[BitFunder] Ukyo.Loan - Paying 0.05% daily. - page 9.

malkusch

newbie

Activity: 58

Merit: 0

Quote from: mgio on March 07, 2014, 05:12:23 PM

Quote from: malkusch on January 27, 2014, 05:47:46 AM

I suggest to create a new closed thread dedicated to Ukyo.Loan debtees to discuss the resolution constructively. That closed thread should be accessed by Ukyo plus deptees above a significant amount only.

This sounds like a good idea. Can you set this up?

I learned that this is not possible in this forum. The closest I could do is opening a self moderated thread and remove unwanted noise. That's not really what I had on mind when talking about a "closed thread". Plus I'm in a situation where I don't have that time. What I could easily do is setting up a dedicated forum for this matter. But I don't know if this is an acceptable alternative. I would also be happy to fly to a meeting where we all sit on a table with Ukyo and discuss the situation (I hate live meetings).

Quote from: ThickAsThieves on March 09, 2014, 08:50:41 AM

I'm a large holder, a new thread is useless. Just say/do what you have to say/do.

I'm very undecided about what to do with this loan situation. Before this Activeminer guy I was in a relaxed sit and wait mood, but this is unfortunately no more acceptable. The best would be active communication with Ukyo. I'd like to know what the current state is and what we have to expect for the future. And I want deadline. I contacted him vainly on several channels (but I'll try more). So I doubt there will come more information (especially not in this thread).

The next step would be for me personally to file a complaint. But only because it's easy and free. I don't expect much from it as my country is far away from Ukyo.

So next I would get legal advice from a lawyer closer to Ukyo's location and follow them. At this phase we're all in the same shoes. It's a time and cost intensive process. So it seems natural for me to aggregate. I'm also curious about the actions of the other holders.

glendall

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So basically Ukyo has stolen (until shown otherwise) over $5 million USD in today's fiat price of bitcoin.

SebastianJu

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Quote from: mgio on March 14, 2014, 11:44:03 AM

Quote from: SebastianJu on March 13, 2014, 05:48:54 PM

Quote from: ThickAsThieves on March 13, 2014, 05:37:40 PM

Quote from: SebastianJu on March 13, 2014, 05:34:17 PM

Whats the amount of bitcoins owed for ukyo loan? Did the loan run under ukyo personally alone or was a company involved? And do you think that the stock-like thing of selling shares will have an impact legally?

I believe it's 2000btc.

Ah... not bad... together with the 6k from weexchange its a big amount.

I thought only 2k was owed for the missing weexchange funds?

No, he paid back around 6% and somewhere claimed he paid back 3xx BTC at that time. Calculating that meant he owes over 6k btc for weexchange users.

mgio

hero member

Activity: 546

Merit: 500

Quote from: SebastianJu on March 13, 2014, 05:48:54 PM

Quote from: ThickAsThieves on March 13, 2014, 05:37:40 PM

Quote from: SebastianJu on March 13, 2014, 05:34:17 PM

Whats the amount of bitcoins owed for ukyo loan? Did the loan run under ukyo personally alone or was a company involved? And do you think that the stock-like thing of selling shares will have an impact legally?

I believe it's 2000btc.

Ah... not bad... together with the 6k from weexchange its a big amount.

I thought only 2k was owed for the missing weexchange funds?

thy

hero member

Activity: 685

Merit: 500

Quote from: SebastianJu on March 13, 2014, 05:48:54 PM

Quote from: ThickAsThieves on March 13, 2014, 05:37:40 PM

Quote from: SebastianJu on March 13, 2014, 05:34:17 PM

Whats the amount of bitcoins owed for ukyo loan? Did the loan run under ukyo personally alone or was a company involved? And do you think that the stock-like thing of selling shares will have an impact legally?

I believe it's 2000btc.

Ah... not bad... together with the 6k from weexchange its a big amount.

200 000 shares at 0.01 btc each so yea 2000 btc is the correct amount (plus 1.5% monthly interest so about 90 btc more from around dec 1 upp till now). Ukyo and Graet probably have some crossinvestments in each others loan thou and ukyo have some of his own stocks bought back so it's not the full 2000 btc outstanding.

SebastianJu

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Quote from: ThickAsThieves on March 13, 2014, 05:37:40 PM

Quote from: SebastianJu on March 13, 2014, 05:34:17 PM

Whats the amount of bitcoins owed for ukyo loan? Did the loan run under ukyo personally alone or was a company involved? And do you think that the stock-like thing of selling shares will have an impact legally?

