Boxing: Errol Spence vs Keith Thurman - page 26.

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Quote from: Kemarit on January 06, 2023, 04:16:14 AM

Quote from: Kelvinid on January 06, 2023, 02:33:30 AM

Quote from: Sithara007 on January 05, 2023, 10:20:10 PM

Quote from: btc_angela on January 05, 2023, 10:01:23 PM

Yes, as long as this organization is still in control of the belts and not the boxers themselves, they can issue their mandatory fight and title eliminators so that only the best boxers can get their belts.

But the problem is when the boxer held more than one belt, each one has it's own mandatory so he has to go about everyone. But sometimes schedule are not permitted so he either vacate some of the belts that he had. Another good example is Josh Taylor who vacated 3 already and retain one for his fight with Jack Catterall.

Each system has its own advantages and demerits. The boxing administration is fractured at this point, and we have 4 different world championship groups as a result - World Boxing Organization (WBO), International Boxing Federation (IBF), World Boxing Association (WBA) and World Boxing Council (WBC). The dream of every boxer is to unify the belts, but in some cases (example is that of Josh Taylor that you have mentioned) it becomes impossible to do so. But still, the current system is better than media tycoons such as Al Haymon or Bob Arum dictating who should fight whom.

Exactly, but is there a chance that they will change that system to fully satisfy the fans? I think why boxing is here because it's not only for entertainment but also for us to see and to know who the real warriors are, and the only way we can see who is the best among the best is the unification and undisputed fight.

For them? it was just pure business, the business of making money for them, the promoters and the networks. Yeah, you can say that they want to satisfy their fans, but I don't think that is their main goal right now as boxers have evolved as well. In the 80's-90's it was purely for the pride that's why we see a lot of great fights and upsets. But time has change, Floyd becoming "Money Mayweather", started to do his own business makes ton of money. So now boxers specially top tier, wanted millions and if they can't give them that money, then we won't see the mega fight that we wanted, like Spence vs Crawford. And I don't think the system will change, IMHO.

This is what I have always said, in boxing he represents a great business model and wow, money is handled very well, I don't blame him for Mayweather, he is a boxer who used his intelligence a lot, and while he was fighting he managed to make the best contacts for ensure a good retirement, in my case I don't blame him, he is a skilled person, he always has money and he is in the best or best of the best, in the case of other boxers such as Crawford, Spence I think they want to make it more exciting, Making the fans go crazy to ask for their fight is normal, however some legends like Pacquiao celebrate exhibition fights, not bad for them, but I don't see it that way if they do the fights to please the fans.

Among other things:

Jaron ‘Boots’ Ennis says Spence or Crawford may want to fight him now

Quote

By Sam Volz: Jaron ‘Boots’ Ennis (30-0, 27 KOs) believes there’s a better chance now that the welterweight champions Errol Spence Jr or Terence Crawford will fight him following his less-than-scintillating performance against a survival-focused, fleet of foot Karen Chukhadzhian (21-2, 11 KOs) in winning a one-sided 12 round unanimous decision at the Capitol One Arena in Washington, D.C. If Spence or Crawford needed to see vulnerability in Boots Ennis for them to want to fight him, last night’s bout might have been what they were looking for.

Source: Jaron 'Boots' Ennis Says Spence Or Crawford May Want To Fight Him Now - Boxing News 24 (https://www.boxingnews24.com/2023/01/jaron-boots-ennis-says-spence-or-crawford-may-want-to-fight-him-now/)

Source: https://www.boxingnews24.com/2023/01/jaron-boots-ennis-says-spence-or-crawford-may-want-to-fight-him-now/

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Quote from: btc_angela on January 11, 2023, 03:54:31 AM

Quote from: Natalim on January 11, 2023, 03:17:57 AM

@Sithara007, Thanks for sharing.

At least now we know that they are finalizing the deal. The talk now is this fight, no more Spence vs Crawford, or anyone with a big name. Spence vs Thurman is definitely a big fight, although Thurman is not a champion like Crawford, but he is a real deal, a boxer that could potentially give Spence his first loss.

Yeah, I saw that news as well, probably although what have been discussed is that the fight is going to be above the welterweight division, so it means there will be no belt in the line for Thurman (how unfortunately for him).

But probably it's the safe bet for Spence, so if ever he will be upset here by Thurman, he won't lost any belt and will continue to reign as the 147 lbs champion with his 3 belts. And I guess Thurman can't do anything with that proposal as he is not the A-side on this fight. And they are both on PBC, so make sense for him to accept that plan.

It was first reported by Mike Coppinger:

https://twitter.com/MikeCoppinger/status/1612898551654408192

So it's probably in 154 lbs or maybe a catchweight as I have a hint that both fighters might have difficulty fighting at the limit of 154 lbs. So it's a plus/minus here, we will see if Spence will still have the power in 154 lbs.

