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Topic: BitcoinOrama Report on the KnCminer/OrSoC Open-day Mon 10/06/13 (Stockholm) - page 18. (Read 55747 times)

hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
Granted... at least voltage tests and i/o tests seem simple enough...  but on the other hand, if they're capable of excluding defective engines through an automated process onboard - then there's really little reason to pre-test anything.

Well, there is the mater of an expensive test socket/interface to be designed and procured. And did you note they have not even selected their foundry yet. In another post I noted the over-optimism of ASIC customers (ie KNCMiner in this context vs foundries), that was 20 years ago. Seems nothing has changed. There will be tears.

I believe they have. I think this is mentioned later in the audio.

There are two competing foundries, we were told who they were, both have the final design, both are bidding for the gig. Sam mentioned something of huge interest here in front of us. So i'm not the only one who heard this, but I'm not sure I can repeat it; so I won't, but it involves meeting the September deadline.

The decision was to made on Tuesday/Wednesday to place the order with the chosen foundry I believe was mentioned. I attended Monday.

I'm also only through the first page of questions.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
Granted... at least voltage tests and i/o tests seem simple enough...  but on the other hand, if they're capable of excluding defective engines through an automated process onboard - then there's really little reason to pre-test anything.

Well, there is the mater of an expensive test socket/interface to be designed and procured. And did you note they have not even selected their foundry yet. In another post I noted the over-optimism of ASIC customers (ie KNCMiner in this context vs foundries), that was 20 years ago. Seems nothing has changed. There will be tears.

I'm inclined to agree... but you know every once in awhile someone wins 64btc playing satoshidice. So I guess we'll just wait and see.
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
Granted... at least voltage tests and i/o tests seem simple enough...  but on the other hand, if they're capable of excluding defective engines through an automated process onboard - then there's really little reason to pre-test anything.

Well, there is the matter of an expensive test socket/interface to be designed and procured. And did you note they have not even selected their foundry yet. In another post I noted the over-optimism of ASIC customers (ie KNCMiner in this context, as the customer of the foundry), that was 20 years ago. Seems nothing has changed. There will be tears.

PS I edited for clarity, hence the difference from firefop's quote below.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500

good read.

and your idea about AYBABTO is totally la
me. Wink

Wha?!...and after I complimented you on your choice of signature the other day...! Roll Eyes

 Grin Grin
That was totally 'cause *I* have good taste Grin


In this instance we have an agreement:

http://www.planettribes.com/allyourbase/index.shtml
KS
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250

good read.

and your idea about AYBABTO is totally lame. Wink

Wha?!...and after I complimented you on your choice of signature the other day...! Roll Eyes

 Grin Grin
That was totally 'cause *I* have good taste Grin
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
So you're saying it's more-or-less OK to throw money at these people ?

I'd take it with a grain of salt. Consider who the OP is. That being said: I'm hopeful that knc turns out to both legit and capable, and as with all asic manufacturers once something ships I'll buy one.




What does that mean?! I'm strictly not telling anyone to do anything, at all. It even says that in the first post in no uncertain terms. I then repeated it in a reply to this very question.

I'm just reporting what I saw, as I saw it, and what was said. I'm also making sure the two are separate from each-other so I do not pollute the latter with any opinion. Ask anyone else who attended of their opinion. It will be positive, but Bitcoin's SP, the hashrate, and the known/unknown competition are all factors that have huge influence...on any potential outcome.

KnC/ORSoC are a real engineering firm. There is still genuine risk. Being engineers they are limiting where possible, but the time factor means they have to take calculated risks themselves. Anyone getting into this 'ASIC race', which is exactly what it is, should understand that.

As for my authenticity I turned up knackered after a long convoluted journey with one of the world's worst airline at 6am to the furthest Stockholm airport, and a long-ass coach transfer, in person, after limited sleep throughout the weekend prior, verifiable by all those in attendance. If you want, I'll post the boarding passes as well (sans identifiable personal details).

I believe you where there... but everything else aside - it could still be a con of some sort. If it is, it's best presented one in bitcoin history. If it's not, I'll be buying right along with everyone else once we see product in the wild.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
I'll repeat this here ...

My takeaway from that ...

There is no wafer test.

There is no packaged chip test.

They are simply going to solder the chips on the boards and hope any defects are not fatal (ie unusable boards).

Their yield had better be pretty good for that strategy to work.

 (Disclosure, my first job in ASIC industry: test engineer, though things may well have come on a bit in the last 30 years). (Ignore, argument from authority).

PS What is so difficult about the packaged chip test? At the very least measure the supply current to exclude the meltdown risks and run just a few test vectors through them to check the I/O protocol works. They are in way too much of a hurry to get product shipped.

PPS "The chip manufacturer I believe is chosen today. Sam was quite matter of fact about how they aim to hit September,"
... nothing more needs to be said. Read it and weep.

Granted... at least voltage tests and i/o tests seem simple enough...  but on the other hand, if they're capable of excluding defective engines through an automated process onboard - then there's really little reason to pre-test anything.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
So you're saying it's more-or-less OK to throw money at these people ?

I'd take it with a grain of salt. Consider who the OP is. That being said: I'm hopeful that knc turns out to both legit and capable, and as with all asic manufacturers once something ships I'll buy one.




What does that mean?! I'm strictly not telling anyone to do anything, at all. It even says that in the first post in no uncertain terms. I then repeated it in a reply to this very question.

