Topic: [BitFunder] IceDrill.ASIC IPO (235 Thash Mining Operation powered by HashFast) - page 94. (Read 378708 times)

Of those only not having to keep the equipment running is correct.  Any electricity costs come out of the gross revenue.  It is no different then mining your own coins and putting aside enough to pay the power bill.  Any damaged equipment has to be replaced from gross revenue and reducing the revenue until replaced, once again the same as hardware you own.

I think IceDrill is a good project but come on, if those facts came as a shock to you, maybe you shouldn't be an investor, generally speaking.

I trust BitFunder as much*, if not much more, than BTCT and with the JSON asset list it's possible for everyone to view every share ownership at every moment.

The IPO seemed shady for the same reason that telling the truth about ASICMINER two week ago would earn me 12 down-votes on reddit.

How good are they with updating and keeping good records on the assetlist? I always hear people saying they want a security on btct

They will. def make an ROI given that insane large number of hashing power. ROI and timing become very important when you have very little hashing power, as the network keeps growing you pretty much become useless, this process is much slower with huge amounts of power.

Now to my question, is IceDrill legit in investing in? I read a good majority of the posts, some people were talking about getting screwed and wish they never bought these shares? Also, is Bitfunder safe, I read they don't keep a good account of actual owned shares from people?

thanks

The latest publically shareable information from Hashfast on the topic of overclocking can be found here:

We locked in a spot price of $100/BTC for the installments on 12 and 19 Aug with Hashfast. What we do with any value left over as a result of an increased spot price before the final installment (30 Sept) depends largely on that value at the time. There are several options we're considering for leveraging an increased future valuation, all of which obviously go directly toward the benefit of shareholders. All viable suggestions are welcomed and will be seriously considered.

My apologies if you were lead to believe that we were buying Baby Jets. Such a statement was never made. To be clear: IceDrill will be powered by a large amount of Hashfast's enterprise-level mining equipment. Our control over the evolution of their first-batch retail offering is nil.

+1!
I've asked this some week ago.

Nobody goes into an investment this scale without looking at the long term or ROI.. give them some credit for going big !! I'll invest next month

I think so.

Confirmation would be nice, or further information on how reinvestment will be put in practice. Maybe a wholesale deal with Hashfast and every few weeks the re-investment dividends will be used to order and deploy new bulk chips?

Well not exactly. it's like you bought a 400 GH Unit and every month you use part of your mined income to buy an extra 100GH in hashrate.

Assuming ICE.DRILL will pay less BTC/GH for the hashrate reinvestments than regular hashfast customers this might still be a better deal than buying a babyjet yourself.

That can happen...

And if people got their Baby Jets 3 months later than what was promised, bye bye ROI!

And this also can happen.

Buying IceDrill shares one does not have to pay electricity, keep the equipment running, if it brokes have to replace it, and so on...

It still seems a good deal to me...
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And the IceDrill folks promised to pay .0016 worth of dividends/share to public shareholders first. To me that's kind of a ROI protection program.
Void if IceDrill majorly screws up and destroys all invested coins somehow, or disappears of course...

Ok, sure.  Some people can't afford babyjets at $5600 and I thought IceDrill would allow smaller players to invest. I can no longer recommend that.  If you buy 8 babyjets thats $5600 * 8 = $44,800 which is a lot of money for a lot of people.  Buying $44,800 of equipment that includes insurance guarantees seems to be a better deal than $44,800 of IceDrill.  

Also, as the price of bitcoin goes up, currently at $112 at bitstamp, the IceDrill IPO is even less appealing than a baby jet.

$5600 * (1 BTC/$112) * (1 Share/.0014) * (10MH/Share) * (1GH/1000H) = 357 GH

So that means if you have $5600 USD you will only get 357 GH if you buy IceDrill shares.  If you took that same $5600 and bought a BabyJet you would get 400GH.  Of course bitcoin is volatile and it can go up and down.  My next question is if bitcoin goes up what does IceDrill plan to do with those bitcoins?  Because I imagine their contract with HashFast is in dollars.  So if bitcoin goes to $200 will IceDrill get get more mining equipment?  Or will the extra bitcoins be redistributed back to shareholders?  Of do the private shareholders get to keep it?  The IPO should state what would happen if the price of bitcoins go up (or down) since the HashFast contract is in dollars (I assume.)

