Topic: BTC-e.com down ! Police detains the owner . - page 8. (Read 21894 times)

Quote from: JohnBitCo on July 30, 2017, 12:55:57 PM

Quote from: fred dave on July 30, 2017, 12:41:45 PM

The domain is seized bu US authorities, it seems that it will be the bigger lesson for the unlicensed exchangers worldwide and especially Poloniex

Is poloniex unlicensed ? while its containment any exchanges I'll see him about the same thing with the exchanges that you have to look out for is manipulation of the withdrawal and deposit limits. Need to be careful while using exchanges.

YES, poloniex is unlicensed and it's based in USA;same as Kraken.

Poloniex doesn't have the New York bitlicense or any money transmitting license which is why it operates without fiat but it is a US licensed company that complies with KYC and money laundering regulation.

The law says otherwise : a person is an exchanger and a money transmitter if the person accepts such de-centralized convertible virtual currency from one person and transmits it to another person as part of the acceptance and transfer of currency, funds, or other value that substitutes for currency.

So, Poloniex is running an illegal business according to FINCEN.

Poloniex is registered with FINCEN, if you think they are running an illegal business you should ask them why they gave them an MSB license.

The key difference is that they are a money services business but are not considered a money transmitter as they never handle fiat.

I keep saying that by registering with FINCEN, it does NOT mean that a company is a MSB.

FINCEN website:

"Information contained on this site has been provided by the MSB registrant. FinCEN does not verify information submitted by the MSB. Information provided on this site reflects only what was provided directly to FinCEN."

You can register on FINCEN website yourself... right now with any name you want. make a try.

So, being registered with FINCEN means nothing. First a company MUST be a MSB and then to submit on Fincen website.

A US company must be registered as MSB in all the states if they want to deal/trade/do business in all of them. See Coinbase, Gemini, Itbit. Look to their websites. You will notice something like :

https://www.coinbase.com/legal/licenses

https://gemini.com/about/

See? BIG difference between Kraken, Poloniex and similar others and these ones

Again, being registered on FINCEN page without being MSB = zero

mayax

legendary

Activity: 1470

Merit: 1004

Quote from: owlcatz on July 30, 2017, 03:03:58 PM

Quote from: JohnBitCo on July 30, 2017, 12:55:57 PM

Quote from: fred dave on July 30, 2017, 12:41:45 PM

The domain is seized bu US authorities, it seems that it will be the bigger lesson for the unlicensed exchangers worldwide and especially Poloniex

Is poloniex unlicensed ? while its containment any exchanges I'll see him about the same thing with the exchanges that you have to look out for is manipulation of the withdrawal and deposit limits. Need to be careful while using exchanges.

YES, poloniex is unlicensed and it's based in USA;same as Kraken.

Poloniex doesn't have the New York bitlicense or any money transmitting license which is why it operates without fiat but it is a US licensed company that complies with KYC and money laundering regulation.

Exactly - Thankfully, they are a registered MSB in my state, as I looked it up in the state's database (not Fincen), so I'm not worried. Not only that, but the owner is well known and is public , you can quickly figure out who he is with google.

Edit - Mayax, it may be "Illegal" in some areas or uses by particular users just like any exchange, but not for me at least. Thanks.

please show me where(what state) they are registered as MSB. .

mamaya

full member

Activity: 168

Merit: 100

Quote from: mayax on July 30, 2017, 03:01:01 PM

Quote from: JohnBitCo on July 30, 2017, 12:55:57 PM

Quote from: fred dave on July 30, 2017, 12:41:45 PM

The domain is seized bu US authorities, it seems that it will be the bigger lesson for the unlicensed exchangers worldwide and especially Poloniex

Is poloniex unlicensed ? while its containment any exchanges I'll see him about the same thing with the exchanges that you have to look out for is manipulation of the withdrawal and deposit limits. Need to be careful while using exchanges.

YES, poloniex is unlicensed and it's based in USA;same as Kraken.