On the other hand, there is no belt line up here, so he will have to defend that welterweight belt later and wait for the winner of Eimantas Stanionis-Vergil Ortiz Jr. WBA ‘Regular’ welterweight title fight. Although this is postponed because Stanionis need to undergo a appendectomy surgery.

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Quote from: Oasisman on January 11, 2023, 04:16:30 AM

Quote from: Natalim on January 11, 2023, 03:17:57 AM

@Sithara007, Thanks for sharing.

At least now we know that they are finalizing the deal. The talk now is this fight, no more Spence vs Crawford, or anyone with a big name. Spence vs Thurman is definitely a big fight, although Thurman is not a champion like Crawford, but he is a real deal, a boxer that could potentially give Spence his first loss.

Not the fight that everyone wanted, but this will do. I don't know how the outcome of this fight impacts the timeline for the Spence-Crawford fight. Some boxing enthusiast says it would really take a while before we see both of them in the ring.
This fight may favour Spence the most, as Thurman had a long rest after the devastating loss to Pacquiao. Though his last fight against Barrios was a good one, but he needs to be better in his next fight against a stronger opponent.

It looks like Spence is taking it the fight safe fighting on Jr. Middleweight class. This simply shows that Spence isn't 100% sure that he can beat Thurman making their fight a non-title fight lol. But I think this is better than not seeing these two boxer fight. Somehow I got the impression that Spence is really avoiding Crawford thinking that he has a huge chance of lossing the championship belt if he fights against Crawford.

Quote from: mirakal on January 11, 2023, 04:43:16 AM

Quote from: chaser15 on January 09, 2023, 05:35:33 PM

Quote from: mirakal on January 09, 2023, 01:41:30 PM

We just don't know who's afraid, is it the boxer or the promoter.

Legacy can still be built even under a promoter. Look at where Pacquiao ended up.

However, there are boxers that like a pure legacy and the best example of that is, Terence Crawford. But look at what happened, they are having a hard time dealing with big names since he left Arum's background.

Spence Jr. on the other hand is more on building a business but still cares for legacy. They can settle a fight against big names but only if the price is right in favor of them. Not just being disclosed to the public but I think the slice of the pie has something to why their supposed fight with Crawford is not being materialized.

Then why did Pacquiao left Bob Arum and build MP Promotions afterwards if Pacquiao can really build the legacy he's after?

I think Pacquiao had established his career when he left Arum, it is also possible that Arum hinders Manny on who he wanted to fight since we all know, promoter does control the opponent of a boxer.

Quote from: mirakal on January 11, 2023, 04:43:16 AM

Also, Terence Crawford really wasted his years under Bob Arum because I reckon that he could've got 1 more belt under him if he climb to another promotional company.

Sadly a boxer cannot do anything until their contract with the promoter expires. I think it is too frustrating to a boxer when the promoter don't make a deal with the opponent the boxer is rooting for.

Quote from: mirakal on January 11, 2023, 04:43:16 AM

Now, it's too late because the 3 other belts are in Spence's possession and their camp doesn't want to give Crawford a chance. Let's just stop about that cut issues because we all know that it wasn't really the case because Crawford will still accept as low as 30% cut just to materialize the fight, but what happened is that they let Crawford wasted almost a year of waiting and gave some hopes that a fight will really happen.

It is not too late I think, if someone gets the three-belt from Spencer then Crawford can challenge that boxer.

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Quote from: mirakal on January 11, 2023, 04:43:16 AM

Quote from: chaser15 on January 09, 2023, 05:35:33 PM

Quote from: mirakal on January 09, 2023, 01:41:30 PM

We just don't know who's afraid, is it the boxer or the promoter.

Legacy can still be built even under a promoter. Look at where Pacquiao ended up.

However, there are boxers that like a pure legacy and the best example of that is, Terence Crawford. But look at what happened, they are having a hard time dealing with big names since he left Arum's background.

Spence Jr. on the other hand is more on building a business but still cares for legacy. They can settle a fight against big names but only if the price is right in favor of them. Not just being disclosed to the public but I think the slice of the pie has something to why their supposed fight with Crawford is not being materialized.

Then why did Pacquiao left Bob Arum and build MP Promotions afterwards if Pacquiao can really build the legacy he's after?
Also, Terence Crawford really wasted his years under Bob Arum because I reckon that he could've got 1 more belt under him if he climb to another promotional company.

Now, it's too late because the 3 other belts are in Spence's possession and their camp doesn't want to give Crawford a chance. Let's just stop about that cut issues because we all know that it wasn't really the case because Crawford will still accept as low as 30% cut just to materialize the fight, but what happened is that they let Crawford wasted almost a year of waiting and gave some hopes that a fight will really happen.