Edited.
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Buying IceDrill shares one does not have to pay electricity, keep the equipment running, if it brokes have to replace it, and so on...

It still seems a good deal to me...

Money saved by forgoing the MPP may be used to purchase more hardware, if needed to fulfill ice.drill's 10MH/share commitment.

ID is a different play, at a larger scale, than a BJ or two.

Shareholders don't need compensation.  All that matters is the profit of the company owners.  We should have know this was going to happen, ice "drill" refers to what they are doing to our assholes.  It's our own fault.  

Your thought process would be correct if we had to protect ourselves from a company bankruptcy. Of course that can alsways happen too but its not the biggest concern here.

The reason is simple. Producing ASIC-chips is getting very very cheap after the inital setup-phase. That means after planing, testing etc it basically costs a fraction of the inital costs. And therefore they can afford it easily to "print" some more chips and give them for free.

Thats also the reason they offer to give you free chips and not a free complete miner. Cause those costs stay the same.

So its not so much bankruptcy we have to be afraid. Its the much more likely option that the chips come a little to late. And against THAT risk their insurance could definitly make a difference. 

It's also. in general, a bad idea to take out insurance where the insurer is the same party as the one whose failure you're trying to insure against.

For small delays the premium will cost more than the value of the cover.
For large delays there's a non-trivial risk that the insurance will also default if the supplier defaults (nowhere is there any promise, let alone proof, of segregated funds able to cover all orders in full if there's a massive problem).

crumbs pretty much nailed it.


Sorry, needed a bit of time to compare our notes from the offering then with the current public (Baby Jet) MPP.

1. The premium on the "insurance" was substantial, and was only presented as an option at the highest level of bulk buy, which was well beyond what we calculated the IPO fundraising could achieve in the current competitive, highly-saturated mining investment market.
2. While it makes sense for a smaller mining operation to "buy into" the MPP deal by ordering from batch 1, we believe our scale implementation will mitigate the risk of not achieving an acceptable ROI better. These risk mitigation factors include:
   a) Economy of scale build-out: ensuring a lower bottom line and thus extended profitably.
   b) The MPP is a once-off deal. Our costs see a relative decrease as we add more future capacity according to the 25% re-investment clause. IOW We'd much rather spend the premium that would otherwise go toward insurance on buying extra hashing power for lower prices in the future. Remember, a 25% reinvestment will probably result in more than 25% capacity increase (otherwise we probably won't do it).

A lesser issue:
Clause 9 of the MPP offered to us: Any capacity due will be sent via a common shipper (Fedex, UPS or similar), as chips only, and to the same address as the original machines were sent. In the absence of an open reference design for the PCB, taking receipt of only the chips at our scale didn't really make sense. This is not to say that the reference design won't be made public in the 3 months leading up to the MPP trigger event, just that it was an unquantifiable unknown at the time. That said, the Baby Jet MPP offering alludes to the probability that Hashfast will open-source their PCB design or make it possible to license it out to other manufacturers, which is great.

Reading the final version which appeared @ hashfast.com a few hours ago I can say that the MPP has evolved really well from the community feedback Hashfast has received in the last few weeks. It's a great addition to the retail Baby Jet 1st batch offering. It pretty much cancels delivery date risk and is a huge huge deal. It's refreshing to see an ASIC company present something like this to sweeten the pre-order deal, listen to community feedback and adjust accordingly. It means they're doing their homework and we applaud them for it.

To be fair, they're *not* buying assembled miners @ retail -- they're buying lots of chips, wholesale.  Bulk orders of parts don't enjoy the same benefits as individual retail products.