I believe it's 2000btc.

Ah... not bad... together with the 6k from weexchange its a big amount.

ThickAsThieves

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: SebastianJu on March 13, 2014, 05:34:17 PM

Whats the amount of bitcoins owed for ukyo loan? Did the loan run under ukyo personally alone or was a company involved? And do you think that the stock-like thing of selling shares will have an impact legally?

I believe it's 2000btc.

SebastianJu

legendary

Activity: 2674

Merit: 1083

Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile

Whats the amount of bitcoins owed for ukyo loan? Did the loan run under ukyo personally alone or was a company involved? And do you think that the stock-like thing of selling shares will have an impact legally?

stereotype

legendary

Activity: 1554

Merit: 1000

Quote from: thy on March 10, 2014, 04:30:01 PM

Quote from: WeexUser on March 09, 2014, 06:42:13 PM

Quote from: Ukyo on July 18, 2013, 11:34:01 AM

Personal Loan to Ukyo
...
Description:
I have been presented with an interesting opportunity that I would prefer to not sell off other investments for.

Quote from: justusranvier on March 06, 2014, 02:49:29 AM

At the time he claimed to be working to get the necessary state-level MSB licensing and was preparing to have WeExchange take over the USD side of Mt Gox's businesses.

I am sure that this is the reason why he needed the loan.

I doubt that was the case, then they should have been able to start up with those states that don't need licensing much faster and the cost/timeframe for the remaining 43 states don't seem to match the loan size or time frame passed with what cryptsy and btcquick mentioned about the licensing subject.
But maby the ide with such possible project on weexchange is only to present the project when there already registered in all states and when they could work on the whole USA market. If that was the thought to act as a payment gateway to the FIAT/USD market in the USA then other actors in the btcsector than the now defunct mtgox could benefit from that in the future.

If there actually is such thing in the process then there's a huge trust issue for weexchange/Ukyo to work on now after how things have been handled the last couple of months.

Ukyo did have an intention to integrate with Gox around last summer. I was shown a mock-up of the integration page by Ukyo back then. But that project seemed to just die, with the Bitfunder problems starting a few months later, so not sure if there is a link there or not. However, i do believe it inconceivable that Ukyo did not have funds on Gox.

SOSLOVE868

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 250

Quote from: mgio on March 10, 2014, 03:53:26 PM

Quote from: SOSLOVE868 on March 09, 2014, 08:47:26 PM

Quote from: mgio on March 07, 2014, 05:11:37 PM

Quote from: SOSLOVE868 on March 06, 2014, 04:02:37 PM

Quote from: mgio on March 05, 2014, 04:21:09 PM

Quote from: glendall on March 05, 2014, 02:21:11 AM

Quote from: ADgordo on March 04, 2014, 08:34:22 PM

Quote from: SOSLOVE868 on March 04, 2014, 08:06:21 PM

guys, i need ukyo's company registration paper ...because I am going to find a lawyer to get back our BTC back. if anyone knows ,please share it with me ,thanks !!!

Or by costing him legal fees you will ruin us all.

How long do you plan to wait before you would consider that your money has been stolen. It has been about 3 months. So what then, wait another 3 months? 6? A year even?Would you even then, after a year, start to suspect your money was stolen? All the indicators point to this being the case, good luck with Jon coming back in the future and returning your money Undecided

It's a tough choice. He claims he has the money invested in new business ventures and that those investments should eventually return a profit allowing him to pay back the loan. Unfortunately he won't tell us what these ventures are or what their status is.

Since he has owned or ran several businesses in his life, he likely has some assets. If you sue him and he declares bankruptcy as a result, you won't get his house. The courts will likely let him keep that. But you may get something. After the lawyers take their giant share though. Before you do that, you should get a good idea of what his assets are.

I think I am still ukyo's biggest creditor, and I'm one of many. Ukyo's total liabilities are estimated at $2-$3 million between ukyo.loan and bitfunder. I'm getting a bit frustrated too. The well over hundred thousand that ukyo owes me would definitely make it worth my time to get the best lawyer I could find if I decide to go that route. Whatever you do, make sure you've thought it out very clearly first. You might end up costing yourself more money that you get out of it.

Do you want to join me with this ?the total liabilities from u and me is around 40k USD, and the legal cost for two of us should be the same as only one . it is worth to give a try, I think stay and waiting here would be useless. what you think?

