Topic: BITMAIN announces Antpool - page 95. (Read 383063 times)

It would be possible for the 'p2p' pool as described by Bitmain, for their share of the tx fees.
Miners mining on this pool are not p2pool miners, and do not have to run bitcoind or p2pool itself.
They connect to a pool just like any other, except that in this case the pool is a p2pool node.
The pool is the node, and would recieve the coinbase payout.
It would then pay the miners the portion of the 25BTC payout that Bitmain received, according to PPLNS, and keep the tx fees portion of the payout itself.

Day 3.  

Still have the same problem.

Automatic withdrawal did not execute.  

I am unable to see the BTC address I originally entered when setting up the account.  

I am unable to change or add an address for BTC. withdrawal.

I have emailed the bitmain email address twice and got a single response stating the payout schedule.  Not helpful.

I tried the ticket system multiple times with multiple failures as already documented by others. The last time I tried it worked and the ticket is in "waiting" status.

I have posted on here and got a response from "dogie" which was unhelpful as it offered no resolution or path to resolution.  I responded to his thoughts with further clarification and have not yet heard back from him.


I got a response from xlc1985 stating


It's currently 17:16 in Bejing on the third day of this problem.  


An aside

...you know...my very first miner was a S1.  They are tough little guys that I have pushed since day one and never had a problem. I even chopped the heatsinks down turned them 90 degrees screwed them back on and stuffed 4 full units in a 2U Dell 2950 server case with the 2 stock 750w psu's driving them overclocked!  When the S3 came out I bought a bunch of those because the S1's where bulletproof and I could buy a couple at a time. (helping the smaller home miner like me was a great attraction to Bitmain) Which lead to buying a bunch of S3's and subsequently S3+'s. While a bit disappointed about the specs they, too have been great little machines and I have been a happy loyal bitmain customer.  So much so, that when they announced the HASHNEST project I dipped my toe in and tried it - because I liked what bitmain stood for and the products they produced. Although not a spectacular success, I have recovered my investment and chalked HASHNEST down to "just doesn't work for me".  Then the C1 arrives and so I buy a couple to test the water (pun intended).  So far they've been great and I believe they'll be just as bulletproof as all the other Ants I have.

So up until now I have had nothing but positive experiences with Bitmain and while reading about the issues that other were having with various products, I never needed to make use of the support capabilities. I feel like I've been growing along with Bitmain as "we've" expanded and tired new things - most successful, some not so much.  

But this episode is very seriously eroding my faith in the firm.  Maybe they've grown too much and simply don't have the infrastructure in place to support the new endeavors?  Maybe they simply don't care about the "little guy" anymore?  I understand that "dogie" is a paid "facilitator" for them and I'm sure he's helped a lot of people.  In fact, I used his guides extensively when I first started looking at BTC hardware.  BUT there is a difference between solving problems  - and offering advice or thoughts on a subject.

I'm concerned and a little let down, perhaps irrationally so, with Bitmain.  I fully understand that problems are going to occur.  It's a fact of life that things simply don't work all the time, and that doesn't really bother me.  What does bother me is how this firm is dealing with its problems.  We shall see...

Fortunately I, too, have grown and after cutting my teeth with Bitmain, a couple of Spondoolies products are in the rack and I have a feeling that they'll be joined by more soon.  

I just wish my fondness for Bitmain could remain intact a bit longer....

Sigh - you really need to learn about something before posting.
They've explained it above already, but I'll try it in detail.

Everyone else running p2pool will not allow Bitmain to siphon off the tx fees to an address - since it will break the rules required of the generation transaction in their version, no matter how Bitmain try to do it.

Thus what would happen if Bitmain started mining on the real p2pool, is that their > 51% would be a true > 51% attack and fork the share chain and then be a separate share chain unrelated to the standard p2pool share chain.

I'm not sure of the full ramifications of that, but I suspect it would mean 2 separate p2pools, one running the true p2pool code by forrestv and another running the forked code.