Poloniex doesn't have the New York bitlicense or any money transmitting license which is why it operates without fiat but it is a US licensed company that complies with KYC and money laundering regulation.

The law says otherwise : a person is an exchanger and a money transmitter if the person accepts such de-centralized convertible virtual currency from one person and transmits it to another person as part of the acceptance and transfer of currency, funds, or other value that substitutes for currency.

So, Poloniex is running an illegal business according to FINCEN.

Poloniex is registered with FINCEN, if you think they are running an illegal business you should ask them why they gave them an MSB license.

The key difference is that they are a money services business but are not considered a money transmitter as they never handle fiat.

owlcatz

legendary

Activity: 3570

Merit: 1959

Quote from: JohnBitCo on July 30, 2017, 12:55:57 PM

Quote from: fred dave on July 30, 2017, 12:41:45 PM

The domain is seized bu US authorities, it seems that it will be the bigger lesson for the unlicensed exchangers worldwide and especially Poloniex

Is poloniex unlicensed ? while its containment any exchanges I'll see him about the same thing with the exchanges that you have to look out for is manipulation of the withdrawal and deposit limits. Need to be careful while using exchanges.

YES, poloniex is unlicensed and it's based in USA;same as Kraken.

Poloniex doesn't have the New York bitlicense or any money transmitting license which is why it operates without fiat but it is a US licensed company that complies with KYC and money laundering regulation.

Exactly - Thankfully, they are a registered MSB in my state, as I looked it up in the state's database (not Fincen), so I'm not worried. Not only that, but the owner is well known and is public , you can quickly figure out who he is with google.

Edit - Mayax, it may be "Illegal" in some areas or uses by particular users just like any exchange, but not for me at least. Thanks.

Baofeng

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Activity: 2576

Merit: 1655

Quote from: Prem.Soorajpaul on July 30, 2017, 01:09:46 PM

Quote from: aesma on July 30, 2017, 01:00:52 PM

And those who now correctly blame btce for assisting criminals: the GOX theft is NOT even on the arrest warrent, it is wholly about this: A Bulgarian company, with Russian executive, living in Greece, bank accounts in Mongolia, is blamed for not being licensed in the USA!!!!!!!!!!

They could just as well arrest a Swiss Railway executive because they do not request ID from US customers when riding a train...

Or Saudi Arabia could request kidnapping a British bar owner on a vacation in Greece, because he served alcohol to Saudi citizens... Angry

it is not forbidden to serve Saudi citizens with alcohol

The idea is that a "financial" company must know the laws from the countries where they make their business.
you cannot claim in your defence that you don't know the law.

example : BTC-e accepted US citizens as clients. they accepted bank wires and they send bank wire to them. that means they made business within US according to FINCEN and they needed to be registered as MSB.

Can you imagine the reverse happening ? An US exchange, serving Russian customers without a Russian license, being seized by Russian authorities ?

It is surprising to see so many people justifying the actions by the American authorities. What the FBI has done is clearly over the mark, and they were wrong in seizing and taking down the BTC-e trading platform.

I'm not saying that US is correct, but I think they are building this case for some time now and probably have evidences that BTC-e have indeed violated by serving US customers which would then require a more tighter regulations. And if BTC-e would go online again, I think they will go underground or follow the strict KYC/AML law.

mayax

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Activity: 1470

Merit: 1004

Quote from: JohnBitCo on July 30, 2017, 12:55:57 PM

Quote from: fred dave on July 30, 2017, 12:41:45 PM

The domain is seized bu US authorities, it seems that it will be the bigger lesson for the unlicensed exchangers worldwide and especially Poloniex

Is poloniex unlicensed ? while its containment any exchanges I'll see him about the same thing with the exchanges that you have to look out for is manipulation of the withdrawal and deposit limits. Need to be careful while using exchanges.

YES, poloniex is unlicensed and it's based in USA;same as Kraken.

Poloniex doesn't have the New York bitlicense or any money transmitting license which is why it operates without fiat but it is a US licensed company that complies with KYC and money laundering regulation.

