Topic: Bitmain's Released Antminer S9, World's First 16nm Miner Ready to Order - page 137. (Read 531168 times)

Well, if you're wanting to generate cash flow, then you don't want to start 10 "in you house" nor do you want to buy 10 T9s that use 3,388.2W more to produce the same hashrate as 10 S9s.

"Should I buy 10 of these or 10 or the T9. Planning on building my first farm. Want to start it in my house and once I figured it out and it generates enough cash flow to rent a place out for it and scale it up."

Serious question I am thinking about investing some money into these and want to try to a little mining side business and expand it after they pay themselves off.

1. Proof = data, not anecdotal claims with no proof of themselves. There's a reason that no court in the world allows hearsay.
2. As I said no consumer ROI = no consumers.
3a. Bold = emphasis. I knew you had trouble reading English, but I didn't know you didn't understand the basic principles of the language.  
3b. I'm way too lazy to explain to you that (aside from a few cases) "underclocking" combined with "overvolting" isn't a thing that's a good idea to do or ever suggested by anyone (even glancing at your incoherent "paragraph" on old GPUs, one would think that you would now this already) .
4. It's cute that I say "modern" and you think that 2007-2012 qualifies, it explains the mentality you approach this all with.  

Yeah, because anyone that promotes consumer responsibility must be in league with a manufacturer.  

1. proof has been given by multiple people in this thread so read up buddy.

2. they do not care about roi...they got paid upfront multiple times more than the cost of the machine so they only care about getting past the 180 day threshold with the buyer and not about if the miner runs or not. their warranty also says if anything burns up due to component failure (which is common for almost all component failures especially ones with high amounts of power running through them lol) the warranty is voided out so again they dont care how long they last past a set amount of time they have determined in house. they wouldnt publicly post that info either because it can cost them business. its sort of like the well believed "planned obsolesce" in the tech/appliance/consumer products in general industry. if companies made them to last customers wouldnt consider buying replacements as fast and in bitmains case if 1 s9 dies thats 1 less s9 competition against them. they get their money and reduced competition at the mining lvl. that is what is known as a win win my friend. are u familiar with that term??

3. im not sure why your bolding the word "ARE" like im disagreeing with your classification lol but whatevs buddy. ne way lowering the freq of the chip makes the chip use less power. the voltage can go up all it wants the fact is the current draw goes down which when you do the math equals less wattage being used which again proves it uses less power. im not sure what argument your trying to win but it seems like your confirming what i said in over what....20+ posts now?? ty i guess lol.

4. i guess u have to have run a gpu mining farm (only 145 cards but for me that seemed like alot. others dont have to agree) to be able to comment on it so since u havent i will share some info on how i did things. my gpus wouldnt run at higher than 80% capacity. i treated them like i would treat a power supply and never maxed it out past 80% except for when im finding the sweet spot for that config. each card has slight differences so the sweet spot may or may not be the same as every other card your running of the same model/specs. besides you cant know what 80% capacity of that particular card is until u know what the max it can handle is...its common sense.  maybe i was too anal and maybe not but i know my gpus didnt die. they also didnt need to be repasted like other gpus i tried buying that were run at 100%. they were unloading them in a bulk sale but i wanted to check the paste beforehand to see how they were treated and good thing i did....it had become completely useless. meanwhile mine until the day i sold them all (xfx 7950 DD's) had 0 of the same issues the other cards i was looking at buying in bulk had. i also tried buying the cards from other miners locally as well and they had the same problems so it wasnt a 1 time fluke associated with 1 deal so sorry buddy but if u just looked the info up u would know all of this. i mean ur super techy right?? u werent around during the crazy days of nvidia 8800 series video cards in both laptops and desktops and how they would overheat?? i guess thats one notch in the child column lol.



lol couldnt have said it better myself. maybe he thinks spewing ignorance as a defense long enough will 1 make him believable or 2 make mr wu wanna give him a job/free miners?? either is possible i think but neither will happen lol.

Numbnutz,
I'm not sure which you understand less: economics, profit vs loss, or electronics.