I would, but I haven't decided definitely to go that route yet. I sent a message to ukyo a few days ago and I'm going to give him a chance to respond first.

Dear Mgio:
I would give him more time thought, the cost and time I spend to Dallas isn't cheap , but Ukyo never reply My message, I do not know about u ?did he reply to u ?

The last I heard from him was at the end of January. That was before the MtGox collapse. If his new business venture was taking over business for MtGox in the US, then that is all lost now. In that case, the only thing left to do would be to contact our lawyers and force him to liquidate his remaining assets to pay off the loan. There is a possibility that his business ventures were not tied to MtGox, but until I hear from him otherwise, I'm going to assume that that isn't the case. I messaged him about two weeks ago and I haven't heard anything back yet. I'll give him another week or two. I'm sure he is really busy but he should at least be able to spend the time keeping in contact with his creditors. The total value of ukyo.loan is still well over a million dollars.

I am going fly to Dallas this sunday, I have contact with a attorney already, I made a pointment with him by monday morning, Hope I can get some wise suggestion from him.

thy

hero member

Activity: 685

Merit: 500

Quote from: WeexUser on March 09, 2014, 06:42:13 PM

Quote from: Ukyo on July 18, 2013, 11:34:01 AM

Personal Loan to Ukyo
...
Description:
I have been presented with an interesting opportunity that I would prefer to not sell off other investments for.

Quote from: justusranvier on March 06, 2014, 02:49:29 AM

At the time he claimed to be working to get the necessary state-level MSB licensing and was preparing to have WeExchange take over the USD side of Mt Gox's businesses.

I am sure that this is the reason why he needed the loan.

I doubt that was the case, then they should have been able to start up with those states that don't need licensing much faster and the cost/timeframe for the remaining 43 states don't seem to match the loan size or time frame passed with what cryptsy and btcquick mentioned about the licensing subject.
But maby the ide with such possible project on weexchange is only to present the project when there already registered in all states and when they could work on the whole USA market. If that was the thought to act as a payment gateway to the FIAT/USD market in the USA then other actors in the btcsector than the now defunct mtgox could benefit from that in the future.

If there actually is such thing in the process then there's a huge trust issue for weexchange/Ukyo to work on now after how things have been handled the last couple of months.

mgio

hero member

Activity: 546

Merit: 500

Quote from: SOSLOVE868 on March 09, 2014, 08:47:26 PM

Quote from: mgio on March 07, 2014, 05:11:37 PM

Quote from: SOSLOVE868 on March 06, 2014, 04:02:37 PM

Quote from: mgio on March 05, 2014, 04:21:09 PM

Quote from: glendall on March 05, 2014, 02:21:11 AM

Quote from: ADgordo on March 04, 2014, 08:34:22 PM

Quote from: SOSLOVE868 on March 04, 2014, 08:06:21 PM

guys, i need ukyo's company registration paper ...because I am going to find a lawyer to get back our BTC back. if anyone knows ,please share it with me ,thanks !!!

Or by costing him legal fees you will ruin us all.

How long do you plan to wait before you would consider that your money has been stolen. It has been about 3 months. So what then, wait another 3 months? 6? A year even?Would you even then, after a year, start to suspect your money was stolen? All the indicators point to this being the case, good luck with Jon coming back in the future and returning your money Undecided

It's a tough choice. He claims he has the money invested in new business ventures and that those investments should eventually return a profit allowing him to pay back the loan. Unfortunately he won't tell us what these ventures are or what their status is.

Since he has owned or ran several businesses in his life, he likely has some assets. If you sue him and he declares bankruptcy as a result, you won't get his house. The courts will likely let him keep that. But you may get something. After the lawyers take their giant share though. Before you do that, you should get a good idea of what his assets are.

I think I am still ukyo's biggest creditor, and I'm one of many. Ukyo's total liabilities are estimated at $2-$3 million between ukyo.loan and bitfunder. I'm getting a bit frustrated too. The well over hundred thousand that ukyo owes me would definitely make it worth my time to get the best lawyer I could find if I decide to go that route. Whatever you do, make sure you've thought it out very clearly first. You might end up costing yourself more money that you get out of it.

Do you want to join me with this ?the total liabilities from u and me is around 40k USD, and the legal cost for two of us should be the same as only one . it is worth to give a try, I think stay and waiting here would be useless. what you think?

I would, but I haven't decided definitely to go that route yet. I sent a message to ukyo a few days ago and I'm going to give him a chance to respond first.