Perhaps Pacquiao ought to have left earlier when he was performing at his best. When Pacquiao left Bob Arum, he was old. Who are the boxers under MP Promotions? Maybe Manny Pacquiao built his promotion and use it to get more money of his matches. In order to increase their monetization, well-known boxers began to develop their own promotions. I can recall Pacquiao missing out on a number of big names in the past because Arum did not want to gamble him to the boxers from different promoters. However, it is possible that Pacquiao became the legendary champion of the eight divisions under the guidance of Bob Arum.

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Quote from: chaser15 on January 09, 2023, 05:35:33 PM

Quote from: mirakal on January 09, 2023, 01:41:30 PM

We just don't know who's afraid, is it the boxer or the promoter.

Legacy can still be built even under a promoter. Look at where Pacquiao ended up.

However, there are boxers that like a pure legacy and the best example of that is, Terence Crawford. But look at what happened, they are having a hard time dealing with big names since he left Arum's background.

Spence Jr. on the other hand is more on building a business but still cares for legacy. They can settle a fight against big names but only if the price is right in favor of them. Not just being disclosed to the public but I think the slice of the pie has something to why their supposed fight with Crawford is not being materialized.

Then why did Pacquiao left Bob Arum and build MP Promotions afterwards if Pacquiao can really build the legacy he's after?
Also, Terence Crawford really wasted his years under Bob Arum because I reckon that he could've got 1 more belt under him if he climb to another promotional company.

Now, it's too late because the 3 other belts are in Spence's possession and their camp doesn't want to give Crawford a chance. Let's just stop about that cut issues because we all know that it wasn't really the case because Crawford will still accept as low as 30% cut just to materialize the fight, but what happened is that they let Crawford wasted almost a year of waiting and gave some hopes that a fight will really happen.

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Quote from: serjent05 on January 09, 2023, 06:10:05 PM

Quote from: mirakal on January 09, 2023, 01:41:30 PM

Quote from: harizen on January 07, 2023, 06:41:26 PM

Quote from: inthelongrun on January 07, 2023, 11:44:29 AM

PBC is just new to boxing and is less than 10 years of operations but it already destroyed and prevented a lot of big fights. PBC prevented us from seeing the huge AJ vs Wilder clash when they were both undefeated and the winner could've been the first-ever undisputed heavyweight in this 4-belt era. PBC also didn't respond nor sent counter-offers to Bob Arum of Top Rank in order to stage Crawford vs Spence for the welterweight undisputed belts. There are too many potential fights I can mention but these 2 are the biggest and could've been historic fights if PBC is cooperative and not scared and selfish.

As you mentioned, primarily focused on the business side instead of anything related to legacy. Agree with you.

However, who's the one/s that needs to be blamed strongly for big fights unable to materialize?

It's a sad reality but the boxer themselves is just cooperating with these networks and promoters, because for the obvious reason that they receive benefits and advantages that aren't present if they decided not to be under by any firms.

Well, they don't have that much leverage to make a choice about their career because they won't be reaching anywhere far enough if they will be flying solo without the help of promoters, hence, why they are called promoters in the first place. They are the ones who will get the boxer their fight and if not, will pull some strings to make a fight happen that will help them towards their career. In the end, it will be a blaming game for them if there's a fight that they are avoiding. We just don't know who's afraid, is it the boxer or the promoter.

Mostly it is the promoter that evades boxing deals since the boxer has no say about it. They just train, sign, and fight. All the processes of dealing are done by the manager and promoter. The promoter is more focused on the money and how they can make their boxer records amazing making more value for the boxer's career. Thus if the promoter thinks that their boxer has a huge tendency to lose the fight, the promoter declines the deal. We can take an example ample on the early years of Ryan Garcia where he really wanted to fight Gervonta Davis but his promoter, Oscar dela Hoya thinks he isn't ready for the fight yet thus not considering the fight against Davis during that time.

That's why most known professional boxers like Pacquiao and Mayweather established their own promotional company even before they retire and hang up their gloves so that they will have the leverage to choose what's right for them in their final years and not just waiting for their promoter's go signal even if they know that they could use that specific fight as an advantage to gain more.

I agree with Ryan Garcia as an example, the kid had to undergo 2 tune-up fights before facing Gervonta Davis. Those tune-up fights almost ended to three fights but it wasn't materialized because Ryan chose to have a direct training rather than having a tune-up. Even Golden Boy was surprised by that decision because the plan is to face Gesta so that Garcia can have a thing or two about how Tank will move.