There is of course something worse than that if Bitmain didn't fork the chain and used a valid generation transaction:
p2pool would sudenly overnight be about 10 times bigger so everyone mining would find 1/10 of the shares they are currently finding ... thus it would be pretty much common for most p2pool miners (using the official forrestv code) to rarely if ever get any payouts.

yep we are on the same page now, thanks for taking a few minutes to see what i was referring to. i pm'ed bitmain here and sent them an email post business time china yesterday. i'm sure we'll get it figured out, they've been very helpful every time i've contacted them. your guide got me up and running from scratch first day my package arrived from china, so thank you for that too.

as to  my thought on the 0% fee... i'd guestimate at least half the hash rate on antpool is bitmain. even if they charged 1% that's only getting 0.5% across the board for all hashing. just my non technical thoughts that carry no value other than wild speculation  regardless it's paying well so far. even with my missing block payment from yesterday and an hour to 2 down for whatever i'm still beating my predicted earnings for 48 hours so far, so that makes  me moderately contented for now.

PPLNS block transaction fees help pay for the pool, INCLUDING the p2pool side. It doesn't mean p2pool side is providing transaction fees.

Even if it was possible - it's not a 0% fee if they take the Tx fees......

But like you say, it's just not possible. They seem to want to be going into direct competition with p2pool instead of promoting it. How will their version be able to work with p2pool like they say if it's using a different share chain? It can't.

This is not possible on the existing p2pool share chain. Every p2pool node would have to upgrade(?) to bitmains version.

JonnnyB, no point in trying to argue the p2pool case with dogie, the fact that he thinks TX fees go to the node shows clearly that he is pretty clueless about the workings of p2pool - and he'll only neg-rep you anyway.....   I wish Bitmain would tell him to stop posting on subjects he knows nothing about.

Let's see what they put on git......

@ Bitmain: Has there been any communication between your engineers & forrestv at all?

I agree with most things you've said, with the cavet that we have to be happy and try *something* (which I think you still agreed with). Having no solution to this problem just leads to p2pool being discarded and everyone going back to as many pools as possible. We have to try something to fix it, which I believe Bitmain is as it throws significant money and engineers at the problem.

I don't believe I'm missing the point at all.  I speculated earlier in this thread on how to achieve a solution for the variance problem - by throwing a typical PPLNS pool on top of the p2pool backbone.  Yes, this certainly helps the small miner; however, it does absolutely nothing for the decentralization issue.  In fact, it does exactly the opposite.  Not only that, but it makes it that much harder for the user of the standard p2pool framework because the network takes on the additional load of the miners using Bitmain's p2pool setup.

One of the beauties of p2pool as it stands now is the ability for a user to move from node to node and continue to mine.  For example, I have my own local node that I run on my laptop and a VPS node that I use when I'm traveling for work.  I turn off my laptop and my miners seamlessly move onto the new node.  I can have any number of backup nodes configured and move between them at will.

The underlying problem is expounded precisely because of the ability for me to move from node to node.  My shares are broadcast to every other node.  Everybody knows everything about everyone.  That's decentralization at its finest.  Take down one node, and move the miners to another without interruption or concern.  The p2pool network continues on, as do your miners.  To accomplish this feat of decentralization p2pool relies upon the share chain.  However, as I pointed out, the price you pay for this is variance.  Because the share chain is nothing more than a simple incarnation of a SHA-256 coin, the more hash rate you have, the higher the difficulty of the share becomes.

How does Bitmain solve this problem?  I suppose time will tell and the code will show, and I'm looking forward to seeing what the folks at Bitmain have done.  Believe me, I'm one of the believers in p2pool.  I've spent many hours going through the code, posting in the forums and of course mining on it.  My post above was made to show that simply throwing hash at p2pool does not address the problems inherent in the system, but rather makes them more visibly prominent.

The ticket link you're referring to is visible from every page. It takes you direct to the bitmain ticket system here: https://support.bitmain.com/questions/pending (if logged in, else prompts to login).

The 'Support' page is more of an FAQ page like everyone else has: https://www.btcguild.com/index.php?page=support

Bug reported for Antpool support tickets not going anywhere, I think its to do with there being no categories selectable.