Dear Mgio:
I would give him more time thought, the cost and time I spend to Dallas isn't cheap , but Ukyo never reply My message, I do not know about u ?did he reply to u ?

The last I heard from him was at the end of January. That was before the MtGox collapse. If his new business venture was taking over business for MtGox in the US, then that is all lost now. In that case, the only thing left to do would be to contact our lawyers and force him to liquidate his remaining assets to pay off the loan. There is a possibility that his business ventures were not tied to MtGox, but until I hear from him otherwise, I'm going to assume that that isn't the case. I messaged him about two weeks ago and I haven't heard anything back yet. I'll give him another week or two. I'm sure he is really busy but he should at least be able to spend the time keeping in contact with his creditors. The total value of ukyo.loan is still well over a million dollars.

SOSLOVE868

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 250

Quote from: mgio on March 07, 2014, 05:11:37 PM

Quote from: SOSLOVE868 on March 06, 2014, 04:02:37 PM

Quote from: mgio on March 05, 2014, 04:21:09 PM

Quote from: glendall on March 05, 2014, 02:21:11 AM

Quote from: ADgordo on March 04, 2014, 08:34:22 PM

Quote from: SOSLOVE868 on March 04, 2014, 08:06:21 PM

guys, i need ukyo's company registration paper ...because I am going to find a lawyer to get back our BTC back. if anyone knows ,please share it with me ,thanks !!!

Or by costing him legal fees you will ruin us all.

How long do you plan to wait before you would consider that your money has been stolen. It has been about 3 months. So what then, wait another 3 months? 6? A year even?Would you even then, after a year, start to suspect your money was stolen? All the indicators point to this being the case, good luck with Jon coming back in the future and returning your money Undecided

It's a tough choice. He claims he has the money invested in new business ventures and that those investments should eventually return a profit allowing him to pay back the loan. Unfortunately he won't tell us what these ventures are or what their status is.

Since he has owned or ran several businesses in his life, he likely has some assets. If you sue him and he declares bankruptcy as a result, you won't get his house. The courts will likely let him keep that. But you may get something. After the lawyers take their giant share though. Before you do that, you should get a good idea of what his assets are.

I think I am still ukyo's biggest creditor, and I'm one of many. Ukyo's total liabilities are estimated at $2-$3 million between ukyo.loan and bitfunder. I'm getting a bit frustrated too. The well over hundred thousand that ukyo owes me would definitely make it worth my time to get the best lawyer I could find if I decide to go that route. Whatever you do, make sure you've thought it out very clearly first. You might end up costing yourself more money that you get out of it.

Do you want to join me with this ?the total liabilities from u and me is around 40k USD, and the legal cost for two of us should be the same as only one . it is worth to give a try, I think stay and waiting here would be useless. what you think?

I would, but I haven't decided definitely to go that route yet. I sent a message to ukyo a few days ago and I'm going to give him a chance to respond first.

Dear Mgio:
I would give him more time thought, the cost and time I spend to Dallas isn't cheap , but Ukyo never reply My message, I do not know about u ?did he reply to u ?

WeexUser

member

Activity: 120

Merit: 10

Quote from: Ukyo on July 18, 2013, 11:34:01 AM

Personal Loan to Ukyo
...
Description:
I have been presented with an interesting opportunity that I would prefer to not sell off other investments for.

Quote from: justusranvier on March 06, 2014, 02:49:29 AM

At the time he claimed to be working to get the necessary state-level MSB licensing and was preparing to have WeExchange take over the USD side of Mt Gox's businesses.

I am sure that this is the reason why he needed the loan.

thy

hero member

Activity: 685

Merit: 500

Quote from: ThickAsThieves on March 09, 2014, 08:50:41 AM

Quote from: B15K3 on March 09, 2014, 07:18:23 AM

Even though I only own about 400 shares I think this is a really good idea. I can understand that Ukyo doesn't want to post here with all the trolls around. So we should try to establish a reasonable discussion and this is a good way to do so!

I'm a large holder, a new thread is useless. Just say/do what you have to say/do.

No trolls matter unless you let them matter. Stop distracting yourselves with it.

I gave my suggestions, has anyone approached Ukyo about liquidating assets? Has anyone researched what assets he held on Bitfunder, etc? I know he owns stocks in several ongoing concerns.

Ukyo, will you answer this? Can you liquidate your crypto-stocks to make a proportional buyback and dividend payout to ukyo.loan holders? Do you need help with liquidation?