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Quote from: Natalim on January 11, 2023, 03:17:57 AM

@Sithara007, Thanks for sharing.

At least now we know that they are finalizing the deal. The talk now is this fight, no more Spence vs Crawford, or anyone with a big name. Spence vs Thurman is definitely a big fight, although Thurman is not a champion like Crawford, but he is a real deal, a boxer that could potentially give Spence his first loss.

Not the fight that everyone wanted, but this will do. I don't know how the outcome of this fight impacts the timeline for the Spence-Crawford fight. Some boxing enthusiast says it would really take a while before we see both of them in the ring.
This fight may favour Spence the most, as Thurman had a long rest after the devastating loss to Pacquiao. Though his last fight against Barrios was a good one, but he needs to be better in his next fight against a stronger opponent.

btc_angela

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Quote from: Natalim on January 11, 2023, 03:17:57 AM

@Sithara007, Thanks for sharing.

At least now we know that they are finalizing the deal. The talk now is this fight, no more Spence vs Crawford, or anyone with a big name. Spence vs Thurman is definitely a big fight, although Thurman is not a champion like Crawford, but he is a real deal, a boxer that could potentially give Spence his first loss.

Yeah, I saw that news as well, probably although what have been discussed is that the fight is going to be above the welterweight division, so it means there will be no belt in the line for Thurman (how unfortunately for him).

But probably it's the safe bet for Spence, so if ever he will be upset here by Thurman, he won't lost any belt and will continue to reign as the 147 lbs champion with his 3 belts. And I guess Thurman can't do anything with that proposal as he is not the A-side on this fight. And they are both on PBC, so make sense for him to accept that plan.

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@Sithara007, Thanks for sharing.

At least now we know that they are finalizing the deal. The talk now is this fight, no more Spence vs Crawford, or anyone with a big name. Spence vs Thurman is definitely a big fight, although Thurman is not a champion like Crawford, but he is a real deal, a boxer that could potentially give Spence his first loss.

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Quote from: inthelongrun on January 11, 2023, 02:02:17 AM

And it is only Canelo that has the power to do his per-fight deal. 99% of these fighters are not powerful and influential enough to be at the level of Canelo. I heard Tank Davis is now a free agent, we'll see if he signs a new promotional contract or if he tries to copy Canelo's style. Luckily for Tank, the PBC has a solid cult of casual and blind followers. Otherwise, Tank and his team would've tried hard to negotiate with Bob Arum who has contracts with nearly all the big names and champions from lightweight to light-welterweight.

Meanwhile, as per boxing journalist Mike Coppinger. Spence and Thurman are now finalizing a date in April but they seemed to be fighting in the 154 division. If this is true then hopefully the WBA, WBC, and IBF will strip Spence of his belts as he has passed due mandatories that he never entertained. Crawford should move up too and forget about his dream of becoming the first 2-division unified champion in the 4-belt era because it would take forever to collect these 3 belts 1 by 1. It'll be better for Crawford to spend his remaining years of boxing attempting to become a 4 division world champion.

Thanks for this information. This is what I could find from ESPN:

https://www.espn.in/boxing/story/_/id/35420201/sources-errol-spence-keith-thurman-finalizing-april-fight

Quote

Errol Spence and Keith Thurman are finalizing a deal for a PBC on PPV fight that is expected to take place in April, sources told ESPN.

So bad news for Crawford and Ennis, but they need to move on and find suitable opponents. I agree with your assumption that Spence will skip the undisputed welterweight championship bout with Terence Crawford and forfeit all these belts. He is also likely to forfeit his 147-pound title, in case he is going to skip the fight against the winner from Vergil Ortiz Jr. vs Eimantas Stanionis.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on January 10, 2023, 12:27:21 AM

Quote from: Yaunfitda on January 09, 2023, 11:25:36 PM

Canelo though is wise now not to tie up or sign a longer contract after he severe his relationship with Oscar Dela Hoya. Now him and Eddie Hearn is just like 2-3 fights and after that whether Canelo will renew his contract or not.

This strategy has its own risks associated with it. If he loses 2-3 fights consecutively, then his market value may decline. Having a lengthy contract with someone like Eddie Hearn protects him from that. Also, injury is a big concern. If he is forced out for an extended duration as a result of injury, it may not be easy for him to get a big fight once he is back. And this is where a long-term contract maybe useful. In the end, it is up to Canelo to decide what is best for him. But he is no longer considered as invincible, after his loss to Dmitry Bivol.

And it is only Canelo that has the power to do his per-fight deal. 99% of these fighters are not powerful and influential enough to be at the level of Canelo. I heard Tank Davis is now a free agent, we'll see if he signs a new promotional contract or if he tries to copy Canelo's style. Luckily for Tank, the PBC has a solid cult of casual and blind followers. Otherwise, Tank and his team would've tried hard to negotiate with Bob Arum who has contracts with nearly all the big names and champions from lightweight to light-welterweight.