• Bitmain will always care about longevity weighed against consumer ROI. They have to or more units would fail than the market would accept and they would go out of business.
• If you choose to ignore every basic principle of earnings, then it's pointless to even get a miner made by any company.
• When you lower the frequency of a chip, increase the voltage to that chip (yes this actually happens when you lower the frequency), stick it in a room that is 15-20F over even the highest computer (yes, these things are computers) industry recommendations, and ignore the manufacturer's researched cooling curves, it's on you that you have a chip-oven bent on doing the exact opposite of that you think it will/should do.
• Your claims about GPUs suggest you've also done no research on folding or any other modern distributed computing projects.
• Still waiting on this "proof" that you keep claiming to have.

i have proof that they run the miners hotter. not only was it posted in this thread but i also have pre auto tunes batched and post auto tunes batches and the temps are very very different. the post auto tuned batches clearly slow the fan speed down to make them run at a desired floor temp programmed into the firmware. the pre auto tuned miners run at a constant speed with no such floor in the temp config. i know post auto tuned miners can have more chips as well which generate more heat but if that was the cause of the almost 20 degree difference the fans on the auto tuned miners wouldnt need to have a floor set because they would run at a steady speed so those extra chips arent the cause of the spike. if i run the fans at the same speed on both miners the temps are about the same and hover around 80-90 degrees at the chip. some are lower than 80 but it really has alot to do with heatsink placement and if they are perfectly straight. so i used miners with the same speeds so the numbers would be similar to see if they mirror one another with ever so slight differences which again can be blamed on the placememnt of the heatsinks.

i didnt claim a single thing related to efficiency as far as i know. its been a while but lowering the clock speed on miners as far back as the s3 didnt increase efficiency one bit if im remembering correctly so i wouldnt claim that. maybe thats where your confused? you can make them more efficient but that takes mods using either a pencil or swapping out components so that is beyond what the normal hobby miner is willing or even capable of doing.

now to correct you fully...i (and multiple others) said a low power mode would be beneficial for people running their miners in a warmer environment for example in the summer time and their ac unit cant efficiently cool the house and all the extra heat being pumped into it. without a low power mode what options do they have?? well only 1 to be exact....turn the entire miner off which generates $0 for the entire time it sits collecting dust. every ac unit has a cooling capacity (and heres where your choice use of the acronym btu comes into play) and that capacity cannot be increased ever...sure there are ways for example swapping out the unit with a larger compressor but that isnt feasible for a hobby miner so for the sake of this convo we are considering that impossible. anyway if the ac unit can handle a portion of extra heat then a low power mode will effectively allow him to run the miner during these conditions vs not running it at all and based on your roi argument (not much of an argument since bitmain doesnt care if we roi or not) that would be the end of the god damn world as we know it lol. or are you saying running some isnt better than running none at all??

a gpu fan isnt make to move large amounts of air over the heatsink. they can move alot for their size but there are limitations. gpus arent supposed to run at 100% all the time...they can handle short bursts of 100% power being pushed through it but not constant. even in ice cold temps 100% usage isnt good period. but the main convo isnt about gpus its about s9's. gpus are also not locked by their firmware to run the miners at a steady 100+ degrees c now are they? but s9's are firmware locked to do just that. you admit higher temps arent ok for video cards but you dont agree that the temps these machines run at isnt safe too?? how can it be safe for one and not safe for another?? they arent using components designed for ballz hot temps but even if they were what is the reason for rampin fans up and down from 30% to max sped every couple of seconds?? what benefit would have have vs running them at a steady constant speed which will dramatically lower temps on those miners. running them cooler doesnt lower the hashrate....i tried it and my ato tuned miners run at the same hashrate when the fan is constant and when the fan ramps up all over the same place so what justification is there for adding stress to the components??

i claim that the roi isnt an argument. bitmain didnt remove features from the config page to ensure we saw a return on our invesment. do u believe bitmain has our best interests in mind? why would they care what i make from their miner? i can go buy a brand new s9 right now and put it on a shelf in my basement...do u think bitmain will email me asking why i havent turned it on yet to start mining coins?? nopeeeeeee....they got their money.....so running it at a lower speed and making less isnt a factor in their decission making. they wanted to run the boards hotter but for what reason??

you say there isnt anything to reply to but i have asked maybe 15 questions none of which get answered. others asked questions that werent answered either lol. uk what ur doin. ur in a corner....u can either keep tryin to talk around in circles or u can stop replyin....one or the other....doesnt bother me either way.

You haven't said anything to comment on.
You make wide-casting speculations with no data. Terms like "hotter" and "cooler" are relative and without context.

Yes an "underclocked" miner in a room that is 60F will be "more efficient" than a stock clock in a room that's 78F, until you calculate the cost and "efficiency" rating of cooling a room to 60F while running a 5,000BTU heater inside that room.

You go on about Googling random anecdotal posts on the internet where miners are failing because they are too hot, while ignoring that the majority of them are being run in ambient temps that are too high to begin with. Would you put a gaming PC in a 100F room and expect the gfx card to hold out while running at 100% usage 24/7? (That's rhetorical, because we both know the answer is, "No!")