I'm just reporting what I saw, as I saw it, and what was said. I'm also making sure the two are separate from each-other so I do not pollute the latter with any opinion. Ask anyone else who attended of their opinion. It will be positive, but Bitcoin's SP, the hashrate, and the known/unknown competition are all factors that have huge influence...on any potential outcome.

KnC/ORSoC are a real engineering firm. There is still genuine risk. Being engineers they are limiting where possible, but the time factor means they have to take calculated risks themselves. Anyone getting into this 'ASIC race', which is exactly what it is, should understand that.

As for my authenticity I turned up knackered after a long convoluted journey with one of the world's worst airline from London Stanstead at 6am to the furthest Stockholm airport, Skavsta, and a long-ass coach transfer, in person, after limited sleep throughout the weekend prior, verifiable by all those in attendance. If you want, I'll post the boarding passes as well (sans identifiable personal details).
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
I'll repeat this here ...

My takeaway from that ...

There is no wafer test.

There is no packaged chip test.

They are simply going to solder the chips on the boards and hope any defects are not fatal (ie unusable boards).

Their yield had better be pretty good for that strategy to work.

 (Disclosure, my first job in ASIC industry: test engineer, though things may well have come on a bit in the last 30 years). (Ignore, argument from authority).

PS What is so difficult about the packaged chip test? At the very least measure the supply current to exclude the meltdown risks and run just a few test vectors through them to check the I/O protocol works. They are in way too much of a hurry to get product shipped.

PPS "The chip manufacturer I believe is chosen today. Sam was quite matter of fact about how they aim to hit September,"
... nothing more needs to be said. Read it and weep.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500

good read.

and your idea about AYBABTO is totally lame. Wink

Wha?!...and after I complimented you on your choice of signature the other day...! Roll Eyes

 Grin Grin
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
So you're saying it's more-or-less OK to throw money at these people ?

I'd take it with a grain of salt. Consider who the OP is. That being said: I'm hopeful that knc turns out to both legit and capable, and as with all asic manufacturers once something ships I'll buy one.


KS
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
cheers for storyline. Smiley




Yah provides the most evidence, but takes the most time, hence the least enthusiasm...! Wink
hero member
Activity: 854
Merit: 501
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
Would it be; "All your Bitcoin are belong to us", or "All your Bitcoins are belong to us"?

It would be the singular, right? As 'base' was never plural...
Bitcoin.   Edit: But possibly could be too nerdy for some.  If they don't know about the "base belong to" thing, they might be paranoid that KnC will steal (some of) their coins.  Or maybe not.

Thank you for your effort and trip report.  It was great to see the answers to my questions.  I look forward to the rest.


Haha, I thought that intially, but no it's too good an opportunity for lols to miss...it would become a viral meme in it's own right!!

All Your Bitcoin Are Belong To Us...Grin
full member
Activity: 198
Merit: 100
Would it be; "All your Bitcoin are belong to us", or "All your Bitcoins are belong to us"?

It would be the singular, right? As 'base' was never plural...
Bitcoin.   Edit: But possibly could be too nerdy for some.  If they don't know about the "base belong to" thing, they might be paranoid that KnC will steal (some of) their coins.  Or maybe not.

Thank you for your effort and trip report.  It was great to see the answers to my questions.  I look forward to the rest.
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
♫ A wave came crashing like a fist to the jaw ♫
Excellent write up BitcoinOrama, we really appreciate your hard work!
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1007
Very nice very nice! Cheesy

Edit: I'm 99% sure that the singular is the way to go! "All your Bitcoin are belong to us"
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
Would it be; "All your Bitcoin are belong to us", or "All your Bitcoins are belong to us"?

It would be the singular, right? As 'base' was never plural...
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
Ok, so Q&A (first page of) is typed up below. I dug a bit further than the question specified in a few places.

The pic below has an amusing story. We all know English is not the first language for anyone, but Sam, and he is probably the worst speller of the lot.

So, their tag line:

'Bitcoins make the world go around', is as they realised afterwards; a spelling mistake, and should read 'Bitcoin makes the world go round'.

Alas, too late and they had ordered Mar's boards by that point, all with the spelling error, which I had Sam so proudly pose with. We were all given a pcb board, complete with spelling mistake, as a memento. Who knows? Perhaps one day it itself may have value, if not only historical...


Heh. This could replace the "All your base are belong to us" line Smiley

I'm not even joking, I sent that suggestion to both Marcus and Sam earlier today;

to Marcus



You can say round or around, it's just a becomes odd to say Bitcoins (plural) make the world go around.

'Bitcoin makes the world go round' would be correct.

'All Your Bitcoins Are Belong To Us' would win instant supergeek credibility and massive cool factor.

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/all-your-base-are-belong-to-us

That caused lots of random people to just start posting the message everywhere in real life;

February 27, 2001: “All Your Base Are Belong to Us” makes its debut at #46 on the Lycos 50.
March 2, 2001: The Dutch railways website is hacked to display the phrase, “ALL YOUR TRAINS ARE BELONGTO US.”
2003: The meme quickly crosses into the real world. Universities are bombed with leaflets declaring that all their bases now belong.
April 1, 2003: In Sturgis, Michigan, a group of teenagers placed All Your Base signs all over town, interpreted by unwitting officials as a “borderline terrorist threat”.
2004: North Carolina State University students hack the phrase onto the news ticker of a live television news broadcast, FTW.

It would be awesome to have the boards with 'All Your Bitcoins Are Belong To Us', plus it makes light of the previous spelling error, so it's a humorous progression.

Please do that instead.

Best, A.
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