight effect for the price but the thing is due to the market being manipulated, we could not even predict wether the X or Y news will bring an impact or no the market

i dont buy direct from exchanges i buy for a resseler that plays with market soo lets say the btc worth around 300 dollars that users charges me 50 dollars above and done...even if he bought btc low or high the user just got some income and always add a rate above the current rate of btc on that day .I dont buy direct because most exchanges ask too many details about the trader and allow wire transfers as credit card and i dont like it.

arallmuus

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Activity: 2562

Merit: 1414

Quote from: Borisz on June 03, 2015, 07:29:17 AM

Quote from: arallmuus on June 02, 2015, 09:51:44 AM

---snip
True, that is why most people are using bot to ease their trading. Doing trade manually will only get yourself burnt especially if you are doing it in a high volume market where the margin of buy and sell are almost none and not to mention that human's speed is limited, price may shoot up immediately without you knowing , i.e few weeks back someone mistyped a zero on btc-e and executed a 10k BTC buy, shooting the price straightforward.
Another options will be trading in a non fee exchanger , most chinnese exchanger applied a zero fee market though.

I was simulatiing some bot trading, but even that didn't go fully according to maths.Even if my bot tries to sell some coins, the pure fact of selling creates a downwards shift in prices.

Indeed, having bot does not mean thay you will always get profit though, it basically ease you in trading (bolded it). In some situation, trading with bot is much easier though especially in high volume market.

Quote from: Borisz on June 03, 2015, 07:29:17 AM

@ News' influence on BTC price: What I see is that it has a temporary effect

Slight variation because of people thinking what it will bring, then it goes up/down (back) where it (roughly) was. Of course major news have different impact.

As a matter of fact, this is actually needed for daily trader. Having either good or bad news will bring on the hyping even more active , which you can check from btc-e trollbox regarding how they react due to the KNCminer coins being moved.
Also if you remember correctly on how the news of several months ago regarding paypal accepting BTC is leaked, people are buying like crazy but somewhat the price is going back to where it was weeks later. News do have slight effect for the price but the thing is due to the market being manipulated, we could not even predict wether the X or Y news will bring an impact or no the market

Topic: Bitcoin trading strategy - page 8. (Read 13734 times)