Meanwhile, as per boxing journalist Mike Coppinger. Spence and Thurman are now finalizing a date in April but they seemed to be fighting in the 154 division. If this is true then hopefully the WBA, WBC, and IBF will strip Spence of his belts as he has passed due mandatories that he never entertained. Crawford should move up too and forget about his dream of becoming the first 2-division unified champion in the 4-belt era because it would take forever to collect these 3 belts 1 by 1. It'll be better for Crawford to spend his remaining years of boxing attempting to become a 4 division world champion.

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Quote from: serjent05 on January 09, 2023, 06:10:05 PM

Quote from: mirakal on January 09, 2023, 01:41:30 PM

Quote from: harizen on January 07, 2023, 06:41:26 PM

Quote from: inthelongrun on January 07, 2023, 11:44:29 AM

PBC is just new to boxing and is less than 10 years of operations but it already destroyed and prevented a lot of big fights. PBC prevented us from seeing the huge AJ vs Wilder clash when they were both undefeated and the winner could've been the first-ever undisputed heavyweight in this 4-belt era. PBC also didn't respond nor sent counter-offers to Bob Arum of Top Rank in order to stage Crawford vs Spence for the welterweight undisputed belts. There are too many potential fights I can mention but these 2 are the biggest and could've been historic fights if PBC is cooperative and not scared and selfish.

As you mentioned, primarily focused on the business side instead of anything related to legacy. Agree with you.

However, who's the one/s that needs to be blamed strongly for big fights unable to materialize?

It's a sad reality but the boxer themselves is just cooperating with these networks and promoters, because for the obvious reason that they receive benefits and advantages that aren't present if they decided not to be under by any firms.

Well, they don't have that much leverage to make a choice about their career because they won't be reaching anywhere far enough if they will be flying solo without the help of promoters, hence, why they are called promoters in the first place. They are the ones who will get the boxer their fight and if not, will pull some strings to make a fight happen that will help them towards their career. In the end, it will be a blaming game for them if there's a fight that they are avoiding. We just don't know who's afraid, is it the boxer or the promoter.

Mostly it is the promoter that evades boxing deals since the boxer has no say about it. They just train, sign, and fight. All the processes of dealing are done by the manager and promoter. The promoter is more focused on the money and how they can make their boxer records amazing making more value for the boxer's career. Thus if the promoter thinks that their boxer has a huge tendency to lose the fight, the promoter declines the deal. We can take an example ample on the early years of Ryan Garcia where he really wanted to fight Gervonta Davis but his promoter, Oscar dela Hoya thinks he isn't ready for the fight yet thus not considering the fight against Davis during that time.

you know, it's even funny that the promoter who doesn't fight is the guy who manages to tell the fighter that the fighter isn't ready to fight another fighter who appears to be stronger, I wonder what criteria the promoter or manager uses uses to measure that your fighter has no condition to beat another fighter Z, X and Y. if these promoters and managers were allowed to place bets in the sports houses they would win a lot of money, maybe they would not even miss a bet. but anyway, the good part is that the same thing happens in the fights that has happened in the world of adult films in which the promoters and managers keep all the money and leave the actresses poor

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Quote from: Yaunfitda on January 09, 2023, 11:25:36 PM

Canelo though is wise now not to tie up or sign a longer contract after he severe his relationship with Oscar Dela Hoya. Now him and Eddie Hearn is just like 2-3 fights and after that whether Canelo will renew his contract or not.

This strategy has its own risks associated with it. If he loses 2-3 fights consecutively, then his market value may decline. Having a lengthy contract with someone like Eddie Hearn protects him from that. Also, injury is a big concern. If he is forced out for an extended duration as a result of injury, it may not be easy for him to get a big fight once he is back. And this is where a long-term contract maybe useful. In the end, it is up to Canelo to decide what is best for him. But he is no longer considered as invincible, after his loss to Dmitry Bivol.

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Quote from: harizen on January 09, 2023, 06:43:36 PM

Quote from: serjent05 on January 09, 2023, 06:10:05 PM

Quote from: mirakal on January 09, 2023, 01:41:30 PM

Quote from: harizen on January 07, 2023, 06:41:26 PM

Quote from: inthelongrun on January 07, 2023, 11:44:29 AM

PBC is just new to boxing and is less than 10 years of operations but it already destroyed and prevented a lot of big fights. PBC prevented us from seeing the huge AJ vs Wilder clash when they were both undefeated and the winner could've been the first-ever undisputed heavyweight in this 4-belt era. PBC also didn't respond nor sent counter-offers to Bob Arum of Top Rank in order to stage Crawford vs Spence for the welterweight undisputed belts. There are too many potential fights I can mention but these 2 are the biggest and could've been historic fights if PBC is cooperative and not scared and selfish.

