Topic: [BitFunder] Ukyo.Loan - Paying 0.05% daily. - page 18. (Read 74626 times)

Now working on MGIO's request which came in before yours on the 8th and is rather large.
Redeems are first come first serve.
Best method for queue is to submit via btctalk PM.
Even with the Nov 1, I can not hold preference on those users over others.

70% of the requests came in on Monday. If I do not hear from someone in 48hrs I move on.
Many users respond that they are no longer interested/capable of redeem.

I will continue to work through redeems and satisfy the agreement.

-Ukyo

Can you at least tell us how you determined the que?  I messaged you here on BitcoinTalk on Oct' 8th as this was the procedure in the past and then decided to open a support ticket on Bitfunder yesterday just in case you hadn't given consideration to my private message in determining where I end up in the que.

It's this sort of information that you're leaving people in the dark with.  You do have some minor but important information to update us with frankly.  I don't agree that there's nothing to update.

- How great a percentage of outstanding redemption requests have you worked through so far?
- Is there a specific method of contacting you that results in a placement in the que?
- For American users, (I am not an American user) with the Nov' 1st deadline fast approaching affect their redemption requests?

So far as I can tell (please someone correct me if I'm wrong) you have not answered these questions or given out this information.  It would be nice to know responses to these points of interest.

I have lodged several requests with you over the past few weeks for contact privately.  I understand that you're busy but not in even a single instance have you said so much as "sorry, too busy right now" in response to any of these messages.  Again, while it's understandable that you're busy and while we can appreciate greatly that you're trying as best as you can to meet your obligations and apparently succeeding, until you actually have met those obligations you are doing nothing to give people any sense of predictability as to what's going on with their funds which you are in possession of.

Please give us a bit more detail.  It's the courteous thing to do and we don't even really need a whole lot.

Still processing requests in order.
Now stuck at a rather large redeem request covering 10%+ of the shares.

I will update as soon as there is something to update.

I will continue, as promised to pay out daily and redeem shares as funds can be made available.

-Ukyo

I seriously doubt there is any chanse anyone looses any portion of there investment in Ukyo's loan unless they act in panic.
Why would you say there is a large chanse anyone who dosen't sell off in panic looses a large protion of there investment ?
There is nothing that indicate that the BTC that Ukyo loaned has vaporised into thin air is there ?
Even if he has invested some BTC in fiat investments and btcprice starts to rise there shouldent be to hard for him to take up a secured loans in the fiatworld instead and payback the btcloan on bitfunder or take up some long positions on btc to reduce or eliminate currency risks that otherwise could come with a possible higher btcprice in the future if it ever looks like it could become a problem.

The dividends are all there now!

Ha, you still care about dividends, when there is a high risk you lose a large portion of your investment?

3 and soon 4 days late with the dividend on your loan now ukyu, when will it be fixed ?

Changes in asset list between October 24th and 27th.

2 new addresses. 10 addresses disappeared, all had few bonds. Bonds total 200,000 on both dates.

Addresses on 24th: 154.
Addresses on 27th: 146.

Largest gains: 1018, 742 and 600 bonds. All other small, less than 100 bond movements.

Looks like nearly all or all movements due to trading. Redeemed bonds during this time: zero to few hundreds.

I'll give Ukyo some time and analyze the data again sometimes in 3-4 week time.

In the current world, it would be pretty much impossible for anyone to set up a legitimate security exchange that complies with SEC regulations. Look how much trouble it is for the winklevoss twins just to create an ETF. And every single security would have to be registered with the sec. Not one of them would even come close to qualifying. IPOs are incredibly time consuming and expensive.

So don't blame ukyo. Anyone with half a brain should have realized bitfunder could never be legitimate from the start. The only thing that saved us was that we were too small for the sec to care before

I don't believe that. What you are telling me is that some secret government agency knocked on his door and threatened him in some way to shut down his site and he cant say anything about the confrontation?? What is this soviet russia?