I haven't checked exactly what Ukyo had for assets on Bitfuder before today, did he have several account or only one ?
Did he have large private investments in stocks off the official books like some thought in another thread where they tried to trace transactions from bitfunder, 5000 btc or something i think it was they mentioned sent to one asset that was listed on Bitfunder ?

From what i can see based on last prices (in the case of prices that is from bitfunder on stocks that haven't relisted on other exchanges many of those stocks prices were pressed down a lot in price at the time), then in the account i think one can tie to him he had assets/shares valued in the region of 1500 btc based on that but some of the assets might be problematic to liquidate fast and other he may have to go the legal way to get what is his like in the Activeminer case where Ken slaghter illegally dumped/force sold Ukyo shares, at least he claimed it was ukyo shares he sold.

ThickAsThieves

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: B15K3 on March 09, 2014, 07:18:23 AM

Even though I only own about 400 shares I think this is a really good idea. I can understand that Ukyo doesn't want to post here with all the trolls around. So we should try to establish a reasonable discussion and this is a good way to do so!

I'm a large holder, a new thread is useless. Just say/do what you have to say/do.

No trolls matter unless you let them matter. Stop distracting yourselves with it.

I gave my suggestions, has anyone approached Ukyo about liquidating assets? Has anyone researched what assets he held on Bitfunder, etc? I know he owns stocks in several ongoing concerns.

Ukyo, will you answer this? Can you liquidate your crypto-stocks to make a proportional buyback and dividend payout to ukyo.loan holders? Do you need help with liquidation?

B15K3

newbie

Activity: 29

Merit: 0

Even though I only own about 400 shares I think this is a really good idea. I can understand that Ukyo doesn't want to post here with all the trolls around. So we should try to establish a reasonable discussion and this is a good way to do so!

thy

hero member

Activity: 685

Merit: 500

Sorted the list after number of shares, so it's easier to look at, think i got it right.

Code:

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ADgordo

member

Activity: 203

Merit: 10

The World’s First Blockchain Core

Quote from: malkusch on March 08, 2014, 12:10:11 AM

Quote from: ThickAsThieves on March 07, 2014, 11:31:40 PM

No one bondholder is more important than the rest, regardless of size of debt.

No one questions this. And this is also one motivation of becoming active. Entities are getting their part of the pie before the rest (I refer to that Activemining situation).

There are people involved with >100BTC in Ukyo.Loan. Considering the available information, sitting around and waiting seems to me no more viable. We all have the same interest in this story. It seems to me natural to aggregate resources and come together (with Ukyo) in a constructive discussion to a viable solution.

A thread where people are repeating non constructive accusations, verbal harassments and even personal threats (or was it the WeEx thread… I might mix them up) is no space for a constructive discussion with Ukyo. Going into a closed thread with a reasonable threshold seemed to me a attempt to find a progressing solution. Again: Nobody will put their interests above others! It's just about making progress. At the end everybody will be treated equally. I just want to find together a reasonable strategy for this story.

If you have a better solution I'm more than happy to learn about it. I'm so sorry but I came to a part where just sitting around and waiting with no information is no more viable for me.

Proportional hits are a standard. Whatever is done, make sure it is constructive.

malkusch

newbie

Activity: 58

Merit: 0

Quote from: ThickAsThieves on March 07, 2014, 11:31:40 PM

No one bondholder is more important than the rest, regardless of size of debt.

No one questions this. And this is also one motivation of becoming active. Entities are getting their part of the pie before the rest (I refer to that Activemining situation).

There are people involved with >100BTC in Ukyo.Loan. Considering the available information, sitting around and waiting seems to me no more viable. We all have the same interest in this story. It seems to me natural to aggregate resources and come together (with Ukyo) in a constructive discussion to a viable solution.

A thread where people are repeating non constructive accusations, verbal harassments and even personal threats (or was it the WeEx thread… I might mix them up) is no space for a constructive discussion with Ukyo. Going into a closed thread with a reasonable threshold seemed to me a attempt to find a progressing solution. Again: Nobody will put their interests above others! It's just about making progress. At the end everybody will be treated equally. I just want to find together a reasonable strategy for this story.

If you have a better solution I'm more than happy to learn about it. I'm so sorry but I came to a part where just sitting around and waiting with no information is no more viable for me.

Topic: [BitFunder] Ukyo.Loan - Paying 0.05% daily. - page 9. (Read 74721 times)