You're missing the point of this. Antpool (p2pmode) gets rid of the variance problem for anyone using Antpool in p2pool mode. Yes it makes it more difficult for everyone else temporarily but its a necessary step in order to fix the problem. With the open sourced code, anyone else is free to open their own p2pool pool. With a few of these set up, every p2pool miner can move to a p2pool based pool.

P2pool overall hashrate goes up so it gets more market share and individual miners get the benefits associated with pooled hash rate. No more variance.

Hi

Hi OVRGRO,

May you PM us your account to check your payout exactly?
Our apologies for the inconvenience of ticket, will check the problem you described ASAP.

Wrong again, & again, & again........

You don't have a clue what you are talking about dogie. Stop posting on this thread - go away.

no, i mean https://www.antpool.com/support.htm  from there on the very bottom right side says ticket. click on it, from there you can fill out whatever you want under antpool and hit submit, nothing happens. i'll give it a few more hours before i go the regular info@bm route. somebody should be out there for the pool issues specifically. it's ridiculous a block payment doesn't show up for a 5 minute block when the time payment does. got both payments for the preceding and following blocks just fine. it is as unlikely my 2 s3s were hashing at 0 for 5 minutes as it was they were averaging 1.8T for 10 minutes



i had only been running 21-22 hours, which is why my 24 hr hadn't reached 490-500ish.

Thank you for your time jonnybravo0311!!!!!
As i said whole thing is a complete bulshit a few pages ago.
Bitmain propaganda roughly sounds like this:
1. My Miners SW sucks and it is closed code
2. I do not want/will fix them in near feature
3. But i will make a miracle with 0% fee "Decentralized" pool and loose a ton of $$$ (server rent staff salary, support) just because i want you to maximize your "profits" and mining speed

He can maximize your mining speed manipulating pool stats but I can not say same about your profit folks
At the end what matters is not your pool stats but your payouts

Meanwhile there are a couple of tricks which pool op can do to pay for pool expenses even with 0% fee - which will decrease your payouts even more

THINK!

Exactly this.  While I commend your vision of promoting decentralization, the biggest single flaw in p2pool as it currently exists is that of variance.  Please understand that in your typical pool, the more hash rate you dump on the pool, the less variance is experienced by miners.  Exactly the opposite happens in p2pool because of the nature of the underlying share chain.

If you suddenly double, triple, quadruple the overall pool hash rate, you make it that much more difficult for individual miners to find shares.  Let me share some maths with you to help explain things.  First, let's take a look at the current p2pool situation (as of right now):
So, right now a miner with 1TH/s of hashing power should expect to find a share every 18.3 hours or so.

Let's see what happens when the overall pool's hash rate jumps to 10 PH/s.  First, we need to calculate the difficulty of finding a share:
The share difficulty has now jumped up to near 70 million.  Plug that back into the equation for our miner with 1 TH/s:
Now that miner would expect to find a share just about every 3.5 days.

Therein lies the problem.  That poor miner with 1 TH/s went from expecting to find a share every 18 hours to near 3.5 days.  Sure, overall you'd expect the pool itself to be finding more blocks, but that individual miner is going to be missing out on quite a few of them.

As you increase the hash rate of the pool, the share difficulty increases to compensate.  The more the share difficulty increases, the harder it becomes for a miner to find a share.  Why?  Because finding a share is effectively solo mining a coin.  Let's play a game and assume for a second that the ENTIRE bitcoin network switched over and started mining on p2pool.  How does our poor miner with 1 TH/s fare then?  Let's find out:
It would take on average 98.4 days for the 1 TH/s miner to find a share.

The entire point of this exercise was to say that simply increasing the hash rate of the p2pool network is NOT the solution to p2pool's problems.  In fact, just blindly adding hash rate will probably have the exact opposite effect you're hoping to achieve.  If you want people to mine p2pool and promote the decentralization, you need to make p2pool an attractive option to them.  High variance is not a very good selling point.

Hi, we will solve the problem as soon as possible, we now is the day UTC 00:00 - 01:00 pay, manual to mention the function being developed and tested, will soon provide use immediately

If you have not fixed the variance problem for smaller miners all you will achieve by dumping a bunch of hashrate on p2pool is to drive out the smaller miners, many of which are using your equipment.