As you mentioned, primarily focused on the business side instead of anything related to legacy. Agree with you.

However, who's the one/s that needs to be blamed strongly for big fights unable to materialize?

It's a sad reality but the boxer themselves is just cooperating with these networks and promoters, because for the obvious reason that they receive benefits and advantages that aren't present if they decided not to be under by any firms.

Well, they don't have that much leverage to make a choice about their career because they won't be reaching anywhere far enough if they will be flying solo without the help of promoters, hence, why they are called promoters in the first place. They are the ones who will get the boxer their fight and if not, will pull some strings to make a fight happen that will help them towards their career. In the end, it will be a blaming game for them if there's a fight that they are avoiding. We just don't know who's afraid, is it the boxer or the promoter.

Mostly it is the promoter that evades boxing deals since the boxer has no say about it. They just train, sign, and fight. All the processes of dealing are done by the manager and promoter. The promoter is more focused on the money and how they can make their boxer records amazing making more value for the boxer's career. Thus if the promoter thinks that their boxer has a huge tendency to lose the fight, the promoter declines the deal. We can take an example ample on the early years of Ryan Garcia where he really wanted to fight Gervonta Davis but his promoter, Oscar dela Hoya thinks he isn't ready for the fight yet thus not considering the fight against Davis during that time.

On the other hand, it's not just about avoiding their cash cow in a big fight that they think can't handle yet but boxers here are getting the advantage. Since they are considered cash cow, expect their promoters to do their best in taking care of them. The boxer involved will now decide if they will take that advantage or just purely decide on their own building their legacy.

In today's boxing, boxers need to be wise and try their best to build a legacy while having a good cash flow on their hands at the same time.

Not sure though about boxers making their legacy, maybe just a couple of them in every division as for sure they are all looking for money fights. Or those fight that will gave them the most money as they goes up.

And this is also a win win for promoters, build their cash cow like Manny or Canelo in this decade and then make a lot of money out it.

Canelo though is wise now not to tie up or sign a longer contract after he severe his relationship with Oscar Dela Hoya. Now him and Eddie Hearn is just like 2-3 fights and after that whether Canelo will renew his contract or not.

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Quote from: serjent05 on January 09, 2023, 06:10:05 PM

Quote from: mirakal on January 09, 2023, 01:41:30 PM

Quote from: harizen on January 07, 2023, 06:41:26 PM

Quote from: inthelongrun on January 07, 2023, 11:44:29 AM

PBC is just new to boxing and is less than 10 years of operations but it already destroyed and prevented a lot of big fights. PBC prevented us from seeing the huge AJ vs Wilder clash when they were both undefeated and the winner could've been the first-ever undisputed heavyweight in this 4-belt era. PBC also didn't respond nor sent counter-offers to Bob Arum of Top Rank in order to stage Crawford vs Spence for the welterweight undisputed belts. There are too many potential fights I can mention but these 2 are the biggest and could've been historic fights if PBC is cooperative and not scared and selfish.

As you mentioned, primarily focused on the business side instead of anything related to legacy. Agree with you.

However, who's the one/s that needs to be blamed strongly for big fights unable to materialize?

It's a sad reality but the boxer themselves is just cooperating with these networks and promoters, because for the obvious reason that they receive benefits and advantages that aren't present if they decided not to be under by any firms.

Well, they don't have that much leverage to make a choice about their career because they won't be reaching anywhere far enough if they will be flying solo without the help of promoters, hence, why they are called promoters in the first place. They are the ones who will get the boxer their fight and if not, will pull some strings to make a fight happen that will help them towards their career. In the end, it will be a blaming game for them if there's a fight that they are avoiding. We just don't know who's afraid, is it the boxer or the promoter.

Mostly it is the promoter that evades boxing deals since the boxer has no say about it. They just train, sign, and fight. All the processes of dealing are done by the manager and promoter. The promoter is more focused on the money and how they can make their boxer records amazing making more value for the boxer's career. Thus if the promoter thinks that their boxer has a huge tendency to lose the fight, the promoter declines the deal. We can take an example ample on the early years of Ryan Garcia where he really wanted to fight Gervonta Davis but his promoter, Oscar dela Hoya thinks he isn't ready for the fight yet thus not considering the fight against Davis during that time.

Promoters evade a match but that was for the benefit of all concerns.

If they push a fight for their boxers against something they don't have a chance of beating, they are not just the ones that will lose but the boxer's value too. I'm sure too that they are not just the one who decides here but they also ask their boxers if they are ready to face that said boxer.