By reading the chats by ukyo provided by the guy above its clear he knew exactly what was going to happen. He had planned to block US customers even before being contacted by anyone from the US government.

My complete guess as to what really happened with bitfunder is someone from SEC came to his door and carefully explained to him how he is breaking several US security laws that have been in place for decades and the penalties he would face if he didn't comply. It looks like ukyo never had any intention to comply with SEC and I think this is the real reason he hasn't said anything. His main goal it seemed with this site was to earn himself some bitcoins. Complying with SEC would definitely cost some money to do correctly and I think this could be why he doesnt want to. It is easier to just ignore SEC and continue with the semi-autonomous flow of bitcoins to his pocket.



He forgets to mention that with each one of these scams that has been found on his site, he makes a massive profit off the ridiculous trading fees

If he was contacted by the SEC and/or other US govt entities it is almost certain that he is not allowed to talk about what is going on. At least presently. In fact he has said exactly that.

I'm sure he is already working overtime just dealing with dealing with all bit finder/weexchange issues.

This is probably a good read:

http://irc.radiumsoup.com/freenode/labcoin/logs/index.php?up=ukyo&d=2013-09-27#msg9737

or

http://irc.radiumsoup.com/freenode/labcoin/logs/index.php?d=2013-09-27#msg9737 for the full conversation.

He was evaluating the option to block US users and start verification already on end of September.

QFT

But this is completely a guess based on nothing correct? The fact that we have no idea why he decided to block US customers is a testament to how untrustworthy he is. As far as I'm aware ukyo is currently managing in some where around thousands of bitcoins from "investors" or people using his site yet he is only able to communicate once every few weeks. Why people would continue to fill this guys wallet is beyond me.

I hope ukyo posts in this thread within the next couple of days. Especially if dividends continue to be late.

In the meantime it makes sense to start gathering whatever information we can about bitfunder, weexchange, and ukyo if legal action ends up being necessary. I'm still giving ukyo the benefit of the doubt and still a long way from pursuing legal remedies but it makes sense to look into what would need to be done if if comes to that in the meantime.

Looking at the asset list there are people with 10s of thousands of shares which equates to 10s of thousands of dollars and I'm sure those people would go to great lengths to reclaim their money. I'm surprised we don't see more of them posting here.

Also, it would be great if people who get their shares redeemed post here and state how roughly how long they were waiting.

Has anyone added up the shares on the asset list and seen how many are still outstanding?

Just like he should be redeeming shares "in reasonable time", which he says he is and I believe that he continues to do so. The question being discussed here is - assuming the contract is somehow broken, i.e. he is not able to either pay the interest or redeem the shares, that is the solution I believe to be less harming to those holding the bonds.

he should continue paying dividends as described in the original contract - anyone saying otherwise is acting out of self interest.
It was made clear in the original contract that redeeming shares from Ukyo may take some time  if assets needed to be liquidated etc you should never have assumed you could request redemption and receive it straight away.

In my opinion Ukyo should reduce interest to 0.01% daily and start redeeming at a rate of at least (but obviously more, if possible) the rest of the daily interest money (0.80 BTC/day). This would drive the bond price up, which would allow people in a hurry to sell at market with a lower loss than they face right now, and would still give reason for people not in a hurry to hold bonds.

I would hope he is redeeming far faster than that. 2 BTC a day means 1,000 days to redeem them all, or almost 3 years!!

I was guessing the rate would be 10 times that amount at least.

1BTC is 100 redeemed shares every day. We don't know at what rate he redeems them. Income from Bitfunder is lately just barely more than 1BTC per day. I don't know how much he gets from Weexchange, I think it's not much either.

We need numbers, but if no paying dividends makes him redeem twice as fast, say at the rate of 2BTC per day or 200 bonds per day, then I don't care about dividends. Take into consideration that trading at BitFunder will most likely decrease a lot once all Americans and those who don't want to verify will be out. They're still there and are driving most of trading that has been going on lately.