You claim that ROI is none of my concern, if you truly believe that, then my beliefs (which are based in the factual realm) are none of your concern and you can go away now.

Please call don't make the common assumption of your countrymen and assume the entire internet is populated by and is the domain of the misspelling American.

Now I'm afraid as you persist in quoting, while feeding, the troll I shall have to put you in on ignore as well.

Cheers!
[/quote]

lol idc if u ignore me kiddo. im not sure why you would announce that then block me....did you want to get the last word or something? i would have let you have it if it made you feel better about yourself. honestly idk u and have no problem with u and didnt even say ne thing to u until u posted insults bashing me for no reason. now you just look like a rude person that is willing to post insults but the moment he gets one fired back at him (a perfectly valid one at that lol) you get butthurt and go into block mode. dont be so sensitive next time princess. if you hadnt replied none of this would have happened. it is nice that u double checked your spellin this time though before posting insults. we wouldnt want 2 fumbles in a row now would we?

Please call don't make the common assumption of your countrymen and assume the entire internet is populated by and is the domain of the misspelling American.

Now I'm afraid as you persist in quoting, while feeding, the troll I shall have to put you in on ignore as well.

Cheers!

oops you are correct this time...you did say ambient temps of the room so that was my mistake. everything else is still 100% valid and you havent responded to ne of it. care to comment? one incorrect tiny mistake on my part doesnt make every other statement invalid. or r u not addressing it because you ran out of room in those circles your running in?? i have learned over the years that no matter what the person talking in circles always gets backed into a corner because as the convo goes on their arguments break down 1 at a time. that is why i continue to reply to ur ignorance. u started with 100 excuses and now u have none....imagine that lol. troll on indeed mr troll.


since mr geenie quoted only part of what you said (as if that makes everything hes spewin valid) i should add that to make claims that their mines run smoothly without issues isnt smart. we have no idea how many boards die due to overheating at their farms. we do not know if bitmain uses ambient temps from outside or if they use outside temps in the winter (cold air is free in the winter lol) and ac cooling in the summer. what we have seen from other chinese mine operators r piles of dead miners and power supplies from running them hard and hot and instead of fixing them they just replace them with new units because its cheaper on their part. you cant compare the costs of replacing a miner on our end with the cost on their end because the amount we pay is significantly higher than the money they pay for them. is we pay $100 they may only pay $20 or possibly even less. since we dont have the info on suppliers and order quantities we will never know the assembled cost before the markup for 1 single s9 but im 100% positive its much less than what we pay otherwise whats the point of selling them to us in the first place?

also no matter what the ambient temps are the fan compensates for that temp but their is a ceiling. the firmware keeps running the boards hot on purpose so the colder the temps the slower the fan spins to keep the boards running much hotter than normal and the same goes for higher ambient temps but in reverse...the fan spins faster.

I love how you confuse 2 separate things and then accuse me of not paying attention.
Telling me that I'm wrong about the average temp of the room because of what the average temp of the boards/chips are just proves that you don't even read the words; you're just trolling.
Troll on, troll, troll on.....

that is incorrect. bitmains firmware tries to run the boards at 95-100 degrees c hence the constant ramping up in fan speed. again if you paid attention you would know this. this just adds to me thinking you dont have any of their hardware running yourself. ur just saying whatever on the interwebz just to be a troll lol.

Should I buy 10 of these or 10 or the T9. Planning on building my first farm. Want to start it in my house and once I figured it out and it generates enough cash flow to rent a place out for it and scale it up.

Looks like you can purchase an S9 from bitmain.com, but they are shipping more than a month out.

Antminer S9-13.5TH/s
Shipping: 5th-15th July
1161 USD    ( 0.467 BTC )

You can just about bet money that they all run with ambient temps under 80F. 

Thanks for the info.  That is what I was afraid of.  Still curious what ambient temps people have tried/succeeded with!  Those farms in china run hot with just outside air and seem to be ok!

The S9/T9 are not as heat resistant as the S7s were. In my opinion they are pretty sensitive to the heat as they have to run the chips so hot by default.

Wow 13TH for less than 0.5BTC now from Bitmain.  I might actually swap out my S7s for S9s.

But its summer, and my S7s can survive my 110F garage just fine when running 4.5TH (Batch 1/2, so higher chip count).

How are S9s with high ambient temps?  Can they be slightly underclocked to compensate?

Thanks for any info.

True, after hours of pouring over the code, I've yet to understand the "logic" behind the reversal of SOP when it comes to voltages.