The law says otherwise : a person is an exchanger and a money transmitter if the person accepts such de-centralized convertible virtual currency from one person and transmits it to another person as part of the acceptance and transfer of currency, funds, or other value that substitutes for currency.

So, Poloniex is running an illegal business according to FINCEN.

mamaya

full member

Activity: 168

Merit: 100

Quote from: JohnBitCo on July 30, 2017, 12:55:57 PM

Quote from: fred dave on July 30, 2017, 12:41:45 PM

The domain is seized bu US authorities, it seems that it will be the bigger lesson for the unlicensed exchangers worldwide and especially Poloniex

Is poloniex unlicensed ? while its containment any exchanges I'll see him about the same thing with the exchanges that you have to look out for is manipulation of the withdrawal and deposit limits. Need to be careful while using exchanges.

YES, poloniex is unlicensed and it's based in USA;same as Kraken.

Poloniex doesn't have the New York bitlicense or any money transmitting license which is why it operates without fiat but it is a US licensed company that complies with KYC and money laundering regulation.

mayax

legendary

Activity: 1470

Merit: 1004

Quote from: JohnBitCo on July 30, 2017, 12:55:57 PM

Quote from: fred dave on July 30, 2017, 12:41:45 PM

The domain is seized bu US authorities, it seems that it will be the bigger lesson for the unlicensed exchangers worldwide and especially Poloniex

Is poloniex unlicensed ? while its containment any exchanges I'll see him about the same thing with the exchanges that you have to look out for is manipulation of the withdrawal and deposit limits. Need to be careful while using exchanges.

YES, poloniex is unlicensed and it's based in USA;same as Kraken.

Kevondo

sr. member

Activity: 742

Merit: 251

Quote from: Pe4kin on July 29, 2017, 11:15:55 AM

Fuck the American government!
Let in Texas in command - if there's a lot of sheep !

I'm on this exchange lost 5.4 rubles.
Give freedom and democracy.

The freedom of circulation of funds!

Let the sheep from Texas taxes they pay!!!

Don't use bad words for any government. Because it is really bad to hear abuse here if someone report you that you are doing abuse then it can harm your account so i will be thankful to you that next time you will not use a bad words against someone because it is already looking very bad in front of people it is not a good thing to do. So try to be careful next time.

btc_angela

hero member

Activity: 2660

Merit: 551

Quote from: findingthemoon on July 30, 2017, 01:37:13 AM

Quote from: hitlab on July 30, 2017, 01:30:33 AM

If BTCe have secured their coins properly it should be hard for the FEDs to get their hands on the coins.

And it would also make it near impossible for users to get their coins back, if the site is shut down there is no reason for them to honor their debts to people who used their platform.

In my opinion the FEDs are more likely to pay back users money than the owner is at this point.

No. The FED's wont pay back users for the money lost.

Quote from: virtualdn on July 30, 2017, 12:52:47 AM

I really feel sorry for everyone losing money here but please take 2 things into account:

1. it was kinda obvious that website was an unregulated exchange; poor contact details were a first sign
2. I would never keep more than $100 in an exchange regulated or not, I would simply exchange and bye bye

Correct. It doesn't make sense for people to just let their funds sit like $2500-$10000 in an exchanges because we all know that you don't have total control over it. Everyone should have learn their lesson from Mt. Gox incident. Just too sad to hear people losing all their investment.

karan1498

full member

Activity: 163

Merit: 100

Quote from: aesma on July 30, 2017, 01:00:52 PM

Can you imagine the reverse happening ? An US exchange, serving Russian customers without a Russian license, being seized by Russian authorities ?

lol can only imagine

Prem.Soorajpaul

full member

Activity: 199

Merit: 100

0xB911101025014BfCaA3B17BC7683C0817489bB28

Quote from: aesma on July 30, 2017, 01:00:52 PM

And those who now correctly blame btce for assisting criminals: the GOX theft is NOT even on the arrest warrent, it is wholly about this: A Bulgarian company, with Russian executive, living in Greece, bank accounts in Mongolia, is blamed for not being licensed in the USA!!!!!!!!!!