More importantly, only big promoters can organize a big fight. If others feel annoyed about some of their decision to protect their boxers, no choice but to accept what they are doing and just ride the situation.

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Quote from: serjent05 on January 09, 2023, 06:10:05 PM

Quote from: mirakal on January 09, 2023, 01:41:30 PM

Quote from: harizen on January 07, 2023, 06:41:26 PM

Quote from: inthelongrun on January 07, 2023, 11:44:29 AM

PBC is just new to boxing and is less than 10 years of operations but it already destroyed and prevented a lot of big fights. PBC prevented us from seeing the huge AJ vs Wilder clash when they were both undefeated and the winner could've been the first-ever undisputed heavyweight in this 4-belt era. PBC also didn't respond nor sent counter-offers to Bob Arum of Top Rank in order to stage Crawford vs Spence for the welterweight undisputed belts. There are too many potential fights I can mention but these 2 are the biggest and could've been historic fights if PBC is cooperative and not scared and selfish.

As you mentioned, primarily focused on the business side instead of anything related to legacy. Agree with you.

However, who's the one/s that needs to be blamed strongly for big fights unable to materialize?

It's a sad reality but the boxer themselves is just cooperating with these networks and promoters, because for the obvious reason that they receive benefits and advantages that aren't present if they decided not to be under by any firms.

Well, they don't have that much leverage to make a choice about their career because they won't be reaching anywhere far enough if they will be flying solo without the help of promoters, hence, why they are called promoters in the first place. They are the ones who will get the boxer their fight and if not, will pull some strings to make a fight happen that will help them towards their career. In the end, it will be a blaming game for them if there's a fight that they are avoiding. We just don't know who's afraid, is it the boxer or the promoter.

Mostly it is the promoter that evades boxing deals since the boxer has no say about it. They just train, sign, and fight. All the processes of dealing are done by the manager and promoter. The promoter is more focused on the money and how they can make their boxer records amazing making more value for the boxer's career. Thus if the promoter thinks that their boxer has a huge tendency to lose the fight, the promoter declines the deal. We can take an example ample on the early years of Ryan Garcia where he really wanted to fight Gervonta Davis but his promoter, Oscar dela Hoya thinks he isn't ready for the fight yet thus not considering the fight against Davis during that time.

On the other hand, it's not just about avoiding their cash cow in a big fight that they think can't handle yet but boxers here are getting the advantage. Since they are considered cash cow, expect their promoters to do their best in taking care of them. The boxer involved will now decide if they will take that advantage or just purely decide on their own building their legacy.

In today's boxing, boxers need to be wise and try their best to build a legacy while having a good cash flow on their hands at the same time.

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Quote from: mirakal on January 09, 2023, 01:41:30 PM

Quote from: harizen on January 07, 2023, 06:41:26 PM

Quote from: inthelongrun on January 07, 2023, 11:44:29 AM

PBC is just new to boxing and is less than 10 years of operations but it already destroyed and prevented a lot of big fights. PBC prevented us from seeing the huge AJ vs Wilder clash when they were both undefeated and the winner could've been the first-ever undisputed heavyweight in this 4-belt era. PBC also didn't respond nor sent counter-offers to Bob Arum of Top Rank in order to stage Crawford vs Spence for the welterweight undisputed belts. There are too many potential fights I can mention but these 2 are the biggest and could've been historic fights if PBC is cooperative and not scared and selfish.

As you mentioned, primarily focused on the business side instead of anything related to legacy. Agree with you.

However, who's the one/s that needs to be blamed strongly for big fights unable to materialize?

It's a sad reality but the boxer themselves is just cooperating with these networks and promoters, because for the obvious reason that they receive benefits and advantages that aren't present if they decided not to be under by any firms.

Well, they don't have that much leverage to make a choice about their career because they won't be reaching anywhere far enough if they will be flying solo without the help of promoters, hence, why they are called promoters in the first place. They are the ones who will get the boxer their fight and if not, will pull some strings to make a fight happen that will help them towards their career. In the end, it will be a blaming game for them if there's a fight that they are avoiding. We just don't know who's afraid, is it the boxer or the promoter.

Mostly it is the promoter that evades boxing deals since the boxer has no say about it. They just train, sign, and fight. All the processes of dealing are done by the manager and promoter. The promoter is more focused on the money and how they can make their boxer records amazing making more value for the boxer's career. Thus if the promoter thinks that their boxer has a huge tendency to lose the fight, the promoter declines the deal. We can take an example ample on the early years of Ryan Garcia where he really wanted to fight Gervonta Davis but his promoter, Oscar dela Hoya thinks he isn't ready for the fight yet thus not considering the fight against Davis during that time.