They could just as well arrest a Swiss Railway executive because they do not request ID from US customers when riding a train...

Or Saudi Arabia could request kidnapping a British bar owner on a vacation in Greece, because he served alcohol to Saudi citizens... Angry

it is not forbidden to serve Saudi citizens with alcohol

The idea is that a "financial" company must know the laws from the countries where they make their business.
you cannot claim in your defence that you don't know the law.

example : BTC-e accepted US citizens as clients. they accepted bank wires and they send bank wire to them. that means they made business within US according to FINCEN and they needed to be registered as MSB.

Can you imagine the reverse happening ? An US exchange, serving Russian customers without a Russian license, being seized by Russian authorities ?

It is surprising to see so many people justifying the actions by the American authorities. What the FBI has done is clearly over the mark, and they were wrong in seizing and taking down the BTC-e trading platform.

aesma

hero member

Activity: 2604

Merit: 961

fly or die

Quote from: hitlab on July 30, 2017, 01:30:33 AM

And those who now correctly blame btce for assisting criminals: the GOX theft is NOT even on the arrest warrent, it is wholly about this: A Bulgarian company, with Russian executive, living in Greece, bank accounts in Mongolia, is blamed for not being licensed in the USA!!!!!!!!!!

They could just as well arrest a Swiss Railway executive because they do not request ID from US customers when riding a train...

Or Saudi Arabia could request kidnapping a British bar owner on a vacation in Greece, because he served alcohol to Saudi citizens... Angry

it is not forbidden to serve Saudi citizens with alcohol

The idea is that a "financial" company must know the laws from the countries where they make their business.
you cannot claim in your defence that you don't know the law.

example : BTC-e accepted US citizens as clients. they accepted bank wires and they send bank wire to them. that means they made business within US according to FINCEN and they needed to be registered as MSB.

Can you imagine the reverse happening ? An US exchange, serving Russian customers without a Russian license, being seized by Russian authorities ?

btcrich

sr. member

Activity: 302

Merit: 250

If BTCe have secured their coins properly it should be hard for the FEDs to get their hands on the coins.

I really do not think he will be a tough guy with the Feds simply because he will be behind bars for a long time and i do not think he will act like that in any way shape or form,the real reason for the arrest might be because they are not collecting any user information and may be so is the reason he was booked under money laundering.

JohnBitCo

sr. member

Activity: 2030

Merit: 356

Quote from: fred dave on July 30, 2017, 12:41:45 PM

The domain is seized bu US authorities, it seems that it will be the bigger lesson for the unlicensed exchangers worldwide and especially Poloniex

Is poloniex unlicensed ? while its containment any exchanges I'll see him about the same thing with the exchanges that you have to look out for is manipulation of the withdrawal and deposit limits. Need to be careful while using exchanges.

fred dave

member

Activity: 74

Merit: 10

The domain is seized bu US authorities, it seems that it will be the bigger lesson for the unlicensed exchangers worldwide and especially Poloniex

mrayazgul

hero member

Activity: 560

Merit: 500

Quote from: owlcatz on July 29, 2017, 07:24:26 PM

Quote from: EdwardQuintero76 on July 29, 2017, 05:55:26 PM

What i should do Huh

Forget it ... Move on. This petition won't do jack shit. You lost all your money. I'm sorry, but seriously, it's not coming back, anyone with half a brain knows that right now, it's just wishful thinking... Why would anyone associated with this massive criminal enterprise risk starting it back up to "pay you innocent people" Huh

Right.. Nobody. That's what you get for using a shady ass bullshit exchange, sorry man.... Good luck, hope you can rebuild from scratch and recover but don't get your hopes up, this site is 100% done IMO... Sad

: (

There's always going to be somebody playing some game and you shouldn't get too upset about it just keep in mind that some of the exchanges have a very high risk on disappearing at any time. Key learning is that do not keep all your bitcoin in single exchange, rather split them between multiple exchange to avoid loss in case any exchange scam.

leopard2

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