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Quote from: mirakal on January 09, 2023, 01:41:30 PM

We just don't know who's afraid, is it the boxer or the promoter.

Legacy can still be built even under a promoter. Look at where Pacquiao ended up.

However, there are boxers that like a pure legacy and the best example of that is, Terence Crawford. But look at what happened, they are having a hard time dealing with big names since he left Arum's background.

Spence Jr. on the other hand is more on building a business but still cares for legacy. They can settle a fight against big names but only if the price is right in favor of them. Not just being disclosed to the public but I think the slice of the pie has something to why their supposed fight with Crawford is not being materialized.

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Quote from: harizen on January 07, 2023, 06:41:26 PM

Quote from: inthelongrun on January 07, 2023, 11:44:29 AM

PBC is just new to boxing and is less than 10 years of operations but it already destroyed and prevented a lot of big fights. PBC prevented us from seeing the huge AJ vs Wilder clash when they were both undefeated and the winner could've been the first-ever undisputed heavyweight in this 4-belt era. PBC also didn't respond nor sent counter-offers to Bob Arum of Top Rank in order to stage Crawford vs Spence for the welterweight undisputed belts. There are too many potential fights I can mention but these 2 are the biggest and could've been historic fights if PBC is cooperative and not scared and selfish.

As you mentioned, primarily focused on the business side instead of anything related to legacy. Agree with you.

However, who's the one/s that needs to be blamed strongly for big fights unable to materialize?

It's a sad reality but the boxer themselves is just cooperating with these networks and promoters, because for the obvious reason that they receive benefits and advantages that aren't present if they decided not to be under by any firms.

Well, they don't have that much leverage to make a choice about their career because they won't be reaching anywhere far enough if they will be flying solo without the help of promoters, hence, why they are called promoters in the first place. They are the ones who will get the boxer their fight and if not, will pull some strings to make a fight happen that will help them towards their career. In the end, it will be a blaming game for them if there's a fight that they are avoiding. We just don't know who's afraid, is it the boxer or the promoter.

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Quote from: d3nz on January 09, 2023, 08:19:16 AM

Quote from: Distinctin on January 08, 2023, 08:22:42 AM

Quote from: Russlenat on January 07, 2023, 07:51:48 PM

Quote from: harizen on January 07, 2023, 06:41:26 PM

Quote from: inthelongrun on January 07, 2023, 11:44:29 AM

PBC is just new to boxing and is less than 10 years of operations but it already destroyed and prevented a lot of big fights. PBC prevented us from seeing the huge AJ vs Wilder clash when they were both undefeated and the winner could've been the first-ever undisputed heavyweight in this 4-belt era. PBC also didn't respond nor sent counter-offers to Bob Arum of Top Rank in order to stage Crawford vs Spence for the welterweight undisputed belts. There are too many potential fights I can mention but these 2 are the biggest and could've been historic fights if PBC is cooperative and not scared and selfish.

As you mentioned, primarily focused on the business side instead of anything related to legacy. Agree with you.

However, who's the one/s that needs to be blamed strongly for big fights unable to materialize?

It's a sad reality but the boxer themselves is just cooperating with these networks and promoters, because for the obvious reason that they receive benefits and advantages that aren't present if they decided not to be under by any firms.

They have no choice because, without their network and promoters, they will not be popular and won't be able to make a good amount of money. We know that promoters are into making money, if they can maximize their profit they will do that but hopefully, they will not sacrifice the quality of boxing sports.

These days, it's more about hype and advertisement, while the champs are trying to keep their status as long as possible in order to retain their value, and if their value will drop, promoters will also not make money, besides, they are the ones who invested big for these boxers.

That how business runs, boxing is a business, so as with other sports. If you have no influence in this market, you'll never be popular even how good you are. I think there are plenty of boxers who had wasted their talent in boxing because they don't have the opportunity to had a big fight, or their journey is very long which they already out of their prime.

I strongly agree marketing is the best strategy now to gain more support and hype the fight. I would say that trash-talking tactics with each are becoming the trend and I think that people kinda like this since it talks about the stats and compares it to others. xD

But, if I would choose i'll choose and bet for thurman this time, the last time I didn't bet for since his last fight with Pacquiao.

Simply because the promoters and organizers doesn't want to pick the boring boxers because they already know that it won't give them the profits they wanted, a couple of Million of revenue per fight is not enough these days because boxers are already priced at least $3-5 Million, so the organizers needed boxers that can hype the event and can attract more viewers, may it live or PPV view to achieve the expected amount.

Back to this fight, I'm still unable to pick sides between Spence and Thurman.

Topic: Boxing: Errol Spence vs Keith Thurman - page 26. (Read 7339 times)